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Post by curtmc on Jan 19, 2015 20:04:54 GMT -8
Since the first SD40-2 poll, in its wording, choices, and allowance of multiple votes would be found by many in the polling business to be biased, I propose a more realistic poll that also shows the level of interest by pricing... Poll is for 1 week.
Notes:
MSRP given in poll is without DCC and without sound (however sound would likely be available at about $100 higher MSRP than value in poll option)
Selection of No option is for those satisfied with SD40-2s already owned or those currently available on the HO market
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 19, 2015 20:09:30 GMT -8
I'm in. The other poll already has an optimistically low street price. Nobody will be able to deliver a new from the ground up SD40-2 model for around $150 street price. It would be more.
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Post by carrman on Jan 19, 2015 21:41:42 GMT -8
Will the moderators kindly put a stop to curts bs please?  Dave |
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 19, 2015 23:28:38 GMT -8
There's no option for sound and DCC, therefore it precludes anyone specifically looking for a sound/DCC model, a feature that many people feel important and want in a locomotive, especially one that's intended to be a high quality, be-all end-all SD40-2.
Therefore this poll is flawed, and I will not vote in it. I propose a new one be created.
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Post by Brakie on Jan 20, 2015 1:23:35 GMT -8
Will the moderators kindly put a stop to curts bs please? Dave Curt makes valid points in many discussions including this one.. |
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Post by gevohogger on Jan 20, 2015 4:42:05 GMT -8
I'm in. The other poll already has an optimistically low street price. Nobody will be able to deliver a new from the ground up SD40-2 model for around $150 street price. It would be more. Quoted for emphasis. This poll has much more realistic prices, regardless if the manufacturer were Athearn or otherwise. |
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Post by atsfan on Jan 20, 2015 4:44:08 GMT -8
This poll lists no as first choice rendering it biased.
There are huge quantities of people who will buy a SD40-2 if done well like the recent Athean SDP45 etc.
It will not costs more than it did.
And will actually sell more since it is so common.
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Post by gevohogger on Jan 20, 2015 4:48:31 GMT -8
This poll lists no as first choice rendering it biased. By that line of reasoning the other poll was biased in favor of yes. |
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Post by atsfan on Jan 20, 2015 4:54:01 GMT -8
This poll lists no as first choice rendering it biased. By that line of reasoning the other poll was biased in favor of yes. As was stated by the author of this poll. |
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Post by gevohogger on Jan 20, 2015 5:01:56 GMT -8
By that line of reasoning the other poll was biased in favor of yes. As was stated by the author of this poll. That's not the type of bias Curt was mentioning. Do you not understand the problem with the other poll? |
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Post by calzephyr on Jan 20, 2015 9:16:52 GMT -8
Both polls are interesting and so far, it looks like we are happy overall with the past SD40-2 models.
Athearn came out with their SD40-2 in the mid 1980 era and made that model available when they were King of the Road.
I would like to see more concentration on what is missing in the modern era of diesels.
Larry
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Post by iccn1000 on Jan 20, 2015 9:25:33 GMT -8
Bring'em on! I'd sell the sh*t out of them if they were the same price as the Gevos from Genesis.. Thanks Rob Gruber www.dcctrain.com |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jan 20, 2015 9:32:38 GMT -8
Both polls are interesting and so far, it looks like we are happy overall with the past SD40-2 models. Athearn came out with their SD40-2 in the mid 1980 era and made that model available when they were King of the Road. I would like to see more concentration on what is missing in the modern era of diesels. Larry While my taste in railroad era is more 60's and 70's with a hint of the 80's. The SD40-2 prototype was the F-unit and GP7 and 9 of the 1970's and 1980's. Someway, somehow, Athearn continues to pump out Genesis F-series models, while still milking the old Globe/Blue Box in the RTR line for all its got. A correct poll should be what is a person comfortable spending on a model. I classify model railroaders into a number of groups. 1. Rag pickers - if they spend a $1 they've nearly spent too much. Will scour shows picking up broken models, old as dirt models, cheap train set models and anything else that is CHEAP or FREE. 2. The Frugal - set a limit on what they will spend and don't go over it. Will make do with less, just as long as it has a cheap price. 3. Middle of the road crowd - Will make do with less than the latest and greatest. But will spend some money on the hobby. Will buy the RTR line of an Athearn or will snap up bargains of higher end stuff. 4. Higher expectations, but must watch the pennies - will buy the Genesis quality model, but it will only be maybe one or two. Just can't afford all the toys and has to pick and choose their purchases wisely 5. Only the best - has no problem dropping the money to get the models they want and they want the best 6. Brass collectors - If it ain't brass, they don't want it. |
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Post by tdspeedracer on Jan 20, 2015 10:28:30 GMT -8
I won't buy one. I'm happy with my Kato and re-powered late blue box Athearns. So much so that I passed on new RTR in my home road for $85 over the weekend. Probably won't find that deal ever again for a new one, but I already have a more than I need.
Taking a hit to sell one that I have upgraded/detailed or painted to "upgrade" to a factory run loco that every tom dick and harry can have doesn't make any sense to me.
Trevor
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Post by enginseer on Jan 20, 2015 10:40:52 GMT -8
This isn't 1955, 1965, 1975, 85, 95, or 2005... It's 2015 and I expect prices to be higher than they were before.
I don't mind spending 200-300 bucks on a nice, sound equipped SD40-2. Over $300 and I would rather pay a good modeler to make exactly what I want. Nothing beats a custom model made by a professional modeler.
But then, I just paid 3500 bucks (medium quality) for a custom bicycle so who knows.
I'm not wealthy by any means, but I am single (explains a lot) and can put more money towards things I find enjoyable without many repercussions.
I used to be a brass collector, but the plastic models are getting so good I don't see the point any longer. The weight of those models can get crazy especially if you move around a lot.
I do feel for those folks that don't have my financial options so it's hard to hope for something in a class that is out of reach
for so many deserving fellow hobbyists.
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Post by bikedude on Jan 20, 2015 11:46:57 GMT -8
But then, I just paid 3500 bucks (medium quality) for a custom bicycle so who knows. And apparently got a pretty good deal for $3500 I'm on the fence on the Genesis quality SD40-2. I have several of the RTR and that may be enough for now. |
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jan 20, 2015 15:02:57 GMT -8
But then, I just paid 3500 bucks (medium quality) for a custom bicycle so who knows. And apparently got a pretty good deal for $3500 I'm on the fence on the Genesis quality SD40-2. I have several of the RTR and that may be enough for now. Good deal? Umm ok. Very few REAL men in America would ever agree with both of you on that though. we call that "rich dummy problems" Well hold up, Maybe you are a PROFESSIONAL bicyclist that makes hundred of thousands of dollars a year from a $3500 bike? If so then I guess it is a good deal. otherwise, NOPE. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 16:30:44 GMT -8
Will the moderators kindly put a stop to curts bs please? Dave Better (and potentially easier) idea: Get Jason to release an SD40-2  |
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Post by curtmc on Jan 20, 2015 19:35:46 GMT -8
As for the order of the options, it is common in polls to have the base (status quo) option first. This poll is like that.
Steeltiger, take the options, add $100 to MSRP for sound, and vote... So if you wouldn't pay more than $300 MSRP for one with sound, that equates to no more than $200 MSRP without sound, thus the first yes option...
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Post by WP 257 on Jan 21, 2015 2:09:06 GMT -8
Dave (carrman) and others--
Curt is no more full of bs than myself or others of us on these forums.
It's 2015--Live and let live.
Curt has brought plenty of value to discussions, and none of us is perfect to cast the first stone.
Respectfully submitted--
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Post by bikedude on Jan 21, 2015 9:47:11 GMT -8
And apparently got a pretty good deal for $3500 I'm on the fence on the Genesis quality SD40-2. I have several of the RTR and that may be enough for now. Good deal? Umm ok. Very few REAL men in America would ever agree with both of you on that though. we call that "rich dummy problems" Well hold up, Maybe you are a PROFESSIONAL bicyclist that makes hundred of thousands of dollars a year from a $3500 bike? If so then I guess it is a good deal. otherwise, NOPE. This is probably a bad idea, but I’ll take a crack at it anyway. I certainly don’t want to speak for enginseer, as he seems like a pretty intelligent guy who can voice his own opinion, so I’ll just address Al’s comments from my own perspective. I apologize in advance for the off-topic post. “Rich dummy problems” – Rich? Hardly. Dummy? I hope not, but don’t tell my family and friends just in case. Problems? Always… REAL man? I don’t know. I gave up on worrying about what people thought of me in terms of that long ago. My kids still talk to me and my wife hasn’t changed the locks at home, so that’s good enough for me. PROFESSIONAL cyclist? Nah, if that were the case I’d be looking at the $15,000-$25,000 and up bikes. Someone who loves riding a bicycle? Absolutely. I suppose it is easy to throw stones at sports/hobbies if you don’t know anything about them or the equipment that is used. Golf clubs (not to mention greens fees), softball bats/gloves, basketball shoes (actually any kind of specialized shoes), locomotives, freight cars, airbrushes, paint booths, etc. You can spend as much or as little as you’d like in pursuit of sport or leisure. Not to get too much into justification of bike prices, but it really comes down to choices. I have chosen not to drink or smoke, not to buy expensive cars or take fancy vacations, not to partake in expensive meals out (at least not that often). My wife and I have chosen to be financially responsible. We bought a house we could afford and paid it off. We paid for our children’s college educations. Our retirement planning is going according to our plan. My wife and I love cycling so we bought bikes that would accommodate our riding styles and match the terrains we prefer. I come from a family of endurance athletes. Unfortunately, ankle issues, mostly basketball related, made it difficult to continue running, so I switched to cycling. My last bike was purchased in 2000 and has performed admirably for nearly 15 years. I am fortunate enough to work at a job where I can commute instead of driving, and over the years have saved more than the purchase price of the bike in gas expenses alone. This doesn’t include the health benefits or the saving of the environment if you’re into that sort of thing. Still, when contemplating the purchase, I talked it over with my Dad (a REAL man) who said “You know what, little dude? You work hard and you take care of your family. Every once in a while you need to do something for you.” A very wise man indeed and a conversation I’ll always remember. I also do my own maintenance so there are no bike shop costs. As an aside, I also work on bikes for a number of friends and over the years have probably turned down well over the amount of money that I paid for the bike. But then again I’m not really in this to get rich. Looking at the spreadsheet I keep of my model railroad purchases, locomotive costs alone are more than the price I paid for the bike. That tells me two things. First, I must not be too much of a dummy since I seem to be able to use Excel – successful use of any Microsoft product is reason for celebration. Second, there are a whole bunch of people out there, including cyclists, who would be flabbergasted by the amount of money people spend on model railroading and could label the entire hobby as “rich dummy problems.” I do find it somewhat ironic that people are called out as being “rich dummies” and not “REAL men” on a model railroad forum. In the words of the immortal William Shatner, “Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes.” Al, if you are interested in learning more about the sport of cycling and why things cost what they do, I’d be happy to talk with you offline. You may still think the $59 Walmart bike is more than enough, but at least you would have more information from which to draw. If however you just wanted to throw stones, or to put it into more appropriate vernacular, “Haters gonna hate, dawg” then I leave you with this quote posted just two days ago on this forum, and ask if all men (REAL or not) or all diversity are created equally. “Well this is a great day to celebrate love, diversity and Model Railroading. I am getting myself ready for this great train show coming up this weekend. I will spend the day reflecting on all the trials and tribulations of OUR people as United States citizens as a WHOLE. We have come very far when I can go to a train show with White people and black people holding hands. I am just being very light guys. I am glad that this year I will NOT be greeted by a huge confederate flag on the wall in the Better Living center as I enter into a FAMILY EVENT train show. I know many people feel the same way I do, I love ya dawg!! Happy MLK day!” |
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jan 21, 2015 10:59:22 GMT -8
Bikedude, my bike's not even worth a grand, but I was being roasted the other week by a friend who pointed out I could've had the better part of two diesels with sound for what I had spent on some winter bibs and a jacket. The roasting ended when I pointed out I have the same body dimensions as in college decades ago. Something nobody else in the room could say. Freedom to pursue our own personal brand of happiness -- it's a great thing! As is the freedom to laugh at what each other does, I suppose.
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Post by peoriaman on Jan 21, 2015 11:20:12 GMT -8
And apparently got a pretty good deal for $3500 I'm on the fence on the Genesis quality SD40-2. I have several of the RTR and that may be enough for now. Good deal? Umm ok. Very few REAL men in America would ever agree with both of you on that though. we call that "rich dummy problems" Well hold up, Maybe you are a PROFESSIONAL bicyclist that makes hundred of thousands of dollars a year from a $3500 bike? If so then I guess it is a good deal. otherwise, NOPE. How's that any different than the shelf full of Overland brass diesels that you have? |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 21, 2015 12:58:09 GMT -8
I don't really know if I can choose one of the options - I'm between, 1) I don't need an SD40-2, and 2) I would purchase one for under $200 (because they are such a classic diesel and I still like the classic clean EMD styling).
My primary railroads of interest didn't run engines which looked like the SD40-2 so that makes it hard for me to justify spending a high price - high to me is in the $150 to 200 range for a non-sound diesel. The money I have available for the hobby will be down markedly in the next couple years so it's going to be tough to cope with the newer higher prices - whatever I do buy I will need to feel strongly compelled toward. That isn't necessarily a bad thing as it's time to start shifting my budget toward adding decoders to existing engines etc. I do own two KATO SD40-2s (one UP and one BN) as they were guests on the D&RGW or pooled on coal trains - the UP SD40-2 were seen mixed with SP SD45's and tunnel motors in the 1970's out west.
I'll let the primary fans of the SD40-2 carry these polls and watch from the side lines. Mostly I'm pretty happy with what has been offered on the market to date - I'm mainly waiting on the SP version of the Athearn RTR SD40 (with light package), that's really the only diesel I really want now. Most of the boxes are check for me - I can't complain.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 21, 2015 14:22:22 GMT -8
Model railroaders buying $1000 engines or other that get cut in half may pause questioning a bicycle or manlyness or dummy hood
I am sure people look at train guys and dumb girly men
Enjoy the bike
But be safe
Too many bad drivers out there
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Post by roadkill on Jan 21, 2015 18:29:54 GMT -8
Model railroaders buying $1000 engines or other that get cut in half may pause questioning a bicycle or manlyness or dummy hood I am sure people look at train guys and dumb girly men Enjoy the bike But be safe Too many bad drivers out there Tell me about it  . Half the thrill of riding my Harley is watching out for all the a**hole drivers that are seemingly out to get me  ! |
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Post by GP40P-2 on Jan 21, 2015 23:22:44 GMT -8
Curt: The Atlas Rescue Forum isn't a real great sampling of the model railroad community as a whole, so my poll was not meant to have any statistical validity. Simply a quick measure of the somewhat surprising lean toward existing SD40-2 models that has been shown in some of the recent topics. I have no bias either way as neither of the two roads in the area I model had them (one did have the "modified radiator option"), though occasional run-through UPs did occur. I'll be curious to see how the two polls trend and end up. The single vote and the modified price levels should make it interesting. And before I contribute to the post drift, I am perfectly happy with this "hobby cross over" unit (which has no justification what so ever on my railroad),except for the wavy handrails:  Big Al: Friends don't let friends ride junk. Since we have at least three other cyclists on here, we can help you . There is no bike "too expensive," just ones that we don't have enough money for. No I am not rich or a pro, but I have been riding and racing for a long time. I have had seasons that have paid for my bike, though I am just kind of fat and slow now... Ride a couple of 15k mile seasons, or do a downhill at close to 60 mph and ask again the value of the bike you are on. You do know that at the turn of the last century, cycling was more popular than baseball? Check out one of America's first great pro athletes, a cyclist named Marshall "Major" Taylor, just google the name and learn some interesting history about a pretty awesome guy.. Roadkill: You Harley guys are our big brothers who put up with much of the same nonsense from some motorists. Keep it safe out there. Bike guys: Glad to hear there are others on here! Jim |
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Post by enginseer on Jan 22, 2015 6:42:52 GMT -8
And apparently got a pretty good deal for $3500 I'm on the fence on the Genesis quality SD40-2. I have several of the RTR and that may be enough for now. Good deal? Umm ok. Very few REAL men in America would ever agree with both of you on that though. we call that "rich dummy problems" Well hold up, Maybe you are a PROFESSIONAL bicyclist that makes hundred of thousands of dollars a year from a $3500 bike? If so then I guess it is a good deal. otherwise, NOPE. Well, while I wouldn't ever consider calling someone a "dummy" on an open forum for any reason, I'll take the bait. Model railroading is just one of my hobbies and cycling, Mountain Biking in particular, is the one I spend most of my time and money on. Do I compete competitively? Sure, but it is something I love to do and I budget accordingly. Earning a living at it would be a dream come true, but sadly that isn't possible. Custom, competitive level bikes near the 10k mark... and go higher, BTW. In addition, many folks have easily more than $3500 in brass locomotives, are they not "real men"? Or am I completely missing the point of your post? |
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Post by curtmc on Jan 22, 2015 19:48:29 GMT -8
Curt: The Atlas Rescue Forum isn't a real great sampling of the model railroad community as a whole... How true Jim... Likely a lot more high end modelers here, and probably few of the majority of the hobby (like those content with Bachmann and all the old Athearn blue box)... This forum likely doesn't see as many of the "content with less detailed" hobbyists as hobby shops see and the general HO marketplace has. A much higher percentage of the posters here are more detail oriented modelers, including many complaining about incorrect details, asking for better details, and likely willing to pay more. For example, how many on this forum would find the Bachmann ES44 details acceptable? (Maybe 10%?) The reality is probably 70% of the overall remaining market does. |
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 23, 2015 13:21:00 GMT -8
Curt: The Atlas Rescue Forum isn't a real great sampling of the model railroad community as a whole... How true Jim... Likely a lot more high end modelers here, and probably few of the majority of the hobby (like those content with Bachmann and all the old Athearn blue box)... This forum likely doesn't see as many of the "content with less detailed" hobbyists as hobby shops see and the general HO marketplace has. A much higher percentage of the posters here are more detail oriented modelers, including many complaining about incorrect details, asking for better details, and likely willing to pay more. For example, how many on this forum would find the Bachmann ES44 details acceptable? (Maybe 10%?) The reality is probably 70% of the overall remaining market does. So then, your poll really is flawed. You need to go start a new poll on the Bachmann forum. |
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