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Post by NS4122 on May 1, 2016 16:30:43 GMT -8
It appears that the Walthers PRR P70 coaches may have been canceled. They have disappeared from the website and there have been reports of pre-orders being listed as "canceled". Not good news for those looking forward to the many variations that were to be offered of this iconic Pennsy prototype.
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 1, 2016 17:02:16 GMT -8
Walthers' 53' rebuilt well cars also disappeared from their announcements only to reappear later.
That MAY be what's happening here.
There's canceled. And there's delayed.
Ed
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Post by Amboy Secondary on May 1, 2016 17:12:14 GMT -8
Given the extensive delays associated, they were perhaps a bit premature with the announcement. I doubt that there was insufficient demand considering the iconic prototype. More like too many possible variations and combinations to market at once.
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Post by JohnJ on May 2, 2016 7:39:31 GMT -8
Did PRR use P70s system-wide? For some reason I always associate them with the Washington-NYC run.
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Post by roadkill on May 2, 2016 7:45:19 GMT -8
Did PRR use P70s system-wide? For some reason I always associate them with the Washington-NYC run. They were used EVERYWHERE! As ubiquitous a passenger car as there's probably ever been. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on May 2, 2016 9:22:49 GMT -8
I have seen film of PRR P70's on a local commuter run in Braintree, MA (a Boston suburb) in 1959 on the New Haven. It seems that the P70's came in on connecting PRR trains from NY's Penn Station all the way to Boston. The NH apparently decided that since there were a few hours or more until the P70's were to be sent back to the Pennsy, they'd run them down to Braintree on a commuter run or two. What the PRR doesn't know won't hurt 'em, right? [  ] |
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Post by rails4dmv on May 2, 2016 9:24:15 GMT -8
I hope these weren't cancelled by Walthers. No telling when the P70 Broadway Limited versions will come out. If these were cancelled, this will be the second disappointment for me from Walthers. I was really looking forward to the Walthers "Fallen Flag" series until that got cancelled. Now, if they are going to push the P70's back to do a production of Amtrak Viewliners, Horizon cars & Baggage Cars...... |
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Post by dti406 on May 2, 2016 9:39:41 GMT -8
I have seen film of PRR P70's on a local commuter run in Braintree, MA (a Boston suburb) in 1959 on the New Haven. It seems that the P70's came in on connecting PRR trains from NY's Penn Station all the way to Boston. The NH apparently decided that since there were a few hours or more until the P70's were to be sent back to the Pennsy, they'd run them down to Braintree on a commuter run or two. What the PRR doesn't know won't hurt 'em, right? [ ] Well, no wonder the PRR was in such sad financial shape, what with the New Haven stealing their cars with no compensation!  Rick |
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Post by John Sheridan on May 2, 2016 9:46:29 GMT -8
I hope these weren't cancelled by Walthers. No telling when the P70 Broadway Limited versions will come out. If these were cancelled, this will be the second disappointment for me from Walthers. I was really looking forward to the Walthers "Fallen Flag" series until that got cancelled. Now, if they are going to push the P70's back to do a production of Amtrak Viewliners, Horizon cars & Baggage Cars...... Considering BLI's P70s are expected in the next 30 days-or-so, maybe Walthers did not get enough pre-orders in-time to justify the run. |
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Post by ambluco on May 2, 2016 10:38:25 GMT -8
PRRT&HS people have said they were cancelled with no further explanation from Walthers.
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Post by Amboy Secondary on May 2, 2016 17:37:49 GMT -8
PTTT&HS people have said they were cancelled with no further explanation from Walthers. Since their modeling committee was working with Walthers, they would be among the first to know. I'm disappointed, I would have bought at least a half dozen. |
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Post by jaygee on May 3, 2016 6:53:10 GMT -8
....And with the B'way LTD scrubbed, Bachmann is yer only ride ! Buenos noches, coaches !
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Post by jaygee on May 3, 2016 6:57:31 GMT -8
Could have used a few of several versions, at least.....but with everyone pulling the plug?  Looks like the two big shots scared each other off! Commuters will just have to take the bus ! |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on May 3, 2016 7:13:42 GMT -8
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Post by NS4122 on May 3, 2016 8:55:09 GMT -8
....And with the B'way LTD scrubbed, Bachmann is yer only ride ! Buenos noches, coaches ! Who said anything about BLI canceling their P70's? They're still on their site scheduled for June delivery, so if they don't cancel we should see them hopefully by year end. |
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Post by calzephyr on May 3, 2016 12:12:09 GMT -8
I hope these weren't cancelled by Walthers. No telling when the P70 Broadway Limited versions will come out. If these were cancelled, this will be the second disappointment for me from Walthers. I was really looking forward to the Walthers "Fallen Flag" series until that got cancelled. Now, if they are going to push the P70's back to do a production of Amtrak Viewliners, Horizon cars & Baggage Cars...... It could be Walthers cancelled the P70's because BLI was working on them prior to the dates that Walthers could ship them to customers. My thought is there is not a large market for sales if more than one company imports the same product dating back to the Steam era. Modern freight cars and diesels seem to do OK if several importers jump on the market since the number of buyers is probably a greater amount. Larry |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on May 3, 2016 13:05:09 GMT -8
I hope these weren't cancelled by Walthers. No telling when the P70 Broadway Limited versions will come out. If these were cancelled, this will be the second disappointment for me from Walthers. I was really looking forward to the Walthers "Fallen Flag" series until that got cancelled. Now, if they are going to push the P70's back to do a production of Amtrak Viewliners, Horizon cars & Baggage Cars...... It could be Walthers cancelled the P70's because BLI was working on them prior to the dates that Walthers could ship them to customers. My thought is there is not a large market for sales if more than one company imports the same product dating back to the Steam era. Modern freight cars and diesels seem to do OK if several importers jump on the market since the number of buyers is probably a greater amount. Larry P70's lasted into or around 1978 on Conrail. CR used them some in PC green others still in tuscan on the Valpo Dummy. |
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cab4
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Post by cab4 on May 3, 2016 13:28:29 GMT -8
It could be Walthers cancelled the P70's because BLI was working on them prior to the dates that Walthers could ship them to customers. My thought is there is not a large market for sales if more than one company imports the same product dating back to the Steam era. Modern freight cars and diesels seem to do OK if several importers jump on the market since the number of buyers is probably a greater amount. Larry P70's lasted into or around 1978 on Conrail. CR used them some in PC green others still in tuscan on the Valpo Dummy. My 1979 NJ DOT roster still lists 27 P70 cars #1684-1732 (random gaps in between). I saw a photograph of an E60CP hauling a clocker train that was made of pure PRR P70s. I was disappointed to hear they discontinued the cars, since I was hoping to get a few of the later ones for some of my Northeast Corridor trains. |
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Post by jaygee on May 3, 2016 14:35:33 GMT -8
Mebby you get BLI P70....mebby yunz don't. I ain't holding my breath with these Bozos !
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Post by Amboy Secondary on May 3, 2016 15:57:31 GMT -8
....And with the B'way LTD scrubbed, Bachmann is yer only ride ! Buenos noches, coaches ! According to BLI's web site, their version of the P70 is due sometime in July 2016. BLI versions include the non air conditioned basic coach, and the ice activated air conditioned car of the '30s. Bachmann's version is the basic non air conditioned car, similar to the older Spectrum version, but with less detail, and a better coupling mechanism. Walthers, may be licking their wounds, yesterday, their daily bargain e-mail was featuring 4 car Metroliner sets for less than half of MSRP, and I don't think the re-run of the Broadway has sold as well as anticipated. Perhaps the Pennsy's popularity has waned? |
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Post by jaygee on May 3, 2016 17:11:53 GMT -8
The new Broadway is sooooo close to the old Broadway....many figure why bother. Be interesting to see the final response to the '54 El Cap Santa Fe train. I'm only getting a few of the '64 Braodway LTD. cars plus the E8s. The sound in the DCC cars does NOT help matters.
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ed
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Post by ed on May 4, 2016 4:48:20 GMT -8
The downside is that only the earlier, clerestory roofed versions will be available. I needed a few of the later versions.
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Post by rails4dmv on May 4, 2016 6:04:51 GMT -8
I was disappointed with the quality of sound in the Walthers 1960 B'way Limited passenger cars & sold them off.
If Walthers wanted to really make this latest PRR release a hit, they should have tooled up and released the P85br coach cars with this latest edition instead of referencing the discontinued Centralia cars in the promo.
The Centralia P85 cars were nice when they were released years ago. But they don't track well & are hard to find at decent prices in this neck of the woods.
If the BLI cars are done with the same quality as the Cal. Zephyr cars, these should sell well & maybe BLI will do the other roads also.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 6:20:55 GMT -8
....And with the B'way LTD scrubbed, Bachmann is yer only ride ! Buenos noches, coaches ! According to BLI's web site, their version of the P70 is due sometime in July 2016. BLI versions include the non air conditioned basic coach, and the ice activated air conditioned car of the '30s. Bachmann's version is the basic non air conditioned car, similar to the older Spectrum version, but with less detail, and a better coupling mechanism. Walthers, may be licking their wounds, yesterday, their daily bargain e-mail was featuring 4 car Metroliner sets for less than half of MSRP, and I don't think the re-run of the Broadway has sold as well as anticipated. Perhaps the Pennsy's popularity has waned? They've been trying to get rid of those dang metroliners for about a year now. They're far overpriced when you consider the cost of 2-3 passenger cars and a powered unit. The $250 list price should have been for 3 unpowered cars, and sell the powered units separately. But yeah, I agree. Rehashing Pennsy, then Santa Fe, canceling coaches they don't expect to sell well, and $35 list price TrainLine cabooses... |
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Post by Amboy Secondary on May 4, 2016 17:40:09 GMT -8
I was disappointed with the quality of sound in the Walthers 1960 B'way Limited passenger cars & sold them off. If Walthers wanted to really make this latest PRR release a hit, they should have tooled up and released the P85br coach cars with this latest edition instead of referencing the discontinued Centralia cars in the promo. The Centralia P85 cars were nice when they were released years ago. But they don't track well & are hard to find at decent prices in this neck of the woods. If the BLI cars are done with the same quality as the Cal. Zephyr cars, these should sell well & maybe BLI will do the other roads also. Not for nothing, I bought one car out of the current Broadway Limited, the 5 double bedroom lounge. I already have two full sets plus extra cars from the first release. I also have eight of the Centralia P85Bs. Never had a problem with tracking, but things do fall off inappropriately. I was hoping for the twin diner in stainless steel, this time around, after all, It was the '60s. There is a point where the market can no longer absorb additional releases of the same old stuff, no matter how well it's done. Most people are content to own one set. The disappointment is that BLI will most likely limit their release to the two versions of the P70 that they announced, which leaves the pre WW2 streamlined cars FAR KR and GR as well as the 1948 FBR Corridor coach to kit bashers. Walthers would have had a lot of success with the P70, had they continued the project. |
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Post by rails4dmv on May 5, 2016 17:35:08 GMT -8
I was disappointed with the quality of sound in the Walthers 1960 B'way Limited passenger cars & sold them off. If Walthers wanted to really make this latest PRR release a hit, they should have tooled up and released the P85br coach cars with this latest edition instead of referencing the discontinued Centralia cars in the promo. The Centralia P85 cars were nice when they were released years ago. But they don't track well & are hard to find at decent prices in this neck of the woods. If the BLI cars are done with the same quality as the Cal. Zephyr cars, these should sell well & maybe BLI will do the other roads also. Not for nothing, I bought one car out of the current Broadway Limited, the 5 double bedroom lounge. I already have two full sets plus extra cars from the first release. I also have eight of the Centralia P85Bs. Never had a problem with tracking, but things do fall off inappropriately. I was hoping for the twin diner in stainless steel, this time around, after all, It was the '60s. There is a point where the market can no longer absorb additional releases of the same old stuff, no matter how well it's done. Most people are content to own one set. The disappointment is that BLI will most likely limit their release to the two versions of the P70 that they announced, which leaves the pre WW2 streamlined cars FAR KR and GR as well as the 1948 FBR Corridor coach to kit bashers. Walthers would have had a lot of success with the P70, had they continued the project. Besides the P70's, Walthers has been missing out on some roads & passenger cars that could have been very popular sellers. But it seems Walthers has been concentrating on passenger cars for Santa Fe, UP, PRR & Amtrak as of late. Which is fine....if those roads keep the doors open and pays the bills, more power to them. But at some point Walthers is going to have to really stick with a project & stop worrying about preorder numbers. It's going to eventually hurt their reputation if they keep making announcements, get everyone's hope up and quietly cancel projects. If preorder numbers were low, they could have put the word out that the project could cancelled if not enough orders were coming through. Last time I checked, they have a Facebook page & word of mouth still works....Ask Rapido! |
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Post by Amboy Secondary on May 6, 2016 5:25:52 GMT -8
There is probably much more to all of this than meets the eye. Possibly, it's as simple as Walthers realizing that they can't sell enough of the P70s. at their price point to make a decent return on their investment. Another possibility is that Walthers off shore supplier cannot meet Walthers standards or schedule at a price Walthers is willing to pay.
The P70 project is / was quite extensive, in that this is a car that was produced in large numbers dating from the opening of Penn Station in NYC in the early 1900s through the last modifications which lasted into the Amtrak era. There are at least seven major variations that Pennsy fans would like covered, even though very few people would buy more than one or two cars for their modeling needs. Perhaps this realization played into Walthers decision process.
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Post by Spikre on May 6, 2016 9:29:00 GMT -8
 there is a big problem with trying to Double Your Investment on the 1st run. not like they cant do these for Years of Sell Outs. Spikre 
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Post by llxlocomotives on May 7, 2016 20:57:44 GMT -8
It seems like passenger cars have been over done. What was once the domain of Rivarossi, Athearn & Con Cor. Not to mention brass or low end stuff. Has in recent years been well served by Rapido, MTH, Kato and Walthers. Rapido and Walthers have produced a great variety. Yes, not every model in every variation., but a significant number.
It seems that a change in strategy is in order. They need to expand the potential market, not restrict it. Having a single name train in a year seems like that limits the buyers to those who model that road and s few others who want every road. The later can't even very large.
Over the last several years, they have repeated several popular trains with slightly better colors, details or sound. How can that really work? The guy who wants all the bells and whistles will "sell" the older models to lower end buyers from the same potential pool. That may work until saturation sets in. Based on the last couple of snouncements followed by cancelations, it seems like that may be happening.
Another factor is the time between announcement and deliveries. When it get to long, the interest either cools or is satisfied in another manner. Their limited runs need to be faster to product not slower.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on May 8, 2016 19:25:35 GMT -8
llxlocomotives,
Passenger cars have not been overdone. It's like saying freight cars have been overdone. Or locomotives. There are plenty of prototypes out there that have yet to be made.
The days of Rivarossi, Athearn & Con-Cor were also the days of Athearn Blue Box locos, Atlas Yellow Box locos, and Mantua loco kits. Things can change.
Remember, before Walthers started doing annual name trains, they made singular cars in a bunch of road names (and weren't too specific matching road names to cars). That they switched full time to doing name trains says to me that it's making more money than doing another sleeper type and painting it in a dozen schemes.
Most of the Walthers "repeats" have not been upgrades but have been modeling different eras. Sure, Walthers re-issued the Chief as a plated version with the grabs attached vs. the original painted one with no grabs attached, but generally speaking they've gone from one decade to another with a little repainting and one or two different cars (like the new El Cap).
What's been affecting Walthers has been competition beating them to the punch and manufacturing trouble in China, not the waning of interest in passenger trains.
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