|
|
Post by Spikre on Oct 23, 2014 19:01:26 GMT -8
 figured this one needs its own thread as there are some that just cant let this Shell die a natural death. it would take an essay of at least 1000 words to cover all the Flaws of this shell. for Starters put one next to a Proto GP7 or GP9 and start to pick the Flaws out. that just covers the Shell,but snap the shell off and check out the Rubber Band drive that dominated sales from 57 to at least 65 when the 1st version of the modern BB geared drive stated to be offered. from about 62 to 65 the Horrid "Herring Bone" geared drive was offered with the screwed together all metal motor mostly used in the Rubber Band Era. the Introduction of the Athearn GP30 about 1963 took a lot of the heat off the GP9s problems. the GP30 shell was really way off the mark and matched no real GP30 whether Phs-1 or Phs-2. we'll delve deeper into the Flaws of the GP9 later,will say its Best virtue was its less than $10.00 RTR price for the Rubber Band drive,less in Kit form. the Original All Metal Gear Drive was close to $20.00,expensive for the 50s,and rare today to find a complete one. then in the late 70s or early 80s some discovered the Shell wasn't even a GP9,it was a mix of GP7 Phases,Oh My !! was that False Advertising ? Spikre 
|
|
|
|
Post by bnsf971 on Oct 24, 2014 2:50:44 GMT -8
Irv used to do that, when they started tooling, they would take the older model, and guess what the new model would look like. I remember the GP9, SW1500, DD40, and I am sure others he did this to.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Oct 24, 2014 4:48:30 GMT -8
Bob,You can not compare the BB GP7 with today's P2K Geeps,Genesis Geeps or the Atlas Geep unless you like comparing a Model T with a new Chevy..
As gamers say it is what it is.
The Athearn Geep was the best looking Geep of the time and looked far better then the Tenshado GP7 and when powered by a Hobbytown drive nothing could out pull it except the Hobbytown RS3 or RSD4/5...
When EMD first designed the SW1500 it looked very similar to the SW1200 but,changes was made on the drawing board to include a new cab designed that would give the engineer a better view and a new style of headlights.
|
|
|
|
Post by kcjones on Oct 24, 2014 5:15:32 GMT -8
Same thing for the DD40. It was on the drawing board and I believe it was also in the EMD catalog. Never built, but Irv built one.
JL
|
|
|
|
Post by kcjones on Oct 24, 2014 5:21:01 GMT -8
Besides, been around railroads all my life and I still can't t tell the difference between a GP7 or a GP9.
JL
|
|
|
|
Post by bnsf971 on Oct 24, 2014 5:38:46 GMT -8
Besides, been around railroads all my life and I still can't t tell the difference between a GP7 or a GP9. JL Externally, one has more louvers on the long hood than the other one. After several decades of parts swapping and rebuilding, it is a difference which makes no difference. Unless, of course, you are looking for as-built... |
|
|
|
Post by bar on Oct 24, 2014 6:36:15 GMT -8
Besides, been around railroads all my life and I still can't t tell the difference between a GP7 or a GP9. JL An easy spotting difference is that the GP7 has louvers under the cab windows. The other? No. Or in German, "Nein." (GP-Nein, get it?) I remember the difference between RS-1s similarly: The water-cooled model has a crosswise stack, ergo, water flows ACROSS the long hood. I didn't do very well in college. |
|
|
|
Post by wp8thsub on Oct 24, 2014 7:21:52 GMT -8
One of these still plies the rails on my layout. Don't tell anybody.  |
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Oct 24, 2014 7:47:15 GMT -8
Rob,I still have 6 of those Geeps that sees regular service.. In fact I use them more then my P2K or Atlas Geeps.
|
|
|
|
Post by lajrmdlr on Oct 24, 2014 9:33:57 GMT -8
Have seen a bunch of those old Athearn Santa Fes listed on eBay as GP9s. Funny thing is they are all in the GP7 2600 or 2700 #s & not Santa Fe's GP9 2900 #s. Tried to tell a couple of sellers about this but to them it was like the "joke about the roof", it was over their heads. LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by Spikre on Oct 24, 2014 11:04:42 GMT -8
 Andy, have noticed that most sellers at shows really don't want to know what they are actually selling. back to the GP9,should we cover the Cab or Dynamic Brake mistakes first ? also recall ADDs in the 50s for the Hustler about how "Super Detailed" the shell was. a model loosely based on a small Porter, had 2 EMD Exhaust Stacks, an Alco Radiator Fan, was at least 30% oversized for the Porter critter it was modeled after. but that was the "Fun 50s" !! Spikre 
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2014 11:05:12 GMT -8
Did someone mention DD40?  DD40 now with a scale-width hood as it becomes a prototype DD35A  |
|
|
|
Post by Spikre on Oct 24, 2014 11:12:38 GMT -8
 Jimaloooey, nothing like a Direct Thread Hi-Jack !!  nice work on the DD35,they were really Impressive untill the Centennials showed up !! will be waiting to see the finished model. Spikre 
|
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Oct 24, 2014 12:34:55 GMT -8
Bob,Just for fun..Think back to 1960. Would you rather have a Athearn GP7 with a Hobbytown drive or the Tenshodo GP7? hoseeker.net/tenshodo/tenshodocatalog3rdedpg09.jpgI had the Tenshodo GP7(NYC) and traded that for a Athearn GP7 with a Hobbytown drive. |
|
|
|
Post by Spikre on Oct 24, 2014 13:03:55 GMT -8
Larry, by the time Tenshodo Diesels were noticed they were selling GP20s, SD24s,and A-B FT sets. really wanted the PRR GP20,SD24,and FTs !! never have seen any Tenshoda Diesel run. but built my 1st Hobbytown FA-2 and drive over the 60-61 winter. it still runs today,but the FA-2 is still an Undec. the Athearn GP30 did leave a BAD Taste here. Spikre
|
|
|
|
Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Oct 24, 2014 15:14:19 GMT -8
Still have a Hobbytown FA/B set with motor in B unit and about 2-3 lb of linotype slugs in the A. Linotype...dates me, eh? Anybody? Was going to update the Alcos to dcc but it just sits down there. Pulled well over 100 cars at one time with zero sweat.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Oct 24, 2014 17:02:47 GMT -8
Larry, by the time Tenshodo Diesels were noticed they were selling GP20s, SD24s,and A-B FT sets. really wanted the PRR GP20,SD24,and FTs !! never have seen any Tenshoda Diesel run. but built my 1st Hobbytown FA-2 and drive over the 60-61 winter. it still runs today,but the FA-2 is still an Undec. the Athearn GP30 did leave a BAD Taste here. Spikre Bob,That GP30 was a terrible but,as a teenager I just had to buy two. These was later used as trade in fodder for 2 Athearn GP35s which IMHO was a good looking engine. |
|
|
|
Post by atsfan on Oct 24, 2014 18:17:21 GMT -8
Is this shell still being sold?
Awesome WP layout pix by the way !
|
|
|
|
Post by Judge Doom on Oct 24, 2014 22:13:27 GMT -8
Is this shell still being sold? Awesome WP layout pix by the way ! It hasn't been offered for years - it likely died when the Blue Box line did. Spotting details can change, but there were a number of distinct differences between GP7's and GP9's, as well as railfan-termed "phases" of production. Most good spotter's guides and 'dem ol' magazine articles on EMD's early Geeps (GP7-GP9-GP18) outline them. Athearn's GP9 was really closer to a GP7 (but not exact), but it was marketed as a GP9 for years, which is likely what some eBay sellers are going by: what it says on the side of the box. Just like the first Athearn SW1500 was really an SW7 (although it was a mix between an NW2 and SW7)... |
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Oct 25, 2014 0:30:48 GMT -8
It hasn't been offered for years - it likely died when the Blue Box line did.
-----------------------------------------------------
Are those the units that was offered in Athearn's WP "Special Edition" set?
|
|
|
|
Post by wp8thsub on Oct 25, 2014 7:09:17 GMT -8
Are those the units that was offered in Athearn's WP "Special Edition" set? If you're referring to mine, no. Those are among my first detail/paint/decal projects and pre-date the Athearn Special Edition releases.   Here's a better look at these two units. They received a fair amount of work, but retain many of the deficiencies inherent in the basic shells. At the time I was unaware if anyone offered correct GP7 stanchions, so I used the later style from Smokey Valley. The F7 came with the later trucks with plastic sideframes, but given the 24" curves of my layout at the time the brake cylinders interfered with the steps, so I retrofitted some metal trucks. I wouldn't consider using either of these as starting points for any new project. With the modifications to the drives, they perform up to current standards, so they'll continue to serve. |
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 25, 2014 9:00:50 GMT -8
Just like the first Athearn SW1500...(although it was a mix between an NW2 and SW7)... I did not know that. What are the NW2 "features"? Ed |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Doom on Oct 25, 2014 13:07:21 GMT -8
Just like the first Athearn SW1500...(although it was a mix between an NW2 and SW7)... I did not know that. What are the NW2 "features"? Ed IIRC, the top louvred radiator grill was an NW2 feature, as was the 2/3 height front air intakes. Lower than normal sand hatches and older style cast frame too. |
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 25, 2014 14:38:39 GMT -8
Hmmm.
I'm not finding much in the way of rooftop shots to illustrate any louvre differences.
The SW7 had a "full size" air intake, as does the Athearn model.
I'm finding sand hatches on the SW7 at two different heights, one of which matches the Athearn (the lower "NW2" position).
NW2's and SW7's BOTH had welded frames--that's what the W means.
Ed
|
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 25, 2014 14:54:03 GMT -8
Found a top view of an SW7: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2435241BUT, BUT, BUT this is a late SW7--see cab windows. PERHAPS early SW7's had the "louvre" style of radiator covers. I'd like to see the same shot of an early SW7. And, yes, I know the Athearn has a late cab. THAT is too easy to fix. At least, it will be when Cannon makes the cab kits available again. Ed |
|
|
|
Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 25, 2014 15:21:13 GMT -8
OMJ, Edward. You're right again! Anyway, here's a shot of an early SW7 with the Athearn-style radiator louvres: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3177609
and here's another one:
www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=759459Note on the BN one (ex NP), that there are no louvres towards the front. Again, I said Hmmmmmm. But look at this one: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2222669You'll note that the front of the radiator exhaust is also covered. I suspect that BN (or NP) added a cover in place of the front louvres on ole 111. And that it was delivered with the same louvres as the Southern SW7. Which would have been unlikely to have similar temperature needs as an NP engine. Also, as far as the different heights of the front sand box filler, I speculate that EMD offered two different sizes of sand boxes; and that that would account for the different heights. So, it's my assertion that Athearn made a credible copy of an early SW7. Except it has a late cab. Go figure. If ya want an early SW7, put on the proper Cannon cab. When you can find one. If ya want a late one, redo the radiator exhaust area and maybe raise the sand filler. And go ahead and put on the OTHER Cannon cab. When you can find one. It's worth it. Ed |
|
|
|
Post by Spikre on Oct 25, 2014 17:42:13 GMT -8
Larry, sure that the Athearn GP9s were out of Production a few years before the "Special Edition" Locos, or Loco Sets were sold. am guessing the GP9 was OPP before 1995,mainly due to compition from the Front Range GPs,the Atlas GP7,and the Proto GP18,GP9,GP7s. but like other items am sure it took awhile to sell out the stock piled units in the warehouse. Spikre
|
|
|
|
Post by Brakie on Oct 25, 2014 18:53:12 GMT -8
Larry, sure that the Athearn GP9s were out of Production a few years before the "Special Edition" Locos, or Loco Sets were sold. am guessing the GP9 was OPP before 1995,mainly due to compition from the Front Range GPs,the Atlas GP7,and the Proto GP18,GP9,GP7s. but like other items am sure it took awhile to sell out the stock piled units in the warehouse. Spikre Bob,Perhaps..I'm not sure when Athearn stopped production but,when Athearn went RTR those BB GP7 sold out rather quickly as did most BB car kits. I know they did at least two runs on undecorated shells and handrails after 2000. BTW.I went to a train show today and seen very little in the lines of BB engines but,seen lots of used BB cars. Also you may find this interesting like I did.I saw a Hobbyline FM 10-44 shell on a Athearn SW7 or S12 drive..The frame was heavily milled so the body would fit.. Price? $10.00..I'm sure its still available even though it had all the handrails including the side rails by the front steps and the by the cab steps plus the grabs by the cab door..Of course there was no front cab windows. |
|
|
|
Post by Spikre on Nov 2, 2014 18:18:17 GMT -8
 Larry, for 1953 the Hobbyline F-M H-10-44 wasn't that bad,the window area could be opened up if desired. got one in a shell swap in the early 80s.couldnt decide whether to use an Athearn SW7 chassis,or a Hobbytown switcher chassis for years. then the Walthers H-10-44 came out and never did power the shell. the Tooling was done by Culp Brothers of Pennsylvania,another shell by Culp was the Pennsylvania Models Phs-3 F-M H-16-44. Culp may have done the Shell work on the Gilbert Alco DL-600/RSD-7. and believe they did the tooling for the Stewart RS-3. Culp may have also done the Hobbyline/English Alco FA-1/FB-1,later used by Lionel. Spikre
|
|
