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Post by jlwii2000 on Jul 28, 2014 15:01:22 GMT -8
Hey everyone,
I was invited to MTH Headquarters to take a closer look at all products in MTH's upcoming HO scale product line without the noise and tough filming conditions/lighting of the train shows. I brought along my best camera so after my interview with Andy in the video, I would suggest beefing up the video quality to 1080p HD on the gear logo at the bottom right of the Youtube video. You can see some really up close detail and sounds of the ES44AC. You will also see the Dash 9, Allegheny steam locomotive and Subway cars. I also spoke to Andy Edleman, Mike Wolf and a few other folks at MTH about what the future holds and it's looking very bright with these products and upcoming ones. Personally, I'm hyped about the late model GEVO in demo scheme and UP scheme. I also look forward to the Dash 9 and Allegheny steam locomotive. While there I noted several examples where MTH is listening to the voice of the customer to make improvements, and that's just what I was hoping to see from any manufacturer.
Enjoy the sneak peek! - James
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Post by atsfan on Jul 28, 2014 16:00:10 GMT -8
Any hints given or demanded for modern HO freight cars?
MTH cars are all transition era (as in O scale Lionel and MTH copies).
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Post by atsfan on Jul 28, 2014 16:01:39 GMT -8
BTW, where was Taylor their video babe/presenter?
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jul 28, 2014 16:15:28 GMT -8
BTW, where was Taylor their video babe/presenter? There were some HO pieces of rolling stock there, but I forget what they were. I think they were Iron ore cars. As for Taylor, I did not see her there. There are rumors going around that Taylor was never real at all, just a computer generated girl.  I'm kidding, she's not CGI but I didn't meet her. -James |
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Post by atsfan on Jul 28, 2014 16:18:45 GMT -8
OK, I just drooled all over the keyboard on the ATSF Dash 9s.
I have all the Kato Versions. But you can't have too many.
I didn't get to ask in Cleveland and if you have contact at MTH maybe you can but, why does not MTH offer a DCS decoder?
That is it fits an DCC quick plug, but offers DCS?
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Post by atsfan on Jul 28, 2014 16:19:50 GMT -8
BTW, where was Taylor their video babe/presenter? There were some HO pieces of rolling stock there, but I forget what they were. I think they were Iron ore cars. As for Taylor, I did not see her there. There are rumors going around that Taylor was never real at all, just a computer generated girl. I'm kidding, she's not CGI but I didn't meet her. -James Well that is just too bad.  |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jul 28, 2014 16:41:51 GMT -8
OK, I just drooled all over the keyboard on the ATSF Dash 9s. I have all the Kato Versions. But you can't have too many. I didn't get to ask in Cleveland and if you have contact at MTH maybe you can but, why does not MTH offer a DCS decoder? That is it fits an DCC quick plug, but offers DCS? I never thought of that one, that's a good idea. I don't know why they don't. Maybe it will take some time to develop. |
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Post by atsfan on Jul 28, 2014 16:46:53 GMT -8
OK, I just drooled all over the keyboard on the ATSF Dash 9s. I have all the Kato Versions. But you can't have too many. I didn't get to ask in Cleveland and if you have contact at MTH maybe you can but, why does not MTH offer a DCS decoder? That is it fits an DCC quick plug, but offers DCS? I never thought of that one, that's a good idea. I don't know why they don't. Maybe it will take some time to develop. They have had 5 years by now. I would not be against DCS, but thought they should offer that to boost the adoption rate. |
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Post by keystonefarm on Jul 28, 2014 19:00:15 GMT -8
Did they happen to mention when the HO scale PRR H9/10 Consolidation would be available ? Seems to be missing from what was at the Cleveland show so I heard. ----- Thanks, Ken
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Post by dstark on Jul 29, 2014 7:54:39 GMT -8
Any hints given or demanded for modern HO freight cars? MTH cars are all transition era (as in O scale Lionel and MTH copies). The MTH HO 60' chain flats are a mid-70s prototype, hardly transition era! They are close to, but not copies, of the Intermountain 60' flat - each are a slightly different prototype: www.mthtrains.com/content/80-98007Doug Stark |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 29, 2014 8:10:28 GMT -8
Interesting about the 60' chain flat. I haven't followed MTH much but noticed most of their freight cars were too early for me. Is MTH now going after the 70's an 80's modelers with fairly detailed models? These appear to be similar to the IMR 60' flat car as pointed out by Mr. Stark. The TTX speed logo is too new for me however.
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Post by dti406 on Jul 29, 2014 9:09:44 GMT -8
Did they happen to mention when the HO scale PRR H9/10 Consolidation would be available ? Seems to be missing from what was at the Cleveland show so I heard. ----- Thanks, Ken It has been delayed, maybe they are going to fix it as it is neither an H9 nor an H10 Consolidation as has been regularly stated by the PRR Historical Society Modeling Committee and Mike will not accept or acknowledge their assistance in making a correct model as is typical of the arrogance of the people at MTH. Rick J |
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Post by TBird1958 on Jul 29, 2014 9:18:41 GMT -8
Interesting about the 60' chain flat. I haven't followed MTH much but noticed most of their freight cars were too early for me. Is MTH now going after the 70's an 80's modelers with fairly detailed models? These appear to be similar to the IMR 60' flat car as pointed out by Mr. Stark. The TTX speed logo is too new for me however.
Jim,
That 60' flat has been out awhile, I have one in G.N. Jade Green. It came with a Norscot Cat Backhoe glued to the deck ( much too new for the flat or my RR) that was difficult to remove. Otherwise it's a nice model, certainly a big improvement over the old MDC car.
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Post by John Sheridan on Jul 29, 2014 9:18:51 GMT -8
OK, I just drooled all over the keyboard on the ATSF Dash 9s. I have all the Kato Versions. But you can't have too many. I didn't get to ask in Cleveland and if you have contact at MTH maybe you can but, why does not MTH offer a DCS decoder? That is it fits an DCC quick plug, but offers DCS? Why ? Because MTH, in a moment of insanity thought that once everyone witnessed the pure 100% WIN & AWESOMENESS of the DCS decoder, everyone would toss their DCC decoders in the trash and proclaim:  When in reality, the response was:  |
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Post by riogrande on Jul 29, 2014 10:07:45 GMT -8
That 60' flat has been out awhile, I have one in G.N. Jade Green. It came with a Norscot Cat Backhoe glued to the deck ( much too new for the flat or my RR) that was difficult to remove. Otherwise it's a nice model, certainly a big improvement over the old MDC car. I wouldn't mind a GN version myself, as long as I don't have to pay for and remove a load that is too new for me! Cheers, Jim |
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Post by atsfan on Jul 29, 2014 14:35:44 GMT -8
OK, I just drooled all over the keyboard on the ATSF Dash 9s. I have all the Kato Versions. But you can't have too many. I didn't get to ask in Cleveland and if you have contact at MTH maybe you can but, why does not MTH offer a DCS decoder? That is it fits an DCC quick plug, but offers DCS? Why ? Because MTH, in a moment of insanity thought that once everyone witnessed the pure 100% WIN & AWESOMENESS of the DCS decoder, everyone would toss their DCC decoders in the trash and proclaim: When in reality, the response was: Many people run dc and might be interested in running dcs. Nobody is saying throw decoders in in the trash which is a large exaggeration. Dcs actually works well. If you don't like MTH or DCS then move along as this isn't for you. |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jul 29, 2014 16:53:22 GMT -8
That was the problem...DCS was offered standard in lieu of DCC and didn't play that well with traditional DCC systems.
Donnell
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jul 29, 2014 17:17:12 GMT -8
Now I am definitely no expert, but I never had any DCS problems as far as DCC compatibility. My MRC prodigy advance would operate MTH locomotives like any other. I know there was limited CV access and adjustments, but overall I didn't find DCS to be much of a hindrance at all. I actually like some of the features it has. But that's me, I'm a simpleton lol.
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Post by atsfan on Jul 29, 2014 17:19:15 GMT -8
Today the MTH sound engines run well on DC, DCC, and DCS. You can also buy a unit to install on a DCC layout that will allow you to run DCS on the same layout. What I am saying is there are people who would consider installing a DCS decoder into a non DCC equipped engine, and run it on. DCS layout. If MTH wants to grow DCS in HO either they flood the market with model types , or they offer their own decoders for non MTH engines. Otherwise DCS will be a very small part of the HO market . Obviously if someone is heavily invested in DCC they are not interested. |
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Post by atsfan on Jul 29, 2014 17:20:43 GMT -8
Now I am definitely no expert, but I never had any DCS problems as far as DCC compatibility. My MRC prodigy advance would operate MTH locomotives like any other. I know there was limited CV access and adjustments, but overall I didn't find DCS to be much of a hindrance at all. I actually like some of the features it has. But that's me, I'm a simpleton lol. Was is the key word. Today there are few if any issues. MTH specifically offered releases to fix what issues their were. |
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jul 29, 2014 17:30:17 GMT -8
When MTH first got into the HO-scale market, they strongly recommended purchasing a DCS system to take full advantage of of all the functionality of their proprietary DCS decoders. This was a marketing ploy that didn't pan out so well as many modelers they targeted had already heavily invested in DCC, thus it was impractical for them to invest in a completely different system.
Donnell
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jul 29, 2014 17:38:25 GMT -8
When MTH first got into the HO-scale market, they strongly recommended purchasing a DCS system to take full advantage of of all the functionality of their proprietary DCS decoders. This was a marketing ploy that didn't pan out so well as many modelers they targeted had already heavily invested in DCC, thus it was impractical for them to invest in a completely different system.
Donnell I purchased a DCS commander which worked with my DCC system. I think I paid $120 for it, and it allowed me to access the DCS specific features. However, after getting the DCS commander I realized there weren't many features I couldn't access with regular DCC. The biggest advantage I found with the DCS was the quillable steam whistles and the easy buttons but DCC handled most of the features as well. So becoming DCS capable wasn't too pricey, just $120.
But I get it, some people aren't DCS fans. As modelers, we all have varying opinions and feelings on different items.
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Post by John Sheridan on Jul 30, 2014 4:47:39 GMT -8
That was the problem...DCS was offered standard in lieu of DCC and didn't play that well with traditional DCC systems.
DonnellThe worst part of DCS is that it is a "proprietary" system. MTH owns the rights a the sole manufacturer in a lame attempt at cornering the market. They were forced by the market to change their tune once they realized no one was going to come rushing to their system. |
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Post by atsfan on Jul 30, 2014 8:28:53 GMT -8
That was the problem...DCS was offered standard in lieu of DCC and didn't play that well with traditional DCC systems.
DonnellThe worst part of DCS is that it is a "proprietary" system. MTH owns the rights a the sole manufacturer in a lame attempt at cornering the market. They were forced by the market to change their tune once they realized no one was going to come rushing to their system. MTH was their O scale product They simply moved it to HO Corner the market is inaccurate |
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Post by Spikre on Jul 30, 2014 13:34:36 GMT -8
 info is now on page 3. took longer than expected to get it moved, but its done finially. Spikre 
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jul 30, 2014 19:01:53 GMT -8
The worst part of DCS is that it is a "proprietary" system. MTH owns the rights a the sole manufacturer in a lame attempt at cornering the market. They were forced by the market to change their tune once they realized no one was going to come rushing to their system. MTH was their O scale product They simply moved it to HO Corner the market is inaccurate
Corner the market is exactly what they tried to do. They expected HO scale modelers to embrace all of the gimmicks found in their O-scale toy train products. Smoke, "clickly-clack" sounds, station announcements, simulated radio transmissions...all gimmicks. Their website still boasts the "advances" DCS supposedly has over DCC, and while it may work fully with their locomotives, they will have an extremely tough time trying to convert the masses, which is the reason they now include more DCC compatibility.
So yeah, it was a little more than, "a simple move to HO..."
Donnell |
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jul 30, 2014 19:16:34 GMT -8
MTH was their O scale product They simply moved it to HO Corner the market is inaccurate
Corner the market is exactly what they tried to do. They expected HO scale modelers to embrace all of the gimmicks found in their O-scale toy train products. Smoke, "clickly-clack" sounds, station announcements, simulated radio transmissions...all gimmicks. Their website still boasts the "advances" DCS supposedly has over DCC, and while it may work fully with their locomotives, they will have an extremely tough time trying to convert the masses, which is the reason they now include more DCC compatibility.
So yeah, it was a little more than, "a simple move to HO..."
Donnell Donnell, I respect you a ton but I disagree with your use of the word gimmick. Regardless of whether it's MTH or any other manufacturer, I do not consider smoke, clickity clack sounds, station announcements and simulated radio transmissions gimmicks. I can somewhat see the station announcements and radio transmissions but the other sounds and features are a way to enhance a model to look or sound like the prototype. Prototype steamers smoke, prototype locomotives clickity clack, well it's mostly the rolling stock but still the sound is made. So I don't know that some of those features are really gimmicks. Many people thought the MTH ES44AC Demo unit was gimmicky for having those charging lights, but they're real so how can mirroring what the prototype does be gimmicky?
The definition of gimmick is " a trick or device intended to attract attention, publicity, or business." So I guess anything can be a gimmick because every manufacturer wants those three things...but I just think that word is thrown around too much with mean spirited intent.
I'm not talking about just MTH, but anytime that word is thrown out to any manufacturer. But, in your defense I guess with that definition, it's entirely subjective.
As to the intent of MTH by creating DCS, I have no idea what their plans were. Only the people that worked there at the time would know. It could have been as simple as trying to introduce an alternative means for the market to enjoy trains or it could have been an evil plot to take over the world, I have no idea. -James
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 30, 2014 20:00:24 GMT -8
What exactly does DCS offer beyond what DCC does? I see the MTH website mentions stuff like scale speed and consisting out of the box, which are not really things you can do aftermarket without a bunch of manual tweaking.
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Post by WP 257 on Jul 30, 2014 20:06:10 GMT -8
DCS is a similar system but not the same as DCC (see below), so there are plusses and minuses. The consisting of all MTH engines right out of the box with zero required programming is a plus.
If for example you don't want the (some folks think them to be) "corny" passenger or freight train station sounds, they are easily turned off with one button in DCS, if I recall correctly.
DCS offers several one-touch simple pushbutton features that save time and keystrokes. They have a horn/whistle button, for example, instead of having to remember which DCC function that is. The incremental speed roller on the DCS Controller is really sweet--you can give it almost a gentle spin and it will slowly step the speed up or down (it does not spin much but is a really nice, easy way to control a train). It just has a nice feel to it. No dial or arrow buttons to hold down to advance speed, etc. The DCS system is a little bit more "intuitive" feeling, especially for those folks who might not want to remember all kinds of CV's to have to play with. It would be a little bit easier for newbies to the hobby, and perhaps for that reason it seems to be somewhat more "accepted" by the O-scale or "toy train" crowd.
My understanding is that at the time DCS was originally developed, DCC was in its infancy, too. DCC simply did not have the relative standardization of features between manufacturers that it enjoys today. As such DCS was a competitive system, and remains somewhat of a legacy. Sales-wise, they just never gave up on it yet.
I too am basically a simpleton when it comes to operations, and although I can use DCC and program CV's, etc., I have used DCS and it worked wonderfully well--especially with the MTH HO big steam power. I actually prefer DCS over DCC, though I prefer instead to stick with plain DC except with the few sound-equipped engines I have that run ever so slightly better in DCC.
Also, though no manufacturer's items are perfect and 100% trouble free, some train stores I know report very few problems with MTH HO steamers, in general, especially when compared to the competition. The MTH steamers seem to break down less often than the other guys'. The ones I had owned were great...then I dieselized.
Your mileage may vary.
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Post by WP 257 on Jul 30, 2014 20:44:22 GMT -8
One neat feature built into the DCS is automatic recognition of all DCS engines. Also, the Controller tracks the cumulative scale mileage of all DCS engines--for those folks who want to know that sort of information--you literally can get a report of how many scale miles each engine has traveled. Most might not care, but some would care.
Obviously, it's not for everyone. Since I have mostly Atlas motive power now, with a exceptions, so I no longer use it (got a very good price for it used on Ebay--only lost maybe 20%). The MTH steamers held their value pretty well for me.
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I'm kidding, she's not CGI but I didn't meet her.
