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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 20:30:19 GMT -8
The ever frugal Cheap & Nothing Wasted or Can't & Never Will was in need of additional power for the scoots in the early 1970's. You must remember that the Illinois Legislature had yet to create the Regional Transportation Authority, and each railroad operated its own service. The only funding a railroad received was what was collected in the fare box. By this time commuter service was, if a road was lucky, a break even proposition. Any new cars or locomotives were paid for by the railroad. In 1972 the CNW bought six E8/9B's and five E8/9A's all former Union Pacific locomotives. The A's were an easy conversion to commuter power. Replace the steam generators with Cummins HEP sets, remove the dynamic brakes and dip in CNW green and yellow. The B-units were missing a much needed part.....a cab. Assistant Superintendent of Motive Power, M.H. Crandall, designed a homemade cab for the B-units. Mr. Crandall later tragically passed away trying to start a stalled commuter unit during a frigid Chicago day. Some compare the Crandall cabs to the Rock Island's EMD AB6's. The AB6's were designed and built with a cab by EMD. Hence, the styling of the AB6 is much more esthetic than the slice, dice and weld fronts of the CNW units. The model: Drawings of the front of the homely Crandall Cab have been posted on the fabulous Chicago & Northwestern Historical Society site. With drawing in hand its time to mark the roof of the model. Do not have the slightest reason why, but the bolted access panel on the front of EMD E and F-unit B-units was not removed. Instead the CNW just cut off the part of the roof that was to be removed and left the now cut panel in place. Former CNW engine service employees that worked consistently or got called for an outbound(to the suburbs) with a Crandall Cab at the front of the scoot, must have asked God why he hates them.....Especially in winter!!!! The assorted few that ran the Crandall's said the cab was very noisy, drafty, uncomfortable and cold in the winter. I have yet, to one engineer said he liked running a Crandall. The phone booth sized cab, if seen more room in a small closet, of a cab car has been said to be preferred over a Crandall.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 22:03:41 GMT -8
Cut the first cab side blank
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Post by mrsocal on Nov 22, 2013 4:56:14 GMT -8
I am going to grab some popcorn and watch this one grow. Thank you for posting the build Jim.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Nov 22, 2013 6:21:22 GMT -8
So Jim, I have noticed in several of your recent project build photos bottle of Tru-Color paint. So how do you like using it??
Bob
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 7:08:27 GMT -8
So Jim, I have noticed in several of your recent project build photos bottle of Tru-Color paint. So how do you like using it?? Bob Goes on like velvet. The finish is so nice and smooooooooooooth. A baby's behind isn't that perfect! Between it and Scalecoat II they are my go to paint. I still like Floquil especially for light gray primer. I'm one of those idiots that likes a flat for a primer and still believes the flat gives the gloss paint something to "bite into". My biggest complaint with Tru-Color is some of their yellows, like CNW and UP are too dark. Yet, they nailed SP&S ochre yellow. Go figure.
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Post by trebor on Nov 22, 2013 7:09:18 GMT -8
Good topic, will be following. True Coilor is the old Accu-Paint. I have not tried the new incarnation, but Accu-Paint was my favorite. I used Du-Pont 3206S solvent and retarder which resulted in a hard decal friendly finnish.
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Post by TBird1958 on Nov 22, 2013 10:14:38 GMT -8
Good topic, will be following. True Coilor is the old Accu-Paint. I have not tried the new incarnation, but Accu-Paint was my favorite. I used Du-Pont 3206S solvent and retarder which resulted in a hard decal friendly finnish. A big plus one! TCP is the same as Accu-Paint..........Add the DuPont 3602 and you've got magic!
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Post by trebor on Nov 22, 2013 12:40:44 GMT -8
Oooooops a Pont-Du on the solvent...... 3602S.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Nov 22, 2013 14:11:56 GMT -8
I still like Floquil especially for light gray primer. I'm one of those idiots that likes a flat for a primer and still believes the flat gives the gloss paint something to "bite into". Jim....primer....I have switched in the last year to Model Mater #2782 Lacquer based primer. It sprays super nice and I have had no issues shooting it on styrene. Bob
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 15:36:15 GMT -8
Rough cuts on the B-unit shell. You can, or at least I can, already see the Crandall cab coming together. The cut off end will yield parts. Sand filler hatch, steps and end sheet slope.
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Post by onequiknova on Nov 23, 2013 15:55:59 GMT -8
No turning back now. It looks like they used early F unit or E7 cab doors and ladders. I bet the engineers wished they had just grafted the entire nose on instead.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 16:09:43 GMT -8
No turning back now. It looks like they used early F unit or E7 cab doors and ladders. I bet the engineers wished they had just grafted the entire nose on instead. I have a stash of Highliners doors and the steps will come from my second stash of Intermountain F-unit parts. I'm thinking of grafting in the windows from a spare Proto 2000 GP9 cab or I have some spare Cannon cab windows.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 16:12:30 GMT -8
No turning back now. It looks like they used early F unit or E7 cab doors and ladders. I bet the engineers wished they had just grafted the entire nose on instead. I wonder what was worse for crew comfort, the Rock Island AB6 or C&NW Crandall Cab?
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Post by onequiknova on Nov 23, 2013 17:21:50 GMT -8
No turning back now. It looks like they used early F unit or E7 cab doors and ladders. I bet the engineers wished they had just grafted the entire nose on instead. I wonder what was worse for crew comfort, the Rock Island AB6 or C&NW Crandall Cab? I would imagine since the AB6 was factory built, it was propably better insulated. It was more spacious too. About the size of a small bedroom.
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Post by onequiknova on Nov 23, 2013 17:24:08 GMT -8
No turning back now. It looks like they used early F unit or E7 cab doors and ladders. I bet the engineers wished they had just grafted the entire nose on instead. I have a stash of Highliners doors and the steps will come from my second stash of Intermountain F-unit parts. I'm thinking of grafting in the windows from a spare Proto 2000 GP9 cab or I have some spare Cannon cab windows. Are you saying the windsheilds were the same size as a Spartan cab's?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2013 20:27:47 GMT -8
I have a stash of Highliners doors and the steps will come from my second stash of Intermountain F-unit parts. I'm thinking of grafting in the windows from a spare Proto 2000 GP9 cab or I have some spare Cannon cab windows. Are you saying the windsheilds were the same size as a Spartan cab's? Side windows. For the three front windows, I have scale drawings that I carefully temporarily tack to the slab of plastic. Then trace out the exterior of the window from the drawing and then cut the three windows into the front piece of plastic.
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Post by Judge Doom on Nov 23, 2013 21:26:08 GMT -8
Are you saying the windsheilds were the same size as a Spartan cab's? Side windows. For the three front windows, I have scale drawings that I carefully temporarily tack to the slab of plastic. Then trace out the exterior of the window from the drawing and then cut the three windows into the front piece of plastic. I'd bet the front windows probably were from EMD spartan cabs, for parts standardization. Especially if they had a stock of spares sitting around the shops.
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Post by onequiknova on Nov 23, 2013 21:56:39 GMT -8
Side windows. For the three front windows, I have scale drawings that I carefully temporarily tack to the slab of plastic. Then trace out the exterior of the window from the drawing and then cut the three windows into the front piece of plastic. I'd bet the front windows probably were from EMD spartan cabs, for parts standardization. Especially if they had a stock of spares sitting around the shops. According to the scale drawings they are taller than the EMD windshields. Too bad too, because it would have been easy to add the window gaskets using AMB laser cut windows for a Kato SD40-2, which includes laser cut gaskets.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2013 7:58:53 GMT -8
Engineer's cab side is nearly finished. The door is a Highliners part. The ladder is an Intermountain F-unit part and the sand fill was salvaged from the cut away portion of the body. The window frames are Cannon parts and are not mounted until the side is mated with the body.
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Post by peoriaman on Nov 25, 2013 8:30:37 GMT -8
I wonder; does the C&NWHS site mentioned earlier have any interior pics? I know I've never seen any.
Way back when I was about fifteen, a friend who was about 13 at the time scored a cabride from Chicago to Geneva and back, in a Crandall westbound and cab car eastbound. I never saw any pics from the trip but I did manage to snap a few of my own when they stopped at Wheaton. I'm assuming they had two crewmen in the cab? Must've been a real crowd with three...
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Post by buffalobill on Nov 29, 2013 12:34:43 GMT -8
Jim: Nice looking build, it will be interesting to see how you finish it. Did the Crandall cabs last on the CNW until the new Metra Power arrived? Bill
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 15:21:35 GMT -8
Jim: Nice looking build, it will be interesting to see how you finish it. Did the Crandall cabs last on the CNW until the new Metra Power arrived? Bill They stuck around until the F40PH's began to arrive. The Crandall's were all gone by 1984. Together with the remaining 5000 series E8's and all but two of the F7A's were purged by RTA.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 16:39:02 GMT -8
More progress on the "cab". After consulting the drawings from the CNWHS, the front windows are the same or within an inch of standard EMD spartan cab front windows. I spliced two window castings from a Cannon kit together. Now its onto the "nose".
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Post by mrsocal on Dec 4, 2013 17:01:24 GMT -8
I am very impressed and wounding, will this go back on the chassis it came from or is this shell not married yet?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2013 20:55:07 GMT -8
I am very impressed and wounding, will this go back on the chassis it came from or is this shell not married yet? It will fit any Proto 2000 A or B-unit chassis, EXCEPT the current crop. Walthers has changed the way the current production shells mount to the chassis. The front coupler and the cab in the A-unit will need to be removed. At the very least the interior cab detail would need to be modified. I'm body mounting the front coupler. The chassis I had for this is unfortunately broken in half. So now I have lots of spare Proto 2000 E-unit chassis parts. Unknown to me sometime or somehow someone must have thrown the P2K box around that held the chassis and the shell. The shell is fine but chassis frame snapped in half between the front truck bolster and the fuel tank. Other parts of the chassis frame also broke off from the rough treatment.
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Post by drolsen on Dec 5, 2013 18:32:58 GMT -8
The chassis I had for this is unfortunately broken in half. So now I have lots of spare Proto 2000 E-unit chassis parts. Unknown to me sometime or somehow someone must have thrown the P2K box around that held the chassis and the shell. The shell is fine but chassis frame snapped in half between the front truck bolster and the fuel tank. Other parts of the chassis frame also broke off from the rough treatment. Jim, Craig Z. can explain this better, but there was a batch of early P2K E8s that had impurities in the frame metal that caused them to crack over time, and it's not uncommon to find the frame in two or three pieces after years of storage in the box. I've had two end up that way, and many other people reported them too. Dave
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2013 19:55:14 GMT -8
The chassis I had for this is unfortunately broken in half. So now I have lots of spare Proto 2000 E-unit chassis parts. Unknown to me sometime or somehow someone must have thrown the P2K box around that held the chassis and the shell. The shell is fine but chassis frame snapped in half between the front truck bolster and the fuel tank. Other parts of the chassis frame also broke off from the rough treatment. Jim, Craig Z. can explain this better, but there was a batch of early P2K E8s that had impurities in the frame metal that caused them to crack over time, and it's not uncommon to find the frame in two or three pieces after years of storage in the box. I've had two end up that way, and many other people reported them too. Dave Mine may have been weak but the paddles that hold the chassis had dug deeply into the Styrofoam. The frame was snapped the cab interior had broken off the frame and the tong that is designed to hold the pilot was snapped off. It appears that from the crumbs of metal in the box that it could well have been a compromised frame, but the damage to the foam of the cradle from the paddles suggests it also got some abuse.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 7:53:02 GMT -8
Work continues on the Crandall. To me building the nose is like working on a 3-D jigsaw puzzle. You have to visualize as you fit the pieces together. The two side slabs of the nose are lightly tacked in place. I beveled each mating surface of the nose panels in order to achieve a sharp line where the panels meet. On the prototype where your are welding sheets of steel together a sharp line is natural. When you are working with styrene which is maybe ten times thicker it will take a little work. These joints will be backed up with blocks of styrene filed to match the angles and more importantly to provide strength. I've drilled the panels for marker lights. Now you get to see the angles beginning to form.
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Post by mrsocal on Dec 10, 2013 16:01:53 GMT -8
Your right, I am starting to see the loco and it looks good so fare. Nice work there Jim.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 16:13:41 GMT -8
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