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Post by bncascadegreen on Jun 30, 2015 12:35:11 GMT -8
Like the title states?
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Post by Judge Doom on Jun 30, 2015 13:11:17 GMT -8
Lots of money, lots of patience, and lots of hair to turn grey.
And if Railflyer's past is any indication, someone competent in dealing with people and customer service.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 30, 2015 14:03:59 GMT -8
That depends on what kind of company. If you wanted "your" company to do resin car kits or photoengraved parts, you can do it yourself with an investment of maybe a few thousand. And you'll most likely need a day job the whole time--starting up and keeping running.
If'n you wanna be Athearn-like, lotsa money and being very good on who to hire to do what.
Either way, your reputation is VERY IMPORTANT. Mistakes should be very few and resolved very quickly.
Ed
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jun 30, 2015 14:45:55 GMT -8
Find a BUSINESS FORUM out there for your answer, but the answer not going to come from a Model Train Forum.
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Post by Brakie on Jun 30, 2015 15:35:02 GMT -8
Have millions and watch the money slowly disappear?
I would think long and hard before starting a hobby business since your fooling with modeler's disposable income and that could dry up overnight if the economy slumps or other important money eating matters come up like a new car or long term health issues. What that means is the first to go in hard times is hobby spending--some even sell their models.
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Post by marknycfan on Jun 30, 2015 16:40:19 GMT -8
WHAT would it take....I'd agree with Ed, what type of company are you talking about?
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Post by roadkill on Jun 30, 2015 17:22:23 GMT -8
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 30, 2015 17:32:17 GMT -8
I will disagree, as I said earlier. You don't need a lot of money to get into a model railroad business. The two examples I mentioned take very little capital at all. They DO take a LOT of time/work. And they require making the RIGHT decisions. Mistakes can easily destroy the business. And these businesses will likely never make the owner rich. But the OP didn't specify being rich, did he? And if you want to kick in a bit more money, you can do injection casting like Grandt Line. I've seen the Grandt Line "production facility". I didn't see tons of capital expenditure in evidence. Again, work real hard and don't make mistakes. You'll likely survive. Ed |
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Post by roadkill on Jun 30, 2015 17:41:28 GMT -8
I will disagree, as I said earlier. You don't need a lot of money to get into a model railroad business. The two examples I mentioned take very little capital at all. They DO take a LOT of time/work. And they require making the RIGHT decisions. Mistakes can easily destroy the business. And these businesses will likely never make the owner rich. But the OP didn't specify being rich, did he? And if you want to kick in a bit more money, you can do injection casting like Grandt Line. I've seen the Grandt Line "production facility". I didn't see tons of capital expenditure in evidence. Again, work real hard and don't make mistakes. You'll likely survive. Ed I don;t disagree with you, but I guess it depends on what one want's their company to be. BLMA and Rapido had to start out with much $$$$ as what they've accomplished don't come cheap. The investment isn't all that much if you're looking at someone the size of, say, Plano, JJL Models, the late and very lamented Rail Yard Models, etc., then your initial investment would probably be quite reasonable. Now if somehow you could integrate your company into your present vocation like State Tool and Die or what Gordon Cannon did, then that could be an option. |
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Post by peoriaman on Jun 30, 2015 17:45:39 GMT -8
Want to make a small fortune in the model railroad business? Start with a large fortune.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 30, 2015 17:58:56 GMT -8
Now if somehow you could integrate your company into your present vocation like State Tool and Die or what Gordon Cannon did, then that could be an option. Yeah, it's natural and convenient to build off of what you already know. Cliff Grandt also was a machinist before he started making injection molds for our benefit. Ed |
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Post by atsfan on Jun 30, 2015 18:12:41 GMT -8
Depends on what you want to do?
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Post by bigblow69 on Jun 30, 2015 18:33:09 GMT -8
Want to make a small fortune in the model railroad business? Start with a large fortune. A passion and desire for it first of all no matter what people tell you. |
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Post by areibel on Jun 30, 2015 19:14:52 GMT -8
Want to make a small fortune in the model railroad business? Start with a large fortune. LOL! That's paraphrasing what a friend of mine says, to make a million in the model railroad business start with two! A lot depends on your skills to start. Resin casting is not hard to learn, but you have to have a decent master to start with (unless you're a certain Ebay seller, then just copy whatever you want?) If you're good enough to make something from scratch and copy it, you can get started that way. If you're good with CAD, you can do 2D or 3D drawings and farm them out- 2D for laser cut items, 2D drawings can get you started with etching as well, make your design and if you don't want to turn the basement into a chemistry lab send it off to someplace like PPD Ltd and they'll send you the finished product back. 3D designs can be sent to Shapeways, I-Materialise, Pokono, etc.. you can offer it as is through them but the most successful ones I've known have started with say a Shapeways master and dressed it up a bit, then made their own resin copies. Or use a small table top CNC mill and with some skill you can turn out some respectable stuff, like this- www.ttnut.com/new-boxcar-available-soon-t2501.htmYou do need to develop the skills, but any of these could be done for a reasonable amount (a couple thousand dollars or less, if you have to buy the CNC machine!) If you're thinking anything injection molded projects start adding zeros to the end of that. I model in TT scale and most of the "new" stuff is coming from small companies or even one man operations but for a dead scale we're not doing too bad! Al Reibel |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 19:14:53 GMT -8
[/quote]A passion and desire for it first of all no matter what people tell you.
[/quote]
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Just ask Jason Shron. I'm sure he has an answer for you.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 30, 2015 20:33:44 GMT -8
I look forward to further contributions from the OP.
Mr. Green. Surely you have more to contribute.
Ed
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Post by Judge Doom on Jun 30, 2015 21:16:44 GMT -8
If you want to run a successful business, you need three things. But, YMMV.  |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 1, 2015 3:27:42 GMT -8
I don;t disagree with you, but I guess it depends on what one want's their company to be. BLMA and Rapido had to start out with much $$$$ as what they've accomplished don't come cheap. The investment isn't all that much if you're looking at someone the size of, say, Plano, JJL Models, the late and very lamented Rail Yard Models, etc., then your initial investment would probably be quite reasonable. Now if somehow you could integrate your company into your present vocation like State Tool and Die or what Gordon Cannon did, then that could be an option. One major correction; Railyard Models was a very good company that made great products (the owner just wanted out and no respectable buyers came forward). Railflyer is the disaster of which you are speaking. |
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Post by scl1234 on Jul 1, 2015 4:14:13 GMT -8
In order of importance... 1. Customers 2. Business Plan 3. Lots of $$$ as mentioned above; you'll need #2 to borrow money. As for whether you'll be "happy" running this pastime/side hobby  as a business, consider that most small businesses don't earn a profit within the first two yrs. Few businesses can survive 3 or more years w/o turning a profit-made possible by current interest rates). Good Luck |
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Gene
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Post by Gene on Jul 1, 2015 5:43:42 GMT -8
One major correction; Railyard Models was a very good company that made great products (the owner just wanted out and no respectable buyers came forward). One major correction: There were several respectable buyers, but we could never fully agree on terms of sale. Everything else you said is pretty much correct. To add to the conversation, the most important thing you need to start a successful company is a product or service that people are interested in buying. And really big bottles of Tylenol. Gene |
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Post by rockisland652 on Jul 1, 2015 8:15:04 GMT -8
You can make a small fortune. First, start with a large one...
No, seriously, if you want to start a business, ask someone who has been successful in at least getting off the ground with one.
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Post by nightmare0331 on Jul 1, 2015 9:10:20 GMT -8
Find a niche and be good at it.
There's money to be made out there in this industry, you just have to be creative to get there.
Oh, and as someone else said, tylenol. Or Jack Daniels. Lots of it.
Kelley.
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Post by drolsen on Jul 1, 2015 10:44:45 GMT -8
One major correction; Railyard Models was a very good company that made great products (the owner just wanted out and no respectable buyers came forward). I believe he meant "lamented" in terms of everyone being sad to see RYM close up shop. Gene, great to see you here! Dave |
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Post by roadkill on Jul 1, 2015 18:09:21 GMT -8
I don;t disagree with you, but I guess it depends on what one want's their company to be. BLMA and Rapido had to start out with much $$$$ as what they've accomplished don't come cheap. The investment isn't all that much if you're looking at someone the size of, say, Plano, JJL Models, the late and very lamented Rail Yard Models, etc., then your initial investment would probably be quite reasonable. Now if somehow you could integrate your company into your present vocation like State Tool and Die or what Gordon Cannon did, then that could be an option. One major correction; Railyard Models was a very good company that made great products (the owner just wanted out and no respectable buyers came forward). Railflyer is the disaster of which you are speaking. Au contraire, I wrote what I meant to write. To lament something means you miss it dearly, as I do dearly miss Rail Yard Models. Railflyer, on the other hand, is a very UNLAMENTED company for many reasons. See Webster's definition: la·ment ləˈment/ noun noun: lament; plural noun: laments 1. a passionate expression of grief or sorrow. "his mother's night-long laments for his father" synonyms: wail, wailing, lamentation, moan, moaning, weeping, crying, sob, sobbing, keening; More |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jul 1, 2015 19:36:05 GMT -8
Get the spelling correct on the title?
If it is a model railroading company prepare to devote the time you used to use for model railroading and work on the business. One reason many little model manufacturers call it quits is because the business becomes a second job with long hours and little financial reward, if any. The "joy" of the hobby quickly becomes a drag.
Second, business owners that have to rely on others for parts, manufacturing, tool and die and other needs is one tough position to make work. Think of Detail Associates, who farms out their T & D and manufacturing. See how well that is working out right now.
Third, be prepared to get ripped if you can't deliver on time, make mistakes, pricing and just about everything that could be about your product. Look at all the butt kicking Athearn takes on this forum over bulbs! Hence, the pain reliever or other "spirits".
Fourth, shoe string operations have a really high failure rate. You need capital, do you have the money to flush down the sewer if the business is a bust? There is no "sure thing" in business. Business that touts itself as a sure thing are known as Ponzi schemes.
Fifth, you need to think about distribution, web sites and the possibility of selling directly.
Sixth, taxes. Sales, income, inventory or any other taxes your state may require along with the mandatory Federal.
Seventh will you have employees? Now you will be doing wages and taxes.
There is so much that goes into launching a successful business. You really have to think it out and make a rock solid plan. This hobby is littered with the seat of the pants operations, which promised so much and couldn't deliver in the end.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jul 1, 2015 21:05:24 GMT -8
Another thing, which I don't think anyone has mentioned, is not to alienate your customers or suppliers by asking a question and then not responding when they answer it.
Say, for example, a thank you.
Or, in addition, your evaluation of their input. They have just put some energy into trying to help you, and they like it when it appears that you have actually considered their responses.
Ed
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Post by dti406 on Jul 2, 2015 5:29:37 GMT -8
An example to note - North American Diesel Locomotive
They started out in the late 70's to produce a detailed SD40-2. They used a T&D Shell (Good for its time), Athearn Components with a turned around front truck, frame and motor and detail parts from Detail Associates and Details West per the prototype they were making.
They sold a number of their locomotives and Walther's had back orders for all they could produce, but it was a 2-3 man operation associated with a Toledo Hobby Shop so production was limited, also depended on Athearn for frames, motors and trucks which needed to be modified.
First GSB announced their SD40-2 and people passed on the NADL offering waiting on the GSB model, then Athearn out of the blue came out with their SD40-2 and Walther's immediately cancelled all backorder for NADL SD40-2's and both GSB and NADL exited the market.
Just Sayin!
Rick J
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jul 2, 2015 10:37:56 GMT -8
I screwed up in my reading of the posting and thanks for correcting me, Gene :-)
How many grey hairs did it create when running?
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Gene
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Post by Gene on Jul 2, 2015 10:42:18 GMT -8
How many grey hairs did it create when running? All of them. |
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Post by llxlocomotives on Jul 2, 2015 17:34:37 GMT -8
Did Edison anticipate GE, Ford expect Ford Motor? Of course they didn't. They had a vision. A passion. Then some level of success. And on and on. I think Ed is right, it does not take a large investment to make a product. But this product has to solve a unique void. Even Athearn started small. Look at their early catalogs. A few engines and a few cars. Atlas is another initially only sectional track. Then their offerings evolved. The catalogues were when they were big enough to need them. They likely were even smaller before that.
Don't expect to replicate the big guy's path. There are monsters looking for demand spots and they get one star for inventing it and two stars for using something that has a market. The Athearn SD40-2 is a perfect example. The two small guys had a product that was basically Athearn anyway and Athearn had more leverage. That is where the vision comes in. Regardless of their backing, they had a limited number of products.
To succeed you need a few cash cows, even if they are short lived. The exception is a FSM. They make a limited number of one product. Each year they come out with a new product. Enough different to be unique, but with similar materials and technologies.
In every case, the products make or break the company. Yes, the other things are important as well, but without products, it's just noise.
Obviously easy said, few success, much more failure examples.
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as a business, consider that most small businesses don't earn a profit within the first two yrs. Few businesses can survive 3 or more years w/o turning a profit-made possible by current interest rates).
