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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Dec 22, 2014 8:53:45 GMT -8
The last and one of three SD18m rebuilt from a low nose Union Pacific SD24.
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Post by antoniofp45 on Dec 24, 2014 14:34:04 GMT -8
Jim, I know it's likely been covered, but could you please post the info regarding the when/what/how/why Chicago & Northwestern switched from one yellow to the other? I've always liked the orange-yellow color more than the greenish-yellow. I think that years ago there were debates among rail fans as to which yellow was more attractive. Way back in my teen years I purchased an Athearn Blue Box C&NW SDP40 for no other reason than the color scheme, lol!
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Dec 24, 2014 15:59:01 GMT -8
Jim, I know it's likely been covered, but could you please post the info regarding the when/what/how/why Chicago & Northwestern switched from one yellow to the other? I've always liked the orange-yellow color more than the greenish-yellow. I think that years ago there were debates among rail fans as to which yellow was more attractive. Way back in my teen years I purchased an Athearn Blue Box C&NW SDP40 for no other reason than the color scheme, lol! From the site Utah Rails: "In the early 1980s, Chicago & North Western diverged from the use of Stagecoach Yellow to a paler yellow officially known as "Pantone 102C" (a trade name for this particular hue). This color was the source of a misconception, because it was usually referred to as "Zito Yellow," a reference to Jim Zito, senior vice president-operations at the time that use of the paint began around 1980. In fact, Zito did not have any personal preference for the color, but had simply directed the Motive Power Department to investigate the use of a yellow paint that could improve the visibility of North Western's locomotives, for safety reasons. "Pantone 102C" was the color selected. (In fact, before the final selection of "Pantone 102C," an even lighter, more whitish yellow and also a lime-yellow were tried as a test on several locomotives.) The use of less-expensive non-enamel paints by C&NW's various paint shops (primarily Oelwein Shop and California Avenue Coach Yard) combined with the "Pantone 102C" hue resulted in several years of "off-color" C&NW locomotives, due to the low resistance to fading of the paint pigments (typically caused by deterioration resulting from exposure to strongly caustic soaps and the sun's ultraviolet radiation). This made it commonplace to see C&NW locomotives in various shades of "Pantone 102C" yellow, ranging from "stock as-painted" all the way to an almost neutral, faded chalky-white yellow, all mixed in with older locomotives still bearing their factory-applied, but now well-weathered "Stagecoach Yellow." In addition to using "Pantone 102C" for in-house repainting, C&NW specified it for factory painting of the EMD SD50s and SD60s (in 1985 and 1986, respectively), and the first two orders of General Electric C40-8s (in 1989 and 1990). By the mid-1980s, C&NW had sufficient experience with fading yellow paint on locomotives and a color change needed to be made. Perhaps the "final straw" was the rapid fading of yellow paint applied by General Electric to the first 42 C40-8s within one year of delivery. All of these locomotives (which included the Wyoming Centennial unit, 8542) were being used in captive service on Western Railroad Properties, Inc. (WRPI), where the elevation ranges from about 3,800 feet above sea level at South Morrill to just over 5,400 feet at East Myles, Wyo. This high average altitude subjected the units to continuous exposure to strong sunlight, which, of course, contains ultraviolet radiation, and UV is particularly damaging to chrome yellow pigments. Even though GE painted these units at Erie using expensive polyurethane paint, the chrome yellow pigment used in blending the paint was a cheaper domestic inorganic pigment. Consequently, the yellow on all 42 units (8501-8542) had to be repainted in 1991, with GE selecting Mid-America Car in Kansas City as its contractor. In addition to using a more-expensive organic chrome yellow pigment from Germany, the replacement yellow paint reverted to Stagecoach Yellow at C&NW's request, to match the same colors being applied to the third order of C40-8/C42-8 locomotives then being built at Erie (8543-8577). Thus, North Western was able to have all 77 of its Dash 8s in the same colors. To mark the return to the deeper, richer hue of older days, C&NW officially renamed Stagecoach Yellow as "Traditional C&NW Yellow." Unofficially, however, everyone simply called it the "new old yellow." Starting with the 130 C44-9Ws and continuing with the 35 AC44000Ws, C&NW specified "clear coat" paint from GE. This involves making a final application of pigment-free paint (just like clear coating applied to new automobiles) which seals the pigmented paints and all adhesive decals. As for the C&NW logotype, which first appeared in its classic ball-and-bar format in 1891, the logotype variously referred to Chicago & North Western as the "Line," "System" (starting in 1944), and "Railway" (from 1957). From 1972 until about 1982, the logotype substituted the words "Employee Owned" inside the top-and-bottom of the ball portion. The employee-owned moniker was dropped in the early 1980s, reverting to "System" when North Western's common stock began trading publicly, and expanded ownership by non-employees made the employee distinction meaningless (and also non-compliant with various stock trading regulations). Logotype colors were never changed from red, white and black - they were in use from before World War II until the end in 1995."
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Post by calzephyr on Dec 25, 2014 7:17:53 GMT -8
The last and one of three SD18m rebuilt from a low nose Union Pacific SD24. Jim Thanks for providing information that most of us would not have without your input. Your models are excellent and I hope the best for you. Larry
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Post by antoniofp45 on Dec 30, 2014 11:23:20 GMT -8
Jim,
Wow! Thank you for posting that report from Utah Rails. After all these years I now more fully understand and it makes sense. Yellow and Red tints in automotive/industrial paints tended to deteriorate more quickly from the combination of UV rays & caustic soaps than other hues and tones.
Had that same problem in the transit system I worked for in the 1980s. The large red and yellow-orange stripes on our transit buses lasted 2 to 3 years before fading noticeably inspite of them being painted with DuPont's IMRON Polyurethane single stage paint. At that time IMRON was one of the most durable commercial fleet paint finishes on the market and was used by a number of US transit systems and railroads.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Dec 30, 2014 14:14:24 GMT -8
Jim, Wow! Thank you for posting that report from Utah Rails. After all these years I now more fully understand and it makes sense. Yellow and Red tints in automotive/industrial paints tended to deteriorate more quickly from the combination of UV rays & caustic soaps than other hues and tones. Had that same problem in the transit system I worked for in the 1980s. The large red and yellow-orange stripes on our transit buses lasted 2 to 3 years before fading noticeably inspite of them being painted with DuPont's IMRON Polyurethane single stage paint. At that time IMRON was one of the most durable commercial fleet paint finishes on the market and was used by a number of US transit systems and railroads. OFF TOPIC ALERT!
Back in the day when I was active in the passenger car department at the Illinois Railway Museum(mid 80's to mid 90's), many of the steel sided privately owned cars that run behind Amtrak trains, were painted with Imron. I was told by the owner of one of the private passenger car rebuilders that Imron was super tough and highly poisonous when applied. Imron was not for shade tree painters. As far as the toughness of Imron, the passenger car guy said you could throw a brick at the side of the car and barely scratch the paint.
One paint that we at IRM had a terrible time with was Pullman Green by DuPont. It only came in Dulux and if the piece of equipment was left outside it would begin to chalk in a couple of years if not less. IRM painted the Louisville & Nashville diner Galt House with Dulux Pullman and it chalked quickly plus, in the cold when the steel contracted, the paint began to flake off the sides of the car in sheets. IRM "chalked" that up to not properly treating the steel before priming and painting it when the moisture levels in the air were very high. A couple of years ago, Galt House made a short journey to the Wisconsin & Southern Horicon shop and was completely repainted....PROPERLY. W&S also did the CNW paint on EMD F7A 411, which is holding up beautifully many years later.
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Post by slowfreight on Dec 31, 2014 14:25:56 GMT -8
Off Topic, continued.
Unfortunately, somebody did no favors to Galt House when returning it to IRM, and apparently 6 years later, they're finally repairing the damaged buffer and diaphragm to get it back into service. It still looks great, but you just can't let the neighbors play with your toys anymore.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Apr 15, 2015 18:03:34 GMT -8
Time to start on the first low nose SD18m. These units are former Union Pacific. They aren't as heavily modified as the former Southern units. The canvas is a brand new Atlas SD24 Union Pacific version. First step is to remove the dynamic brake grids and the radiator grilles. Removed the turbo charger base which will be replaces with a plate from the Plano kit. I replace the Atlas drop steps, which are fine but are made out of delrin which is tough to get paint to stay adhered over the long run. I use Detail Associates early version drop steps. There is a void for the Atlas base and I use a piece of styrene to plug the hole. The fireman's side of the long hood with the section which will be replaced marked for a guide where to cut. The rough hole cut into the long hood. The cut out section which will be discarded. The opening carefully filed to fit in the new part from Plano. The fireman's side new long hood portion with the strips attached. They still need to be trimmed down a little. The engineer's side of the new long hood portion. The plastic supplied by Plano is a little larger than the etching. Here is the etching attached to the plastic backing. The brown is the contact cement. I carefully file the extra plastic down and then constantly test fit it in the finished cut out portion of the long hood. Its time consuming but you can always take material off, you can't add material back. As they say in the carpenter trade....measure twice and cut once. The new portion of the fireman's side installed and ready for its doors, hinges and latches. The engineer's side of the long marked for the section that will be removed. More to follow.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Apr 20, 2015 14:18:44 GMT -8
Finished and ready for paint. The finished rear pilot. Being a 1980's rebuild, the foot board pilots were removed and a simple plate bolted in place. I used some styrene and the bottom reinforcing bar is strip stock. The cut bars are scratch built using 0.012" brass wire. The CNW welded another bar to the original cut bar to facilitate being able to pull the pin while still on the steps. I soldered the additional bar to the regular cut bar. I also soldered the pin pulling part of the cut bar to the rest of the bar. Then I soldered the cut bar to the brass Detail Associates cut bar brackets. I think I like to solder.... During rebuilding the louvers on the access doors on the engineer's side of the sill doors. The etched brass steps from Plano on a low nose unit. Front pilot. When the SD18's went to the CNW snow plows were added. This necessitated the cut bar being modified in a V-type configuration for the bar to clear the plow. The cut out and roughed out door removal area on the fireman's side. The new doors and insert from Plano on the fireman's side. The roof plates installed from Plano. The model came with a winterization hatch which is mounted to the shell with pins. The hatches were removed during rebuilding to SD18's. The one hole for the hatch is covered by the plate for the new exhaust stacks. The other two holes by the radiator fans, I filled with styrene rod and finished up with a dab of Bondo and sanding. The fireman's side new doors. Unlike the former Southern units, the former Union Pacific SD24's retained their dual rear ladders. I soldered the ladders together like I did with the other three high nose SD18's. The ladders are not permanently affixed to the shell yet as they are painted green. The shell more or less ready for scrub and some Zito yellow.
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Post by stevef45 on Apr 20, 2015 20:34:01 GMT -8
Jim, how do you make your cutlevers?
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Apr 21, 2015 9:48:18 GMT -8
Jim, how do you make your cutlevers? I just eyeball it and use a pair of pliers. The loop is difficult and bending this can be avoided by using the loop from a Detail Associates cut bar. You straighten the bend where the loop begins cut sufficient straight material with the loop from the DA part. Then sand the DA part to remove the plating and get down to bare phosphorus bronze wire. Bend the ends of straight pieces a little bit to catch the brass wire from the left and right side of the cut bar. This is the area in the middle between the two inner cut bar brackets. Then put some flux on the modified DA part and add some solder. Make sure the scratch built parts of the cut bar are also sanded so you have clean metal. Then with a hot iron you just dab the modified DA part which already has solder on it and together with the flux on the brass wire a solid joint is made.
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Post by stevef45 on Apr 21, 2015 20:12:39 GMT -8
oh boy. I think this is going to turn into one of those days where im going to be cursing, swearing and going through alot of brass wire.
What size brass wire for the cut levers?
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Post by stevef45 on Apr 21, 2015 20:15:32 GMT -8
These are my next projects sometime this year. These cutlevers are going to be a challenge And one of the 2 G&W units i need to add cut levers too. This one is atleast somewhat normal and that the DA ones should work.
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Post by fr8kar on Apr 21, 2015 20:46:34 GMT -8
Steve: I wish I had a better photo, but here's my rendition of the type shown on your middle photo: www.pbase.com/mecrharris/image/158665282/originalI modeled these cut levers by bending my own wire cut levers from one length of wire then soldering the step operated handles to the main cut lever wire. I created the P shaped bend by inserting the end of the wire into the "handle" of a T-pin and bending the wire around the pin itself. I know the explanation probably doesn't help, but get some wire and try it. It works! I used 0.012" wire, but going forward I'll use 0.008" wire for cut levers. Have you begun modeling Fort Worth and Western? I live along the main line and sometimes work right next to Hodge Yard in Fort Worth at BN North Yard. It's a pretty cool operation.
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Post by GP40P-2 on Apr 21, 2015 21:38:36 GMT -8
This one is atleast somewhat normal and that the DA ones should work. [/quote] I am partial to the "Tarantula" snoot and the "Cowtown" GP35 and would like to do them this year as well. Not that I need any FWWR units in a northern California setting.... FWWR has some sharp looking units. Now they just need a tunnel motor with catchy name. And as Ryan says, cool operation! Now we'll let the other Jim get back to a GREAT thread on the SD18m's Jim
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Post by stevef45 on Apr 21, 2015 23:17:49 GMT -8
I have not begun anything with the FWWR. I will probably by summer. I want to finish my 2 RCPE SD40-3's first and get them and everything else I need to paint in the paint booth asap.
I am going to be building that snoot and the former SP SD45. I've located a SD45 shell to use on my SD45 powered drive. But i'll have to go through my parts bin to find the sp parts i removed from a tunnel motor years ago. I know I have them somewhere. The snoot i'll have to source a whole sd40 so that one will take longer. However it would appear that the USPS has lost an entire box of detail parts. Says delivered on 4/20 at 1447. Not one thing was waiting for me this past monday. pretty irritated right about now. It of course had the 116" snoot nose, cannon parts and other goodies that would be needed for these future builds.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Aug 2, 2015 10:32:33 GMT -8
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Post by roadkill on Aug 2, 2015 17:51:01 GMT -8
Gorgeous!
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Post by SantaFeSammy on Aug 3, 2015 5:46:34 GMT -8
Fantastic Build!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2015 1:00:41 GMT -8
Wow!!! Excellent work, Jim.
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