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Post by mrsocal on Oct 9, 2015 18:15:06 GMT -8
I have been building this project for just over two years now and I need your help please. This is a 50' boxcar that i remember running through the Cajon Pass in the 1970's. I know that it was part of the California, Palmdale to Long Beach run. It carried Aircraft parts made in Palmdale out to Long Beachs, McDonald-Douglas plants to be assembled into complete airplanes. My problem is this, I can not find any prototype pics of this boxcar to weather from, can you help?  |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 9, 2015 18:26:32 GMT -8
Sorry I cant find any pictures of that car.
It is McDonnell Douglas.
If it was on Cajon and SP spray dust from the bottom and grime from the top.
Those cars were probably keep fairly clean.
I cant say I ever saw them.
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Post by Judge Doom on Oct 9, 2015 20:37:28 GMT -8
If my keen eyes aren't deceiving me, that appears to be an old Roundhouse 50' boxcar upgraded with a new door track, wire stirrups and grabs, and of course an etched metal roofwalk. I have seen shots of Hydra Cushion Sky Boxes on flatcars in similar colours, but haven't seen any of actual boxcars  |
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Post by ln1263 on Oct 9, 2015 23:43:28 GMT -8
You said that you saw this car running in service in the 1970's. I just noticed that there isn't any COTS plate or ACI label on this car. You will need both of those to truly model it from that time period. JM2C's. Andrew
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Post by stefano1 on Oct 10, 2015 4:18:08 GMT -8
The only photo I know of is in Anthony Thompson's SP Color Guide Vol. 1 where the caption of boxcar SP651596 states:
“ This paint is interesting because, as this July 1957 photo shows, it predated the adoption of those colors for diesel locomotives
in the following year. Though this paint scheme was unfortunately not approved for use, and No. 651596 was repainted box car red, the same colors were used a few years later for SP's Hy-Cube auto parts cars. "
BTW, the 5 digit road number of Your car is curios, as in 1956 SP adopted the 6 digit numbering system for freight cars
with the exception of tank cars , PFE ice reefers, cars of subsidiaries SSW + TNO and leased cars (BLCX, GACX, etc).
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Post by mlehman on Oct 10, 2015 4:38:13 GMT -8
I won't nitpick an unfinished car that someone asks for help in finishing. That might be just the reason someone is asking. It might help to use McDonnell-Douglas as the correct search term, but that didn't seem to help me much.
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Post by mrsocal on Oct 10, 2015 6:25:29 GMT -8
I want to thank each of you for your efforts and time to research this. In 1970 I was 5 and can be mistaken on this. I know about the SP Hy-Cube for Aircraft Stabilizers and it is possible this is the one I am remembering. It appears that this boxcar never really existed, Guess I will just wing it when. Thank you all again.
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Post by mlehman on Oct 10, 2015 8:52:43 GMT -8
Scotty,
My ORERs show this series as SP 40' cars in 1944 and as T&NO cars, still 40', in 1953. January 1960 shows the series gone entirely, as does October 1970.
Note that while SP went to 6 digit #s in '56, there were still 780 cars with 5 digit road numbers listed in the 1970 ORER.
That's still a nice looking paint scheme. Maybe a renumbering could salvage things? But I'm no SP expert to suggest a likely target to use.
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Post by sp8299 on Oct 10, 2015 9:12:46 GMT -8
I want to thank each of you for your efforts and time to research this. In 1970 I was 5 and can be mistaken on this. I know about the SP Hy-Cube for Aircraft Stabilizers and it is possible this is the one I am remembering. It appears that this boxcar never really existed, Guess I will just wing it when. Thank you all again. The aircraft parts cars you're thinking of in that scheme weren't Hy-Cube boxcars, but "skyboxes"; specialized, angled hoods mounted to standard flight cars. They only had access doors on the ends; the roof sections were designed to lift off, so components could be raised or lowered into them. IIRC, they hauled stab and wing assemblies for C-5 Galaxies and C-141 Starlifters, among other aircraft. |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 10, 2015 15:58:31 GMT -8
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Post by riogrande on Oct 10, 2015 16:48:03 GMT -8
Interesting. I remember when the first C-5A Galaxies arrived at Travis AFB where I lived in 1969/70 time frame as a kid. They were shown during an air show as well and they stated they could carry 6 greyhound buses in the cargo hold. The C-141 Starlifters are familiar to me also; it was the last plane my father was a navigator aboard before he retired from the Air Force in MAC (Military Airlift Command). I flew aboard them myself to Hawaii space-a with my family when I was 14. Pretty cool! They had outfitted them with passenger seats facing rearward because it was safer than forward - the only windows in the plane sides were at the emergency exits. Thankfully I got to sit next to them outbound and inbound so I could see out, which for a teenage kid was a must.
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Post by atsfan on Oct 10, 2015 18:01:43 GMT -8
Interesting. I remember when the first C-5A Galaxies arrived at Travis AFB where I lived in 1969/70 time frame as a kid. They were shown during an air show as well and they stated they could carry 6 greyhound buses in the cargo hold. The C-141 Starlifters are familiar to me also; it was the last plane my father was a navigator aboard before he retired from the Air Force in MAC (Military Airlift Command). I flew aboard them myself to Hawaii space-a with my family when I was 14. Pretty cool! They had outfitted them with passenger seats facing rearward because it was safer than forward - the only windows in the plane sides were at the emergency exits. Thankfully I got to sit next to them outbound and inbound so I could see out, which for a teenage kid was a must. The C5s still have the backward,facing seats. Many now are re engined and glass cockpitted. Of course new wings also. The C17 has taken over most of the hops. |
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Post by riogrande on Oct 11, 2015 5:08:16 GMT -8
Yes, that's true. When they were on display, we could climb up into the seating are. As I recall the rear and front area's are isolated by the wing at that time. The C-17's look very similar to the C-141's - I always wondered if they were built to replace the aging fleet.
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Post by mrsocal on Oct 11, 2015 5:51:10 GMT -8
Yep, I have 2 on the bench right now that I have scratch built. I was adding the boxcar to make a three piece set but now... |
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Post by mlehman on Oct 11, 2015 6:43:59 GMT -8
Yes, that's true. When they were on display, we could climb up into the seating are. As I recall the rear and front area's are isolated by the wing at that time. The C-17's look very similar to the C-141's - I always wondered if they were built to replace the aging fleet. The passenger section on the C-5 was a permanent installation (no toilets on a pallet, etc) on the second deck behind the crew facilities and wing box (flight deck, with crew rest behind it ahead of the wing). Access was via stairs from the cargo hold at the rear of the area. Yes, just either 4 or 6 windows in the emergency exit doors and the military standard backward seating. Sort of claustrophobic, but like Jim, the teenage me found a window seat somehow. Never had the pleasure of a C-141 ride, although we were close on space-A one time at Rhein-Main. Did get the chance to ride the Big One in the summer of '73. The took the windtips off of 3 Army twin-engine Cessna utility aircraft and rolled them on board to return them to an Army depot in Pennsylvania. In retrospect, I suspect the aircraft were electronic recon, as they used these along the inter-German border to peer across and the depot was heavily involved in radio and other electronic repairs and installations. Yeah, 6 buses would fit, as the crago hold was huge. BTW, best cross-Atlantic ride ever. That big ol' thing rode like a Cadillac when you'd hit the usual air pockets, updrafts, etc that jounce you around in smaller planes. Interesting that the parts traveled by train, at least in part. Another RR connection here was the Army depot featured the PC under wire right outside the gate and got to see a GG-1 while waiting at the terminal for our flight onward further into the ZI. |
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Post by atsfan on Oct 11, 2015 13:27:51 GMT -8
C17s did replace the worn out 141s. But they also are a big improvement in size, capacity, fuel burn, maintenance, etc.
As the C5s wind down it will be interesting to see what if anything will replace them.
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Post by TBird1958 on Oct 11, 2015 14:25:29 GMT -8
Yep, I have 2 on the bench right now that I have scratch built. I was adding the boxcar to make a three piece set but now...
Who's decals Scotty? I hate to say it but I may have to build one just for the sake of it's inherent coolness.......
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Post by stottman on Oct 11, 2015 23:03:23 GMT -8
C-141s were retired in the late 90s...Jumped out of one for the last time in 97. Jumped the C-17 for the first time that same year.
They still have the palletized airline seats for the C-17. I flew out of Iraq in one, 2009. The C-17's seats are not the cloth seats like a C-130/C-141. The standard C-17 seats are set up specifically for Paratroopers, so its allot of wasted space for other passengers.
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Post by mrsocal on Oct 12, 2015 4:04:46 GMT -8
Here are a couple of pic's from a few months back.   |
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