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Post by thebessemerkid on Oct 13, 2014 6:46:20 GMT -8
Are all shows now requiring that vendors collect sales tax or is this just a Maryland thing? I can understand for new merchandise, but for used stuff? Are garage sales now taxed also? GSMTS rules
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Oct 13, 2014 7:59:36 GMT -8
That's government for ya!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2014 8:16:51 GMT -8
Most larger shows require dealers to have a sales tax id, if they don't, they must pay the show a fee based on some formula, which the show then pays the state.
My friend used to sell at the once large GATS show in Wheaton, Illinois (Chicago suburb). He had a tax id and collected tax and remitted it to the State of Illinois. The show twenty years ago began to require tax id's or remit some money which was forwarded to the state for sales tax. So sales tax at a train show is nothing really new.
Most dealers build the sales tax into their price.
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Post by valenciajim on Oct 13, 2014 8:44:34 GMT -8
When the NMRA convention was held in Sacramento, the People's Democratic Republic of CA required the train show vendors to collect sales tax. They actually had sales and use tax authorities on site to enforce it.
Sales tax is supposed to be collected on all sales whether or not the merchandise is new. In most states, if you you sell more than three items of merchandise in a calendar year, you are required to charge and remit sales tax. Obviously, there are no garage sale police, but when there is an event like a train show that is heavily advertised, the tax authories figure out that there are taxes to be paid.
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Post by dti406 on Oct 13, 2014 8:53:11 GMT -8
Most dealers build the sales tax into their price. Must be why that guy was trying to sell his Tyco Hopper Cars for $7.50 apiece at the Cleveland show last week, my friend was trying to sell his for $0.75 and left will all of them that he brought. Since I fill out use tax returns all over the country, that multitude of tax rates and enforcement is getting worse and worse every year. Rick J
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Post by thebessemerkid on Oct 13, 2014 8:57:57 GMT -8
Seems like a good reason to move the show to Delaware. (or NH, MT, Oregon. .. state tax rates hereI thought about selling a few things to defray the cost of the trip. Since I would already be paying food and lodging taxes, this additional nuisance bite is enough to make me reconsider going at all. I was poking around the net on train show taxes, and found this gem in arguably the most mind-numbingly verbose post in railroading history, which contained this gem: trainweb.org/lfnwfan/html/Sociology.htm
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Post by atsfan on Oct 13, 2014 9:40:20 GMT -8
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Post by atsfan on Oct 13, 2014 9:41:22 GMT -8
Most dealers build the sales tax into their price. Must be why that guy was trying to sell his Tyco Hopper Cars for $7.50 apiece at the Cleveland show last week, my friend was trying to sell his for $0.75 and left will all of them that he brought. Since I fill out use tax returns all over the country, that multitude of tax rates and enforcement is getting worse and worse every year. Rick J People always think any old train is worth a fortune.
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Post by curtmc on Oct 13, 2014 9:42:50 GMT -8
It's not that big of a deal... Most sellers just include the tax in the marked price, especially for cash sales.
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Post by mlehman on Oct 13, 2014 10:52:26 GMT -8
It's not that big of a deal... Most sellers just include the tax in the marked price, especially for cash sales. Yeah, taxes are pretty much inevitable. Enforcement can be highly variable and even how much you might owe unclear. As a justice on the Supreme Court once said, it's no crime to arrange to have your taxes be as low as legally possible. On the other hand, people do game the system. Mail order is probably the best example, although you technically still owe them in your jurisdiction if you don't pay them elsewhere. Heck in some cases, you may owe the difference if out-of-state had lower taxes you paid than you'd pay at home.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Oct 14, 2014 8:11:22 GMT -8
It is illegal to include the tax in the asking price, at least in Massachusetts. I've been a brick & mortar retailer for 25 years, and a train show dealer for over 20 here in this State, so I'm all too familiar with our tax laws. OTOH, we don't tax food, clothing or periodicals (magazines, newspapers, etc.). BessemerKid, did you know that Bruce (of "Sociology" infamy) used to post on the old Atlas Forum? Yep, he tried to get David Owens fired from his job as a newspaper reporter for posting during working hours and then publically questioned the faith of a couple posters we had who were reverends in "real life(tm)". A real piece of work.
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Post by bnsf971 on Oct 14, 2014 8:19:50 GMT -8
I Hope it has changed, but one state I resided in expected residents to keep track of all items purchased out of state, and pay state sales tax on those items, whether you had already paid sales tax on the items or not. It was a real headache for anybody that wanted to follow the law, especially in one town that straddled the state line. You could walk across the street and be in another state, and that is where the only grocery store in town was. Of course, I could probably count on two fingers all the people that followed that law...
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Post by Gary P on Oct 14, 2014 9:16:00 GMT -8
I Hope it has changed, but one state I resided in expected residents to keep track of all items purchased out of state, and pay state sales tax on those items, whether you had already paid sales tax on the items or not. It was a real headache for anybody that wanted to follow the law, especially in one town that straddled the state line. You could walk across the street and be in another state, and that is where the only grocery store in town was. Of course, I could probably count on two fingers all the people that followed that law... I'm pretty sure that is the way it is in New York.... figures!
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Post by thebessemerkid on Oct 14, 2014 10:53:41 GMT -8
...BessemerKid, did you know that Bruce (of "Sociology" infamy) used to post on the old Atlas Forum? Yep, he tried to get David Owens fired from his job as a newspaper reporter for posting during working hours and then publically questioned the faith of a couple posters we had who were reverends in "real life(tm)". A real piece of work. I was not aware of that. I was unable to make it through his rambling, incoherent piece ("sociology...") but did gather that for some reason he seems quite angry with the world. If his modeling was good, it might have made reading all of it worthwhile, alas...
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Post by carrman on Oct 14, 2014 11:38:33 GMT -8
...BessemerKid, did you know that Bruce (of "Sociology" infamy) used to post on the old Atlas Forum? Yep, he tried to get David Owens fired from his job as a newspaper reporter for posting during working hours and then publically questioned the faith of a couple posters we had who were reverends in "real life(tm)". A real piece of work. I was not aware of that. I was unable to make it through his rambling, incoherent piece ("sociology...") but did gather that for some reason he seems quite angry with the world. If his modeling was good, it might have made reading all of it worthwhile, alas... That would be why he's known on D-list as "Unabrucie". Because he likes publishing manifestos like the Unabomber. Dave
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Post by dti406 on Oct 14, 2014 11:52:10 GMT -8
It is illegal to include the tax in the asking price, at least in Massachusetts. I've been a brick & mortar retailer for 25 years, and a train show dealer for over 20 here in this State, so I'm all too familiar with our tax laws. OTOH, we don't tax food, clothing or periodicals (magazines, newspapers, etc.). Unless the tax laws in MA changed since I worked for Harley-Davidson, a single piece of clothing over $275.00 was taxable, I remember running a program we had to split the clothing items into under $275.00 and over $275.00 so the computer would tax those items over $275.00, and most of the leather clothing was well over $275.00. NY is similar but their single piece item is $109.00 Rick
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Post by atsfan on Oct 14, 2014 12:52:32 GMT -8
It is illegal to include the tax in the asking price, at least in Massachusetts. I've been a brick & mortar retailer for 25 years, and a train show dealer for over 20 here in this State, so I'm all too familiar with our tax laws. OTOH, we don't tax food, clothing or periodicals (magazines, newspapers, etc.). BessemerKid, did you know that Bruce (of "Sociology" infamy) used to post on the old Atlas Forum? Yep, he tried to get David Owens fired from his job as a newspaper reporter for posting during working hours and then publically questioned the faith of a couple posters we had who were reverends in "real life(tm)". A real piece of work. That is in Taxachusetts. Other states not so.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Oct 14, 2014 15:37:27 GMT -8
Rick, Thanks for that. I've never sold an item of clothing that cost more than $50, let alone $275. atsfan, You say we're Taxachusetts, yet at least our sales tax is only 6.25%! There's at least 12 States that are higher. But I do support the idea that says that you can't include tax in the price. At least that way everyone knows the tax they're paying, it's not "hidden".
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Post by emd16645 on Oct 14, 2014 16:56:33 GMT -8
I Hope it has changed, but one state I resided in expected residents to keep track of all items purchased out of state, and pay state sales tax on those items, whether you had already paid sales tax on the items or not. It was a real headache for anybody that wanted to follow the law, especially in one town that straddled the state line. You could walk across the street and be in another state, and that is where the only grocery store in town was. Of course, I could probably count on two fingers all the people that followed that law... Welcome to the state of Maine! They fully expect their residents to do exactly that. They even have a special block on their tax forms. A few years ago they even sent a letter out to residents that implied they would be looking at credit card statements and such to determine out of state usage and tax accordingly. The letter allowed residents to "pay up", even though they had no legal ground to do anything of the sort. Can't exactly blame them though, there's a reason that there isn't a major store within 20-30 miles of the New Hampshire border.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 14, 2014 17:02:08 GMT -8
Rick, Thanks for that. I've never sold an item of clothing that cost more than $50, let alone $275. atsfan, You say we're Taxachusetts, yet at least our sales tax is only 6.25%! There's at least 12 States that are higher. But I do support the idea that says that you can't include tax in the price. At least that way everyone knows the tax they're paying, it's not "hidden". Sorry but I could not resist
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Post by spookyac47 on Oct 14, 2014 23:12:34 GMT -8
Are all shows now requiring that vendors collect sales tax or is this just a Maryland thing? I can understand for new merchandise, but for used stuff? Are garage sales now taxed also? GSMTS rulesMany, many years ago, when we still lived in Southern California and drive-in theaters still existed, we used to go to the swap meets that were held at them on weekends. When one entered the swap meet, in addition to paying a small entry fee, signs were posted and registration tables set up at the entrance for those who wished to sell at the swap meet. People had to have a tax ID to sell at the swap meet and provide that information to register to sell at the swap meet. They provided sheets with registration numbers on them that had to be attached to your space you were selling from. They had "enforcers" wandering the swap meet and they would randomly check folks for required paperwork, etc. We left So Cal during 1993 so would hate to see how it is now there . . .
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Post by atsfan on Oct 15, 2014 2:42:04 GMT -8
Are all shows now requiring that vendors collect sales tax or is this just a Maryland thing? I can understand for new merchandise, but for used stuff? Are garage sales now taxed also? GSMTS rulesMany, many years ago, when we still lived in Southern California and drive-in theaters still existed, we used to go to the swap meets that were held at them on weekends. When one entered the swap meet, in addition to paying a small entry fee, signs were posted and registration tables set up at the entrance for those who wished to sell at the swap meet. People had to have a tax ID to sell at the swap meet and provide that information to register to sell at the swap meet. They provided sheets with registration numbers on them that had to be attached to your space you were selling from. They had "enforcers" wandering the swap meet and they would randomly check folks for required paperwork, etc. We left So Cal during 1993 so would hate to see how it is now there . . . You would not recognize it.
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Post by WP 257 on Oct 15, 2014 14:07:55 GMT -8
At least one dealer who frequents Timonium openly brags about never reporting his sales tax--that it is merely "extra profit".
I heard same dealer make this statement openly at the Allentown train show, a number of years ago.
I also know that was a moderately prevalent theme amongst the dealers selling at both shows. The one who bragged about it was definitely not the only one not reporting. (One of my heavy hitter big spending friends used his "dealer" status in PA to never pay the tax, and knew which dealers went for that...)
Sometimes you can't pick your friends or don't know them nearly as well as you think you do--he subsequently went to jail for 100 counts or so of vehicle odometer fraud and I had to help his girlfriend liquidate his brass to pay for legal fees (he got about 38 cents on the dollar of current value at the time)...Needless to say I have not kept in touch with him much since.
MD should enforce it, or not enforce it, on all equally...
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Post by Brakie on Oct 15, 2014 15:38:53 GMT -8
MD should enforce it, or not enforce it, on all equally... ---------------------------------- If MD is like Ohio they're understaffed and therefore lacks any real on site enforcement and its luck of the draw or the infraction is reported.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 15, 2014 17:02:34 GMT -8
Are all shows now requiring that vendors collect sales tax or is this just a Maryland thing? I can understand for new merchandise, but for used stuff? Are garage sales now taxed also? GSMTS rulesMany, many years ago, when we still lived in Southern California and drive-in theaters still existed, we used to go to the swap meets that were held at them on weekends. When one entered the swap meet, in addition to paying a small entry fee, signs were posted and registration tables set up at the entrance for those who wished to sell at the swap meet. People had to have a tax ID to sell at the swap meet and provide that information to register to sell at the swap meet. They provided sheets with registration numbers on them that had to be attached to your space you were selling from. They had "enforcers" wandering the swap meet and they would randomly check folks for required paperwork, etc. We left So Cal during 1993 so would hate to see how it is now there . . . Were you on AC gunships in Vietnam?
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Post by umtrrauthor on Oct 22, 2014 11:03:54 GMT -8
I Hope it has changed, but one state I resided in expected residents to keep track of all items purchased out of state, and pay state sales tax on those items, whether you had already paid sales tax on the items or not. It was a real headache for anybody that wanted to follow the law, especially in one town that straddled the state line. You could walk across the street and be in another state, and that is where the only grocery store in town was. Of course, I could probably count on two fingers all the people that followed that law... I'm pretty sure that is the way it is in New York.... figures! That is exactly the way it is in New York. And it's assumed under the "Safe Harbor" provision of the tax law that you owe at least $5 in tax on out of state / out of county purchases... even if you have no income tax due!
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Post by atsfan on Oct 22, 2014 14:14:17 GMT -8
I'm pretty sure that is the way it is in New York.... figures! That is exactly the way it is in New York. And it's assumed under the "Safe Harbor" provision of the tax law that you owe at least $5 in tax on out of state / out of county purchases... even if you have no income tax due! Good reason to join the crowd moving out.
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Post by lvrr325 on Oct 23, 2014 10:26:12 GMT -8
It really varies with the state, the size of the event and/or who promotes it, and how likely it is to see sales tax people enforce the law. Plus at shows it will vary some with how the vendor wants to handle it, if he can bring in electronics that let him tack it on easily or not. I just include it in the price - you can do that in NY, but it's not legal to post a sign saying so (or so I have been told), figure that one out.
I do tons of shows in NY but have yet to see any enforcement folks, even doing a big show right in Albany; I carry my tax ID right in one of the boxes or in the car, I don't always remember to put it out. I just got a PA one so I can do a couple of shows there. But I did a couple of one shot shows in the Carolinas - a one day TTOS show in SC and a "Great Train Show" traveling show in NC, and they were pretty relaxed on that stuff. Which is a good thing, as that NC show was the worst two-day show I've ever done; I'm glad it was mostly just a fun thing to do as part of a vacation.
I've looked at doing Springfield, but the costs are way high and there's a lot of hassle to it, and as cutthroat as the business side is I suspect that unless I inherited a huge collection of stuff free I wouldn't make enough in actual profit to pay the overhead. They even regulate what you can use as a table cover there, it has to be non-flammable subject to a test by the fire department.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 24, 2014 18:19:06 GMT -8
Email says the show says the show is this weekend.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Oct 25, 2014 10:19:30 GMT -8
If anyone is going to Timonium, can you see if spring mills depot is there and what their new products are?
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