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Post by lvrr325 on Oct 20, 2014 9:44:47 GMT -8
The Globe/Athearn shell was so good at the time it was essentially cloned for the Mantua/Tyco F-unit and then later the Penn Line F-unit, which ended up being a Life-Like product.
I think the Cox F3 is another clone but with altered details, because the Cox low-nose Geep is also essentially a clone of Athearn, except with the low nose (Walthers ended up with that one, too).
That I know of Revell never sold any Athearn items, although they did sell a sligthly modified Varney dockside as their own. Lionel is who sold Athearn as their trains in 1958 and sold leftovers into the 1960s. Revell had it's own F9a locomotive with distinctive tooling and a drive with a shaft from rear truck to front, similar to some Marx engines.
Hard to hate on it given it served a purpose of bringing affordable, decent quality trains to so many people for so many years.
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Post by Brakie on Oct 20, 2014 10:37:54 GMT -8
The Globe/Athearn shell was so good at the time it was essentially cloned for the Mantua/Tyco F-unit and then later the Penn Line F-unit, which ended up being a Life-Like product. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Absolutely and I will add Athearn GP7 was the best detailed shell of the time.
Also,the Cox low nose GP7 shell would fit the Athearn drive.
I will also mention a lot of guys turned those Cox geeps into GP20s with lots of work and when equipped with Athearns 8 wheel gear drive or the preferred Hobbytown GP7/9 drive it looked and ran better then Tenshado's GP20..
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Post by catt on Oct 20, 2014 16:49:50 GMT -8
Revell was only one of the companies that used Athearn tooling/parts.But even more of their stuff was cloned (sometimes rather poorly) by a lot of manufacturers.
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Post by bar on Oct 21, 2014 5:31:09 GMT -8
I still have the Cox PA-1 made by Athearn in Daylight colors. That color scheme is so striking most people don't nitpick the shell from 3 feet away. Donnell, that is superb craftsmanship. My solution is simpler and quicker -- if my modeling doesn't hold up in front of the camera, I use a cheaper camera!
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Post by lvrr325 on Oct 21, 2014 19:38:10 GMT -8
Revell was only one of the companies that used Athearn tooling/parts.But even more of their stuff was cloned (sometimes rather poorly) by a lot of manufacturers. At this point I'd say back it up, or show me something that says Revell on it that has anything Athearn on it that came out of the box that way. I have tons of Revell here and they all have their own parts, except for the dockside switcher, but even that has it's own frame casting and coupler covers. The closest I'm aware of is after Con-Cor got the Revell tooling, they sold the NW-2 or whatever the switcher was supposed to be using first Athearn drives, then later Kato drives. But the Revell has a combination rubber band and gear drive along the lines of what a lot of 60s Lionel engines used. Tons of cloning went on in the hobby back then - today it seems to be more where if company A makes a specific product in HO scale, company B may clone said product in N scale or O scale. The tooling seems to have nine lives, too, about the only tools that don't seem to have re-appeared are Gilbert HO - Model Power was even selling low end stuff based on the old Marx dies not that long ago. Before that they had the Cox dies that Walthers now has (or contracted to have stuff made from them).
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Post by Spikre on Oct 22, 2014 12:53:22 GMT -8
in the mid 90s did get a pair of Model Power Santa Fe Red Warbonnet F3 dummy units for some forgotten project. the units had a cast metal frame,Yugo style EMD Blomberg trucks and both had a headlite. Model Power did fill in the shell holes that were used by Cox for their Power Truck chassis. but don't recall any other notable improvements. Spikre
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Post by Spikre on Oct 23, 2014 19:42:26 GMT -8
Lvrr325, Lionel should have any Dies that Gilbert actually owned. when the Gilbert Line was re-activated about 1954 Varney supplied part of the Line including a Plastic Body version of the F3 that came before the all Plastic Varney F3 of the later 50s. the 34' Offset 2 bay Hopper was Gilbert, but the 30' 2 bay ribbed hopper was the Varney car. most Sprung Trucks were Varney supplied also,even on the Gilbert cars. about 59 or 60 Gilbert switched to mostly Marx supplied items. an exception was the Mantua supplied Civil War trains,or the Bay and Cupola Caboose that was made by Gilbert. Lionel has re-issued some early Lionel HO items,mainly the 1974 line that ended up mostly supplied by Kader after 76. cant recall any former Gilbert items being offered again. did Lionel 50/60s line use Gilbert Streamlined Passenger cars ? always wondered about that. Spikre
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 23, 2014 20:53:12 GMT -8
But the Revell has a combination rubber band and gear drive along the lines of what a lot of 60s Lionel engines used. My Revell NW2 has a copy of the Varney drive. The motor sits on top of one truck--the cab end, I think. There's a spur gear on the motor that drives a spur gear on the worm shaft. The worms on that shaft drive worm gears on the truck's axles. There is a universal shaft over to the other truck that drives another worm shaft and the appropriate axle gears. The big problem I had with this drive is/was keeping the spur gears meshed. The only thing holding the motor on the truck was the screw clamping the two poles onto the permanent magnet. Tightening this screw tended to disengage the spur gears. Not good. I think on the Varney drive, parts were die cast metal. On the Revell, they were die cast plastic. Which can be a bit more squishy than metal. Again,not good for gear boxes. At least, not these gear boxes. Here's a copy of a drawing showing a similar drive in a Revell F7A: Ed
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Post by Spikre on Oct 24, 2014 10:51:16 GMT -8
ED, think that is the Later Revell drive, there was a version that had the belt that powered the worm gear shaft. disclaimer - not really a Revell expert, or former owner of powered diesels. Varney went to all plastic gearboxes before 1960. the late NW2s still had the Metal Shell, but Plastic Gear Boxes and the KM-1 motor, no more Pittman DC60s. Marx was always all plastic and had a loud grinding noise when running,slow speed was almost non existant, they had to be run fast. there were several versions of the Metal Varney gear boxes, multi piece,and later a 1 piece box with a screw on bottom plate. must have drove repair people a bit batty. Spikre
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Post by llxlocomotives on Oct 29, 2014 5:34:12 GMT -8
I really wonder if Athearn actually cast the shell. As with a number of their parts, it is clear that the manufacturering process changed over the time. I think that change had to do with taking cost out by replacing part venders. In the early 1950's very little was made from plactic. Most was wood or metal. One of the reasons is because there was no experience base to make plastic parts. There are a lot of F unit shells floating around that really are identical, except for a few casting changes, like gates in the Bachmann case, slots or flats for screws in Mantua's case. The pilot area changes, but again that is a fairly simple casting mod. The overall deminsions from the various early shells are to close for them to have been from different venders, particularly in those early days. Larry check out my Blog: www.llxlocomotives.com
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Post by Spikre on Oct 29, 2014 13:44:12 GMT -8
the Original Bachman F unit of the 70s was an F9,it had the side slots of the F9,Panel spacing of the F9,and 48" DB fan of the F9.dont know if this Shell is still in Production ? the Bachman Plus Shell was a late F7 with a 48" D-B fan,but havnt looked at the B unit here for years,but do know it was close to the one late F7B that Erie ordered to convert their one passenger 3 unit F7 set to a 4 unit freight set. Back To Globe: am surprised at the lack of comments on the "Hi-F" drive in the F units and also in the GP9 thread. am guessing that many here started in the hobby well into the Athearn Flywheel Drive Age and really didn't have to put up with the vaguaries of the Rubber Band days. any comments on that theory ? Spikre
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Post by llxlocomotives on Oct 29, 2014 16:13:17 GMT -8
Bachmann is still selling their pancake motors, so I think the shell is still available. The RB era units are interesting. The shells are basically the same. They changed the coupler pockets on both the A and B. The pilot on the A was opened up to allow the shell to be removed without requiring a coupler removal. They also etched the letters F7A or B on the inside of the later shells. The earlier ones did not have the marks. I rehab as many as 10 a year. Sometimes more. I do find the GP9's and the Hustlers have more demand. So many trains, so little time, Larry Check out my blog: www.llxlocomotives.com
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Post by Spikre on Oct 30, 2014 18:08:23 GMT -8
Locos, the latest Bachman Catalog here is 2010. it shows the 70s FT for AHM available in DCC and non DCC, the non DCC is noted as 8 wheel drive. they added a "B" unit FT that wasn't available from AHM. why they didn't make the "FTSB" is odd. the entry train set or 2 has the former Spectrum Plus F7 as power, this is the shell with sky high Pilot. the Drive isn't mentioned. looks like the FT has replaced the Original F9. knowing Bachman they are likely still making these locos. Spikre
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Post by llxlocomotives on Oct 30, 2014 18:25:05 GMT -8
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 30, 2014 20:42:04 GMT -8
Wow! Being able to buy shells separate from the locomotive. What an innovation. I wonder if it will ever catch on.
Ed
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Post by Spikre on Oct 31, 2014 9:32:17 GMT -8
once about 1990 the Hobby Center got in a carton of Bachman diesel bodies for some reason, almost bought a Hi-Nose EL GP50 shell,but it had the 8500 number on it. so waffled on that and someone else bought it to strip for Southern, or NS. Bachman did do the EL GP50 in the 2500 series for awhile, but never did get one with the GP35 number on it. would think looking at shows that complete Bachman diesels or shells could be found for bargin prices if looking hard enuff. Spikre
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Post by eh49 on Oct 31, 2014 9:40:46 GMT -8
Wow! Being able to buy shells separate from the locomotive. What an innovation. I wonder if it will ever catch on. Ed [b It used to very easy to find Athearn shells in the better stocked shops. They common back in Irv's days.
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Post by rockfan on Nov 1, 2014 6:13:21 GMT -8
Last time I checked you can get shells from Atlas' online store
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Post by Donnell Wells on Nov 2, 2014 13:08:34 GMT -8
If I had fantasy wallet, I'd "borrow" the BB F7 molds from Athearn and make a few changes including rounding the filled under the windshields and reshaping the windshields to more accurately reflect the prototype. I would also add definition to the nose door and reshape the side cab windows and anticlimber/buffer.
Just these few changes alone would dramatically improve the look of old Globe model, and realistically aren't outside the scope of Athearn's current technical abilities. I know it's a pipe dream, most likely never to be realized, but one can always hope!
Donnell
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Post by Spikre on Nov 2, 2014 18:06:07 GMT -8
Donnell, one area You havnt touched on the F7 is the Too Flat Roof. in the 80s Jim6 cut apart an Atlas FP7 to add to the PRR F7s He had under construction.good article in Prototype Modeler. as for Re-Doing the F7 Molds,if Athearn had done that in the 70s it would have been money well spent.but as the Line Grew and the F7 dropped in importance,Athearn never did do that. the 80s Stewart F units revived F Unit sales,and led to the units available today. Spikre
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Post by atsfan on Nov 2, 2014 18:20:11 GMT -8
Are the old Stewart models still sold? I think Bowser bought them. But there is much competition now.
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Post by Spikre on Nov 2, 2014 18:25:08 GMT -8
atsfan, believe the ex-Stewart Fs from FT to F9 are still available from time to time at Bowser. maybe NdeM can elaborate on this ? or even Mr Lee English ? Spikre
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Post by atsfan on Nov 2, 2014 18:33:03 GMT -8
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Post by Spikre on Nov 2, 2014 18:42:18 GMT -8
atsfan, they do have the Kato Tooled Trucks which are favored here. but they may not always have Kato Motors today. send Mr Lee English a PM and find out. Spikre
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Post by Donnell Wells on Nov 2, 2014 18:49:56 GMT -8
Donnell, one area You haven't touched on the F7 is the too flat roof. In the 80s, Jim6 cut apart an Atlas FP7 to add to the PRR F7s he had under construction. Good article in Prototype Modeler. As for Re-Doing the F7 molds, if Athearn had done that in the 70s, it would have been money well spent. But as the line grew, and the F7 dropped in importance, Athearn never did do that. The 80s Stewart F units revived F-unit sales, and led to the units available today. Spikre I remember the Jim Six article, as wells as another good one in Prototype Modeler by Bob and Matt Kosic. Also, I do know about the roof. I was just trying to be reasonable with my alterations, and not go too overboard. If I could do all the work I wanted to do to it the roof, rear and pilot would be revised as well. Of course, there are those that would say, "Why bother? You can just use the *blank* shell." Well, I know that, but I don't want to use that. I want to know what could have been with this shell in particular. Honestly, the few changes I suggested in my above post can actually be done right now with little to no impact on production other than providing a better looking shell for the same price point. It wouldn't be perfect, but I'm not shooting for perfection. If I were, I would bypass this shell altogether in favor of Highliners. I'm looking for improvement, turning what was into what it could be.
Donnell
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 2, 2014 19:16:36 GMT -8
It wouldn't be perfect, but I'm not shooting for perfection. If I were, I would bypass this shell altogether in favor of Highliners. I'm looking for improvement, turning what was into what it could be. I used this same approach recently on an Athearn 4740 cf PS covered hopper (how old is that tooling?). A couple decades ago, I had dozens of the things. But over the years as I acquired Intermountain PS 4750s and Atlas Thrall 4750s all the foobies got sold off on ebay. Once the Tangent 4740s came out, I sold all but one of the Athearn 4740 hoppers. That one I tried to use as much of the original source material as possible and make it comparable to a Tangent kit. I've entered the final stages of weathering and detailing it this week. Just as your Globe projects have been not perfect models, but fun and challenging projects to make relevant to today's models, so has this hopper been for me.
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Post by Spikre on Nov 2, 2014 19:36:29 GMT -8
Donnell, just sinking the fans into the roof properly would be a nice addition. that mod would have saved You a bit of work ! like to Restore 50s and 60s models for what they are,dont try to super detail them, just get them assembled correctly, and add better trucks and RP25 wheels if needed. then Knuckle couplers are a nice finishing touch. Spikre
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Post by Donnell Wells on Nov 2, 2014 21:01:49 GMT -8
It wouldn't be perfect, but I'm not shooting for perfection. If I were, I would bypass this shell altogether in favor of Highliners. I'm looking for improvement, turning what was into what it could be. I used this same approach recently on an Athearn 4740 cf PS covered hopper (how old is that tooling?). A couple decades ago, I had dozens of the things. But over the years as I acquired Intermountain PS 4750s and Atlas Thrall 4750s all the foobies got sold off on ebay. Once the Tangent 4740s came out, I sold all but one of the Athearn 4740 hoppers. That one I tried to use as much of the original source material as possible and make it comparable to a Tangent kit. I've entered the final stages of weathering and detailing it this week. Just as your Globe projects have been not perfect models, but fun and challenging projects to make relevant to today's models, so has this hopper been for me. An etched roof walk and wire grabs go a long way for the Athearn 4740cf hopper. Yes, I was a bit dis heartened when I put it next to the Tangent model, BUT I don't necessarily have to run them together, and even if I do, most people wouldn't question it after all the detailing an weathering.
I also have some old Athearn U-boats and SW7s that I am modernizing, or at least will be when I get my shop up and running again!
Donnell
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Post by mkrcbuilds on Sept 11, 2022 15:38:43 GMT -8
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Post by lvrr325 on Sept 11, 2022 15:58:01 GMT -8
Only way to get parts for these is find someone parting one out on eBay or buy one to part out yourself. These were never produced after Revell stopped making them around 1962.
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