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Post by cpr4200 on Feb 7, 2024 21:48:41 GMT -8
The lines on the CP car seem to come and go depending on how the light is hitting the car. Maybe they'll disappear under a flat finish? I have a couple of Kaslo 3D Kits that exhibit similar lines but I haven't started building them. I'll be up for several of those CP newsprint cars when they come out, so I hope the line issue is solved. Adam mentions sanding with 800 grit, so maybe that's SOP with this medium?
~ Walt
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Feb 7, 2024 22:31:41 GMT -8
The lines on the CP car seem to come and go depending on how the light is hitting the car. Maybe they'll disappear under a flat finish? I have a couple of Kaslo 3D Kits that exhibit similar lines but I haven't started building them. I'll be up for several of those CP newsprint cars when they come out, so I hope the line issue is solved. Adam mentions sanding with 800 grit, so maybe that's SOP with this medium? ~ Walt Yeah, sanding will greatly improve the appearance. With resin printing, the worst layer lines are the horizontal steps on angled surfaces. I've seen a few different types of vertical streaks. Sometimes you get a dead pixel that leaves a scratch-looking effect where the resin wasn't exposed. That evenly-spaced effect on the video could be caused by bed placement. I'd be tempted to blame the lenses underneath the LCD screen for that issue; the light may not have been focused completely upward, leading to overexposure on adjacent pixels. There's also a much finer texture that can occur parallel to the Z-axis that are caused by the feathered edges of the individual pixels of the LCD screen. I think printing with a new FEP can also reduce the prevalence of the streaks. I've seen this on my Trough Train, and an 800 grit sanding sponge to took care of it. A few light passes will knock it down. I followed up with 1200 and finer grits since the TT required a very smooth surface for Alclad metalizer paint, but 800 should be sufficient for normal model paint. Sometimes if I'm a bit thick with an acrylic paint, I can bury the lines on purpose, but they will probably show through with lacquers like Tru-Color unless you sand. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Feb 7, 2024 22:37:21 GMT -8
I watched the video and at 1:07:43 the Canadian Pacific car at the bottom has some horrible print lines in it. This is my concern about 3d printing (including my own). My old Elegoo printer got to the point where it couldn't print what I wanted/expected so I have a new one waiting to get set up in hopes that it will be better. I would not be happy to get a product with lines like that and assume most of their products do not have those lines. That said, a few weeks ago I also saw some new Kaslo Shops 3d printed cars that had been completed with those same lines. The cars are beautiful except for how visible the lines are. I have seen some amazing 3d printed products and hope 3D Central is successful, but they have to make sure what is leaving the shop is at higher standard than that. Mike Exactly why I'm still on the sidelines and haven't placed an order yet. Yes, they might be able to replace a defective shell but when I'm located outside the US that gets a bit problematic. |
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Post by simulatortrain on Feb 8, 2024 6:11:18 GMT -8
It depends. This PLE car didn't need any sanding outside of filling some support marks on one end, which were due to it being a preproduction version supported a bit differently than the final kits. I checked the production kit I have and there's nothing that'll need any work.
That BAR car I posted had a few lines I needed to clean up, but I was done in under 20 minutes. Primer goes a long way towards highlighting any work required. To an extent it's SOP, however in my opinion I think it's well worth it to get models that aren't otherwise available, and it's much quicker than filling in air bubbles on a resin casting. YMMV.
There's a real tradeoff between orienting prints such that you get the absolute best surface finish vs. simplifying assembly. Usually going for ultimate finish requires separating models into more pieces. My opinion is that any gains to the surface finish are not sufficient enough to warrant making something more akin to a flat kit. Cleanup is minimal if it's required, and takes less time than waiting for glue to dry to get a flat kit to the same level of assembly.
I did want to add, having examined that CP car in person, it's the gloss finish. The surface of the car is flat (speaking of 3D not paint.) As Mr. Trainiac said, going a bit heavy with acrylics can be your friend with some printed models. Regularly spaced lines like that are a function of the multiple lenses underneath the LCD screen, but they don't cause any perceptible variation in terms of the physical surface. Dead pixels or dirty screen/FEP are the real problem children.
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Post by Christian on Feb 8, 2024 10:41:34 GMT -8
Badger makes a version of Stynylrez specifically for 3D models. I reported this a year and a half ago, but have not followed up on that post. Me bad. Following is an edited repeat of that post. Stynylrez is the darling of military and figure modelers but I seem one of the few that uses it on trains. Unlike most acrylic resin primers Stynylrez is sandable.
From left to right is “Translucent Surface Smoother,” white, gray, and black primer. At first look the primers look to be the same as Stynylrez. Badger says that they are different in that they adhere to 3D prints more aggressively. Whereas regular Stynylrez has brushing instructions these materials only have airbrush instructions. Namely, don't thin, #5 tip, 20 to 30 psi. Three light coats of the surface smoother which is allowed to cure 6 or more hours. Followed by one covering coat of the color primers which is allowed to cure 90 minutes before applying top colors. Of course I’ll report back when I’ve actually used the 3D priming system.  |
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Post by mr_smith on Feb 8, 2024 12:35:08 GMT -8
Adam, "examined that CP car in person, it's the gloss finish. The surface of the car is flat (speaking of 3D not paint)." It looks like you are you saying the lines reflected in paint are not from the underlying print, but from the gloss paint? I have looked at the images of the your flat cars 3D Central is offering and, in a cursory look, haven't seen the lines. Mike
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cp9002
Junior Member
Posts: 85 
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Post by cp9002 on Feb 8, 2024 13:43:33 GMT -8
I talked to them at the Springfield show and brought up the print lines on some of the cars. They were printed by Alec while Matt was getting started. And according to Alec, Matt is much better at printing than he is. That’s why some of the samples have print lines while other samples and all of the production does not have any print lines. Alec said he’s printing for rapid prototyping, not production like Matt. Matt stated he is planning on reprinting the cars that Alec Printed, but his machines have been full with printing for production
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Post by canrailfan on Feb 8, 2024 14:50:15 GMT -8
Matt said quite clearly the Canadian Pacific car was a very early print and they have since learned how to eliminate the print lines. He also said he would never sell a car like that.
They obviously are working hard to improve the 3d printing capabilities. I'm sure these samples will remain in the "blue tub of shame" as Andy called it.
Most of the items I saw on the table at the 3D Central booth at Springfield were impressive for the smooth surfaces and well-defined edges.
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Post by simulatortrain on Feb 8, 2024 15:16:39 GMT -8
I'm saying that that kind of issue is the print, but it's a visual defect and not a "feelable" defect. I've worked with this on certain prints I did for myself but decided were good enough to rehab and use. Primer was never enough to get rid of it because it wasn't a thick enough coat to cover. By the time it was painted, decaled, and hit with flat clear, I always got that effect to go away. But, when I sprayed gloss as the step before clear, I'd always see them again, even if the paint itself didn't show them before any clear.
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Post by mr_smith on Feb 8, 2024 15:17:35 GMT -8
Thanks David, I stand corrected. I skimmed the video without sound and didn't listen because of lack of time. Gonna advise they s-can those prints so they never again see the light of day. Unfortunately, those Kaslo Shops prints somehow did make it out. I will also edit my previous reply.
Mike
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Post by cp6027 on Feb 9, 2024 12:00:11 GMT -8
The lines on the CP car seem to come and go depending on how the light is hitting the car. Maybe they'll disappear under a flat finish? I have a couple of Kaslo 3D Kits that exhibit similar lines but I haven't started building them. I'll be up for several of those CP newsprint cars when they come out, so I hope the line issue is solved. Adam mentions sanding with 800 grit, so maybe that's SOP with this medium? ~ Walt I am also interested in the CP H-S newsprint boxcar kit. Hopefully they have determined a better print method and will release it. I ordered some of the newer 3D-printed BC Rail boxcar kits through the Kaslo website a week or so ago. Nothing has shipped yet but I look forward to seeing them firsthand. |
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Post by cpr4200 on Mar 30, 2024 19:08:23 GMT -8
Are decals in the works for the kits offered by 3DC? Specifically the WM hoppers and BAR double plug boxcar. ~ Walt
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Post by lyndenbranch on Mar 31, 2024 0:35:14 GMT -8
On the video I heard that Matt said this was an early days printing project, and that each generation of printing improves a little more--he said "there's no way that would leave the shop today." I just purchased a BCOL caboose kit, and it truly is fantastic and I could see no evidence of printing lines anywhere on it. The BCOL caboose was a Kaslo project; I don't know if 3D central prints the Kaslo stuff sold through 3D central or if Kaslo is printing their own files or not.
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Post by tom on Mar 31, 2024 4:49:26 GMT -8
I received my Bridge Line Design (Printed by 3D Central) PRR X54 boxcar two days ago. The body shell, underframe and the printed detail parts look very good and I did not see any noticeable lines or defects. Car looks very accurate and matches drawings of the car that were recently in RMC.
One thing I noticed is that the resin material is very hard and dense and drilling holes and tapping threads is much harder than working with styrene. Just takes more time.
I also do not like that some other details that come as etched metal are basically flat. The stirrups, ladders and grabirons are all flat 2D pieces. On previous printed flatcars I just used 0.0125" diameter wire instead of the etched metal grabs so no problem. However the flat, thin ladders do not look right to me plus the first ladder than I removed from the fret curled up some. I was able to uncurl it some but not entirely. Not sure if it will stay attached since the ladders have to be positioned ang glued on a couple of small tabs on the car side without any supports, tabs, or guides. The stirrups are also just thin metal without any real depth. These do have very small tabs that hold them in place but they seem to me to be very fragile as I broke off two very quickly. Extras are included though.
Just my thoughts
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Post by simulatortrain on Mar 31, 2024 4:51:20 GMT -8
Are decals in the works for the kits offered by 3DC? Specifically the WM hoppers and BAR double plug boxcar. ~ Walt Yes! The WM hopper artwork has been complete for several years through the mid 60s, but right now it's being updated with 70s reweigh dates and COTS before WMRHS puts in a big order. Jeff Adams does very accurate and thorough artwork and I always ask him to do decals for WM projects. The BAR cars are available in a couple schemes from Highball Graphics. I don't think the original brown cars are out yet, but Matt had indicated they're in the works-- that's the scheme I want to model on the kit I got. We are all always sure to have a solution for decals in progress before releasing a kit. I know I personally need to improve at getting that moving earlier in the process, as it seems decals often have longer lead times than anything else in the process even without factoring in the time to draw artwork. |
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Post by cera2254 on Mar 31, 2024 9:54:28 GMT -8
Are the decals for the P&LE flats out yet?
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Post by simulatortrain on Mar 31, 2024 15:27:13 GMT -8
Are the decals for the P&LE flats out yet? They're on order from the printer, shouldn't be too long of a wait now. |
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Post by cera2254 on Mar 31, 2024 16:45:15 GMT -8
Awesome! Can’t wait!
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