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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2014 21:16:08 GMT -8
Its kind of ridiculous when a Walthers DCC/sound F40PH with a stripped down Tsunami is the same MSRP as the Rapido stealth F40PH. If I was willing to fork out $199 for the Walthers, another Big Headed Ben gets me a truly remarkable model and sound decoder with the Rapido. Rapido's is brand new tooling and Walthers is a decades old model with a tummy tuck and 21st Century pricing. I'd much rather have two Rapido units than three of the Walthers. Quality over quantity.
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Post by Spikre on Dec 16, 2014 10:52:33 GMT -8
so what is the Walthers Model Line Up now ? Proto Mainline Train Line Scene Master Basic ? do they still make the Life Like Train Set Items ? Spikre
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Post by diburning on Dec 16, 2014 13:09:19 GMT -8
do they still make the Life Like Train Set Items ? Spikre Yes. They sell them at Toys R Us
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Post by riogrande on Dec 17, 2014 9:25:49 GMT -8
$199.99 for Trainline with sound? Maybe if it was detailed and included etched grilles. I like the Walters F40s very much, so much that I have at least 10 or 12 of them. I purchased ALL of them for under $50 each. If I'm getting an F40 with factory sound, it's going to be a Rapido unit!
DonnellSame here. I got 3 of the Walthers all for under $40 iirc and am only interested in Rapido in the future. jim
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Post by Judge Doom on Dec 17, 2014 23:43:39 GMT -8
does MTH and BLI make F40PHs ? if not,until they do we wont have a packed House of them. Spikre MTH will have one with a smoke unit, that runs at full blast all the time to simulate the HEP being active! After 5 minutes there will be choking smoke all over the layout room. BLI's...well, we all know it'll likely be only a sound/DCC offering. Bachmann could swoop in with a cheap sound/DCC unit for what, $89.95? $119.95? Cast-on grabs of course (hey Al, get the saw ready...) The Atlas one will be announced, but due to supplier problems we may not see it for a number of years Bowser...well, it's not an Alco so I can't see them coming in with their own just yet. Intermountain could couple onto this with their own, but the windows will be oversized, and not wanting a repeat of the too-slow SP cab-forward it'll probably run at 400+smph and fly off the track at every subtle curve!
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Post by John Sheridan on Dec 18, 2014 6:42:47 GMT -8
does MTH and BLI make F40PHs ? if not,until they do we wont have a packed House of them. Spikre MTH will have one with a smoke unit, that runs at full blast all the time to simulate the HEP being active! After 5 minutes there will be choking smoke all over the layout room. Just thank yourself that MTH does not make an Alco with a realalistic smoke units!
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Post by atsfan on Dec 18, 2014 8:50:23 GMT -8
does MTH and BLI make F40PHs ? if not,until they do we wont have a packed House of them. Spikre MTH will have one with a smoke unit, that runs at full blast all the time to simulate the HEP being active! After 5 minutes there will be choking smoke all over the layout room. BLI's...well, we all know it'll likely be only a sound/DCC offering. Bachmann could swoop in with a cheap sound/DCC unit for what, $89.95? $119.95? Cast-on grabs of course (hey Al, get the saw ready...) The Atlas one will be announced, but due to supplier problems we may not see it for a number of years Bowser...well, it's not an Alco so I can't see them coming in with their own just yet. Intermountain could couple onto this with their own, but the windows will be oversized, and not wanting a repeat of the too-slow SP cab-forward it'll probably run at 400+smph and fly off the track at every subtle curve! Which one will have the motor that can pull more than itself?
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Post by Gary P on Dec 18, 2014 9:03:48 GMT -8
MTH will have one with a smoke unit, that runs at full blast all the time to simulate the HEP being active! After 5 minutes there will be choking smoke all over the layout room. Just thank yourself that MTH does not make an Alco with a realalistic smoke units! Now THAT is a WHOLE LOTTA smoke!
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Post by Spikre on Dec 19, 2014 14:51:16 GMT -8
Chairman Guy, that's one reason D&H relied on EL E8s for years,until EL pulled the S/Gs out of most and lowered the gearing for freight service. so then D&H sent the PAs off to M-K for rebuilding late 74. whatever did happen to the New Haven PA that D&H had ? incidently,EL retired their PA fleet around 69/70 in better shape than the D&H PAs were in before being sent to M-K. Spikre
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Post by atsfan on Dec 19, 2014 15:29:23 GMT -8
Chairman Guy, that's one reason D&H relied on EL E8s for years,until EL pulled the S/Gs out of most and lowered the gearing for freight service. so then D&H sent the PAs off to M-K for rebuilding late 74. whatever did happen to the New Haven PA that D&H had ? Spikre Santa Fe repowered theirs with EMD engines very early on.
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Post by Spikre on Dec 19, 2014 15:38:52 GMT -8
atsfan, we just went thru this in one of the other Alco threads last week. but,it was 3 units,one A-B-A set that was repowered by EMD during 1954. the PA was number 51,Alco's 75,000 unit built,and 2 others. ATSF was NOT HAPPY with the REDUCED HP of the set,and no more units were rebuilt that way. ATSF did rebuild several [3 ?] Gators into EMD powered CRSD-20s around 1974,but didn't seem too impressed with these on the cheap SD20s in mostly Alco clothing. Spikre
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Post by atsfan on Dec 19, 2014 15:41:05 GMT -8
atsfan, we just went thru this in one of the other Alco threads last week. but,it was 3 units,one A-B-A set that was repowered by EMD during 1954. the PA was number 51,Alco's 75,000 unit built,and 2 others. ATSF was NOT HAPPY with the REDUCED HP of the set,and no more units were rebuilt that way. ATSF did rebuild several [3 ?] Gators into EMD powered CRSD-20s around 1974,but didn't seem too impressed with these on the cheap SD20s in mostly Alco clothing. Spikre Overall the Alco PA's were relegated by secondary trains pretty quickly. The F's and E's won the battle and the war. They were beautiful, but in the end, lost.
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Post by Judge Doom on Dec 19, 2014 22:47:26 GMT -8
whatever did happen to the New Haven PA that D&H had ? Parts unit for the fab four, eventually scrapped.
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Post by heymccall on Dec 21, 2014 12:33:12 GMT -8
The starter sets referenced in post 1 are P42 equipped.
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Post by buffalobill on Dec 21, 2014 18:28:49 GMT -8
Makes for a really high end train set. Bill
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Post by diburning on Dec 25, 2014 15:31:10 GMT -8
Just a locomotive? No cars? Who do they think this will appeal to? Actual modelers would buy the locomotive by itself, and people who want a train set would want something with cars. Makes for a really high end train set. Bill Does a "train set" without any cars still qualify as a train set?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 15:39:12 GMT -8
Just a locomotive? No cars? Who do they think this will appeal to? Actual modelers would buy the locomotive by itself, and people who want a train set would want something with cars. Makes for a really high end train set. Bill Does a "train set" without any cars still qualify as a train set? Why not? On the prototype, trains don't have to have cars.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2014 16:36:38 GMT -8
I think diburning was implying that if you're doing a prototype, you're an "actual modeler".
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Post by Judge Doom on Dec 26, 2014 13:46:14 GMT -8
Makes for a really high end train set. Bill Special edition light power move set. One loco, round and round and round and round...
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Post by nightmare0331 on Dec 26, 2014 14:01:49 GMT -8
Just a locomotive? No cars? Who do they think this will appeal to? Actual modelers would buy the locomotive by itself, and people who want a train set would want something with cars. Makes for a really high end train set. Bill Does a "train set" without any cars still qualify as a train set? These sets were built with components already on hand based on requests Kato received from retailers. The concept being that most stores have a wide selection of freight and passenger cars on hand already so the customer can select as they see fit instead of a few random cars that jack the price of the set up further. Enjoy! Kelley. www.dufordmodelworks.com
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Post by markfj on Dec 27, 2014 6:26:44 GMT -8
A reworked Lifelike F40PH made the cover of RMC almost a quarter of a century ago. Looks pretty good to me, but we’ve come a long way since then. RMC 1991 cover.docx (1002.65 KB) Thanks, Mark
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Post by rails4dmv on Dec 27, 2014 10:42:10 GMT -8
The starter sets referenced in post 1 are P42 equipped. Why didn't Kato just release another run of P42 locomotives with different road numbers into these starter kits? The regular Amtrak Phase III, IV and IVb, paired up with the Anniversary run would possibly entice people to buy 2.
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Post by Judge Doom on Dec 27, 2014 15:12:48 GMT -8
The starter sets referenced in post 1 are P42 equipped. Why didn't Kato just release another run of P42 locomotives with different road numbers into these starter kits? The regular Amtrak Phase III, IV and IVb, paired up with the Anniversary run would possibly entice people to buy 2. These sets were built with components already on hand... A.k.a, one way to move some stale inventory.
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Post by toledopatch on Jan 3, 2015 7:25:33 GMT -8
FWIW, I think you'd be hard pressed to find any prototype F40PH's in Phase II let alone Phase I. I've only seen them painted in Phase III (as the earliest F40PH's were delivered in 1975). Phase II painted F40PHs lasted, at least in limited numbers, into 1987, if not later. www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=268379&nseq=364None were delivered in Phase I paint. I believe AMTK 203 was the last one in service in Phase II paint - it lasted until at least 1990 that way. The 258 was also a late survivor, albeit with its decorations in much worse condition than the 203, which remained fairly crisp.
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Post by diburning on Jan 3, 2015 21:27:15 GMT -8
Just a locomotive? No cars? Who do they think this will appeal to? Actual modelers would buy the locomotive by itself, and people who want a train set would want something with cars. Does a "train set" without any cars still qualify as a train set? Why not? On the prototype, trains don't have to have cars. I think diburning was implying that if you're doing a prototype, you're an "actual modeler". What I meant was, if this set is geared towards someone who wants a train set, then they wouldn't actually be buying a train set since it has no cars. I mean, I suppose some retailers would have cars on hand for the person to pick out, but what about holiday/birthday gifts? If someone walks into a train store to buy someone a train set as a gift, they'd want something that's an "all-in-one" especially if that person knows nothing about trains. We may know that a train isn't required to have cars (a la light engine move) but will these "casual modelers" know? As for "actual modelers" I meant that anyone with an established layout would just buy the locomotive by itself, not the starter set as they most likely wouldn't need the track.
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Post by roadkill on Jan 4, 2015 9:35:49 GMT -8
A reworked Lifelike F40PH made the cover of RMC almost a quarter of a century ago. Looks pretty good to me, but we’ve come a long way since then. View AttachmentThanks, Mark One also made the cover of Mainline Modeler, the heavily reworked on built by Bob Zenk. That series of articles had a heck of an impact on my modeling.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 4, 2015 15:01:03 GMT -8
A reworked Lifelike F40PH made the cover of RMC almost a quarter of a century ago. Looks pretty good to me, but we’ve come a long way since then. View AttachmentThanks, Mark I am familiar with that cover photo - it looks good except for the bottom of the anti climber - it doesn't look like the profile is right. That was true for the Bachman Plus F40PH as well. The bottom profile wasn't quite right.
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Tom
Full Member
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Post by Tom on Jan 4, 2015 16:30:42 GMT -8
And the windshield spaced too far apart..
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Post by markfj on Jan 5, 2015 9:54:26 GMT -8
The cover was posted just as a comparison (or maybe a benchmark) to show how far we’ve come in the quality of available RTR F40PH models. The author acknowledges in the article that some compromises were made during the construction, such as not including all the MU coupler pockets below the anticlimber. Still, considering how long ago the article was written and what was available at that time to work with, the model looks decent. Maybe I should have posted a picture of that famous cigarette ad next the cover, you know the one that says “You’ve come a long way baby”.
Based on the quality of Rapido’s previous models, there is little doubt in my mind that theirs will be the most accurate F40PH ever. However, I don’t see a massive “dump” of Kato (or even Walther’s) models on eBay in favor of the Rapido model following its release. Maybe I’m wrong, but I see many retaining their Kato’s based solely on the reliability and smooth performance of their drives. The “good enough” maxim may keep those undecided modelers from committing to a purchase. We'll see.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by riogrande on Jan 5, 2015 10:37:15 GMT -8
The cover photo looks decent but even back around 1989 when the Bachmann Spectrum F40PH was released, I was very disappointed with the rendering of the pilot, as well as other things - but as I later learned, Bachmann Spectrum frequently fell very short of offering an accurate diesel.
The Walthers Trainline F40PH, first offered in the early 1990's, was a massive improvement over any offered prior, even if it didn't have tons of fine details and was a budget line diesel. It's kind of shame it's taken this long to have a high fidelity F40PH finally coming to market. Certainly the technology and abilty has been around for the past 20 years to offer something better. KATO failed to live up to their past reputation and fell short too.
I don't see a massive dump of the KATO diesel due to the cost of the Rapido unit being steep, except by those who can afford to drop $400+ for a pair of non-sound or $600 for two sound. As it is I had to sell some stuff off and save up to drop the $480 it cost me for 1 sound and 2 non-sound Genesis GP40-2's. Likely I'll save up and spring for a single Rapido in phase III, and even that for a diesel probably only used occasionally in the Amtrak California Zephyr. They do look like they will be the last word on the F40PH, finally. My hope is we will see latter phase US versions coming after this first offering.
Cheers, Jim
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