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Post by kcjones on Sept 18, 2014 10:19:09 GMT -8
I was just looking through the latest Atlas fall catalog and spotted the MR&T heritage units. Didn't Athearn try this back in 2009 with their SD40-2 RTR? Did the Athearn unit sell ok? I'd still like to get my hands on an old Gorre and Dephited car or loco. Wouldn't mind a Utah Belt unit either. Way back when the per diem craze was going on, I use to trade boxcars with fellow modelers from everywhere. Example... I would trade a AV boxcar for lets say a Kentucky Southern boxcar. It was great back in the ol "shake the box" era. The Athearn blue box kits were perfect for this. Do private railroads [even famous ones] sell? I wonder what kind of response Atlas will get to the MR&T units? I am kinda partial to the blue and white units myself. I wonder why?
Joe Loggans Vancouver WA
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Post by peoriaman on Sept 19, 2014 5:56:39 GMT -8
Do private railroads [even famous ones] sell? I'm thinking not.
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TA462
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Posts: 88
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Post by TA462 on Sept 19, 2014 6:01:23 GMT -8
The Athearn SD40-2's we for Model Railroader magazines 75TH Anniversary. Athearn did a truck and a boxcar too. Rapido did a passenger car. I have the Ford truck, the boxcar and the Rapido coach, I never cared for Athearn's RTR locomotives so I never got one.
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TA462
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Post by TA462 on Sept 19, 2014 6:03:47 GMT -8
Do private railroads [even famous ones] sell? I'm thinking not. The passenger car and the truck I bought were deeply discounted, the boxcar wasn't. I agree there is a very limited appeal for private railroads.
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Post by Spikre on Sept 19, 2014 11:16:34 GMT -8
have some Allegheny Southern and Ohio Southern hoppers here. but they were about the same price as regular McKean or Train Minature of Illinios cars around 1980. have some Atlas 75th Aniversery 60' high cube boxes,and a caboose, but havnt found the RS-3 at a show yet. but have passed on gaudy layout type boxcars and reefers. guess it just depends on the mood,or what is at a show ? Spikre
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Post by iccn1000 on Sept 19, 2014 13:03:22 GMT -8
Wonder how those FVM Gevos sold for V&O. We sold 2 sets.. Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.com
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Post by riogrande on Sept 19, 2014 14:50:08 GMT -8
I've always wondered at the appeal to offering trains named after model companies or fantasy railroads. Neither ever appealed to me as I prefer to model after real railroads. Different strokes for different folks. I can understand why these models may not sell well, but I don't know what actually happens.
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Post by emd16645 on Sept 19, 2014 15:04:00 GMT -8
Since I freelance, I feel there is room for equipment from other freelancers on my layout. There is a lot of great schemes out there. As long as it seems prototypical, I'm fine with it. I have no interest in all the advertising products that have been made (ie Coke, John Deere). I find these MRT units to be interesting, and would consider picking up a few.
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Post by kcjones on Sept 19, 2014 15:26:20 GMT -8
Chris, That brings me to my next question? For all the guys and gals out there that do freelance, just how "real" is your railroad? Some guys go all out [aka V&O,AM, Utah Belt] by modeling a railroad that could have really existed. Do you have a real history? Did you print up real timetables and switchlist? How about waybills? Did you put your railroad on a real map? Of course when freelancing you are able to warp history just a little bit. Even though ALCO went belly up in '69, MLW finished all the standing orders that they had or were cancelled at the end.
J Loggans Vancouver WA
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Post by drolsen on Sept 19, 2014 16:46:31 GMT -8
These "heritage" MRT units were the subject of an article in MR within the last year or so - one of the staff members custom painted them in the spirit of the UP and NS prototypes. Maybe MR got a lot of positive feedback from that article and talked Atlas into producing them.
Dave
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Post by carrman on Sept 19, 2014 19:58:00 GMT -8
I've always wondered at the appeal to offering trains named after model companies or fantasy railroads. Neither ever appealed to me as I prefer to model after real railroads. Different strokes for different folks. I can understand why these models may not sell well, but I don't know what actually happens. I know any of the locomotives that came off of Eric Broomans' Utah Belt sell for silly money on eBay. Maybe it because he actually built and ran them, I'm not sure. Dave
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TA462
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by TA462 on Sept 20, 2014 6:56:25 GMT -8
I've seen some of Eric's stuff go for BIG money. I think the MR&T Heritage Units is just a money grab for Model Railroad Magazine. They got to be getting something right? Maybe they think the popularity of MR will help them sell a few. It's a great idea if they sell. There 75TH Anniversary stuff didn't sell well where I live. I got the boxcar because there really is one painted like that but the passenger car was discounted to 20 bucks, I bought two of them for a future project. Rapido passenger cars for 20 bucks don't come along every day, lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 7:09:22 GMT -8
The MR&T Athearn SD40-2's were from about 2004-ish. They were paper weights. I bought mine for cents on the dollar from a retailer dumping them on e-Bay.
Mass produced home road cars and locomotives don't sell. Many years ago, Athearn rolled out a GP38-2 with bay window caboose set to commemorate Athearn's anniversary. You couldn't give those sets away. My friend had the misfortune of buying one of those sets for his store. The Athearn GP38-2/caboose set didn't sell until he had his going out of business sale and someone felt the price was low enough and bought it to strip and repaint.
The MR&T SD40-2's I bought were used to demo DCC decoders for the store. We sold them for cents on the dollar when the store closed.
The reason you see the eye popping numbers for extremely used Utah Belt rolling stock on e-Bay is because those locomotives and cars actually ran on the famous layout. If you were to have an Athearn, Atlas or other firm produce Utah Belt units at the factory for sale to the general public, the store's who stocked those things will be using them for door stops.
People may buy maybe a car or two of the old home road stuff, Gorre & Daphetid for nostalgia. But generally the stuff is nothing more than fodder to be stripped and repainted into something else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2014 7:15:44 GMT -8
I know any of the locomotives that came off of Eric Broomans' Utah Belt sell for silly money on eBay. Maybe it because he actually built and ran them, I'm not sure. Dave Bingo! Stuff that was actually owned and ran on the famous layouts is what is collectible. Something made in a factory in China with the famous model railroad name on its side is unsellable. When the price gets so low, that a person can't resist, its usually destined to be made into something else.
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Post by valenciajim on Sept 20, 2014 10:38:23 GMT -8
The MDC Gorre & Daphetid stuff sells well, basewd on my understanding.
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Post by kcjones on Sept 20, 2014 12:37:05 GMT -8
Mr TA462, I'm kinda wondering the same thing. I have tried to contact Rob at Atlas with no luck. I just want to know who's idea it was to do the MR&T units. I have no say so in this matter, but after 30 years I'm a little cheesed that the blue and white is going public. I refer everyone to the April issue of MR.
J Loggans Vancouver. WA
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Post by emd16645 on Sept 20, 2014 15:39:24 GMT -8
Chris, That brings me to my next question? For all the guys and gals out there that do freelance, just how "real" is your railroad? Some guys go all out [aka V&O,AM, Utah Belt] by modeling a railroad that could have really existed. Do you have a real history? Did you print up real timetables and switchlist? How about waybills? Did you put your railroad on a real map? Of course when freelancing you are able to warp history just a little bit. Even though ALCO went belly up in '69, MLW finished all the standing orders that they had or were cancelled at the end. J Loggans Vancouver WA Mr. Loggans, You have some very valid questions. I won't speak for others, but I can answer your questions for my situation. My freelanced road is the Eastern Alaska and Yukon. I started developing the concept during the summer of 2006. That summer I had an internship where I was working along the south coast of Alaska. During my time there I got to see the Alaska Railroad on a fairly regular basis. Once I saw the scenery there, that's what I knew I wanted to model. After considering modelling the Alaska itself, I decided that my better option was to model a connecting line from the Alaska to the lower 48. Thus the EAY was born. While still in Alaska, I borrowed a Delorme atlas of Alaska and photocopied the areas to the northeast of Anchorage. This allowed me to map out the Alaska subdivision of the EAY. Since 2006 I've spent a fair amount of time developing a history and operation concept behind the line. As things stand right now, the EAY isn't much more than a paper railroad, in the sense that I haven't had the space to build the layout that will express my vision of the railroad. I'm hoping to start on that in the next few years. In the meantime I have been working on building a model roster so once the layout is built I can begin operations. As far as things go like switchlists and waybills, those will come in time once I know what my operations will actually look like.
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Post by Brakie on Sept 20, 2014 16:17:57 GMT -8
I've always wondered at the appeal to offering trains named after model companies or fantasy railroads. Neither ever appealed to me as I prefer to model after real railroads. Different strokes for different folks. I can understand why these models may not sell well, but I don't know what actually happens. Jim,There are guides lines to follow when freelancing a railroad these lessons can be seen in the V&O,AM,Utah Belt,Maumee Valley and other famous freelance railroads.MR&T follows these lessons. As far as Athearn's MR&T SD40-2 there are extremely hard to find and requires a higher then normal used price.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 20, 2014 17:59:26 GMT -8
I feel that this is a VERY DELICATE QUESTION.
Meaning, that I honor the guys and gals who have built a "railroad" that touches me. There's John Allen. And the Delta Lines, back in the days. And I love them. And.......
BUT.
Is there a way to sell me a piece of rolling stock that is reminiscent of those model railroads?
There is a very big question.
I WOULD buy. But "you" have to touch my heart.
And, good luck with that.
Ed
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Post by atsfan on Sept 20, 2014 18:35:39 GMT -8
Atlas must make money on these types as they keep making small railroad paint jobs.
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Post by kcjones on Sept 20, 2014 19:31:55 GMT -8
Chris, Your situation is almost identical to mine. Back in '79 I was hired by the ICG RR in NOLA. I didn't have room for a layout so I joined the local train club; the CCMRC. I had spent a short time growing up in Arkansas and spent time in the Ozarks and around Hot Springs. With the wealth of material at the ICG [before the internet], I was able to "create" the Arkansas Valley from the ground up. I copied ICG waybills, switchlist, train orders,etc. but with the AV name on them. I made a roster [mostly ALCO's] and then put it on the map. Turned out to look almost like the "little" Rock Island. I thought that the AV name was unique until I was reading about the history of the Kansas and Pacific. They created a subsidiary to reach Pueblo CO. called the Arkansas Valley RailWAY. The people of Pueblo went with the Santa Fe and the AV died. My favorite color is blue and I went nuts when Conrail was formed. I wanted my scheme to be unique but easy to paint. I liked the RI bankrupt blue scheme but it would require way to much masking. Idea.. make the whole cab white and the rest of the engine a deep blue. The Arkansas Valley Railroad was born. My original scheme is in the April '81 issue of MR on the 25th anniversary of the CCMRC. I went a little overboard though. I even had t-shirts, coffee cups and baseball hats made to give to all my friends. I've got one hat left. After moving to Vancouver, I bought a house and was able to finally build a layout in a spare room 12x13. This layout is what you see in SPF.
Ed... I had fiends down in New Orleans that had the honor of running trains on the "Delta Lines". That would be something to have a car from the DL on the layout.
J Loggans Vancouver WA
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Post by edwardsutorik on Sept 20, 2014 20:03:09 GMT -8
I had fiends down in New Orleans that had the honor of running trains on the "Delta Lines". That would be something to have a car from the DL on the layout. Yeah, That would, indeed. I think it would be tricky to pull off. As a re-creation. I think the original graphics might feel a bit "clunky"--these days. I think I'd like to see it done as an IPD kind of car. "Youse guys know what I'm talkin' about." Ed
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Post by mlehman on Sept 21, 2014 14:09:50 GMT -8
SNIP I had fiends down in New Orleans that had the honor of running trains on the "Delta Lines". That would be something to have a car from the DL on the layout. J Loggans Vancouver WA Model railroad fiends in NOLA? I'll bet that's a pretty rough crowd...I'm envious. But seriously, J, I actually did start a lengthy reply to your questions and my computer ate it, so got discouraged, especially after the power failed here for about 5 hours later yesterday...it was an omen of sumtin'...but you asked a related question in SPF and maybe I can resurrect some of my thoughts... My layout focuses on the Silverton Branch of the Rio Grande from Durango to Silverton, and onto the three "little lines" that ran north from Silverton. I also have staging to Chama to represent the old NG main and west on the RGS. Pretty good job to squeeze all that in in 28' x 16' but there's also a big dogbone, half-hidden, of standard gauge track serving a dual-gauge Durango. When I started serious planning on it in the early 90s many NGers anticipated then need to build everything, so often included a SG interchange or line just so they could have running trains quickly. 20 years later, there was Blackstone, so not so prevalent if you just want to model NG now that there's HOn3 RTR. I say all that because I really jammed a lot of action into this lifetime layout's design. While NG and SG Rio Grande stuff is related, even intertwined, they are obviously physically separate and distinct as if modeling two different prototypes. My only concession here was I don't do SG Rio Grande steam...however, if Blackstone ever does their rumored SG C-48, I will make an exception. All this to say that I'm very much a prototype modeler, despite having a layout that plays fast and loose with actual history. Things have to seem right, at least at first, and it's only when you get to thinking about it do you start to think, "But no...?!?" But I'm not baiting rivet-counters, bless their OCD hearts, it's just the way I do things. I pretty much know the way the prototype did things, I'm simply bending things to my taste in my modeling. Mostly, the closer it is to the track, the more closely it adheres to prototype practice...but not always, for instance more of our modern diesel motive power... Here's an example of something that's not real, but certainly fits. This is one of my "pole cars" based on the steel flatcars the Rio Grande built. I simply added some log bunks to PSC kits and numbered them in the prototype's empty spots in the range just above the existing cars. It looks right to me. Speaking of the pole cars, they serve traffic on the new Cascade branch. The rest of the layout actually went places where there were tracks on the ground at least at one time. There is some topography starting at Tefft that follows upward to the west that may or may not be RR-suitable, but I've just overlooked that if it isn't -- it's my "imaginary" branch, added to generate logging, quarry traffic, maybe some oilfields, who knows? It's also designed to get a couple of operators out of the main layout room giving everyone a little more elbow room. That's just a few examples of how real-world things like space, time, and money can intrude even if someone wants to subscribe to a strict prototype modeling regime. I take things and roll with the punches without letting it get me down.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Sept 21, 2014 20:23:12 GMT -8
Famous model railroad locos or passenger cars are something that I would not buy. However, famous model railroad freight cars? Yeah, I'd be interested if it fit my era and location (and my definition of realistic). An AM hopper car would be neat to have, or a Maumee boxcar. Stuff like that. But then I also buy club cars from layouts I've visited as some of them are quite nice.
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Post by umtrrauthor on Sept 22, 2014 13:11:22 GMT -8
The NMRA did a whole series of "Heritage" cars in HO Scale as well as N Scale. All but the last N Scale one were Micro-Trains Special Runs. I think the HO Scale cars were from differing brands depending on the car. First of the series was the Gorre & Daphetid. Delta Lines may have been the second release.
They also did a few "Living Legends" the first of which was for John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern. He was still alive at the time. I had him autograph the box insert liner of my N Scale copy. The V&O and AM were included in the Living Legends series.
The fate of the Heritage and Living Legends series was mixed for the N Scale versions... remaining stock was quietly blown out, at the end down to something like $5 per car, which really annoyed those who paid full boat ($20 and up plus shipping, plus you had to belong to the NMRA). I'm not sure what happened to the HO versions.
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