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Post by curtmc on Oct 27, 2013 8:33:59 GMT -8
You speak as if there were no Amtrak there would be no passenger rail service. That is not true. There are better alternatives in regional or state run services that could be better operated, and not be such a burden to all US taxpayers (including those in states that do not even have passenger rail service).
Also, all of the US freight railroads upon which Amtrak operates suffer due to the increased maintenance, increased track inspection requirements, and severe freight schedule disruption that Amtrak causes - usually without anywhere near adequate compensation to those businesses for the extra costs incurred. So not only is the US taxpayer getting burdened by Amtrak, many/most railroad shareholders are getting doubly fleeced.
Back to subject...
I think everybody starts with a particular railroad and era that they want to model due to observations earlier in life, or in some less frequent instances something they have read about and/or seen video/movie/photographic footage of. Then most stray to include other railroads (and perhaps eras) because of something new that sparks their interest.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 27, 2013 9:34:44 GMT -8
You speak as if there were no Amtrak there would be no passenger rail service. That is not true. There are better alternatives in regional or state run services that could be better operated, and not be such a burden to all US taxpayers (including those in states that do not even have passenger rail service). Also, all of the US freight railroads upon which Amtrak operates suffer due to the increased maintenance, increased track inspection requirements, and severe freight schedule disruption that Amtrak causes - usually without anywhere near adequate compensation to those businesses for the extra costs incurred. So not only is the US taxpayer getting burdened by Amtrak, many/most railroad shareholders are getting doubly fleeced. You work for the Government don't you? Your anti Amtrak hysteria is giving me a good laugh though so thanks for the entertainment.
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Post by princessofthecape on Oct 27, 2013 9:46:32 GMT -8
You speak as if there were no Amtrak there would be no passenger rail service. That is not true. There are better alternatives in regional or state run services that could be better operated, and not be such a burden to all US taxpayers (including those in states that do not even have passenger rail service). Without some kind of government subsidy, there would be no passenger rail service period -- short-haul; long haul, it would all of it go away. All passenger rail service must be subsidized -- they lose money. They've been losing money for decades. Hell, many of them lost money even in the heyday of railroading, before jets by in large supplanted the train as the primary long-distance transport mode. Railroads like the Santa Fe kept their passenger services at the end only because they were solid PR tools -- they were hemorrhaging cash by the time Amtrak debuted. And the alternative is... what, precisely? Also, it's more than fair that those railroads put up with that 'fleecing' considering that much of their own track improvements are subsidized. Does a railroad need to rebuild a bridge? Add capacity? Construct a new line to an off-site business? They almost always turn to the government with their hands out. And, more often than not, they receive grants to help with those projects. It's a 'I'll scratch you're back, you scratch mine' system, and, unquestionably, the railroads come out on the winning side of it. Now, that isn't to say that Amtrak isn't a big time money loser, because it is. It 100% loses money. Even the Northeast Corridor, which is often referred to as 'the only profitable passenger railroad in the country' is a perennial black hole of cash (Trains fully debunked that myth only 2 months ago). But there is no alternative, unless you want our transport choices to be whittled down to airlines (which receive subsidies on an ASTOUNDING scale), or buses (again, subsidized in the form of unbelievably expensive road systems). About the only system of transport that isn't heavily subsidized, in fact, is ocean transport, and you could argue even that is when massive terminal construction projects are often mostly funded via -- you guessed it -- government grants. I'm no centrist. I swing decidedly to the right on most stuff. But I'm also a realist. And one of the things I'm realistic about is that big-time passenger rail either must be helped along, or it goes away -- often forever. And, as a traveler who loathes flying (particularly in the post-9/11 world), I am happy as a clam to pay a little more to keep Amtrak afloat.
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Post by Brakie on Oct 27, 2013 14:14:32 GMT -8
All passenger rail service must be subsidized -- they lose money. They've been losing money for decades. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to the big lie of '71 Amtrak would turn a profit in 10 years and will become self sufficient and as we know it still needs Government funding 42 years later..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 15:01:05 GMT -8
I primarily model 1978-2007 Chessie and CSX (long time favorite railroads since watching Chessie trains as a kid) although I also model run through trains of most other railroads. I have now revised my future modeling plans to not including any railroad operation that has been a burden to the US taxpayer (i.e. Amtrash and yes, poor customer service of that operation on my past personal trips may well have a lot to do with that). The city/segment I plan to model (in part) has a passenger depot but has likely had close to 250,000 freight trains since the last regular service passenger train stopped there over 8 years ago. Darn it Curt, you've been on a crusade against Amtrak for years back to the Atlas forum. I agree that Amtrak has is and will continue to be a giant sinkhole of money out of the Federal treasury. I will assume you will not have any Conrail equipment either? Conrail was a money losing operation when it began in 1976. It wasn't until the 1980's that Conrail turned it around and became profitable. If you look hard enough I'm sure you'll find that the Rock Island and Milwaukee Road cost the taxpayers some dough through their bankruptcy's. What about the short lines that today that manage to keep rail service in many areas? Most of those operations run over track owned by State government. I think if you look at some projects by even the big class one railroads you may well find Federal, State or Local government money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2013 15:03:32 GMT -8
I think everybody starts with a particular railroad and era that they want to model due to observations earlier in life, or in some less frequent instances something they have read about and/or seen video/movie/photographic footage of. Then most stray to include other railroads (and perhaps eras) because of something new that sparks their interest. I think this statement sums it up pretty well.
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Post by curtmc on Oct 27, 2013 16:53:19 GMT -8
Yes, for the class 1s there have been some fed funded projects (most military, EPA or homeland security backed) and a lot of state negotiated funding - usually where state was compensating railroad to spend a lot of funds to run a service state gov't wanted, eliminate grade crossings, or to improve some service state would get economic benefit from (and once as a private consultant I was part of such negotiations) - but I'm not aware of any where local governments provided any funding (except for perhaps reimbursement of funds railroads spent directly for them on the RR ROW).
There have also been many projects where railroads donated large sums of money (or land) for states and localities to make improvements (such as bridges) or directly funded safety improvements for localities (to fire dept or police).
All in all, the railroads give the states and localities a lot more than they'll ever receive back... and that's not even counting the billions in taxes they pay.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 27, 2013 17:17:44 GMT -8
Yes, for the class 1s there have been some fed funded projects (most military, EPA or homeland security backed) and a lot of state negotiated funding - usually where state was compensating railroad to spend a lot of funds to run a service state gov't wanted, eliminate grade crossings, or to improve some service state would get economic benefit from (and once as a private consultant I was part of such negotiations) - but I'm not aware of any where local governments provided any funding (except for perhaps reimbursement of funds railroads spent directly for them on the RR ROW). There have also been many projects where railroads donated large sums of money (or land) for states and localities to make improvements (such as bridges) or directly funded safety improvements for localities (to fire dept or police). All in all, the railroads give the states and localities a lot more than they'll ever receive back... and that's not even counting the billions in taxes they pay. This has to be the most inaccurate post yet. States dont give funds to Railroads? Huh? I guess you Are forgetting much of the original rights of way were given to the railroads.
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Post by WP 257 on Oct 27, 2013 21:25:25 GMT -8
The various states spend untold millions of dollars on railroad vertical clearance improvement projects alone as part of the effort to get long distance trucks off highways and onto the rails where they belong. You would be shocked at the money invested just along the Interstate-81 Corridor. The State Highway DOT's know they can't build enough capacity on I-81 and have been working on alternative solutions.
State of PA recently spent $80 million just to improve train speeds on Amtrak between Harrisburg and Philadelphia (concrete ties, high speed crossovers, and signal upgrades).
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Post by dti406 on Oct 28, 2013 6:50:08 GMT -8
[I guess you Are forgetting much of the original rights of way were given to the railroads. In return for free transport of goverment people, freight etc. The railroads more than paid back for the free land they received to build these railroads. By the way my main focus is the Toledo Terminal Railroad which was an oval around and thru the City of Toledo, so I can run all the railroads that used the Toledo Terminal including the DT&I, D&TSL, Wabash, NKP, NYC, PRR, B&O, C&O, TA&W, OPS. I actually lived next (30' out the back door)to the Joint Wabash and NKP line in South Toledo and saw engines from all these railroads doing transfer runs from the Terminal to the Docks. Rick J
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Post by Rockin' Rick on Oct 28, 2013 8:28:33 GMT -8
PRR ca. 1955. Spent a ton of time on the platforms at Narberth PA where my maternal grandparents lived from late 50s until I moved out of the area in 1980. Took many, many trips on the Paoli line (and that good old Red Arrow too). The Pennsy just got in my blood. I'm not quite old enough to remember my modeling era but I chose it because it was the time steam and diesel were working together, and the Circle & Shadow Key co-existed. Thanks to the PRRT&HS I have a ton of resources to make sure I get it right.-Rick S.
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Post by nscaler711 on Oct 29, 2013 0:16:27 GMT -8
HO Scale it would be BNSF/AT&SF (I grew up in the Mojave desert and all I saw were blue/ yellow red/silver locomotives) and
N scale it would be Amtrak. Just Amtrak. I haven't decided on either eastern road even though NS runs 20 minutes north from my city. At the same time Idk if either NS or CSX run on the NEC.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Oct 29, 2013 16:33:53 GMT -8
I model the New York, New Haven & Hartford from 1872 to 1/1/1969, although the oldest piece of equipment I have is of 1907 vintage. As for Curt's objections to Amtrak, I think it's kind of odd that he has such moralistic objections to the US Gov't spending taxpayer's money on transportation (something all governments do for all modes of transportation all over the world), but has absolutely no problem modeling CSX, a railroad that was built in part by slave labor. www.nytimes.com/2002/03/27/nyregion/companies-are-sued-for-slave-reparations.html
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Post by railthunder on Oct 29, 2013 19:38:05 GMT -8
I model the Southeast primarilty Seaboard Coast Line and predecessors and I also love passenger trains so Amtrak and a lot of pre-Amtrak passenger cars inhabit my SCL Tampa Division.
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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Oct 30, 2013 0:40:40 GMT -8
WHAT:- I tried to model in the era 1930 plus to 1950 because I like wagons with roof walks and a mix of steam/diesel/overhead electric locomotives. Companies modelled :- No1 AT&SF No2 SP No3 UP and in crept WP because of the Atlas CZ coaches and N&W because I got a brass class J plus more Atlas clerestory roofed N&W coaches and PRR because I like their GG1s and Atlas do a lovely Budd streamlined sleeper to match with their CZ train. Now I must add C&NW as I have one of their doodlebugs. I think I may have to have a railroad map of America and run some threads across and where they meet up then maybe whatever is predominant make that my main model with other railroads having running rights WHY-Because they are the railroads I have model engines of.
Coach as in English parlance embraces all variety of types. gallery baggage rpo combine sleeper coach obs diner dome whatever ad finitum.
JB.sorry pressed the like button in error...jb.
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tr1
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Post by tr1 on Oct 31, 2013 13:45:42 GMT -8
ATSF ( and some BNSF). Western Railroading in wide open spaces is where it is at. Why, go anywhere on the mainline from Texas to San Bernadino.
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tr1
New Member
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Post by tr1 on Oct 31, 2013 15:33:32 GMT -8
the railroad I model after depends on the type of land scape the railroad traverse's through and the era. Currently I prefer the western area regions of the U.S. Quite frankly I don't know for sure, it requires further research. My leanings; are toward A.T.& S.F., Santa FE Burlington Northern Union Pacific & CN Just to mention the possible few. Paint schemes also play a big roll B.N.&S.F for example has a neat color scheme, the U.P. and also the S.P.I've been out of model railroading for quite a while now and my memory escapes me. tr1@ Model TRAIN FORUMS Atlas "custom line" HO Granite Gorge& Northern layout blog. Sorry no Images at this time 10-31-13
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Post by oldmuley on Oct 31, 2013 16:45:56 GMT -8
I primarily model the Wisconsin central in the 1990's with a fair amount of Green Bay and Western tossed in. Recently I've been focusing more on collecting some of the odd-ball leased engines, familiar run-through power and orphaned Fox River Valley Railroad units. The layout itself isn't based on any real location or track design- rather just what I feel like modeling.
If I were to start over again, I'd model the Nebraska Central....in N scale.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 31, 2013 18:37:09 GMT -8
the railroad I model after depends on the type of land scape the railroad traverse's through and the era. Currently I prefer the western area regions of the U.S. Quite frankly, that's one of the major reasons I defected from the SP to D&RGW in the mid-1980's. After several trips through the Rockies via Green River Utah to Grand Junction to Aspen Colorado, I was hooked on the grandeur of the scenery, both the Rockies proper and the deserts canyons of Utah. I love most of western scenery and yes, I grew up out west and did quite a bit of traveling around back and forth during my college years so to me the Midwest and the north east are not as pretty as the wide open spaces where you can see for miles. SP was my first love and I'm coming back to her with many of the great models released by Athearn and Intermountain, so I guess SP + DRGW is a good marriage, not to mention in the 80's there was lots of pooling of power, and SP passed off entire trains to D&RGW so I can have both!
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TA462
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Post by TA462 on Nov 4, 2013 6:24:05 GMT -8
Around 12 years ago I was up in Northern Ontario sitting in my boat with a couple friends fishing and having a couple pops. Sort of de stressing if you know what I mean. I was looking for a new hobby and decided I wanted to become a model railroader. My dad and I were into it when I was a kid and I've always been interested in trains. We were having a great time fishing when all of a sudden we heard a rumble coming towards us. The rumble soon became a roar and a pair of Ontario Northland SD75I's burst out of the forest and crossed a railway bridge that we're fishing close to. I thought that was the coolest thing, lol. That was the day I decided to model the Ontario Northland Railway.
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Post by rockisland652 on Nov 4, 2013 15:38:47 GMT -8
I model the Rock Island circa 1974. I used to hang out at the old (b.1945) Rock Island Tinley Park depot, where you could see E's and F's on commuter trains, or freight trains depending on the day. Also, smoky GE's dragged freight uphill west. I do remember geeps bouncing by the depot as well. That mental image is the inspiration for scenes like this: Even though the scene is unfinished, the depot a stand-in, and the power much too clean, the freight bearing down on the TPK platform is almost a total recreation of that long ago image. The power just needs to be GP-7's instead of GP-9's, as the Geep 7's had the cab signals. The sprayed tracks convey the mud that held the ties into the roadbed...sorta. I just read Greg Schneider's book, Rock Island Requiem. The books detailed the challenges faced by my beloved Rock Island during my modeling era. It pretty much explains why things were so decrepit on the Rock Island in 1974. It also more or less implies that the 'real' RI died in 1975 and only the courts kept it alive for five more years. I guess 1974 could be described as the last full year of the 'classic' RI.
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 4, 2013 15:41:35 GMT -8
Cool story, TA!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2013 16:49:27 GMT -8
The sprayed tracks convey the mud that held the ties into the roadbed...sorta. I just read Greg Schneider's book, Rock Island Requiem. The books detailed the challenges faced by my beloved Rock Island during my modeling era. It pretty much explains why things were so decrepit on the Rock Island in 1974. It also more or less implies that the 'real' RI died in 1975 and only the courts kept it alive for five more years. I guess 1974 could be described as the last full year of the 'classic' RI. When I was a volunteer at the Illinois Railway Museum a former Rock Island engineer told us that in the last decade of the Rock Island that all engine service employees working during nighttime hours, carried either a small flashlight or cigarette lighter, whether they smoked or not. The reason was you could almost guarantee that lights would be burned out on the control stand gauges. He said you'd leave Blue Island with six locomotives and by the Quad Cities there was a good chance you'd be down to three. Sitting on the back porch of my cousins home in Blue Island during a family gathering one summer evening. We watched as two ALCO C415's struggled with cut on the yard lead track into the south end of the Blue Island yard. It was the early to mid 1970's and I was a young teen and can still see clearly in my mind those two beat, filthy ALCO's trying to move the cut. They were shooting wads of molten chunks of carbon in air and one a little fire. It looked like a fireworks display with the orange carbon sparks lifting into the fading light. Eventually after about 15 to 20 minutes the engineer was able to get the cut moving towards the yard. My cousin Gene went to work for the Rock Island after he completed his service in the Navy in the mid-1950's. He lasted with the railroad until shutdown. He had a number of layoffs and call backs nearly from the time he became an employee to the end. He finished his railroad career with the Iowa Interstate. My dad's best friend Don, went to work for the Rock Island after World War II. He worked in the office and never seemed to have the ups and downs as far as layoffs as Gene. Don not only lasted till shut down, he was one of the last employees of the trustee. Don's job after shut down was finding the Rock Island's rolling stock(assets) scattered through out the country and North America and getting it gathered up for liquidation. I want to say he lasted until 1984.
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Post by gasmith on Nov 5, 2013 16:51:08 GMT -8
The main focus of my modeling is 1973-85, primarily the roads in the Hagerstown, MD area (WM, N&W, B&O, RDG, PC/CR) It kind of falls in line with Tony Koester's theory that most modelers model what was around when they were in their late teens to mid 20s, these dates take me from 15-27. (Although it took me until 2011 to finally break down and buy Chessie units.)
It allows me a fair amount of leeway on equipment, F-units, Alcos, IPD boxcars, all the way up to 45' pig trailers at the upper end. I also have some "what if" power for WM and N&W, mostly units that would have otherwise been painted Chessie or NS which along with some of my newer intermodal equipment can credibly take me up to about 2000, as well as some "what if" WM freight cars. I'm not quite as tight on the upper end of the dates on intermodal.
I also have "side interests" in the P&LE and SOU.
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Post by nscaler711 on Nov 6, 2013 1:43:26 GMT -8
From what I learned from you people... count me out on the Rocks, rocky life. yes pun intended. and doesn't the IAIS still use the Rocks logo? or something really close to it?
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Post by iccn1000 on Nov 6, 2013 7:45:55 GMT -8
IC/CN, 2004-05, Champaign Sub in HO. Fell in love with the scenery and motive power running the line in that time frame.
-Rob
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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Jul 27, 2014 1:15:42 GMT -8
Having answered the questions What and Why I realised on part of my layout that the coal mine has a narrow gauge section so when I get the Bachmann engine out the box I'll know what other railroad to add to the list. It's a D&RGW 2-6-0 steamer JB 67281
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leikec
Junior Member
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Post by leikec on Jul 27, 2014 20:27:35 GMT -8
For years I modeled the D&H, but now I collect equipment for several roads and run what I want. I used to try to model prototype scenes, but now my scenes are composites of scenes, or completely imagined.
Jeff C
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Post by jaygee on Jul 28, 2014 7:29:52 GMT -8
I have tons of railroad interests...pretty much all over the country, and even a bit of Canada. Big interests in the B&O, N&W, and NYCS, as I grew up on them, and rode them too. Favorite regional has to be the Bessemer. But the biggie is the Penn, and for specific modelling, the Sandusky line from 1954 to '64...when it went N&W. The Penn had a little of everything, in every category...motive power, passenger operation and equipment, and nearly everything else! They were even connected to Greyhound and TWA in various ways. Hard to ignore 'em. Not too imaginative on their paint schemes, but that's why we have B&O, and Lackawanna !
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Post by jbilbrey on Jul 28, 2014 19:58:38 GMT -8
As one can guess from my avatar, my favorite railroad is the Tennessee Central Railway despite the fact that it folded in 1968 and I was born in 1976. I grew up seeing the ghosts of the railroad on my way to and from my grandparents' homes and later volunteered on an excursion train that ran on the tracks of it successor [the Nashville & Eastern].
The other railroads that I am interested in or like to model include the Southeastern railroads both past [L&N, SAL, SCL, Southern, etc.] and present [CSX and NS]; however, the contemporary era doesn't interest me as much as it used to. CSX CW44AC's and SD60's have been replaced by L&N and Southern GP38-2's. I've tried to keep my focus to those that either directly served the Middle/East Tennessee area or directly interchanged with those that did.
James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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