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Post by Spikre on Feb 28, 2015 18:02:22 GMT -8
 wonder why there isn't too much of a calling for Genesis E8/9s ? almost all on the market have some issues,run bad - original Rivarossi's. body isn't quite rite - Proto and maybe the Roco/Model Power versions. or are by BLI which seems to bring a shudder of Fear to many here. so Why Not a Genesis E8/9 ? Athearn has always shyed away from All E units,what are they afraid of ? Spikre 
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 28, 2015 18:20:32 GMT -8
I'd take a Genesis E8/9.
The Rivarossi is train set quality in body and mechanism.
The Model Power's body is better than the Rivarossi but a lot less than the Proto original version. Plus the Model Power is a meat grinder, but can pull an elephant.
Proto 2000 first releases by Life-Like has a decent mechanism but it isn't DCC ready. The area behind the Farr grilles is very poorly done. The roof is too round and the nose is too round. It also suffers from a pile of delrin detail parts.
Proto 2000 last releases by Life-Like when they introduced the B-unit. These are now DCC ready and the area behind the Farr grilles is nicely done.
Proto 2000 first release by Walthers has a little different chassis but is basically the same as the last release by Life-Like
Proto 2000 since the Union Pacific E's a few years ago, have the "improved" nose and prototype detailing. The body now no longer uses the fuel and water fills snapped to the "fills" on the tank, but has catches on the inside the shell like the BLI E8/9. The Tsunami sound is a major improvement over the old QSI which I think sounded more like a helicopter than an E-unit. But Walthers now uses some printed on detail, like its an old Marx toy printed on steel.
Broadway Limited's first E8/9 have fans that too small, openings on the winterization hatches that are too small, a horrible back door detail, old style Hyatt roller bearings, no detail behind the Farr grilles - the ribs are present but no radiator shutters, poor front door, fuel tank is too wide so they slotted it to clear the engine room steps. But the nose contour is good as is the roof contour. The QSI sound is awful
Broadway Limited's second run has LED's, first had bulbs, but the crappy QSI sound remains.
BLI's last runs have the Paragon II chip which is maybe ever so slightly better than the QSI.
NONE of the above E's allow for porthole window removal. Unless you like to sand, scrape, etc.
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Post by atsfan on Feb 28, 2015 18:24:34 GMT -8
No, but there is for a SD40-2.
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Post by calzephyr on Feb 28, 2015 18:52:36 GMT -8
wonder why there isn't too much of a calling for Genesis E8/9s ? almost all on the market have some issues,run bad - original Rivarossi's. body isn't quite rite - Proto and maybe the Roco/Model Power versions. or are by BLI which seems to bring a shudder of Fear to many here. so Why Not a Genesis E8/9 ? Athearn has always shyed away from All E units,what are they afraid of ? Spikre The E8/E9 would be all new tooling and probably would sell very well if they had the panels like the F units so any variation including the modifications made to many of them later in commuter service. I would be interested in a high quality model to supplant my Overland units which are very slow but beautiful. BLI has supplied them also along with the Proto models and those really old and out of date Rivarossi units. The Proto models just are not what I wanted even with the later better grills. The grills on the first run by P2K were just poor. Larry |
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Post by onequiknova on Feb 28, 2015 20:40:39 GMT -8
There is definitely room for improvement over what has been available. I remember reading either here, or the old Atlas forum, that the design work for a Highliner like E8 has been done, but too much competition has kept it on the drawing board. I wonder if there is any truth to that.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 28, 2015 22:09:47 GMT -8
Why do a "Highliner" E8?
Everyone knows the Highliner F's were a disaster. They just wouldn't sell. People were happy reworking their Tyco shells.
Oh?
Uh, well, uh, never mind.
Emily, uh, Ed
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2015 1:27:18 GMT -8
When Brosdway brought out their E7, I compared it to the Highliner nose/windshield area. For all intents and porposes, the front was all I was concerned about. The nose/cab area. It matched the Highliner shell nearly exact. Everything else was second fiddle. I wasn't concerned about the radiator or the grill area. The E unit nose was more important to me than the rest of the unit, and still is and always will be. The E3/6 nose by both Proto and BLI is definatley wrong. I will live with the way the BLI E8/9 body looks. It doesn't bother me as much as it does to some of you.
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Post by riogrande on Mar 1, 2015 5:32:22 GMT -8
Why do a "Highliner" E8? Everyone knows the Highliner F's were a disaster. They just wouldn't sell. I didn't read the comment about High Liner E units the way you did. Rather the shell/design itself for the F's is the best on the market in HO so a High Liner E would be Genesis quality as are the High Liner based F units. They would, of course, have to be produced through a major model RR company and not sold by Mr. Lubliner. |
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Post by railthunder on Mar 1, 2015 5:58:57 GMT -8
I would like to see Rapido do one down the road. Seeing them consistent improve their products and listening to their customers scores huge with me and my wallet. Actually, I would love to see the whole family done from the E4, E5, E7, E8 and 9 in high quality and railroad specific detail including with/without portholes.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 1, 2015 6:25:57 GMT -8
I sometimes think this hobby is missing the trees for the forest. Expectations have become so high. Sometimes I think the expectations of specific detailing, etc. is too much for any platform to be successfully tooled to produce all the variations.
It would be nice to have flexibility in tooling. Not even the Highliner shell which is maybe by far still the most advanced tooling doesn't cover all the variations of the ubiquitous EMD F-Series. There are no provisions in the Highliner for partial or complete porthole removal. You can't build C&NW commuter F's out of the Highliner shell and Genesis drive without doing some major surgery.
The E8/9 is a rat's nest of one offs. Towards the end of passenger service on the Milwaukee Road, I don't think any of the Milwaukee's E9's looked the same, each had little differences. Don't even bring the Milwaukee Road's commuter E9's into the dialogue as they became individualized too. A manufacturer could chase its tail for years trying to keep up with all the variations of the Burlington Northern E9Au's. BN changed the HEP exhaust, cooling fans, louvers, paint, fuel tank/battery box, rear marker light on about a yearly basis until the mid-1980's when the E9Au's were finally on their last legs.
What about the Union Pacific and its fuel fill in the side of the body? They are the one and only to do such a modification. Some went to CNW and Rock Island as secondhand units and others to Amtrak. Some kept the high fill, others had it plated over still some had it removed completely. Amtrak really hacked away at its E-unit fleet.
The Rock Island on its ex-UP E8's and 9's rebuilt them with F-style number boards. How do you tool a nose with the standard flush E9 number board and stick the F-style in the same place. Better yet, CNW and others removed the number boards.
What about the E8/9's that had the nose door removed and made flush? RTA, Metra and UP come to mind.
I don't know if you could ever tool a shell to rope in all the little details. Maybe the ultimate E-unit is like the Highliner shell where you get the nose, roof contour, fan size and provisions for porthole removal. For the people that want to do commuter with HEP or other butched E's that is left to people to actually do some modeling and build it themselves.
You'll notice that Athearn in the Genesis line has not ever tackled the CNW commuter/executive F's, Norfolk Southern's executive F's or the BN's executive F's. The Highliner shell just isn't tooled to easily or accurately do models of those prototypes.
I'll also say that anyone that tries to do the ultimate E8/9 will get raked over the coals if they don't get ALL the details right. Walthers approach of close counts and the sheep will buy, didn't work out with the Amtrak HEP E9, maybe if they had dipped it in phase II paint it would have flown but phase I died a quiet death.
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Post by riogrande on Mar 1, 2015 7:24:33 GMT -8
From what I have read, it sounds like none of the E units made have been "right" in terms of major body features, let alone details, but I've only been a casual reader in the debate. The E units are immaterial to D&RGW modelers unless you are modeling the hand off of the CZ in Denver from the CB&Q to the Rio Grande, not that their weren't other E units in Denver but that is modeling other RRs.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 1, 2015 8:05:41 GMT -8
From what I have read, it sounds like none of the E units made have been "right" in terms of major body features, let alone details, but I've only been a casual reader in the debate. The E units are immaterial to D&RGW modelers unless you are modeling the hand off of the CZ in Denver from the CB&Q to the Rio Grande, not that their weren't other E units in Denver but that is modeling other RRs. Precisely, neither the Proto or Broadway Limited E's are correct in all major body dimensions. The Proto's roof contour and side grille area is wrong. The roof is too curved resulting in the grilles being too short. This in turn throws off the windows and though the nose and curve of the nose is better, its still not Highliner correct. To Walthers credit they have modified their trucks to allow for either the older style Hyatt roller bearings of square and slopped, plus the modern Hyatt roller bearing cover of circular. Broadway Limited got the nose, roof contour and windows correct. The fans are of 1970's tooling and too small. This in turn has made the twin winterization hatches too small, especially the screened area. BLI's E8/9's also have the early Hyatt roller bearings represented on the trucks. This is great for some of the E7's and all earlier E's in BLI's catalog. But the E8's had the modern round Hyatt roller bearing cap. Both the Proto and the BLI have hideous back door detail, bulkhead, MU and cut bars. They are just wrong, wrong, wrong. I don't know if you can throw a net wide enough to corral even 75% of the various railroad initial specifications and modifications in one shell. Maybe in the end a solid platform, aka "Highlineresque" and close enough will satisfy the masses. But then again, why put something on the market that you will get criticized and loose sales numbers because the nose grabs on just one railroad were longer than the "standard". Again, even the much vaulted Highliner isn't tooled for funky long nose grabs or UP F9m style side grabs that arched up and bolted to the roof instead of the sides. Too many people expect to take a factory built model out of the box and have it be as every bit as good or better than a John(onequiknova) model. Sorry folks ain't goin' happen. John puts a lot of sweat equity into his models, do you think the factory can copy it as well? |
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Post by Spikre on Mar 1, 2015 10:33:58 GMT -8
 by 1973 EL had 3 groups of E8s that were left. 832-833 kept their High Speed Gearing and Steam Boilers,used mainly on Inspection Trains. some were re-geared for freight service,but kept boilers for the Port Jervis trains until the Push-Pulls took over late 73 or early 74. some were rebuilt with 38" wheels,lower gear ratio for Freight service, steam units removed and weight added to stop them from being slippery when starting freights. most had All or Some of the Portholes removed by the 70s. only 817 had all the Porthole windows intact by CR Day. Proto/Bev Bel/ ELHS did a model of 817,it also still had its door headlite, most had been removed by CR Day. a lot of diversity for a small as E unit fleets go. but before CR Day it had been decided to use the E unit V-12s to repower the Alco RS-3 Fleet,even with all the work done to the "Heavy" Es,they were still only marginally successful as Freight Power,unlike the Alco PAs,or even the Erie Built F-Ms on a few other roads[ none on EL]. Spikre 
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Post by jlwii2000 on Mar 1, 2015 11:21:40 GMT -8
I sometimes think this hobby is missing the trees for the forest. Expectations have become so high. Sometimes I think the expectations of specific detailing, etc. is too much for any platform to be successfully tooled to produce all the variations. It would be nice to have flexibility in tooling. Not even the Highliner shell which is maybe by far still the most advanced tooling doesn't cover all the variations of the ubiquitous EMD F-Series. There are no provisions in the Highliner for partial or complete porthole removal. You can't build C&NW commuter F's out of the Highliner shell and Genesis drive without doing some major surgery. The E8/9 is a rat's nest of one offs. Towards the end of passenger service on the Milwaukee Road, I don't think any of the Milwaukee's E9's looked the same, each had little differences. Don't even bring the Milwaukee Road's commuter E9's into the dialogue as they became individualized too. A manufacturer could chase its tail for years trying to keep up with all the variations of the Burlington Northern E9Au's. BN changed the HEP exhaust, cooling fans, louvers, paint, fuel tank/battery box, rear marker light on about a yearly basis until the mid-1980's when the E9Au's were finally on their last legs. What about the Union Pacific and its fuel fill in the side of the body? They are the one and only to do such a modification. Some went to CNW and Rock Island as secondhand units and others to Amtrak. Some kept the high fill, others had it plated over still some had it removed completely. Amtrak really hacked away at its E-unit fleet. The Rock Island on its ex-UP E8's and 9's rebuilt them with F-style number boards. How do you tool a nose with the standard flush E9 number board and stick the F-style in the same place. Better yet, CNW and others removed the number boards. What about the E8/9's that had the nose door removed and made flush? RTA, Metra and UP come to mind. I don't know if you could ever tool a shell to rope in all the little details. Maybe the ultimate E-unit is like the Highliner shell where you get the nose, roof contour, fan size and provisions for porthole removal. For the people that want to do commuter with HEP or other butched E's that is left to people to actually do some modeling and build it themselves. You'll notice that Athearn in the Genesis line has not ever tackled the CNW commuter/executive F's, Norfolk Southern's executive F's or the BN's executive F's. The Highliner shell just isn't tooled to easily or accurately do models of those prototypes. I'll also say that anyone that tries to do the ultimate E8/9 will get raked over the coals if they don't get ALL the details right. Walthers approach of close counts and the sheep will buy, didn't work out with the Amtrak HEP E9, maybe if they had dipped it in phase II paint it would have flown but phase I died a quiet death. Very good point, I'm surprised some manufacturers try anything new anymore with new tooling. Tons of money invested, blood sweat and tears of the RD crew only to have something that modelers complain about that's subjective or an oversight that caused a detail to be missed. Today's manufacturers must have pretty thick skin.
As for the E8 and E9, they have been produced so many times there isn't a huge desire for them even though some of the previous models are missing certain details. Walthers is producing the UP executive E9's which I do look forward to though. -James
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Post by riogrande on Mar 1, 2015 18:04:33 GMT -8
As for the E8 and E9, they have been produced so many times there isn't a huge desire for them even though some of the previous models are missing certain details. -James May be, but that could have been said about F units and just count how many have been done: Globe Athearn, Stewart, Bachman Plus, MRC, Proto 1000, Walthers Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis, Broadway Limited, and a few I can't think of. The ultimate E unit has yet to be done although I think we've gotten pretty close with the F. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 1, 2015 18:37:35 GMT -8
As for the E8 and E9, they have been produced so many times there isn't a huge desire for them even though some of the previous models are missing certain details. -James May be, but that could have been said about F units and just count how many have been done: Globe Athearn, Stewart, Bachman Plus, MRC, Proto 1000, Walthers Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis, Broadway Limited, and a few I can't think of. The ultimate E unit has yet to be done although I think we've gotten pretty close with the F. Beat old P2K's are fetching sixty and above on e-Bay, so there is demand for E's. Both BLI and Walthers each sell out their runs of E's each and every time they do a run. People said the same thing about the Athearn Genesis/Highliner model and Athearn has put a lot of cash in the bank on that model. |
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Post by curtmc on Mar 1, 2015 18:52:11 GMT -8
Unfortunately they are not producing the modernized version (with current or even 1990s details) and the ditch lights will not be functional...
Frankly the reason nobody is rushing to do E units is that several manufacturers have done them already and other than the UP executive units (and the BN commuter Es) not that many modelers can remember them in service anymore (and a shrinking number every year)...
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Post by markfj on Mar 2, 2015 4:58:46 GMT -8
Unfortunately they are not producing the modernized version (with current or even 1990s details) and the ditch lights will not be functional... Frankly the reason nobody is rushing to do E units is that several manufacturers have done them already and other than the UP executive units (and the BN commuter Es) not that many modelers can remember them in service anymore (and a shrinking number every year)... Curt, that is almost exactly the comment I was going to make.
I’m 46 and the only connection I have to a really E unit is seeing (and volunteer working on) the two E8s that were preserved and run on the BM&R in the 80s here in Reading.
Were it not for that connection, I’m not sure how interested I would be in that particular locomotive as a model.
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Post by Brakie on Mar 2, 2015 5:19:03 GMT -8
Bob,A Genesis C&O E8A might be tempting for modeling the Sportsman in '68 but,seeing there's lots of LL P2K E8As around at the fraction of the cost of a Genesis E unit I might go that direction since this passenger train would be ran at the club..
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 2, 2015 7:32:23 GMT -8
Frankly the reason nobody is rushing to do E units is that several manufacturers have done them already and other than the UP executive units (and the BN commuter Es) not that many modelers can remember them in service anymore (and a shrinking number every year)... Well then how come there is a Genesis F-unit? Genesis as built GP7/9's? Your statement should indicate that Athearn is bankrupt for backing such losers. Unfortunately for you, Athearn is doing just fine with these models. If you were to take this train of thought and apply it to what is and what is not produced, then the ALCo C-430 and C-636 from Bowser should have been a dud. All the Walthers named trains should be choking the store shelves. The number of people modeling the Penn Central which is been in the history books since the mid-1970's should not be modeling the PC. Same goes for the kitten(Chessie) its been gone for many years. There are still plenty of E's in museum's and elsewhere. You have Iowa Pacific running luxury trains out of Union Station in Chicago with former Metra and BN E's in the Illinois Central inspired paint. Bennett Levin's two immaculate Pennsylvania E8's. Canadian National with its four former BN E9Au's. The E8 and E9 are still out there and still flashy. I guess the people that voted the Amtrak SDP40F the most wanted new locomotive on Athearn's Facebook poll should pack it in and forget. If model manufacturers were to only produce what people remember our selection of products would be very very thin. There are tons of books and videos which helps fuel the interest in things earlier than the 1980's. |
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Post by curtmc on Mar 2, 2015 7:54:44 GMT -8
The Genesis F units and GP7/9 were projects started about 16 and 10 years ago (respectively) when many in the primary market for those units were in their prime model buying years (upper 50s and heading into retirement - the generation that actually saw them in mainline use)... Unfortunately many of those modelers are no longer with us and the person that I knew that was most thrilled with the first Athearn Genesis ATSF F7 announcement regretfully wasn't around when Athearn finally delivered them. Whereas those units sold very well at first many of the recent runs have not sold well - and certainly not sold out as fast as the typical later Athearn Genesis units.
I can remember Chessie GP9s in service (about 1980) but the E units were gone many years prior. That's why I bought a pair of Genesis Chessie GP9s - at over 40% off because even the GP9s are now slower selling models. Many are still in stock a year after release...
Proto cashed in on the E units and absolutely flooded the market with them. I recall Timonium shows where they were $39 each, and that flooding of the market, and those THOUSANDS of models that will be back in the market in the coming years in estate sales, are among the many reasons why nobody is rushing to do another E unit.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Mar 2, 2015 9:00:19 GMT -8
I bought a slew of Proto 2000 E-units, haven't come close to wearing any of them out, and would NOT be replacing them with Genesis-level units were they to be made. I'm a bit younger than, but not far from, the demographic curtmc describes (and am hoping it'll be a LONGGG time before mine are in an estate sale). The only E's I've bought since the Life-Like Proto 2000 runs have been those matched to a Walthers name train, such as the 20th Century Limited-specific NYC E7s. Were Walthers to do a Phoebe Snow train (Hint, Hint, HINT!!!), or possibly some other name train, I would buy upgraded E's for that train. Proto 2000 did the Lackawanna scheme, but not the later Erie Lackawanna scheme. Guess they didn't think there was enough difference between the two. I think Bev-Bel did a run of the Erie-Lackawanna E's, but I didn't pick any up and am not looking for them at this point.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Mar 2, 2015 9:38:36 GMT -8
Contributing to any lack of sales of Athearn Genesis F's, at least at this location, was the incredibly bad (unrepairable) assembly job on the Big Sky F's. The black NP F's I looked at also missed a sale for a similar reason--not as bad, but I "needed" them less.
In marked contrast, by the way, to my really excellent BN Genesis F's.
But I'm only a single sale, so maybe everyone else thought them acceptable. Dunno.
Ed
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Post by rockisland652 on Mar 2, 2015 10:38:46 GMT -8
As a child of the 1970s, I remember vividly the Rock Island museum pieces that graced the passenger trains, plus some on freight as well (saw an ABBBA set on a freight at track speed). This is, of course, the time period of my layout as well.
Having seen two massive transformations of what I view as the best E7 and E8 out there by the master of all things E: John Tyson, I can say that a major update would be most welcome. I would advocate for and acquire Highliner E units in bunches.
Sorry, folks, the Proto E's look ridiculous parked next to a Highliner F unit. Not even worth the $39 bucks, although Jim has done fine work with them, turning them into fairly passable models.
The BLI is better...closer...but there is much that could and should be improved.
Yep, I'd buy more than a few Highliner E's.
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Post by markfj on Mar 2, 2015 11:14:26 GMT -8
Tom, your talking the older Proto models (blue box), not the “improved” Walthers E8 with corrected nose contours? Yes, I know even that one isn’t perfect, but I thought it was suppose to be best RTR one you can buy. That’s based on what I’ve read on this forum. The BLI has issues with front and end, but the best roof shape.
I just sold off my “cheap” $35 Proto E8s on that well known auction site. Got more then what I paid for them, so I’m happy.
Back to the whole conversation about people buying what they saw in operation: there were still some second generation diesel in mainline service well into the 90s around my home town of Reading. But they’re gone now, so anybody in their mid to late 20s might not relate to them as well as I would. So, I don’t know how well the Genesis GP-7 models sold initially, but there sure seems to be a lot of them up for auction on eBay. Of that class of locomotive, I think I saw maybe one or two rebuilds back in the day, but that’s it. Yes, you can see them in movies and pictures, but I would still say the majority of us are motivated by personal experiences when we buy model trains. At least, I know I am.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 2, 2015 11:27:23 GMT -8
The question is why would Athearn or some else tool up a Genesis level E8/9, it should be why not tool up a Genesis level E8/9. Athearn tooled up and spend the bucks on a GP39X which had all of six units.
Some of the naysayers on this thread are the same people that said the ALCo C-430 would never sell and never be produced in model form. Hmmmmm Lee English at Bowser is counting the Benjamin's from that "flop". Guess the pundits don't always accurately predict the future.
The bottom line is none of us on this thread are in the business and can say for sure this or that will or will not be built. This thread is basically a wishlist in which those who want this particular model will try to shout out those that don't. All input is biased one way or the other.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 2, 2015 11:34:22 GMT -8
Tom, your talking the older Proto models (blue box), not the “improved” Walthers E8 with corrected nose contours? Yes, I know even that one isn’t perfect, but I thought it was suppose to be best RTR one you can buy. That’s based on what I’ve read on this forum. The BLI has issues with front and end, but the best roof shape.
The BLI E8/9 is still hands down better than the slightly re-tooled Proto. The Proto's nose is still as round as a basketball. The windows are slightly improved. Because Walthers did nothing with the much too round roof contour, they could only go so far with nose and window corrections. In plain simple English - the shell is still highly flawed. The back door on the Proto is still a mess. All Walthers did was remove the cheesy Life-Like operating diaphragm. BLI's backside also has a cheesy operating diaphragm. It is actually worse than the Proto. BLI's back door is tooled for HO scale people under five feet! If BLI corrected and improved the cooling fans and winterization hatches AND dumped the horrendous Paragon II sound, it would totally blow the Proto E away. Walthers is using the Proto E now to compliment its named trains. The next E8's are an A-B set for the Baltimore & Ohio Capital Limited. BLI should have another run of the E8/9 shortly. So you assume there is still demand for this model. |
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Post by rockisland652 on Mar 2, 2015 13:24:38 GMT -8
Tom, your talking the older Proto models (blue box), not the “improved” Walthers E8 with corrected nose contours? Yes, I know even that one isn’t perfect, but I thought it was suppose to be best RTR one you can buy. That’s based on what I’ve read on this forum. The BLI has issues with front and end, but the best roof shape.
Co-rect. The improved Proto is still off due to the roof contours that lead to the sides being wrong and...you already said as much. The BLI at least needs a redo of the back due to that awful diaphragm assembly. Fortunately, that's a relatively easy fix. The other issues require major surgery. Bring on the Genesis E8s! Or Rapido...just sayin'. Jason has a scanner and he ain't afraid to use it. |
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Post by calzephyr on Mar 2, 2015 13:40:55 GMT -8
Tom, your talking the older Proto models (blue box), not the “improved” Walthers E8 with corrected nose contours? Yes, I know even that one isn’t perfect, but I thought it was suppose to be best RTR one you can buy. That’s based on what I’ve read on this forum. The BLI has issues with front and end, but the best roof shape.
The BLI E8/9 is still hands down better than the slightly re-tooled Proto. The Proto's nose is still as round as a basketball. The windows are slightly improved but because the roof contour is still much too round you can only go so far with correcting the nose and windows. The back door on the Proto is still a mess. Neither BLI or Proto have a good backside. If BLI corrected and improved the cooling fans and winterization hatches AND dumped the horrendous Paragon II sound, it would totally blow the Proto E away. Walthers is using the Proto E now to compliment its named trains. The next E8's are an A-B set for the Baltimore & Ohio Capital Limited. BLI should have another run of the E8/9 shortly. So you assume there is still demand for this model. The E units are listed by BLI for April and probably are the best available RTR units for the EMD E unit diesels. It looks like they ignored the rear of the unit counting on a B unit or an addition A unit to hide the details. The Paragon sound is part of the BLI package now and they do not offer non sound units any longer. That sound can be replaced but now the price is way higher. As you have said, there must be a market if they are importing them again soon, but probably in small quantities. Larry |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Mar 2, 2015 13:58:27 GMT -8
The E units are listed by BLI for April and probably are the best available RTR units for the EMD E unit diesels. It looks like they ignored the rear of the unit counting on a B unit or an addition A unit to hide the details. The Paragon sound is part of the BLI package now and they do not offer non sound units any longer. That sound can be replaced but now the price is way higher. I'm sure the Paragon II sound or the highway that BLI has adopted for all its releases, not just E-units, has cost a few sales. If Paragon II was BETTER, it wouldn't be such a big deal. Compared to Soundtraxx and LOK, the Paragon II doesn't even come close. Tsunami at least has a twin 567 E-unit decoder, I don't think LOK has released that flavor yet. True at $289.98 for the next run of E's from BLI, ripping out the Paragon II and installing Soundtraxx or LOK is not only an additional $80 or more dollars, its electronic surgery. As you have said, there must be a market if they are importing them again soon, but probably in small quantities. Larry The last run, which was just two years ago is slim to none pickings even on e-Bay. Proto units on e-Bay number in the hundreds, each and every day. A "glut" of BLI E8/9's on e-Bay is about 15. Many times its less than ten and some or nearly all are older runs. People seem to buy and hold on to BLI E8/9's and they hold their value much better than the Proto E8/9's which were over produced which why they had been so cheap. But even those prices are climbing for units in excellent used condition or still brand new in the box. You can get bargain Proto E8/9's but they may be used and abused. |
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