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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 25, 2014 17:09:24 GMT -8
Yup, they're back: www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-5200and also in Trailer Train: www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/910-5209And other misc. roads. Part numbers are 910-5200 thru 910-5212 There's no pictures yet. Vaporware? You be the judge! The prototype was pretty durable. There were 298 in 1980, 274 in 1985, and 56 in 1990. There must have been some in yellow. For that matter, they must have been re-arranged some, as hitches spaced for 35' trailers aren't the best choice in later years. Ed
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Post by atsfan on Aug 25, 2014 17:47:43 GMT -8
Vapor ware ? Were these actually released before? If yes then they are probably actual.
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Post by keystonefarm on Aug 25, 2014 18:25:27 GMT -8
These are not vaporware. They were first released by Walthers back in the mid to late 80's . They were a Beth Steel design built originally for the PRR as their F-39 flats for Truck Train service. As built they did not have hitches . They used supports under the fifth wheel plate and a number of rachet tie downs to attach the trailers. By the time they were in TT yellow they were used to haul farm machinery and other non trailer loads. Good to see them being run again with improvements. ---- Ken
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Post by jbilbrey on Aug 25, 2014 18:30:02 GMT -8
It is good to see them back. There shorter length makes them a little better looking on most layouts. I found a NIB TTX (along with a FRP Front Runner) at a LHS last fall and plan to redetail both sometime in the future, once I knock out about a dozen other projects.
James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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Post by mlehman on Aug 25, 2014 23:26:21 GMT -8
I have about half a dozen from the original run. They suit my era pretty well (60s-early70s) and the layouts min radius (28"). With the improvements, a pretty fair price. I may have to order a few.
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Post by stevewagner on Aug 26, 2014 3:46:37 GMT -8
I built one Pennsy and one Erie 75' flatcar from the old Walthers kits. (The Erie did have some duplicates or near duplicates of the Pennsy F39A's and used some in passenger or mail trains.) I have one lettered for Trailer Train that's also prototypical. I'm not sure about the authenticity of the Burlington, Southern Pacific and Wabash cars that Walthers also lists as coming next January, but I think that back in the 1950's (before the great expansion of the Norfolk & Western) the PRR owned a considerable stake in the Wabash (and the N&W).
The Walthers website and the firm's September flyer list a dozen two-packs of 32' trailers and six two-packs of new 40-footers, listing for $21.98 per pack, expected to be delivered this December. Unfortunately, neither drawings nor photos of the paint schemes are shown.
Walthers used to make Erie 32' trailers, but they were the standard flat-sided models. Photos I've seen show Erie trailers of at least approximately that length, but with "ribbed" sides and a rounded front end. I've managed to snag a set of the old Walthers decals that will be good for lettering a model once I've kitbashed one.
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Post by riogrande on Aug 26, 2014 4:11:58 GMT -8
I remember when those were out as a kit years ago - late 1980's? Looks like they are back in RTR form.
I didn't realize so many were still in service in the 80's although I don't recall seeing any on the D&RGW or SP. Were most of them in specialized service by then? Since they appeared too early for my modeling period, I never got any of the kits; I was after 89' TOFC flat cars at the time.
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Post by mlehman on Aug 26, 2014 4:20:36 GMT -8
I seem to remember RMJ or another mag having an extensive article on the 75' flats when they came out. Cars not exact for several of the roadnames, but paint was OK IIRC, but that's a long time ago. I can take pics of whatever I have on hand if no other documentation surfaces.
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Post by riogrande on Aug 26, 2014 7:13:26 GMT -8
I would find it interesting to see RL photo's of those 75' flat cars from the 70's and 80's to see how they were being used at that time. That would be cool!
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Post by mlehman on Aug 26, 2014 7:44:43 GMT -8
Jim, Found the cites from RMJ. Thought I had the earlier one, but guess not. Bethlehem's 75-foot trailer flat cars, from Walthers from Railmodel Journal April 1990 p. 22 Trailer Train Company ATTX 75-foot Piggyback Flats from Walthers Model by Mont Switzer from Railmodel Journal July 2007 p. 49 I'm almost certain I read the 1990 issue. IIRC, some were retrofitted to handle containers, as three 20' boxes or a similar combination would fit, but maybe I'm remembering that wrong. Dang CRS... I like to run these cars because they just look better on my 28" curves. I have a few 89' cars and they just look wrong, even though they track round the curves well enough. I have a few autoracks and hi-cube boxes, some full length passenger cars, too, and somehow they being taller seems to offset this effect, so doesn't bother me as much. Also, my narrowgauge piggyback service can't handle trailers any longer than 32' so... Almost certainly not prototypical on the Rio Grande for when they were hauling piggyback trailers, of course, you can get away with a lot of things when you operate an imaginary secondary main and modern narrowgauge like I do.
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Post by Spikre on Aug 26, 2014 11:53:47 GMT -8
Steve, the Erie cars were duplicates of the F39s except the tie down railing went to the end of the car. later the Erie cars were stretched to 85' by adding 5' extensions to each end of the car.think the tie down railing was extended also,but will check that. Wabash: PRR owned most of Wabash stock but let them operate sort of Independantly. this may have been an ICC Condition,or a deal with the Gould family ? PRR leased the Wabash to N&W,this caused N&W to boot EL out of the Merger,and later led to DERECO. NS merged Wabash into them during 1989. Erie,DL&W,D&H,B&M would have been better off merging together before 1960,but D&H and B&M pulled out over who would be the major Merger Partner. D&H thought it should be them as they were the strongest financially. Erie thought it should be them as they were the largest,and had the main Gateways. B&M never seemed to be really interested,but may have gone in if a higher price per share was offered,but it never was. PRR sold most,but not all of their F39s to Trailer Train at Start Up. Wabash had some of their own F39s and leased some from PRR. Spikre
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Aug 26, 2014 12:46:04 GMT -8
I actually saw some of the 75' TOFC flats in MOW service in Providence, RI this year. They are hard to miss with that unique tie down/rub rail. For all the new road names: www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=Freight&scale=H&manu=910&item=&keywords=75%27+Piggyback+Flatcar+&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=SearchThese Walthers 75' flats were not 1980's, but were new in 1991. I have the 1991 Walthers Catalog (they are on the cover), and inside on Page 55, they say "NEW". Back in 1991, the road names were: Trailer Train (tuscan red) Erie (black) PRR (Tuscan red) Wabash (black...but mine are bcr) SP (bcr) CB&Q (bcr) TTX (yellow) ATTX (yellow) Undec. (molded in yellow) Today, the new release is practically the same list, with only the more modern yellow TTX & ATTX cars being absent. Of course, today's list has two numbers per road, while in 1991 it was only one. The trailer list in 1991 was far more diverse than the car fleet: Erie PRR Wabash Cooper-Jarrett ATSF SP Mid States ICX CB&Q B&O NKP C&O Carolina GI Truck Gateway PIE Roadway Preston 151 Line Undec. One number per trailer name, of course. Prices in those days were $8.98 per trailer ($15.71 in today's dollars), $6.98 for a pair of trailers ($12.21 in 2014). These models were all released in the old Walthers white & blue boxes, with the flat cars being in unique boxes approx. 1.5" x 2" x 12". Easy to spot at a train show, but a pain to put a completed model back in...and forget trailers. Later, a special run was made with PRR cars in a 3-pack, but now in a wider blue & white box. I've also seen a PRR 3-pack in the more modern Walthers red box, but they are very rare (I've only ever seen one). I have way too many of these cars. I have 25 or so running on my club's layout, and another 10 or more still in the box to be built and re-numbered. They make a great unit train at the club during open houses, and the addition of CMW trailers make for a real colorful train.
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Post by Spikre on Aug 26, 2014 12:53:25 GMT -8
Paul, the Original Release had at least 3 numbers per road,possibly more as the "Spaghetti Boxes" came twelve to a box. regular stock may have just been one number per run ? if You can find a Walthers Monthly Flyer for when these were released it should have all the info on these cars. Spikre
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Post by riogrande on Aug 26, 2014 15:20:03 GMT -8
I'll go for 1990. These flats were not really on my radar due to era time frame etc. so I didn't pay too close attention, only remember them hitting the market when I was in grad school.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Aug 26, 2014 16:09:00 GMT -8
I dunno, Spikre. You sure you're not thinking of the later editions? There's nothing in the Catalog or even on the boxes themselves to indicate different car numbers (at least on the half dozen I have sitting in front of me right now). Isn't that kind of odd that they didn't advertise it or mark the boxes?
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Post by jbilbrey on Aug 26, 2014 16:10:36 GMT -8
The July 1990 issue of RMC also had an article and plans for the F39. I also thought I saw an article in Mainline Modeler last week as well when I was going through my back issues. Trailer Train apparently kept some without hitches around to move farm & construction equipment as well as other larger length loads.
James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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Post by grahamline on Aug 27, 2014 6:30:36 GMT -8
I'm informed the new F39 release from Walthers will have some metal parts in the underframe, which, if true, will add some needed weight down low.
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Post by Spikre on Aug 27, 2014 10:44:27 GMT -8
Paul, when Walthers did a New model the 1st assortment would have 3 or 4 roads in it,the set of 12 cars would have unique numbers. later if they did a separate run of 12 cars of 1 road there would be 12 unique numbers. the Trailers were sold as 2 packs,the 40' in the White Walthers boxes,the 35' Trailers were also 2 packs originally,that matches Your prices. later the 35' trailers were sold as singles in a clear bag. maybe the 40' trailers were also ?,but don't recall exactly as there were plenty here by then. Originally both Trailers were part of the Cox 1975 Line. later AHM/Regal Way,Model Power,IHC,and Walthers sold them in different ways. Model Power bought the COX line about 1980. the Erie 75' Flats here do have different numbers. Edit-- the single trailers had their prices adjusted downward. and not all the flats or trailers came out at the same Time,but over a length of time not recalled here. the 40' Trailers were not part of the 75' Flat and 35' Trailer release,they were part of some other building release,or something ?? Spikre
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Post by drolsen on Aug 27, 2014 14:39:02 GMT -8
I'm informed the new F39 release from Walthers will have some metal parts in the underframe, which, if true, will add some needed weight down low. The product description on their website says, * New Die Cast Underframe for Extra Weight & Improved Operation." I like how they've made this type of improvement to their older kits as they converted them to RTR. I'm skeptical about the statement in the description that these flats were used until the late '90s. Anyone have evidence of this outside of MOW use? Dave
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Post by Amboy Secondary on Aug 27, 2014 16:47:39 GMT -8
I'm skeptical about the statement in the description that these flats were used until the late '90s. Anyone have evidence of this outside of MOW use? Dave They were used to handle export farm machinery and dimensional loads through the late 1980s, I can vouch for that, as they would come in to Port Newark, but I do not recall them in the '90s. Suffice it to say they were no longer in intermodal service by then. Joe
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Post by drolsen on Aug 27, 2014 17:30:45 GMT -8
They were used to handle export farm machinery and dimensional loads through the late 1980s, I can vouch for that, as they would come in to Port Newark, but I do not recall them in the '90s. Suffice it to say they were no longer in intermodal service by then. Thanks, Joe, that's interesting. I'm tempted to just buy one undecorated car, since it's an interesting prototype, in the off chance that I can find an excuse to detail it up and use it. Dave
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Post by mlehman on Aug 27, 2014 21:25:55 GMT -8
Dave, From the July 1990 RMC article:
"As of March 31, 1990, there were 101 F39A cars remaining on the TrailerTrain roster, 78 of which are ATTX and 23 which are JTTX."
There were also 2 F85M cars as of that date, which may have been stretched, rebuilt F39A, but since several groups of cars went into this program, it can't be confirmed they originally were F39A cars.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 27, 2014 21:40:31 GMT -8
JTTX???
Mike,
the plot thickens!!!
Ed
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Post by mlehman on Aug 27, 2014 21:44:03 GMT -8
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Post by grahamline on Aug 27, 2014 22:14:05 GMT -8
This sort of actual research could be very damaging to rumor production.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Aug 28, 2014 6:40:00 GMT -8
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 28, 2014 8:18:59 GMT -8
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Post by jaygee on Aug 29, 2014 7:41:51 GMT -8
Beth may have designed the car, and even built all the frames, but at least some of these were assembled in Altoona, in the mid '50s.
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Post by Spikre on Aug 29, 2014 11:36:25 GMT -8
the F39B does NOT match the Walthers model,they were Cast Steel, 1 piece flats cast by GSC/Commonwealth. the Walthers cars are F39/F39A cars. Bethleham did build some of the cars. cars built by PRR should have been totally built by PRR,they had several shops capable of complete car fabrication. Spikre
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Post by jaygee on Aug 31, 2014 18:25:37 GMT -8
Photos, in color FWIW, taken in the mid '50's show the car frames being stacked up on the south side of the PRR main...not too far from Altoona station. IIRC, this was out of Don Ball's big color Pennsy book.
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