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Post by Mark R. on Jan 26, 2015 17:11:33 GMT -8
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Post by dtinut on Jan 26, 2015 17:18:05 GMT -8
It's interesting to note they are planning to have 2 fuel tank sizes - 800 and 1600 gal tanks.
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Post by atsfan on Jan 26, 2015 17:57:33 GMT -8
Hasn't Athearn sort of carpet bombed the GP7 market over the past two years ?
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jan 26, 2015 18:36:10 GMT -8
Hasn't Athearn sort of carpet bombed the GP7 market over the past two years ? Yes, but it's a very target-rich territory given how many schemes the GP7 wore. I haven't made a study of it, but it strikes me there are quite a few schemes Atlas did in the past which Athearn hasn't done. And a lot of schemes Atlas did which they could run again and probably do well with, given the passage of time since earlier runs. I have quite a few Atlas GP7s -- among my favorites are the EMD Demo units. |
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jan 26, 2015 18:37:55 GMT -8
Hasn't Athearn sort of carpet bombed the GP7 market over the past two years ? Seems like it, although there are always plenty of novel paint jobs that will sell. May as well run the tooling before labor, assembly and shrinking dollars make it unviable. Is there a definitive list anywhere of who makes what diesels in HO down to specific phases? Maybe they are hitting gaps that athearn missed? |
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Jan 26, 2015 18:51:35 GMT -8
Hasn't Athearn sort of carpet bombed the GP7 market over the past two years ? Seems like it, although there are always plenty of novel paint jobs that will sell. May as well run the tooling before labor, assembly and shrinking dollars make it unviable. Is there a definitive list anywhere of who makes what diesels in HO down to specific phases? Maybe they are hitting gaps that athearn missed? One Atlas website resource, specific to Atlas of course, is "Past HO Scale Releases" at: www.atlasrr.com/hoproducts.htmLists their offerings back to circa 2000. Stuff made in the 1990s is missing, as may be special runs for Hobby Shops or Clubs. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jan 26, 2015 19:02:49 GMT -8
Hasn't Athearn sort of carpet bombed the GP7 market over the past two years ? Not really there are so many possibilities with the GP7. Original owners like CNW have used at least five different paint and lettering schemes on their GP7's. Then you have all the second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. owners of the GP7. Many of the original GP7 owners simplified the usually elaborate EMD designed paint scheme. B&O comes to mind. Look at B&O. You have the original with the blue, gray, black and gold stripes, blue with yellow ends and Chessie with B&O markings. I may have left some B&O schemes out and I'm sure I did. The Atlas unit also appeals to different modelers from the Athearn. For those that want brute pulling power, the Atlas GP7 with the die cast sill and walkways is the way to go. The Atlas model is also not highly detailed like the Genesis and is more rugged for those that don't like the ultra fragile model. So this is one of those issues where a modelers taste dictates what brand they choose for their GP7 needs. |
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Post by Mark R. on Jan 26, 2015 19:56:22 GMT -8
Personally, I would take an Atlas GP7 over a Genesis any day.
Mark.
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 26, 2015 20:46:10 GMT -8
The Atlas GP7 also had its little detail discrepancies, like everything else.
"New tooling for main frame and fuel tanks", so that could very well mean a switch to a plastic frame with a conventional metal chassis and drive, or just a rehashing of their old solid metal components albeit with two frames for the fuel tank variations (which were difficult if not impossible to modify if kitbashing something with no skirts).
And since the body tooling is the same, it likely still has:
-Cast-on fans (decent looking though)
-Radiator fan hatches not curling down the sides slightly like they should on the prototype.
-Cast-on rear brake ratchet (or has that been fixed in the previous run?)
-No walkway tread on the steps and battery boxes
-Limited horn options (tooling done only for the two single chimes on the hood sides)
-The ugly sand filler hatches
I'd still probably stick with P2K's.
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Tom
Full Member
Posts: 229
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Post by Tom on Jan 26, 2015 21:31:12 GMT -8
The Atlas GP7 also had its little detail discrepancies, like everything else. "New tooling for main frame and fuel tanks", so that could very well mean a switch to a plastic frame with a conventional metal chassis and drive, or just a rehashing of their old solid metal components albeit with two frames for the fuel tank variations (which were difficult if not impossible to modify if kitbashing something with no skirts). And since the body tooling is the same, it likely still has: -Cast-on fans (decent looking though) -Radiator fan hatches not curling down the sides slightly like they should on the prototype. -Cast-on rear brake ratchet (or has that been fixed in the previous run?) -No walkway tread on the steps and battery boxes -Limited horn options (tooling done only for the two single chimes on the hood sides) -The ugly sand filler hatches I'd still probably stick with P2K's. HO MASTER GP7 LOCOMOTIVE FEATURES: • New Die-cast tooling for frame/sill optional 800 gallon or 1,600 gallon fuel tank Interesting. |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 27, 2015 3:20:12 GMT -8
Personally, I would take an Atlas GP7 over a Genesis any day. Mark. Not me, at least the old GP7. I had two and didn't care for the all metal chassis where the skirt was solid with the fuel tank and ends were solid metal with molded in details. The Rio Grande version had the wrong size fuel tank to boot. I sold mine years ago and had no old geeps until I purchased my 2 Genesis geeps. Sure the shell was good but from the waste down it was fairly crude. Mine didn't run like Swiss watches either, they made a bit of a grindy noise - both numbers; not sure why as I believe they were the yellow box KATO drives - but it was mainly the solid metal chassis with the crude detail that was not up to snuff. Hopefully the re-issue will be much improved. |
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Post by Brakie on Jan 27, 2015 3:25:41 GMT -8
I will be interested in adding 2 Atlas GP7s to my roster to supplement my P2K Geeps.
Sorry,I'm still leery of Genesis locomotives due to the complaints on this and other forums..
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Post by riogrande on Jan 27, 2015 5:57:06 GMT -8
Larry, just return the Genesis if it is defective. If it is good, they are very nice.
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Post by grabbem88 on Jan 27, 2015 5:58:38 GMT -8
Although I built mine and did it wrong utilizing db's
I'd be all over an Atlas Amtrak "pumpkin" gp7 for the most part I thought they did it pretty good
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Post by bnsf971 on Jan 27, 2015 6:31:47 GMT -8
I thought the Atlas GP7 had worn out and broken tooling, and it was never going to be offered again?
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Post by rockisland652 on Jan 27, 2015 6:49:51 GMT -8
My Atlas Geeps are crude compared to Athearn's latest ones. The tooling is from...I dunno...1990? The P2K is similarly flawed and dated, with the giant radius at the top of the hood.
Only a complete retool works for me on the Atlas and P2k units.
Barring that, bring on more Genesis Geeps.
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Post by rockisland652 on Jan 27, 2015 6:53:42 GMT -8
Personally, I would take an Atlas GP7 over a Genesis any day. Mark. No way. Not without a completely retooled shell and frame. No sound is also a no go. |
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Post by bdhicks on Jan 27, 2015 7:49:41 GMT -8
I don't think I'll be needing any more GP7s, but if I do end up wanting more I can pretty much guarantee that I won't need them in as-delivered configuration. No removable skirts equals no go for me.
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Post by jaygee on Jan 27, 2015 7:54:53 GMT -8
For me: it's Proto first, Genesis, second...and Atlas a very distant third. I don't like the undersized trucks !
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Post by riogrande on Jan 27, 2015 8:07:39 GMT -8
No removable skirts equals no go for me. The tooling on the Atlas GP7's made previous to now is 25 years old and showing it's age. I was fairly happy with the shell details on my two yellow box GP7's, but the paint looked gray rather than black - and D&RGW GP7's should be black. The problem with the chassis is that it was all molded one-piece so there couldn't be a separate fuel tank - it was all solid and didn't look so good because of it. The D&RGW GP7'2 had a small fuel tank so there was a significant gap, where the tank was in-set quite a bit from the side skirts, which "as-delivered" were solid, but later had the cut-out slots for inspection purposes. The ends had all molded in details which by todays standards are crude - and the paint didn't stick to the metal so well and chipped off. The Atlas GP7 in 1990 may have been decent but even in 1990 the designed could have been better - such as having the lower sides, skirting etc. plastic - ends too. The technology was there - the Stewart F unit shells still look quite nice to me (sans the mold lines) - the air grills along the sides - while not etched metal - have good detail and relief. I balked at the Atlas classic GP7's when they were re-issued in my favorite road name and ultimate passed due to the price and that they only marginally improved over the yellow box units I sold off - visibly the paint looked better with actual black this time rather than gray, and a better shade of orange. (it doesn't help that all of the D&RGW GP7's were off the roster by 1972 except #5108, which lasted into the early 1980's - my main interest is 1970's and 1980's so when funds are tight, marginally useful engines get passed over. Anyway, it will be interesting to see what upgrades arrive with the new production Atlas GP7 - and I expect the price will be correspondingly much higher. |
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Post by rockisland652 on Jan 27, 2015 9:26:30 GMT -8
I am corrected, having read the announcement sheet. There will apparently be sound versions as well. Loksound ones. Ugh.
Far more tempting is the RI red. This only works if the model does not have the details of the barber pole delivery scheme engines, like the Intermountain yellow/maroon wings FP-7s had.
Ok, I just looked at my metal framed Atlas geep and the shell is seriously dated in tooling. It was good for its time, but has been surpassed.
I will wait and see on this one.
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Post by Brakie on Jan 27, 2015 9:26:54 GMT -8
Larry, just return the Genesis if it is defective. If it is good, they are very nice. Jim,That thought has been nagging me for the last two weeks after I eyeballed a SCL GP9 with DCC/Sound for $150.00..I know they all can't be bad but,sooner or later my luck will run out and I will need to return a defective Athearn locomotive.The warped handrails on my SW1500 was easy enough to replace since I e-mailed Athearn a photo of the problem.I had replacements within a few days.Even the few RTR FMC boxcars that had their stirrups laying in the car's try was a easy fix. |
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Post by riogrande on Jan 27, 2015 9:49:51 GMT -8
At some point your luck may run out ... I've had to return a few over the years or have Athearn customer service resolve a few things; to date have been able to get a satisfactory resolution.
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Post by TBird1958 on Jan 27, 2015 10:25:54 GMT -8
I have a couple of the China production Atlas GP-7s, they certainly have their good points as loco for layout use, the heavy frame helps with tractive effort but for me, it's complete lack of detail or option on tank size are a definite downside, that pot metal is an exercise in futility if you want to add parts like sand lines to your model. The China production versions did use a better, correct wheelbase truck that was first used on the GP40. At the very best the detail on the shell is generic, nothing railroad specific and the decoration on the Rio Grande ones shows a similar lack of attention with the end stripes being incorrect on the large herald version. Further, one of my two suffered the destruction of all of it long handrails as it came out of the box - the shell separated from that heavy frame at a high rate of speed - probably my fault, that said, Atlas has never had any replacements available for the China production engines - most disappointing. At some I'll find some aftermarket GP-7 stanchions and bend my rails so it's not the end of my world, just important to note that Atlas can't always support their product. In comparison, my 3 Genesis GP-9s are flawless, certainly the equal for drivetrain quality and hands down clear winner in every aspect of attention to railroad and individual unit details. The Rio Grande units have differing radio antenna, fuel tanks and striping, the underframes are very nicely done, complete with sand lines, plumbing and conduit - Atlas is a distant second. Don't get me wrong I like my Atlas units just fine, they run well with other units and as layout engines perform nicely, the Genesis units are just a whole different ballgame. Not much detail here....  Genesis, lots of detail here and it's easy to add the re rail frogs!Plus you can see thru the frame cutouts, very nice on a unit with a small tank.  Atlas fans aren't bad, Genesis are better.   Atlas on the left, note the stripe variations, the large herald units were different than the small herald. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jan 27, 2015 10:46:34 GMT -8
I have purchased the Chinese Atlas handrail sets when the Kato ones were NLA. They are a thinner diameter and look better.
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Post by scl1234 on Jan 27, 2015 10:49:34 GMT -8
... that said, Atlas has never had any replacement hand rails available for the China production engines - most disappointing. At some I'll find some aftermarket GP-7 stanchions and bend my rails so it's not the end of my world, just important to note that Atlas can't always support their product. I'm sure that, at some point in time, Atlas had a sufficient stock of handrails. Just that they either sold out quickly or sold many to one person who's now doing a "marked up Atlas parts" business on that auction site. Atlas should limit their parts orders to no more than two of a single item in each order to avoid the above situation. |
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Post by markfj on Jan 27, 2015 12:51:26 GMT -8
I always felt that Atlas locomotives were a step up in both performance and appearance to Athearn BB models of the 80s and the “RTR” models of the 90s. But that was then; now the Genesis line seems to be the reigning king of second generation geeps.
Atlas seems to have fallen off pace with its competitors a little (a lot?). I remember the comments they made when closing down their forums, that they (the forums) were taking time and resources away from the development of new products.
Thanks, Mark
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Post by grahamline on Jan 27, 2015 13:44:33 GMT -8
Several interesting things on that PDF, including an upgraded MP15DC. The Atlas offerings are great for people with operating railroads, and people who like to standardize on a family of decoders. Probably hoping too much to get the low numberboards on the front end of UP units, though. Maybe they will kick out a GP9 shell to fit the GP7 chassis. With Proto prices climbing, it would be nice to have an alternative on a high-quality chassis. Some visual-dimensional oddities remain on the Athearn Geeps, in my humble opinion, and both the Proto and Atlas units capture the general feel of the units, details aside.
Nice to see Atlas getting back into its stride.
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Post by alcoc430 on Jan 27, 2015 14:52:05 GMT -8
Several interesting things on that PDF, including an upgraded MP15DC. The Atlas offerings are great for people with operating railroads, and people who like to standardize on a family of decoders. Probably hoping too much to get the low numberboards on the front end of UP units, though. Maybe they will kick out a GP9 shell to fit the GP7 chassis. With Proto prices climbing, it would be nice to have an alternative on a high-quality chassis. Some visual-dimensional oddities remain on the Athearn Geeps, in my humble opinion, and both the Proto and Atlas units capture the general feel of the units, details aside. Nice to see Atlas getting back into its stride. Whats upgraded on the MP15DC? It looks to be the same description as the prior models |
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Post by Judge Doom on Jan 27, 2015 14:53:50 GMT -8
My Atlas Geeps are crude compared to Athearn's latest ones. The tooling is from...I dunno...1990? The P2K is similarly flawed and dated, with the giant radius at the top of the hood. Only a complete retool works for me on the Atlas and P2k units. Barring that, bring on more Genesis Geeps. Actually, the Proto is probably closer than the others on the market. If you look at the photos here: www.planomodelproducts.com/GP9pics.html Specifically these 3: www.planomodelproducts.com/GP9pics/P1000231.JPGwww.planomodelproducts.com/GP9pics/P1000232.JPGwww.planomodelproducts.com/GP9pics/P1000233.JPGYou'll find the hood roof radius is quite pronounced, and does start lower on the hood sides than most think (looks to start to curve around the 6" mark). Also, note how the roof radiator hatches curve down a bit with the sides, something not present on the Atlas unit (I'm not sure about the Athearn) Someone on another list even measured the Athearn unit and it came up short in terms of not having enough of a radius curve at the roof sides compared to the prototype. |
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