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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Feb 13, 2013 10:53:30 GMT -8
I am frustrated and pissed at the same time. NO I did not get arrested or get my butt kicked! LOL Seriously guys. i took it on my own to buy 10 TCS Keep Alive KA1 and KA2 Capacitors and 4 TCS Keep Alive KAT24 decoders. Well I had them reviewed and running on my layout. I was truly excited and ready to upgrade my whole engine roster with these KA capacitors and decoders. I wanted the Capacitors for the Sound locomotives and the regular KAT24 Decoder/capacitor for my non sound and overland models. Well as time went by I purchased more capacitors and started installing them. Then I noticed some changes on ALL of the Sound engines that had Soundtraxx Tsunami Decoders installed. NON of the KA capacitors were doing their job. They ALL had failed in time. So I said, Maybe it is me, maybe I am retarded, but that would only explain one MAYBE two bad installs NOT 6 engines!! I am now talking about JUST the capacitors that are meant to be added to current decoders to "KEEP THEM ALIVE" over dirty track, bad connections and bad turnouts. Well they did not last and the last batch of 4 or 5 will not even work out of the box. Did I buy a batch of BAD capacitors (Can't have that much bad luck!) Well am I just retarded (Well yes but not with DCC installs I can follow directions) Or lastly is the TCS KA capacitors faulty (Very Likely)
What is next? Well the blame game will surely follow. TCS will blame me and my install AND they will also blame Soundtraxx because they will say their capacitors are warrantied or meant for their own TCS decoders and the Tsunamis must be faulty. Then in turn Soundtraxx will surely and RIGTHFULLY say it is TCS and their decoders are not meant to have capacitors added to them because they have their own installed AND by adding them it voided their warranty. LASTLY TCS could place blame on the Digitrax system that I am using and that the system caused a power surge or something TECHI sounding like that, caused the destruction of all the capacitors as well as the one that was not yet installed at the time. LOL (Yeah right)
YO (Yeah I said YO) , I am really pissed and disappointed because I went out on the limb promoting them on my own accord and now I had to make a video to correct myself and update the status of these. The video is not nice and sugar coated like a corny MR magazine so if you are expecting to see that , YOU JUST DO NOT KNOW ME.
Just to be clear, MAYBE I am the retarded one at fault. Maybe I did all 6 wrong and will do the next 4 wrong as well. So although that is a possibility I doubt it. I could go on and on about these because I am disappointed as heck! I am mad, I have invested more than $400 total on their Keep alive decoders ($42 a piece) and Capacitors ($26 a piece) and it turned out to be a bad investment that I need to remove from all 6 sound locomotives. Plus I promoted the hell out of the capacitors to only find out I WAS WRONG. I admit it, I was wrong dawg.
Have a great day fellas! Look out for the video later today or tomorrow.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 13, 2013 11:36:38 GMT -8
Maybe if you and TCS had an exchange of emails this might be resolved. I have never felt capacitor equipped sound units lived up to expectations in regards to the keep alive idea.  |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Feb 13, 2013 11:40:52 GMT -8
We did have an email exchange already NO RESOLUTION was made. There was no definitive answer to the issue. I took a picture of the newer install and asked if it was done correctly and he confirmed that much.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 13, 2013 12:17:30 GMT -8
What voltage are you running on DCC?
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Feb 13, 2013 12:25:10 GMT -8
Whatever Digitrax runs at, I think 16-18V is standard
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Post by scl1234 on Feb 13, 2013 12:26:46 GMT -8
Pardon my line of thinking and don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like buying capacitors to get around dirty or bad trackwork is a band-aid solution to your problem. Just my humble opinion...
Depending on how far you want to go with clean, true track, your entire layout may need to be moved to a cleaner location or downsized to some degree so that it can be cleaned easier or less often.
FWIW, I thought people only used capacitors on steam or other short wheelbase locos that would stall when travelling over unpowered frogs.
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Post by Mark R. on Feb 13, 2013 13:11:53 GMT -8
The KA's are designed for a MAXIMUM track voltage of 16 volts. If your track voltage is between 16 and 18 volts, it may be that you are continually stressing their limits until they ultimately fail. I'd be checking your track voltage, and if it is indeed running that high, I'd seriously consider lowering it. I run mine right around 14.2 volts and have yet to have any of the KA modules I've installed fail.
Mark.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Feb 13, 2013 14:42:24 GMT -8
OK let me clarify a couple of things. My track work is certainly not bad. I have a couple of bad spots that will be repaired but I got the Keep Alive as an extra measure. I liked them. As I said before the KAT24 decoder/capacitors are fine. It is the wiring of the KA1/2 into the Tsunami Decoders that failed. I did do a meter testing to my Tsunami decoders and they are at 14.7v or 14.8v. I was actually ASSUMING my Digitrax was at 16-18v but I may be wrong. As for the track voltage I do know that it has three settings. It has O scale, HO scale and N scale. I have it on HO scale of course.
I am NOT a newbie to electronics, model railroading, weathering, track laying, and MOST IMPORTANTLY troubleshooting. I have destroyed more models LEARNING how to do that thru the years than some people own.
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Post by mlehman on Feb 13, 2013 14:58:18 GMT -8
Al,
I asked because this topic just happened to come up in a similar situation on another list. I'm no electrical guru, either, but this little bit happened to catch my eye earlier and it may apply here.
Since many Tsunami installs are done with 16V Caps to get the largest value cap possible into the smallest space and since virtually all caps used for this purpose are (+ -) 20% of rated voltage...there is a real risk of blowing up, literally, any 16V cap on the low end of its rating. Twenty percent of a 16V cap is 3.2 volts which would safely put a "low end cap" at around 13 volts and you would be feeding it 14.7...Hmmmm
It sure sounds like you're getting a lot of failures, though, so maybe it's an entirely different issue. However, you know what they say about assuming things, so it might eliminate one possibility to verify what voltage you have on-track and compare that to the specs of the TCS caps. If they are rated as 16 volt caps, then a relatively high track voltage could be a contributing cause.
EDIT: Just checked the TCS site and it indicates that these caps have a max voltage of 16 volts. So it's possible that it could be an issue here.
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Post by atsfan on Feb 13, 2013 15:56:55 GMT -8
I think we need battery powered not capacitor powered items to solve this problem.
Looking forward to the video.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Feb 13, 2013 17:32:33 GMT -8
OK so everything has checked out to be correct and ON POINT on my side. I did the Voltage check of the track on my layout which is set to HO scale on the Digitrax system. It is 14.05v and in N scale it went down to 11v so it is NOT my system overloading it.
Listen, In the video I show the SAME EXACT test runs that I did in the last two TCS Keep Alive videos I made. It shows how the engines now have NO extra power to them and they will immediately stop once lifted from the track. I will edit the video and post it by tomorrow.
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Post by Mark R. on Feb 13, 2013 19:25:34 GMT -8
Just so we're all on the same page - which type of Tsunami decoders are you using and where did you make your KA-2 connections ?
Mark.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Feb 13, 2013 19:49:05 GMT -8
OK so to clarify that Mark I have TWO types of Tsunami decoders and both have the same locations to put the blue and black wire. I have the AT1000 in the two GP38-2 models (One Atlas and one is Athearn) and I have another AT1000 that I JUST GOT at the Amherst Train show for a SD70/90MAC. In the Two SD70M phase II flared radiators that I custom kit bashed they have the KTU1000 (I think) It is the same type of decoder at the AT1000's but the capacitors are located on the actual board underneath it rather than two wires coming out of the middle of it. And LAST I have what i believe it the KTU1000 in the Athearn Genesis SD70ACe MKT model. I used a guide (in my last video review) from an online club members at this link below: www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Feb 13, 2013 20:22:24 GMT -8
I am actually taking a short break to do ONE MORE thing tomorrow afternoon to be sure that it is the capacitors and not any other thing. I just want to be sure and I thought of doing ONE LAST thing and that is to take the one KA2 capacitor that is is in the package and install it into one of the GP38-2 and see if it then works like the other one USED to. I will then likely add a couple new clips to the video I made today.
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Post by Mark R. on Feb 13, 2013 21:33:13 GMT -8
If wired according to those instructions, there shouldn't be any problem (?) I'm interested to hear of any further developments because I've installed a number of them at customer's requests and I'd hate to hear of them going bad.
Mark.
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Post by calzephyr on Feb 14, 2013 7:28:17 GMT -8
I am actually taking a short break to do ONE MORE thing tomorrow afternoon to be sure that it is the capacitors and not any other thing. I just want to be sure and I thought of doing ONE LAST thing and that is to take the one KA2 capacitor that is is in the package and install it into one of the GP38-2 and see if it then works like the other one USED to. I will then likely add a couple new clips to the video I made today. Thanks for the post. I was thinking the keep alive would be a great product and was curious how well it worked. Keep us posting on any new results. There may be an answer to this problem that has not been solved yet. Larry |
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Post by Mark R. on Feb 14, 2013 8:02:10 GMT -8
As far as how they work - I've installed a number of them for customers on Tsunami decoders and they work great ! With lights and sound on, I can lift the engine from the rails, walk out of the train room, into the shop, sit it on the bench and watch it for a few more seconds before it finally shuts down !
I've alerted my customers about this thread and to keep note on the performance of their installations over time to see if there's any degradation in the stay alive performance.
Mark.
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Post by diburning on Feb 14, 2013 12:17:05 GMT -8
Hey Al, let me know if you find out more! My name is Eric (you've met me, you came down to the model railroad club I belong to, and you've met me at Springfield; I'm the guy with the NS jacket). Feel free to come visit the club again. I can sit down with you and take a look at the installation if you'd like.
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