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Post by Judge Doom on Jul 11, 2014 8:42:27 GMT -8
I called atlas today and talked with a few people I guess they are following this post apparently lol. Fact not a mabuchi motor Fact same person who builds there shells builds the motor in house Fact motor is a redesign with better insides False atlas is a bowser/intermountain motor like has been claimed 1) Fact: we've been saying it's either a Mabuchi or a clone of one. Since you verified for it it's not (according to Atlas's customer service, who may or may not be in the full loop), it's a clone, even if improved (it's a 5-pole motor inside vs common 3-pole ones). 2) So the factory has cloned and is manufacturing it in-house. Just like what we suspected. 3) This one is not much of a redesign, no matter what they say, and existed prior to Atlas switching as it was used in the previously released and mentioned Bowser/IMRC locos. 4) Read the whole thread again bub. Nobody is claiming it's a Bowser/IMRC motor. People are claiming it's the same motor as found in Bowser/IMRC locos, manufactured by the same factory, which is true because... It you're still a doubter with all the information presented to the contrary, here's the motor I personally pulled out of a Bowser C630, minus a broken output shaft on the left due to flywheel removal. Compare it to the new Atlas motor in the RS3 in the image posted earlier. Guess what? Identical. As it is to the IMRC SD40-2W motor.  And before you try to jump on it, any size difference is caused by the image on the screen being displayed larger than the motor held in front of it in real life. Fact: They're the same size, same case, from the same factory, same specs, same motor. Now, there's nothing we can do for you if you choose to plead ignorance, ignore all the evidence presented, and live in denial. It's a free country. But, there's been more than enough discussion presented so far that proves it's the same motor being used in all three of the maunfacturer's new locomotives. The motors in the IMRC SD40-2W, Bowser C630, and new Atlas RS3 are all the same motor, from the same factory, of the same specs. |
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Post by alcoc430 on Jul 11, 2014 9:42:52 GMT -8
I called atlas today and talked with a few people I guess they are following this post apparently lol. Fact not a mabuchi motor Fact same person who builds there shells builds the motor in house Fact motor is a redesign with better insides False atlas is a bowser/intermountain motor like has been claimed 1) Fact: we've been saying it's either a Mabuchi or a clone of one. Since you verified for it it's not (according to Atlas's customer service, who may or may not be in the full loop), it's a clone, even if improved (it's a 5-pole motor inside vs common 3-pole ones). 2) So the factory has cloned and is manufacturing it in-house. Just like what we suspected. 3) This one is not much of a redesign, no matter what they say, and existed prior to Atlas switching as it was used in the previously released and mentioned Bowser/IMRC locos. 4) Read the whole thread again bub. Nobody is claiming it's a Bowser/IMRC motor. People are claiming it's the same motor as found in Bowser/IMRC locos, manufactured by the same factory, which is true because... It you're still a doubter with all the information presented to the contrary, here's the motor I personally pulled out of a Bowser C630, minus a broken output shaft on the left due to flywheel removal. Compare it to the new Atlas motor in the RS3 in the image posted earlier. Guess what? Identical. As it is to the IMRC SD40-2W motor. View AttachmentAnd before you try to jump on it, any size difference is caused by the image on the screen being displayed larger than the motor held in front of it in real life. Fact: They're the same size, same case, from the same factory, same specs, same motor. Now, there's nothing we can do for you if you choose to plead ignorance, ignore all the evidence presented, and live in denial. It's a free country. But, there's been more than enough discussion presented so far that proves it's the same motor being used in all three of the maunfacturer's new locomotives. The motors in the IMRC SD40-2W, Bowser C630, and new Atlas RS3 are all the same motor, from the same factory, of the same specs. Did you or are you planning to pull the broken motor apart to see what it looks like inside ie 5 pole etc |
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Post by Judge Doom on Jul 11, 2014 10:03:18 GMT -8
1) Fact: we've been saying it's either a Mabuchi or a clone of one. Since you verified for it it's not (according to Atlas's customer service, who may or may not be in the full loop), it's a clone, even if improved ( it's a 5-pole motor inside vs common 3-pole ones). 2) So the factory has cloned and is manufacturing it in-house. Just like what we suspected. 3) This one is not much of a redesign, no matter what they say, and existed prior to Atlas switching as it was used in the previously released and mentioned Bowser/IMRC locos. 4) Read the whole thread again bub. Nobody is claiming it's a Bowser/IMRC motor. People are claiming it's the same motor as found in Bowser/IMRC locos, manufactured by the same factory, which is true because... It you're still a doubter with all the information presented to the contrary, here's the motor I personally pulled out of a Bowser C630, minus a broken output shaft on the left due to flywheel removal. Compare it to the new Atlas motor in the RS3 in the image posted earlier. Guess what? Identical. As it is to the IMRC SD40-2W motor. And before you try to jump on it, any size difference is caused by the image on the screen being displayed larger than the motor held in front of it in real life. Fact: They're the same size, same case, from the same factory, same specs, same motor. Now, there's nothing we can do for you if you choose to plead ignorance, ignore all the evidence presented, and live in denial. It's a free country. But, there's been more than enough discussion presented so far that proves it's the same motor being used in all three of the maunfacturer's new locomotives. The motors in the IMRC SD40-2W, Bowser C630, and new Atlas RS3 are all the same motor, from the same factory, of the same specs. Did you or are you planning to pull the broken motor apart to see what it looks like inside ie 5 pole etc Already did, look for the bold text in my previous post you quoted  If there's enough of a demand, I could probably post photos of the innards... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 11:19:51 GMT -8
Geez, it's the same damn motor, what part of that don't you understand? Same factory, same looking motor, and 99.999999999999% likely the same guts inside it as the other models with that motor. How hard is that simple thing to believe? If it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck...it's a duck. Stop trying to justify using a poorer motor in a top of the line model by saying we should take it completely apart and dissect its guts under a microscope. Gimme a break. And good luck with that if you can get the Superman-pressed flywheels off without breaking the motor shaft to look inside the motor. I know, I've tried and destroyed an (IDENTICAL) Bowser motor doing that. The Athearn gold-can motors don't have an issue with lack of torque or pulling ability unless they're from a really bad batch. It's poor quality control where some can run like Katos and others like screaming Bachmann toy motors, if at all. Most fall somewhere in between. This has been documented by many in the past on this and other forums. The tolerances on the Protos are tighter: there is less brush play in the holders leading to less brush clicking as the motor spins, the bearings and motor shaft are smaller and probably made of a better-quality material so they don't run dry and squeal like some Athearns do. The smaller surface area on those spinning parts probably helps as well. And, the Proto flywheels used are much better balanced than the Athearns, resulting in less vibration and noise compared to a BB. I know, I've taken them apart and compared them to dissected Athearns, and I've tuned Athearns to run smoothly. You seem to be trying to justify your own purchase by putting others down who have purchased models with this motor in the past, and have experienced poorer performance, and have compared the models head-to-head with better offerings. Buy whatever you want, I don't care. That doesn't change the fact, as you like to call it, that Atlas changed motors from its traditional better-performing motor, and the fact that the new motor has poorer performance based on it being used in other products that many of which have been bought by others here, tested, and reported upon. I called atlas today and talked with a few people I guess they are following this post apparently lol. Fact not a mabuchi motor Fact same person who builds there shells builds the motor in house Fact motor is a redesign with better insides False atlas is a bowser/intermountain motor like has been claimed From Andy Harmon on his Diesel List "I did hear from Rob Pisani the other day regarding the new Mabuchi-type motors they are using." I'd say its a Mabuchi clone and is at the very least a kissing cousin to the motors used by Bowser and Intermountain. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....must be a duck or some type of water fowl. It sure ain't an elephant that is for sure. |
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Post by carrman on Jul 11, 2014 11:36:02 GMT -8
I received emails from Rob Pisani at Atlas. "Hi Dave, Your e-mail was recently forwarded to me. While I can understand your concern, have you personally had any problems with the motor in this RS-3 model? I ask because we have worked closely with our supplier in China over the past year to improve the performance of this motor. In fact, it is now being produced in-house at our supplier vs. earlier versions which were purchased from a third party. From what I have been told, that manufacturer was unable to meet the requirements that we had in place for motor performance. Our in-house tests of the RS-3 and upcoming production run of Dash 8-40C/CWs (shipping soon, finally) show much more consistent, smooth performance. If you do have specific issues with the motor in your RS-3, I would appreciate your feedback. We will continue to work with our supplier to make improvements over time, if needed. Since it is produced “in house” we have much more control over the production process. Regards, Rob Pisani Atlas Model Railroad Co. www.atlasrr.com" To which I replied: "Rob, the same motor is in the Intermountain SD40-2’s, GEVO’s, the Bowser C630, C628, and other Bowser models. Performance is all over the board, and identical units from the same production runs won’t run together. On top of that, I’ve seen them stall out and not slip the drivers because they lack torque. Your previous drives were rather consistent in performance; I never had to worry about getting one that didn’t run with other Atlas units. Dave" His response: "Dave, As I’ve noted below, improvements have been made to the motor very recently. These improvements are internal and would not necessarily affect the outer housing. I can’t speak to what Bowser and Intermountain are currently specifying for their motors, or if their motors are constructed the same as ours internally. I only know what we have been trying to accomplish in working with the manufacturer. So again I ask that if you observe any aberrant running performance with one of our recent models, I would certainly want to know about it so we can continue to make improvements. I’ll reiterate that just because the motor housing looks the same or similar as past runs of locomotives made by Bowser or Intermountain does not mean that the motor windings, tolerances, etc. have not been modified and improved over time. Regards, Rob Pisani Atlas Model Railroad Co. www.atlasrr.com" Rob's a stand up guy, and I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt, but I also will not purchase any Atlas products with that motor in them. Not when older stock is out there with their previous time proven motors in them. Dave |
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Atlas RS-3
Jul 11, 2014 13:02:27 GMT -8
via mobile
Post by grabbem88 on Jul 11, 2014 13:02:27 GMT -8
You guys kill me lol What a train wreck
And to the one calling me ignorant. Next time pm me and call me all the names you want not on a open forum post
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Post by carrman on Jul 11, 2014 13:12:51 GMT -8
I still don't feel it is as good as a motor as they used before. And by "in house", that could be the factory where all three brands roll off the assembly line. I won't buy any.
Dave
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Post by WP 257 on Jul 11, 2014 18:43:13 GMT -8
Well, I was interested in buying one of the new Atlas TP&W C424's, because they ran on Santa Fe, but while monitoring this thread and waffling, it appears they are already well sold out...and I need engines that can run together in DC, so I just bought another new old stock Santa Fe GP39-2, the Kodachrome one I didn't already have, so that I can run four GP39-2's together.
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Post by Judge Doom on Jul 11, 2014 19:03:15 GMT -8
I still don't feel it is as good as a motor as they used before. And by "in house", that could be the factory where all three brands roll off the assembly line. I won't buy any. Dave Neither am I. In fact, I just got another Kato motor in and gutted my other Bowser C630 for its new motor transplant. Old one's going in the trash. A pair of Katowser C630's will run very nicely with my "old motor" Atlas C424's You guys kill me lol What a train wreck And to the one calling me ignorant. Next time pm me and call me all the names you want not on a open forum post Ooooo, someone's got their panties in a bunch on teh internets.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2014 19:59:49 GMT -8
The bottom line is you can't fault people for being highly skeptical of the new motor. Too much bad voodoo with the other co-inhabitants of that manufacturing facility. Maybe the new Atlas motor is okay, but when you are paying over $100 stealth and about $200 sound for these models you sure as heck don't want to be the poor sucker that gets "the special".
Time will tell, I'll let a whole lot of other folks be the gamblers and hope they role lucky seven's. With my luck I'd role snake eyes.
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 12, 2014 3:08:25 GMT -8
I still don't feel it is as good as a motor as they used before. And by "in house", that could be the factory where all three brands roll off the assembly line. I won't buy any. Dave Neither am I. In fact, I just got another Kato motor in and gutted my other Bowser C630 for its new motor transplant. Old one's going in the trash. A pair of Katowser C630's will run very nicely with my "old motor" Atlas C424's You guys kill me lol What a train wreck And to the one calling me ignorant. Next time pm me and call me all the names you want not on a open forum post Ooooo, someone's got their panties in a bunch on teh internets. Are trying to say something?? |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 12, 2014 3:15:17 GMT -8
I just ordered and received a new Atlas C425. I haven't bothered to take the shell off, since there is no problem operationally with it, but IF there is a problem with the RS3 motor, it does not carry over to the C425. It will pull 23 cars on my layout up a 1.5% grade, and it does slip near the top of the grade. This is at speed step 30 on my home Digitrax system.
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 12, 2014 4:08:56 GMT -8
I just ordered and received a new Atlas C425. I haven't bothered to take the shell off, since there is no problem operationally with it, but IF there is a problem with the RS3 motor, it does not carry over to the C425. It will pull 23 cars on my layout up a 1.5% grade, and it does slip near the top of the grade. This is at speed step 30 on my home Digitrax system. You saw the stupid demonstration I did... The rs-3 atleast mine has been pushed harder than any of my engines.. And if I shut off the bemf I don't hear the motor till almost speed step 85. To me me that's good cause I kato's sounding off at step 50 Is it a 20yr motor? Nope but I can't predict the future but its good for right now atleast |
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Post by Spikre on Jul 12, 2014 9:58:36 GMT -8
 the TP&W C424s may have run on Santa Fe,but they were sold off rather quickly to M&E after the takeover. they do seem to be the only Alco Century units that Santa Fe ever owned, even if it wasn't for that long. Spikre
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Post by WP 257 on Jul 12, 2014 14:47:18 GMT -8
Thanks Spikre. I know. They did run on Santa Fe for a little while, perhaps even before the takeover. McMillan's Route of the Warbonnets book has one of the TP&W units in Santa Fe diesel consists, in at least one photo, and discusses how/where they were pooled with Santa Fe motive power...Closest thing they ever had to a Santa Fe Century...
Usually Santa Fe did not lease other railroads' power--they usually had enough of their own--except during the late '70's when they were forced to lease a lot of motive power from various sources, including many CN units and also brand new Chessie System GP40-2's, which were temporarily renumbered but ran in otherwise full Chessie markings.
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Post by alcoc430 on Jul 13, 2014 18:02:03 GMT -8
I just looked under the hood of the most recent Trainman gp38-2 run. It has the same motor as the RS3. Another issue I noticed is that the drive shafts / flywheels openings are different than the previous Atlas runs (looks like bowsers). Atlas will have to make an upgrade kit motor/flywheels drive shafts, worm couplers etc in order to replace a blown motor etc on an older model. The light board is also different than recent runs, some of the later altas lokies I have, have wires with plugs that plug into the pc board this one is older style with the wires attached individually to the pc board.
overall, I guess this is not a problem if the parts are available.
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Post by carrman on Jul 13, 2014 18:10:38 GMT -8
Remember though, we're told that's not the same motor Bowsers using. Dave |
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