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Post by steveturner on Oct 11, 2014 10:17:43 GMT -8
Kind a lost on this but have tried to read up on it. I would like F9 tobe number board LEDs and F10 to be class LEDS. Could someone with remap knowhow tell which Cvs and entries to make. For whatever reason cannot get at this moment the ESU decoder for my Rapido GM1 so I have one of these decoders.The mother board from what I see has 1800 ohm surface mount resistors on it so I am good that way. Just need the info to remap. Thanks Steve.................maybe Mark might chime in he is very good at this stuff! My first 21 pin job.................I have 20 other 8 pin decoders on the shelf ready to use but never had a 21 pin.
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 11, 2014 17:37:32 GMT -8
So, what you are wanting is to remap the TCS decoder to match the Loksound decoder ? What functions are they currently on in the TCS decoder ?
Mark.
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Post by steveturner on Oct 11, 2014 21:29:32 GMT -8
Thanks for replying Mark.Should have decoder Monday.I was doing some home work and prep but i guess we will need to know the present functions that turn those lights on. Hope once i get this decoder it runs a bit better after the issues i had with the other unit, you were helping with. In terms of down the road with other units and 21 pin boards do you thing the NMRA 8 pin to 21 pin adaptor ok depending what you are doing in terms of functions? I ask this because i would like to use up my TCS 8 pin decoders.Thanks Steve
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 12, 2014 9:23:43 GMT -8
There are a few sources that make the 21 pin to 8 pin adaptor and should work just fine for using up your inventory ....  Mark. |
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Post by steveturner on Oct 16, 2014 10:13:46 GMT -8
Mark i installed the TCS Eu621...........fumbled my way through with decoder pro to remap class lights from F1 to F10 but I could not get number boards to light up on any F key to see what activated them??. Help please. I need them on F9 but I have nothing.
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 16, 2014 13:51:23 GMT -8
Did you try all the functions BEFORE you mapped anything ? There ARE separate lights in the number boards that are connected to the mother board ?
Mark.
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Post by steveturner on Oct 16, 2014 14:02:51 GMT -8
Did that Mark as that's how I found the original F for class lights. Decoder from start up no F will light the number boards.................pulled the decoder and tried the loksound board to make sure LEDs fine ,all ok. So I have no F button that will light number boards on EU 621.Can I assume the output on mother board not linked to an F on EU 621?. How do I get around this?.Thanks Steve
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 16, 2014 14:07:42 GMT -8
The problem isn't the mother board if the ESU decoder operated them correctly. What function on the ESU decoder controlled the number boards ?
Mark.
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 16, 2014 14:31:22 GMT -8
If this is an InterMountain engine, the number boards are attached to the rear headlight function. Turn the headlight on and put it in reverse to see if the number boards light up ....
Mark.
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Post by steveturner on Oct 16, 2014 15:00:51 GMT -8
Mark Rapido GMD1 with F9 for number boards on ESU decoder. Steve
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Post by steveturner on Oct 16, 2014 15:34:31 GMT -8
Mark the board , I think you might make it out.Steve [a href="http://  "]link[/a] |
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 16, 2014 15:57:55 GMT -8
What are the number boards attached to ?
Mark.
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Post by steveturner on Oct 16, 2014 16:25:24 GMT -8
Mark I am stumped.Took Led cover off and I cannot tell which wire goes to what LED, small black board cannot follow tracers and as you see all wires black Front led, 2 marker light leds and 2 number board leds. Bit lost now.Steve
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 16, 2014 19:11:15 GMT -8
I have a hunch what it is Steve, but let me verify my thoughts first with somebody more in the know ....
Mark.
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Post by steveturner on Oct 16, 2014 20:01:53 GMT -8
Suspense................am i out of luck! Hope not.Thanks for helping out Mark.Steve
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 16, 2014 22:02:24 GMT -8
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Post by steveturner on Oct 16, 2014 23:12:39 GMT -8
So headlights , marker lights but no remapping of number lights too bad. I thought with resistors on ESU we were home free. If i managed some how to figure out the number board wire could i double up on say the front lights or swap out marker lights or number lights. i would rather have number lights than marker lights.Just a thought .Steve
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 17, 2014 7:32:11 GMT -8
The whole thing would work as expected if you had gotten the ESU non-sound decoder. TCS has elected to make all the outputs on their 21-pin decoder line level as opposed to the industry standard of the first four being line level and the rest being logic level. Now that being said, basing on your picture, I would guess the number boards are attached to AUX3 as the TCS decoder is supposed to be sending a logic level to the main board for AUX3. RL is probably the headlight and AUX1 is the class lights. That means AUX2 is not being used and would have the correct line level to the pin from the TCS decoder. The mystery is going to be, where is it on the motherboard ? The chart on this page shows the pin-out for the standard 21-pin plug .... www.opendcc.de/info/decoder/schnittstellen_e.htmlAUX 2 from the TCS decoder would be on pin 14 which should to a resistored pad on the board somewhere. I was informed of this potential problem about a year or more ago. ESU TOLD TCS about how the industry standard wiring is configured on the 21-pin plug. These plugs have been in use in Europe since 2005, and they DO have a standard configuration. TCS for some reason elected not to follow that standard and have created a six function decoder where only four functions will ever work - F0F / F0R / AUX1 / AUX2. Being line level outputs on the TCS decoder, AUX3 and AUX4 will not work. Mark. |
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Post by steveturner on Oct 17, 2014 8:28:38 GMT -8
Thanks Mark.............curiosity got me.I took the led housing off of the other end where it covers part of mother board....Aux 1 and 4 are up in the corner on end with wires to leds to that end of loco.So if i was brave and reversed Aux 4 and 2 wires at one end and Aux 1 and 3 wires at the other i could have number boards and no class lights?. Steve.............thanks for diagram, nice info.
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 17, 2014 9:05:10 GMT -8
Is there anything currently connected to AUX1 and AUX4 ? If you could post a picture, that would be great. If there is nothing currently connected to AUX1 or AUX4, then moving the wire from AUX3 to the unused AUX2 pad should allow the TCS decoder to access it.
Scratch that. I think I may have your answer once you verify what is attached to AUX2 and AUX4 ....
Mark.
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Post by steveturner on Oct 17, 2014 9:13:21 GMT -8
Just got e mail from Rapido.............number boards according to their drawings are Aux 3 and 4.You were correct on the Aux 3 with the Aux 4 as i mentioned hidden and Aux 2 also hidden at other end of board i guess is the marker lights as is probably Aux 1. So unless this changes the oicture but probably not i can swop those wires around with a steady hand and magnifier or leave alone with no number boards or await an ESu board.
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Post by steveturner on Oct 17, 2014 9:26:35 GMT -8
Mark the pins [a href="http://  "]link[/a] |
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 17, 2014 10:59:19 GMT -8
Ok Steve, I believe I got it figured out. Acording the the GMD-1 file .... - Front class lights are on AUX2 - Rear class lights are on AUX1 - Front number boards are on AUX4 - Rear number boards are on AUX3 Both AUX1 and AUX2 are controlled by F10 and AUX3 and AUX4 are controlled by F9. I don't understand why they combined two AUX outputs to a single function, but that will benefit us in our conversion here .... Now, keeping in mind the TCS decoder cannot control AUX3 or AUX4, we need to utilize only AUX1 and AUX2. My recommendation would be as follows - if you can manage some fine soldering. IF you can't, please don't attempt this. Move the wire currently on AUX2 and pair it with the wire currently on AUX1 - so now both of these wires will be connected to AUX1 (both class light sets) and will be controlled by F9. Now take the wires from AUX3 and AUX4 (both number board sets which the TCS decoder cannot control) and attach them both to the AUX2 pad which will be controlled by F10. Again, you're in for some fine work here, and you may have to lengthen a couple wires if there isn't enough slack to relocate them, but this conversion "works on paper". This type of conversion may be frowned upon by Rapido if any warrantee work arises, so proceed at your own discretion, or just get the LokPilot decoder and be done with it.  Mark. |
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Post by steveturner on Oct 17, 2014 11:10:25 GMT -8
Mark! Going to try it.Use my iso fine tip cordless with new tip for the job. Cool hands will prevail..............rum and coke after if it works or a box of Kleenex if it doesn't.............not your theory but my sweaty hand LOL. Got some business todo but will report in once I have tried it............thank goodness for magnifier and sweat band HA!.If it works we will market it for all those other folks with GMD1 HA! Steve
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 17, 2014 11:19:04 GMT -8
If you are successful in getting the conversion complete, you will have to remap your decoder to activate the AUX2 on F10. By default, the TCS decoder will probably operate AUX2 from F2. I believe a value of 0 in CV36 and a value of 32 in CV38 should accomplish this.
Mark.
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Post by canrailfan on Oct 17, 2014 11:38:51 GMT -8
The Loksound decoder outputs a logic level (hi or lo, very small amount of current) signal on AUX3 and AUX4. This means that somewhere on the Rapido motherboard there is a circuit converting AUX3 and AUX4 to line level signals. The output of this circuit drives the number board lights
With the TCS decoder outputting a line level signal on AUX3 and AUX4, it cannot turn on the circuit for the number board lights. The circuits are incompatible.
Getting an ESU LokPilot decoder would solve your problem without getting into re-mapping functions, etc.
The TCS decoders will not be drop-in replacements for ESU decoders due to the way TCS designed AUX3 and AUX4.
David
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 17, 2014 11:47:17 GMT -8
The Loksound decoder outputs a logic level (hi or lo, very small amount of current) signal on AUX3 and AUX4. This means that somewhere on the Rapido motherboard there is a circuit converting AUX3 and AUX4 to line level signals. The output of this circuit drives the number board lights With the TCS decoder outputting a line level signal on AUX3 and AUX4, it cannot turn on the circuit for the number board lights. The circuits are incompatible. Getting an ESU LokPilot decoder would solve your problem without getting into re-mapping functions, etc. The TCS decoders will not be drop-in replacements for ESU decoders due to the way TCS designed AUX3 and AUX4. David Already went down that path if you read the entire thread .... Mark. |
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Post by steveturner on Oct 17, 2014 14:45:13 GMT -8
Mark !! We have lift off so far. Class lights show up on F1 need F10 and number boards show F10 i need F9 .Shall i change with decoder pro?.Thanks very much .Steve
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Post by steveturner on Oct 17, 2014 15:41:00 GMT -8
Mark! All is well. Programmed with decoder Pro. Number lights F9 and class lights F10. Thanks again...................hope others can use this impressive fix. Not too happy with TCS and Rapido for not testing out a decoder recommended in their manual. Steve
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Post by Mark R. on Oct 17, 2014 16:07:05 GMT -8
Glad to hear what looked good on paper actually worked out for you. At least we now have a reference that it does in fact work.
Mark.
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