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Post by WP 257 on Oct 18, 2014 17:58:16 GMT -8
Please refer to prototype photos. It was common on some of the engines of that era for the handrail up to the cab front door entrance to have a different series of bends than the handrail on the engineer's (non-entrance) side. I do not believe there's any "manufacturer defect" there. Instead it appears they made a few thoughtful revisions to the model at/after the pilot model stage.
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Post by theengineshed on Oct 18, 2014 19:26:35 GMT -8
Just unpacked ACL 3012 and the rear engineer's side handrail has the same bends as 3016. Either they were both oriented the same way in the box and a blow damaged both handrails in the same direction (its possible, I suppose) or they were manufactured that way (more likely). At the front, there is a three dimensional bend in the rails on the cab door side, that isn't present on the opposite side, good catch Brian. The extra bends aren't that obvious unless you look head on. Rivarossi does seem to have "handed" the handrails.
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Post by theengineshed on Oct 19, 2014 12:15:41 GMT -8
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Post by thebessemerkid on Oct 19, 2014 13:04:00 GMT -8
This could get a little fun (and may turn it into another C636 drinking thread  Anyone have some more KBM U25C pix?  Also looking around for a good head on prototype U25C pic that maybe someone with Photoshop skills can overlay  My recollection is U25's and later U-boats (28,30,33 & 36) had a decidedly different 'look' but never thought about it in depth. Are there notable physical differences between say Atlas and P2K U28/30B's? |
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Post by thebessemerkid on Oct 19, 2014 13:15:20 GMT -8
Quick thought: There is a good opening here for the long neglected GE PRR E44.
Many thought Bachmann would follow the E33, but after several years...
I think it was Bill Schopp who 30+ years ago did an AHM/Riv U25C to E44 conversion (RMC?) but the Riv end-driven trucks always messed it up.
Could the Pennsy non-GG1 electric drought end in 2015?
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Post by theengineshed on Oct 19, 2014 14:28:16 GMT -8
Just wonderin': I notice that the, what, speedometer cables, once they curve upward, kinda stop up in the air. And that that early termination shows from the side. Are these cables removable?  I think it might be nice to replace them with ones that went higher--maybe into holes. The cables not going all the way up is a tough one. I thought about gluing a tube in the overhead and then trying to plug the cable up into it or maybe drilling holes into the frame, but I don't think it can be done with the existing cable, not long enough and too stiff. If Rivarossi had made the delrin cable longer it would have looked better, but I bet it after some use the cable would have fatigued and broken from rubbing against the frame. There's quite a bit of swing in the trucks... |
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Post by slowfreight on Oct 19, 2014 16:32:35 GMT -8
Just wonderin': I notice that the, what, speedometer cables, once they curve upward, kinda stop up in the air. And that that early termination shows from the side. Are these cables removable? I think it might be nice to replace them with ones that went higher--maybe into holes. The cables not going all the way up is a tough one. I thought about gluing a tube in the overhead and then trying to plug the cable up into it or maybe drilling holes into the frame, but I don't think it can be done with the existing cable, not long enough and too stiff. If Rivarossi had made the delrin cable longer it would have looked better, but I bet it after some use the cable would have fatigued and broken from rubbing against the frame. There's quite a bit of swing in the trucks... Remember European manufacturers are like Kato...they still design for something like 16" curves and no one uses smaller than code 83 rail. I got frustrated in European hobby shops where the models were beautiful but no one uses RP25 flanges--and when you have lots of code 55 rail, anything worse than RP25 is a no-go. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 21, 2014 9:03:14 GMT -8
The ACL and PRR locos look pretty good. How about the NP and CB&Q? Is the "yellow" on the NP unit adequate? And the Chinese Red on the Q?
Ed
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Post by onequiknova on Oct 21, 2014 9:35:14 GMT -8
The ACL and PRR locos look pretty good. How about the NP and CB&Q? Is the "yellow" on the NP unit adequate? And the Chinese Red on the Q? Ed The colors on the Q unit look off to me. The gray is too light and the red is too dark. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 11:54:27 GMT -8
I have one here on my bench and as a Burlington Modeler....I like it. As an extreme rivet counter, I find very little fault with it. The handrail issue is no problem. The stanchions are correct, straight, and the paint matches the body. The handrails that are square instead of round are hardly noticeable. In fact, I am surprised about good the handrails look.
The photos on the net do not do it justice on the colors.......the red is slightly dark and the gray is slightly light, but, they are "in the realm" as I say.
It runs extremely well and the Loksound is great with the new (older GE) recording in it. The LED's all look good. It seems to pull very well. It might ride slightly high....maybe .015 and as already stated the wheel cables end before they get all the way up under the walkway.
I was not going to buy one as it is not one of my favorite engines and the buzz about the handrails was killing it for me. I got a great deal on it and I am very glad I bought. It will weather up nicely.
All in all, I think Rivarossi is on the right track with this unit.
Keith Turley
Monrovia, California
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 21, 2014 12:39:01 GMT -8
Thanks, guys, about the Q unit. It's really unusual to have an exact match for colors between manufacturers, so "in the realm" might work out for me.
I'm still hoping to hear similar news about the NP unit.
Ed
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Post by thebessemerkid on Oct 21, 2014 15:23:18 GMT -8
Just out of curiosity, were the NP colors on the original AHM/Rivarossi U25C's accurate? Never did see a real NP Black/Yellow unit in service, but always thought the old Uboats looked sharp.
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Post by Chad on Oct 21, 2014 17:43:31 GMT -8
Thanks, guys, about the Q unit. It's really unusual to have an exact match for colors between manufacturers, so "in the realm" might work out for me. I'm still hoping to hear similar news about the NP unit. Ed Not sure this will help because of the difference with my photos and real life. But.................  And for what it's worth, I REALLY like my U25C. Looks, running, sound everything. I can only hope Rivarossi does more US models and would be nice if they were odd ball units. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 17:52:17 GMT -8
Just out of curiosity, were the NP colors on the original AHM/Rivarossi U25C's accurate? Never did see a real NP Black/Yellow unit in service, but always thought the old Uboats looked sharp. I eBay'd my 30 year-old AHM NP U25C last year as soon as rumor surfaced about a new model in the works. As I recall, the yellow was a little too ochre/dark. The black and red were right-on. |
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Post by jbilbrey on Oct 21, 2014 20:09:28 GMT -8
My recollection is U25's and later U-boats (28,30,33 & 36) had a decidedly different 'look' but never thought about it in depth. Are there notable physical differences between say Atlas and P2K U28/30B's? There are several subtle and not so subtle differences between the U25's [and early U28's] and later U23/later 28/30/33/36's that have always jumped out at me when looking at them. The hood ends on the early U-Boats had a subtle taper toward the top. This taper is apparent if one looks at the erection photo of one of ESPEE's TE-70-4S; one can see the "kink" between the original hood and the extension added by M-K. The U25B had a much longer nose than the later 4-axle U-Boats. And, the nose appeared lower height-wise as well, with a larger area for the front windshield. The fuel tanks had a slightly different profile as well. I cannot remember seeing any comparisons between the Atlas and P2K U28/30B's. However, the P2K U28/30B rode a little higher above the rails, and P2K made up for the extra height by shortening the height of the cab and hood. This was something talked about on the old Atlas Forum. I imagine that the Atlas U30B probably follows in the footsteps of the U23B in being more correct in these two dimensions. James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN |
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Post by craigz on Oct 22, 2014 9:26:24 GMT -8
I have one here on my bench and as a Burlington Modeler....I like it. As an extreme rivet counter, I find very little fault with it. The handrail issue is no problem. The stanchions are correct, straight, and the paint matches the body. The handrails that are square instead of round are hardly noticeable. In fact, I am surprised about good the handrails look. The photos on the net do not do it justice on the colors.......the red is slightly dark and the gray is slightly light, but, they are "in the realm" as I say. It runs extremely well and the Loksound is great with the new (older GE) recording in it. The LED's all look good. It seems to pull very well. It might ride slightly high....maybe .015 and as already stated the wheel cables end before they get all the way up under the walkway. I was not going to buy one as it is not one of my favorite engines and the buzz about the handrails was killing it for me. I got a great deal on it and I am very glad I bought. It will weather up nicely. All in all, I think Rivarossi is on the right track with this unit. Keith Turley Monrovia, California Keith, I snagged an Atlantic Coast Line model and have to agree with your analysis. The cab number is a bit large; the herald a bit small but easy to fix. And your comments about the handrails are spot on. The flat handrails are simply a non issue now. As first shown they were fat; Rivarossi listened and changed them. Tip for coupler install: The draft gear. It's weird. The standard knuckle uses a plastic leaf spring to keep the knuckle closed. And the shank is about 25 thou thicker than a Kadee shank, which means the Kadee cannot be just dropped into the Riv box; it will flop up and down. And the frame's mount for the draft gear box is too narrow for a standard Kadee box. But, happily, a standard whisker coupler mounted in the 'narrow' #262 Kadee box slides right in, and measures up perfectly on the height gauge. Trim about 1.5mm off the front of the Kadee box and it's invisible. Very easy to do now that I figured it out  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2014 11:59:39 GMT -8
I used the same Kadee 262 box as well. The 262 is my go-to standard box for just about all applications. The narrow box looks very nice on a freight or passenger car or the front of a cab unit It leaves room for air, signal or steam lines. Keith Turley Monrovia, California  |
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Post by Spikre on Oct 22, 2014 12:41:13 GMT -8
somewhere here mixed in with all the other treasures is an Original Rivo Burlington U25C shell. the colors looked good for the units seen in Nebraska circa 69/70. not sure if this was an original 60s shell or an 80s rerun shell. got it about 95,it still had the blackened stamped steel handrails if that's any clue to its age ? the 1st one here was a mid 70s L&N shell,the Gray on that looked a bit lite,but it was stripped long before the Q shell arrived here, so not sure if the same shade of Gray was used? the L&N also had the 70s Round Rivo can motor,similar to the motor used in the Hiesler. one very odd Part was the Drive Axle,it was solid brass and had the gear as a Solid center part,the wheels had plastic centers and were pressed on to the axle assembly. think that the 60/70s E8s also used a similar drive gear. am about half way to converting the wheels to RP25s,but cutting the gear off and drilling it was a true PITA !! Spikre 
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 22, 2014 13:41:42 GMT -8
Just out of curiosity, were the NP colors on the original AHM/Rivarossi U25C's accurate? Never did see a real NP Black/Yellow unit in service, but always thought the old Uboats looked sharp. I'm comparing an AHM NP U25C with an NP color drift card. I would say the colors are correct, EXCEPT the imitation gold looks faded, as opposed to a more intense as-delivered shade. The lettering could use replacement, though. I intend to do a "little" work on mine and run it as a phase II, as opposed to the possible purchase of the phase IIIb of the current issue. Mine happens to be unpowered, so running it in consist with other locos will be easy. Ed |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 22, 2014 14:08:41 GMT -8
Chad, Thanks for the photo. The nose looks pretty yellow, rather than imitation golden. I see that also in the Hornby catalog shot. Is it truly as yellow as your photo shows? After studying a variety of photos of the Q and the NP units, it looks like Hornby didn't take paint matching seriously. It does look, though, like they got the ACL and PRR units about right--black and almost black--how hard can it be? ? Ed |
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Post by Chad on Oct 22, 2014 15:51:18 GMT -8
Chad, Thanks for the photo. The nose looks pretty yellow, rather than imitation golden. I see that also in the Hornby catalog shot. Is it truly as yellow as your photo shows? After studying a variety of photos of the Q and the NP units, it looks like Hornby didn't take paint matching seriously. It does look, though, like they got the ACL and PRR units about right--black and almost black--how hard can it be? ? Ed Ed, I took a look at the model again in different lighting conditions and it does look like it is a little to yellow when I look at prototype pictures on the web. Seems as if it could have used a bit more red in the paint. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 22, 2014 16:25:44 GMT -8
Chad, I wanted to pick up a couple of NP units and a Q one and patch them to run as BN units in the summer of 1970. Sorta like this:  When I noticed the NP "yellow" might be a bit off, I thought I'd back the NP count down to one and spray it with a tannish bit of weathering, so as to bias the "yellow" more towards the tan-red side. But then I looked at how far off the Q one is, and decided that I'll likely wait for them to correct the colors. THAT probably will never happen. I'll probably pick up a BN (green) one when they show. The real green did seem to wander a bit, so even if they get it wrong, it'll still probably look OK. Thanks again for posting the pic, Ed |
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Post by theengineshed on Oct 22, 2014 17:14:46 GMT -8
After studying a variety of photos of the Q and the NP units, it looks like Hornby didn't take paint matching seriously. It does look, though, like they got the ACL and PRR units about right--black and almost black--how hard can it be? ? I had decided a couple of nights back that the "artwork" might have been Hornby's weakness with the U25C. Ordered a ACL decal set, the pilot stripes are getting replaced and probably the numbers as well. The ACL monogram on the cab side measures out at 19-20" should be 22", it isn't off by much. One of the pair that came in the mail has a very smooth mech, the second wasn't as quiet, had a slight whine on the rollers. After about 30 minutes in each direction the sound improved. You would not have heard the whine over the noise maker, not an issue, just an observation. Both are very smooth runners. The drop steps, don't, on my pair. They don't drop below about 45 degrees without force, I tried forcing one, and it separated. Not a big deal, I'm going to file the offending bit off, then glue them all in the down position. One missed opportunity was with the dynamic brake grids. They are a separate etch behind the radiator grill etch. They look fantastic from inside the shell looking out. Tried to gently push one set out, they weren't budging, glued in place quite well. I don't know whether the factory glued the etches in place, then painted, or applied them as painted parts. On the dark hood paint schemes, ACL, NP, PRR, if the DB grids had been painted grey, they would have been more visible behind the darker radiator grill. The DB grids would have been grey when the locomotives left GE... Quite pleased, folks on the ACL/SAL/SCL modellers list seemed to be too, the the lettering is close enough for most, to be honest I could live with it as is, its nothing egregious, at least as far and the ACL scheme. The lighting is really top notch, puts the competition to shame. Hopefully Hornby will decide that these have sold well, do a second run, and then decide to announce another locomotive. |
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Post by keystonefarm on Oct 24, 2014 13:06:53 GMT -8
I have been testing my 2 PRR U-25c's . They have to be one of the quietest smoothest running locos out of the box that I have ever purchased. The Lok Sound GE sound is great enough that I intend to replace the Soundtraxx TSU's in my other GE units with Lok sound. Sounds more like a GE than the TSU and has much much better slow speed motor control than the TSU. When the next run which I believe will have the Penn Central units in it becomes available I intend to get both of those units. Hopefully Hornby/Rivarossi will be happy with the sales of this units and look at other opportunities in the American HO scale diesel market.
-------------------- Ken McCorry
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Post by wmcbride on Oct 24, 2014 21:22:37 GMT -8
Chad,
Nice Flickr stream. Your SP units are so well done as is your layout. Do you ever miss N scale?
Bill McBride
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