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Post by atsfan on Oct 9, 2015 18:11:24 GMT -8
www.bowser-trains.com/new/sd402.htmlThis pictures may not be new but I am just seeing them. They look pretty good. I have a vague notion of getting a CP engine since I saw these once on Cajon. Hope they run well.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 9, 2015 20:14:12 GMT -8
They're sure making an effort, I can see.
I am wondering how I can/could fit them in. Being as I don't model Canada.
But, hey. There's the new C-855! So I'm happy.
Ed
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Post by bdhicks on Oct 9, 2015 21:19:34 GMT -8
It's not that rare to see CP engines in the US nowadays, and the DME and ICE engines have been known to travel pretty far and wide as well.
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Post by fr8kar on Oct 10, 2015 2:17:33 GMT -8
They're sure making an effort, I can see. I am wondering how I can/could fit them in. Being as I don't model Canada. But, hey. There's the new C-855! So I'm happy. Ed If these models come out as nice as the preproduction photos portray, I'll have to find a way to squeeze in one or two on my roster. |
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Post by riogrande on Oct 10, 2015 2:53:26 GMT -8
Mostly the only SD40-2's I could use were those that ran on the D&RGW - BN or UP units. If Bowser does a future run of the SD40-2 in those road names I may be tempted.
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Post by TBird1958 on Oct 10, 2015 5:30:39 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Oct 10, 2015 5:52:20 GMT -8
Nice photo's Mark. Bowser are Canadian version right? So not sure how they are for UP or BN. I believe Intermountain will continue to upgrade their SD40-2 so will have to keep a watch.
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Post by antlorch on Oct 10, 2015 6:26:29 GMT -8
Originally Bowser said they would only be doing the Canadian version and not any US versions. I find it interesting if they did say now that they will be doing them. I believe this will be the best 40-2 on the market when available.
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Post by PennCentral on Oct 10, 2015 6:40:09 GMT -8
antlorch, I think what Bowser is saying is that they are going to do any US roadnames that are correct for their GMD SD40-2. I believe that will include a batch of Burlington Northern units that were built by GMD including this unit: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2443862Additionally, in the past 20 years, MANY former CP, QNS&L, and ONT SD40-2's have migrated to the US for service in lease fleets and on the rosters of shortlines and regionals. It's entirely possible that they may have since stated that they are going to tool a La Grange SD40-2 but I think the Internet, at least the model railroad related portion, would have melted down with excitement about that if it had been announced. Jason Cook |
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Post by riogrande on Oct 10, 2015 6:55:02 GMT -8
antlorch, It's entirely possible that they may have since stated that they are going to tool a La Grange SD40-2 but I think the Internet, at least the model railroad related portion, would have melted down with excitement about that if it had been announced. Jason Cook If that is true, ie there is a melt down of excitement of Bowser doing an EMD version of the SD40-2, well, that would sure be incentive to tool and offer it. It seems clear there is a desire for a top shelf version. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Oct 10, 2015 8:02:02 GMT -8
They are doing the GMD built units - BN owned a group that were made in London,ON. so Bowser will produce those specific units at some point, along with any U.S. secondhand owners of GMD built units. No La Grange units at all - They were adamant about not doing U.S. built engines, the gentleman I spoke with nodded to the Athearn booth across the way and said "they have that covered".
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Post by bdhicks on Oct 10, 2015 8:16:23 GMT -8
As I recall, the units GMD built for BN were purely US-spec (and that picture clearly shows the US-style numberboards and steps), so I'm doubtful Bowser will be doing those ones.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 10, 2015 8:56:04 GMT -8
It's not that rare to see CP engines in the US nowadays, and the DME and ICE engines have been known to travel pretty far and wide as well. True. But none of them seem to be SD40-2's. At least, along the Columbia. LOTSA current GE's, though. I've got a kupla Katos for that service. Ed |
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Post by TBird1958 on Oct 10, 2015 9:11:02 GMT -8
It's not that rare to see CP engines in the US nowadays, and the DME and ICE engines have been known to travel pretty far and wide as well. True. But none of them seem to be SD40-2's. At least, along the Columbia. LOTSA current GE's, though. I've got a kupla Katos for that service. Ed On the UP, they would come down via the Spokane International, I shot them outside of Hermiston, OR in 1983. |
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Post by sp8299 on Oct 10, 2015 9:25:38 GMT -8
As I recall, the units GMD built for BN were purely US-spec (and that picture clearly shows the US-style numberboards and steps), so I'm doubtful Bowser will be doing those ones. Not entirely. While they had US-style steps and number boards, they had other subtle Canadian quirks; longitudinal lap joint on the cab roof, smooth, non-ribbed blower housing, and Dofasco-cast trucks. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Oct 10, 2015 10:03:49 GMT -8
Here's GMD built BN unit.   |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 10, 2015 10:46:21 GMT -8
On the UP, they would come down via the Spokane International, I shot them outside of Hermiston, OR in 1983. Hmmmm..... Gets a person thinking. Thanks! Ed |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 10, 2015 14:32:48 GMT -8
They are doing the GMD built units - BN owned a group that were made in London,ON. so Bowser will produce those specific units at some point, along with any U.S. secondhand owners of GMD built units. No La Grange units at all - They were adamant about not doing U.S. built engines, the gentleman I spoke with nodded to the Athearn booth across the way and said "they have that covered". Athean sells a 30 year old unit. Hardly do they have the USA versions covered well. Bowser is missing the boat. |
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Post by Judge Doom on Oct 10, 2015 14:42:28 GMT -8
As I recall, the units GMD built for BN were purely US-spec (and that picture clearly shows the US-style numberboards and steps), so I'm doubtful Bowser will be doing those ones. Not entirely. While they had US-style steps and number boards, they had other subtle Canadian quirks; longitudinal lap joint on the cab roof, smooth, non-ribbed blower housing, and Dofasco-cast trucks. Still not enough to get Bowser to make them. If they do those BN units (that would require tooling up new "normal" steps/frame sills, hoods, handrails, etc) they might as well do every other EMD-built SD40-2 because aside from those small details, those BN units are essentially standard American -2's. I'm sure Bowser is optimistic about doing the BN units hearing some Canadian ones were built for them, but when they actually look into the details they'll have second thoughts. They are doing the GMD built units - BN owned a group that were made in London,ON. so Bowser will produce those specific units at some point, along with any U.S. secondhand owners of GMD built units. No La Grange units at all - They were adamant about not doing U.S. built engines, the gentleman I spoke with nodded to the Athearn booth across the way and said "they have that covered". Athean sells a 30 year old unit. Hardly do they have the USA versions covered well. Bowser is missing the boat. Bowser is looking at the saturated American SD40-2 market and making a wise business decision. They don't have to get on an already crowded boat for minimal gains if they don't want to. |
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Post by espeenut on Oct 10, 2015 14:52:08 GMT -8
They are doing the GMD built units - BN owned a group that were made in London,ON. so Bowser will produce those specific units at some point, along with any U.S. secondhand owners of GMD built units. No La Grange units at all - They were adamant about not doing U.S. built engines, the gentleman I spoke with nodded to the Athearn booth across the way and said "they have that covered". Athean sells a 30 year old unit. Hardly do they have the USA versions covered well. Bowser is missing the boat. ...and you're beating a VERY dead horse, I also talked with them in Portland, and they said, definitively, they will not be doing the EMD's. Their reason is sound financially, there are lots of modelers out there who are satisfied with the SD40-2's they already have on hand, so they most likely won't buy more. There's lots of modelers with Kato, Athearn and Intermountain units who are quite content with them. For Bowser, adding another one to an already full slate doesn't equate to a decent enough return on the investment. The GMD models are sufficiently different enough to warrant doing them and they are, lots of interest on both sides of the border for these. ...but I don't imagine that these explanations will keep you from finding that old dead horse to flog it some more...your wasting your time and we're growing quite weary of your rant... |
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Post by WP 257 on Oct 10, 2015 20:10:14 GMT -8
I asked Lee basically the same question, in person, at Bowser, several months ago. The following response is my own opinion but kinda summarizes what I learned from Bowser, that can be shared: They are running a business, and they have to make money to stay in business. There are too many other models that are "low hanging fruit" which, economically speaking, will be better sellers for Bowser, in their opinion, and based upon their own research. They share a factory with Atlas and Intermountain. Bowser does not believe they have anything to gain, financially speaking, from telling the person who tooled the Intermountain US version SD40-2, that it somehow isn't "good enough" and to do a "better US version" for Bowser. Forget about the fact that would be rude to their "partner", they just don't think they have anything to gain, at all. If there was something to gain, they might consider it, but ... there's no good reason to do it. This is purely about selling the number of units they have to sell to make a modest profit and stay in business. It does not matter what you or I think or how many times we want to post on this topic-- we are not the ones shelling out the cash for model development. Clearly Athearn, based upon statements quoted on other threads by others, is in total agreement on this issue--and they are the ones that might be better able to afford the risk of attempting yet another US version. I would never expect one from Atlas, and would be beyond shocked if a new company tries it as an early release. Please consider the horse to be flattened...lol.  Disclosure: Being now mostly steam, I have no dog in this discussion. I had a CP GMD SD40-2 unit pre-ordered directly from Bowser's store, but instead changed my pre-order to a BLI GN S-2. I was only able to make the change because they will have no trouble achieving a total sellout, so some lucky person will get mine. |
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chuckc
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Post by chuckc on Oct 10, 2015 20:58:42 GMT -8
Athean sells a 30 year old unit. Hardly do they have the USA versions covered well. Bowser is missing the boat. ...and you're beating a VERY dead horse, I also talked with them in Portland, and they said, definitively, they will not be doing the EMD's. Their reason is sound financially, there are lots of modelers out there who are satisfied with the SD40-2's they already have on hand, so they most likely won't buy more. There's lots of modelers with Kato, Athearn and Intermountain units who are quite content with them. For Bowser, adding another one to an already full slate doesn't equate to a decent enough return on the investment. The GMD models are sufficiently different enough to warrant doing them and they are, lots of interest on both sides of the border for these. ...but I don't imagine that these explanations will keep you from finding that old dead horse to flog it some more...your wasting your time and we're growing quite weary of your rant... Probably about half the folks here want a high end SD40-2 and they would probably buy them in relatively high quantities. If you don't like reading that, then too bad. |
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Post by espeenut on Oct 10, 2015 21:35:58 GMT -8
..."they" may want a "high end" SD40-2, but the current manufacturers have already determined that what we have is what we're going to live with. If you can talk someone into investing a sizable chunk of cash into all new tooling for another SD40-2 - High end or otherwise - with no guarantee of a decent return on that investment because decent models already exist, than by all means go for it, but it isn't going to be done by any current manufacturer so you'd better get searching for that benefactor and start your own company.
We've all been reading the same forums and judging from what I've read I seriously doubt that "probably about half the folks here" would "probably buy them in relatively high quantities", just read your own statement to understand this business fact, "probably" doesn't provide enough incentive to an investor to sink funds into such a project...
...so,"If you don't like reading that, then too bad."
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Post by bnsf971 on Oct 11, 2015 5:28:33 GMT -8
"Probably about half" "probably buying in high quantities" equates to about a tenth actually buying one. Maybe. IF it is absolutely perfect in every way, down to millimicron measurements. I know I wouldn't invest the cash needed to make the perfect SD40-2, on the hope I might sell 130 of them, spread across multiple roadnames and variations. And God help a manufacturer that gets lettering minutely off size, or doesn't add the gizmacallit that was only on three units during March of 1990- July of 1990. The model will promptly be called a fantasy, and shunned. Everybody will then vote with their wallet, and leave the manufacturer holding a 99+% perfect model that he can't sell.
If the manufacturer were lucky, he might be able to dump them for cost. If not, there would then be yet another "the hobby is dying" series as the manufacturer goes out of business because those same people that demanded what he produced refused to buy it.
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Post by milgentrains on Oct 11, 2015 5:45:24 GMT -8
"Probably about half" "probably buying in high quantities" equates to about a tenth actually buying one. Maybe. IF it is absolutely perfect in every way, down to millimicron measurements. I know I wouldn't invest the cash needed to make the perfect SD40-2, on the hope I might sell 130 of them, spread across multiple roadnames and variations. And God help a manufacturer that gets lettering minutely off size, or doesn't add the gizmacallit that was only on three units during March of 1990- July of 1990. The model will promptly be called a fantasy, and shunned. Everybody will then vote with their wallet, and leave the manufacturer holding a 99+% perfect model that he can't sell. If the manufacturer were lucky, he might be able to dump them for cost. If not, there would then be yet another "the hobby is dying" series as the manufacturer goes out of business because those same people that demanded what he produced refused to buy it. Reading all the posts here about a PC hopper or the artists drawing of a Ford F-100 being wrong would convince me never to get in this business. |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 11, 2015 6:14:28 GMT -8
..."they" may want a "high end" SD40-2, but the current manufacturers have already determined that what we have is what we're going to live with. If you can talk someone into investing a sizable chunk of cash into all new tooling for another SD40-2 - High end or otherwise - with no guarantee of a decent return on that investment because decent models already exist, than by all means go for it, but it isn't going to be done by any current manufacturer so you'd better get searching for that benefactor and start your own company. We've all been reading the same forums and judging from what I've read I seriously doubt that "probably about half the folks here" would "probably buy them in relatively high quantities", just read your own statement to understand this business fact, "probably" doesn't provide enough incentive to an investor to sink funds into such a project... ...so,"If you don't like reading that, then too bad." We dont "need" another high end GEVO but one is coming from Broadway. So one never knows what will be made. Many people said the same thing about Genesis GP40-2 before rhey came. Who would have guessed Fox Valley would make a GP60? Wonders never cease. |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 11, 2015 6:16:28 GMT -8
I asked Lee basically the same question, in person, at Bowser, several months ago. The following response is my own opinion but kinda summarizes what I learned from Bowser, that can be shared: They are running a business, and they have to make money to stay in business. There are too many other models that are "low hanging fruit" which, economically speaking, will be better sellers for Bowser, in their opinion, and based upon their own research. They share a factory with Atlas and Intermountain. Bowser does not believe they have anything to gain, financially speaking, from telling the person who tooled the Intermountain US version SD40-2, that it somehow isn't "good enough" and to do a "better US version" for Bowser. Forget about the fact that would be rude to their "partner", they just don't think they have anything to gain, at all. If there was something to gain, they might consider it, but ... there's no good reason to do it. This is purely about selling the number of units they have to sell to make a modest profit and stay in business. It does not matter what you or I think or how many times we want to post on this topic-- we are not the ones shelling out the cash for model development. Clearly Athearn, based upon statements quoted on other threads by others, is in total agreement on this issue--and they are the ones that might be better able to afford the risk of attempting yet another US version. I would never expect one from Atlas, and would be beyond shocked if a new company tries it as an early release. Please consider the horse to be flattened...lol. Disclosure: Being now mostly steam, I have no dog in this discussion. I had a CP GMD SD40-2 unit pre-ordered directly from Bowser's store, but instead changed my pre-order to a BLI GN S-2. I was only able to make the change because they will have no trouble achieving a total sellout, so some lucky person will get mine. Of the existing companies Broadway and MTH are most likely. And start ups do make new engines. |
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chuckc
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Post by chuckc on Oct 11, 2015 10:10:28 GMT -8
..."they" may want a "high end" SD40-2, but the current manufacturers have already determined that what we have is what we're going to live with. If you can talk someone into investing a sizable chunk of cash into all new tooling for another SD40-2 - High end or otherwise - with no guarantee of a decent return on that investment because decent models already exist, than by all means go for it, but it isn't going to be done by any current manufacturer so you'd better get searching for that benefactor and start your own company. We've all been reading the same forums and judging from what I've read I seriously doubt that "probably about half the folks here" would "probably buy them in relatively high quantities", just read your own statement to understand this business fact, "probably" doesn't provide enough incentive to an investor to sink funds into such a project... ...so,"If you don't like reading that, then too bad." No, I wasn't the one who said I didn't like reading somethings. I wasn't the one who said, "we're growing quite weary of your rant...". That was you, to which my response was appropriate. There was at least one perhaps two surveys here on wanting a high end SD40-2. About 50% of the posters said that they wanted one produced. |
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