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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Mar 2, 2015 17:32:20 GMT -8
Even early Amtrak on the Santa Fe is cool. Ex and I rode Amtrak in about March of 74, it still was called the Super Chief/El Capitan and Santa Fe kept their more modern units and sold the F units, still in Red Warbonnet, to Amtrak. It was enjoyable, I only wish I'd been more interested in photography of trains at the time. I still cook scrambled eggs with chives in them as was served in the diner. I did dip into Walthers El Cap series when that came out, mine is pulled by warbonnet PA/B power. Welcome Sammy, another voice from the past.
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Post by SantaFeSammy on Mar 2, 2015 17:49:20 GMT -8
Thanks all for the welcome. I've been on here a while, just don't post a whole lot. I do drop in from time to time to lurk, though! Attachments:
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Post by jamesbrodie67281 on Mar 3, 2015 5:21:59 GMT -8
I model AT&SF late 20s to mid 50s,,,,El Capitan for one train, and war-bonnet silver red FTs F3s and F9s................James Brodie.
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Post by jaygee on Mar 3, 2015 5:45:21 GMT -8
For steam..gotta be the 5011 Class. For the rest of my SF endeavors: Passenger service 1938 to the bitter end !
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Post by bar on Mar 3, 2015 8:21:13 GMT -8
When I was seven or eight, MDC's version of this ATSF car was the first I had seen that had more than just the railroad's name on it. It was in the literal sense a shock, as I had no idea what it meant but if they had to make it really big and really bold, it must be really important. Also, I thought, how in the world does one CONTROL SHOCK? Seemed like a huge contradiction in terms, even to a kid. That was when the Santa Fe became this presumptuous, pre-possessive, larger-than-life entity with all the answers that became permanently imprinted on my young brain.
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Post by railfan4life on Mar 8, 2015 17:09:20 GMT -8
I model the ATSF along with D&RGW in the early 90s. My layout is based on the Santa Fe/Rio Grande Joint Line that ran along Colorado's Front Range between Denver and Pueblo. Here's a link to my layout's YouTube channel if you want to check it out. www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vW_TiprCLM6OkJUBjl00g
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Post by riogrande on Mar 9, 2015 4:43:06 GMT -8
I model the ATSF along with D&RGW in the early 90s. My layout is based on the Santa Fe/Rio Grande Joint Line that ran along Colorado's Front Range between Denver and Pueblo. Here's a link to my layout's YouTube channel if you want to check it out. www.youtube.com/channel/railfanlayoutBeen a while since we've seen you. When I lick on your link it says the channel does not exist.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Mar 9, 2015 6:41:32 GMT -8
Jim.....click on the uRL in his signature line. Bob
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Post by Spikre on Mar 9, 2015 10:25:03 GMT -8
SF2099, what has been read here is that the Erie S Class was indeed an AMC design or at least partly designed between the AMC-Erie, ALco, and Lima. Alco didn't like the Articulated trailer truck that many of the Lima Super Power locos used. when C&O tested the S Class it was both the Alco and Lima engines,or the Baldwin Lima copy.the AMC blew up the S class mainly following the Alco frame design,and the best boiler parts from all 3 builders. the T class Texas was the result. Erie could have ordered the T class,but also had the larger Texas and 2-6-6-4 designs from Baldwin to choose from,the Depression killed any more Erie locos after the last S and C-1 classes were delivered in 1930. Baldwin was late to Super Power,but the designs for Erie showed they caught on fast. when the NKP S class was designed the C&O T was shrunk back to 2-8-4 by the AMC. this does make the Erie S class the Daddy of all AMC Super Power. later C&O/AMC did copy the NKP S Class for their Kanawha locos of the late 30s and 40s with the latest advancements. Spikre
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Post by railfan4life on Mar 9, 2015 12:52:02 GMT -8
I model the ATSF along with D&RGW in the early 90s. My layout is based on the Santa Fe/Rio Grande Joint Line that ran along Colorado's Front Range between Denver and Pueblo. Here's a link to my layout's YouTube channel if you want to check it out. www.youtube.com/channel/railfanlayoutBeen a while since we've seen you. When I lick on your link it says the channel does not exist. Thanks for letting me know. It's fixed now. But the link in your quote is still wrong, so you have to go back to my post or click on the link in my signature block. www.youtube.com/channel/UC-vW_TiprCLM6OkJUBjl00g
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Post by calzephyr on Mar 9, 2015 13:30:16 GMT -8
For steam..gotta be the 5011 Class. For the rest of my SF endeavors: Passenger service 1938 to the bitter end ! I agree. The 5011 class engines were really a great locomotives
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Post by WP 257 on Mar 9, 2015 13:33:26 GMT -8
SF2099, what has been read here is that the Erie S Class was indeed an AMC design or at least partly designed between the AMC-Erie, ALco, and Lima snip this does make the Erie S class the Daddy of all AMC Super Power. later C&O/AMC did copy the NKP S Class for their Kanawha locos of the late 30s and 40s with the latest advancements. Spikre Yes, perhaps (I have read the Berkshire and Texas Types book), but I was speaking aesthetically, and the Erie S Class Berkshire appears to be slightly different from all the later AMC engines. I think the Erie S Class just plain "looks better", that's all. YMMV.
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Post by atsfan on Mar 9, 2015 16:45:05 GMT -8
For steam..gotta be the 5011 Class. For the rest of my SF endeavors: Passenger service 1938 to the bitter end ! I agree. The 5011 class engines were really a great locomotives Is that brass ?
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Post by Spikre on Mar 9, 2015 17:41:06 GMT -8
SF2099, passed on the book "Berkshire and Texas Types" as felt they short changed the Erie S Class locos overall. untill they were built all previous built ones topped out at 63" drivers. the Erie S locos took Super Power to its Ultimate design parimiters,and added Speed. the Book just fell Flat from reality it was felt here.70" drivers did make a difference. now what was the Ultimate Van Swerigen Berkshire ? was it the C&O 2700s ? or the L&N Class M-1 ? the vote here is for the Class M-1,but it is real close. C&O was sort of Schitzy with the 2700s,they were run well on Passenger trains,but Over Loaded on the Coal Trains,just like the Alleghenies were. the Later 74" drivered ATSF Texas locos built on the Erie Speed envelope and were Great Locos. while the PRR Js were over loaded usually on the PRR coal trains [still with 69"drivers]. just opinions now,but did miss seeing the S locos by a few years. Spikre
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Post by WP 257 on Mar 9, 2015 20:31:22 GMT -8
Too young here to have ever seen any of them. I just like the classic early 1930's look, or articulateds that have the USRA look. I prefer N&W original USRA Y-3's as modernized with the BL fwh during the '30's, and DRGW USRA copy L-107's over the bigger mamajamas that came later on for both railroads. I've seen the last Baldwin engine, C&O 1309, all stuffed and mounted (I know it's going to run again). I can love the C&O 2-6-6-2 over the bigger guys.
Ultimate Van Swerigen Berk? I'm a traditionalist there...has to be the NKP S-3, because it "looks better" dome-arrangement-wise than the others, though they may have outperformed it.
A friend of mine actually rode the cab of one of the NKP Berks on one of the fall fan trips through the New River Gorge.
To me the Santa Fe 5011 Class has not always gotten its due, but many diehard ATSF fans say the railroad actually preferred the 2-10-2's in Arizona due to all the curvature. The 5011's were allegedly "slippery"...
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Post by Spikre on Mar 10, 2015 10:19:45 GMT -8
SF2099, C&O 1309 was the last Baldwin built for a U.S. road, 1949. they did build Pacifics and Mikes for India during 1955. NKP 779 was the last Lima Steam loco built,was about a week later than the last L&N M-1,1949. P&LE 9406 was the Last Alco Steamer Built,6/48,a 63" drivered fat boilered Berkshire. L&N M-1 had almost full Roller Bearings on the Lima built order,and cast driver centers,BoxPok maybe? no Roller Bearings on the Crank Pins. NKP S-3 was not full Roller bearing equipped,but the earlier W&LE Berks that NKP took over were Roller Bearing equipped on all engine and tender axles at least.NKP did switch some tenders after 1950.NKP Berks had Spoked drivers. considering NKP was known for speed,it seems odd they didn't go with Full Roller Bearings and Solid Cast Drivers. the Santa Fe 5011s may have been too lite for their Power Output,like the PRR T class ?? maybe they should have been kept in the flatter areas ? Spikre
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Post by calzephyr on Mar 10, 2015 10:50:41 GMT -8
I agree. The 5011 class engines were really a great locomotives Is that brass ? It is and was imported by Global Outlet about 15 years ago. It is very well detailed and rare. I have the PFM 5011 also but this one is very nice. You might enjoy seeing a couple of my other Santa Fe steam models. Larry This is the 3752 which was the only SF loco that had poppet valves installed.
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Post by WP 257 on Mar 10, 2015 14:24:42 GMT -8
Spikre--
Oops, typo., sorry, yes the last Baldwin was C&O 1309...
I thought the NKP S-3's had roller bearings as delivered, at least on the engines...perhaps I read incorrectly.
The Santa Fe 2-10-4's did gravitate toward the "flatter" portions of railroad (except Santa Fe was not really flat). They rolled mile long reefer blocks with ease.
According to the PRR men, who operated Santa Fe 5011 class engines right alongside the J1's during 1956 or so, the J's could start more train, but the 5011's could roll their train faster. That sums the difference up pretty succinctly.
Nice model photos of the Santa Fe steam.
A preliminary sketch was done of a super northern which would have taken the boiler off the 8 (7 remaining after a wreck) ex-N&W 2-8-8-2's and put it on a 4-8-4. Santa Fe loved the free steaming USRA boilers, but did not care for the slow speed of the true mallet compounds.
I wonder if anybody has ever built a "model" of such a 4-8-4??
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Post by Spikre on Mar 10, 2015 18:21:46 GMT -8
SF2099, in the late 60s/early 70s Tom Dressler was building the "Never Was" N&W Y7 simple articulated. believe He finished it,but don't recall seeing pics of it. NKP was run by C&O until 1947,so they may have had price constraints placed on them by C&O[or the Allegheny Holding Company]. think the late C&O 2700s had almost full Roller Bearings applied. will have to look for C&O Power this week and check this further. one oddity amoung the True Van Swerigen Berks was that P.M. Berks had built up frames as a cost saving option.the P.M.s weren't used too often in coal service even after the C&O Merger. will look for more info on the NKP engines,but don't recall them being full Roller Bearing equipped other than loco axles. Mainline had articles over the years on most or all Berks that were based on the Van Swerigen Pattern. the L&N M-1 actually weren't,but could be considered Improved Van Swerigen Pattern Berks. Full Roller Bearings except on the Crank Pins. Full Cast Steel Frame with Integral Cylinders,not standard on all Van Swerigens. Cast Steel Drivers,Boxpok,or Baldwin ? 4503 maximum HP at 42 MPH.,79,390 LBS of Tractive Effort,about 10,000 of that from the Booster. from "Railway Mechanical Engineer,October 1949. Spikre
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Post by lajrmdlr on Jun 24, 2017 14:43:25 GMT -8
Committed complete heresy by decaling a Kodachrome SW1500 "SF". Excuse being somehow Santa Fe got it in the "Shouldn't Paint So Fast" merger attempt & kept it by "hiding" it on their Los Angeles Junction Ry. >}
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Post by jbilbrey on Jun 24, 2017 18:47:10 GMT -8
While Santa Fe may be gone, it is hard not to have some interest in the railroad. Just today, I saw two ATSF-painted locomotives far-removed from ATSF rails in Middle Tennessee. I've run into railfans while chasing a local excursion train who asked me if the warbonnet 8-40BW was in the consist and if so, was it leading. And if you ask my 6-year-old son what's his favorite railroads are, one that he'll mention is the Santa Fe.
Back to model railroading, my son's three favorite locomotives in my collection are a Bowser/Penn Line L-1 lettered for Santa Fe, a BLI RSD-15, and a [BN]SF 8-40BW. In my own freight car collection, the Santa Fe is probably under-represented.
James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2017 19:01:43 GMT -8
According to "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail" the Santa Fe purchased 3 L-1's secondhand during WWII.
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Post by talltim on Jun 26, 2017 3:32:05 GMT -8
Of the modern big four (plus the two Canucks), BNSF have the only paint scheme I don't like so if I was was modelling the area then is would have to be in ASTF days.
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Post by riogrande on Jun 26, 2017 4:26:35 GMT -8
I've never much cared for the post ATSF and BN merger BNSF paint schemes either, diesel or freight either. I guess in recent years I've joined the "it's all crap now" club LOL and other than watching real railroads for the "drama of it" I prefer using model railroading, like many others, to hearken back to the days when many US railroads were still independent.
The Santa Fe has a lot of appeal to it to be sure - the paint schemes of the engines and the freight cars have been appealing. But since I can't "have it all" and model 6 or 7 of my top favorite fallen flags, I vicariously enjoy them as bridge traffic thru the Rockies and across the deserts of Utah. From observing 1970's and later photographs, ATSF freight cars were common visitors so I've been making sure to buy representative cars like those from ExactRail, Athearn Genesis, Moloco and others, mainly box cars but some hoppers were visitors too, including coal cars and cement, and grain hoppers. Atlas makes a lot of fallen flag box cars too, but many are semi-stand-ins so I am selective about Atlas.
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Post by Brakie on Jun 26, 2017 4:59:17 GMT -8
As far as Santa Fe steam the 1950 class 2-8-0 will always get my vote..Ok..Ok..I'm bias because I had a United 1950 Class 2-8-0 back in the '60s.
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Post by roadkill on Jun 26, 2017 6:33:42 GMT -8
Don't model the Santa Fe beyond several freight cars but I am a big fan of the road as it was in the mid Seventies. Still a lot of minority make diesels around and nice mix of Bookend and Warbonnet scheme locos.
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Post by jbilbrey on Jun 26, 2017 20:58:32 GMT -8
According to "Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail" the Santa Fe purchased 3 L-1's secondhand during WWII. And IIRC, they were scrapped shortly after WWII. The problem with the L-1 is it is so far outside anything I model, I really don't have much drive to continue on with the project. Whoever started it did a good job with the building as it has most of the detail parts added. It just falls short in the cosmetic department. The paint is badly chipped and the lettering is incorrect; they didn't even get the roadnumber right - just using ATSF 4567. I'd rather put my efforts into the Atlas 8-40BW. It is hard to go wrong with any DCC-equipped locomotive for $50. Even if I don't model the BNSF, the 8-40BW's did wander a bit before being placed in local service. As I wrote earlier, a local shortline has a few, so getting a "walk-around" detailing purposes was a cinch. The prototype locomotive [BNSF 539] is still painted in a Warbonnet that isn't showing the drastic weathering that other ex-ATSF units have displayed. James Bilbrey LaVergne, TN
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Post by stevewagner on Jul 5, 2017 19:17:23 GMT -8
My model railroad is supposedly set in upstate New York, and most of my locos are Delaware & Hudson or Boston & Maine, with nearly all the rest being from lines that connect with them. But I do have a fair number of Santa Fe freight cars and a caboose or two. (The cabeese in my collection represent a geographically much broader spread of railroads than my locos.)
My firsthand experience of Santa Fe trains was limited to three occasions. The first was at and near Dearborn Station in Chicago in April 1970, to and from which I rode the CN and GTW International from and to Toronto. The second was a work week in Abilene, Kansas while doing research at the Eisenhower Library in the summer of 1982. The main railroad in town was the Union Pacific's ex-Kansas & Pacific mainline to Colorado, but the ATSF had a major branch to Superior, Nebraska with a modest engine terminal very close to the Library. The third was riding Amtrak's Southwest Chief from Kansas City to Chicago following my second visit to the Truman Library in Independence, MO in February 1986.
Most of my Santa Fe cars are boxcars and reefers, the older ones from the 1940's into the 1960's mostly advertising the line's many passenger services. (The only other railroad that featured several different passenger trains on its boxcars was the Seaboard, and I have models of several of them as well.) I did see Santa Fe covered hoppers carrying grain in Boston, probably in the 1980's or 1990's, and I have a pair of Proto 2000 ATSF PS-2CD's, one with the Santa Fe name only in a small circle cross herald, the other with a largish Santa Fe, as souvenirs of the grain trains I saw in Abilene. I also have a couple of Santa Fe express boxcars, along with many from other roads.
The one Santa Fe loco model I'd like to have is a Alco "Alligator" in the old black and silver zebra striped livery, though possibly with the big Santa Fe name on the sides of the long hoods. (Many of us D&H fans have a soft spot for Also diesels, and the D&H didn't have any of that type.) One of the best things I wrote on the old Atlas forum was a plea for Alco Alligators in German and in English set to the tune Beethoven wrote for Schiller's "Ode to Joy" in the fourth movement of his Ninth Symphony. Broadway Limited Imports added such models to its line after that.
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Post by jonklein611 on Jul 6, 2017 5:49:16 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Jul 6, 2017 6:24:03 GMT -8
I don't actually need any ATSF, but maybe someone does. Thanks for the link on the Utah but I have to plan ahead for engine's and I can't afford it right now. Hopefully BLI will re-run them again and I can plan for a couple at that time.
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