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Post by riogrande on May 4, 2016 3:37:30 GMT -8
Someone posted the announcement on TO the other day so I found the official announcement on ST Facebook page. Looks like another Airslide hopper is coming. This lines up with the tank cars as some apparently are used as buffer cars from what I'm reading. Here is a quote from their FB page. Link also. www.facebook.com/scaletrains/It looks like the 4180 version may be most useful to me of the two versions since it's been around since the 1960's |
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Post by alcoc430 on May 4, 2016 6:19:28 GMT -8
How are these different than the athearn, walthers, and concor cars? I'm not going to replace what I already own.
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Post by grahamline on May 4, 2016 7:09:40 GMT -8
The various cars are different ages and capacities, with changes in height, length, brake gear placement etc.
Specifically, the 4566 cu ft car that Scale Trains is planning will be noticeably taller than the 4180 cu ft cars that have been available. Tangent Scale Models makes a very nice 4180 that has more refined details and more complete lettering than the Walthers 4180 model.
The newer models have finer details and cost a lot more. On our club, with a "mole" hand-building trains in staging, the simpler models are much more durable and the cars are mostly markers in the game.
It's sort of on the order of "if you can't see the difference, it doesn't matter." If you have an up close switching layout or are really into photographic realism and 100% prototype accuracy, having all of the variations available matters a lot.
It is nice to have so many choices available.
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Post by riogrande on May 4, 2016 7:29:12 GMT -8
The ScaleTrains 4180 apparently represent the same car as the Walther's 50' Airslide: www.ho-scaletrains.net/walthersfreightcars/id125.htmlAs grahamline pointed out, the newer model will have finer details and will be appealing to modelers who prefer that. If it doesn't matter to you, then no biggie. I agree, choice is a good thing. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on May 4, 2016 7:50:07 GMT -8
4566 - 4180 = 386
386 / 4180 = .09 = 9%
Ed
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Post by mlehman on May 4, 2016 7:53:31 GMT -8
9% doesn't sound like much, but it's plenty enough to be visually distinct from its smaller sibling.
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Post by drolsen on May 4, 2016 10:39:02 GMT -8
Tangent Scale Models makes a very nice 4180 that has more refined details and more complete lettering than the Walthers 4180 model. The 4566 is a very welcome announcement; as you mentioned, the height difference is definitely noticeable, especially if the two types of cars are coupled together. The 4180 is a little disappointing, since Tangent's is a fantastic mode with multiple body and detail variations. It's hard to imagine needing anything else, but it's also understandable if this model was already in development, and it's a natural companion to the 4566 in the Scale Trains product line. The ScaleTrains 4180 apparently represent the same car as the Walthers 50' Airslide: And the Tangent Airslide. Good that they're doing a more affordable Operator series 4180, but the Rivet Counter version should be almost identical to Tangent's in terms of the level of detail. Anyway, very cool to see the 4566, the first Scale Trains model that fits my modeling needs! Dave |
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Post by riogrande on May 4, 2016 11:14:22 GMT -8
Dave,
It sounds like companies unintentionally overlapped on the 4180 version. I agree, Tangents models are all top shelf so hey! It is good to see some different versions coming out too.
I was thinking about the Tangent model earlier so yes, that's now 3 different companies overlapping - Walther's, Tangent and now ST. When it rains, it pours!
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Post by wp8thsub on May 4, 2016 11:38:12 GMT -8
How are these different than the athearn, walthers, and concor cars? I'm not going to replace what I already own. The Athearn/Walthers/Con-Cor single bay cars are all smaller, so there's no overlap with the Scale Trains model at all.  Here's a representative of the above cars.  And here's another variation that both Athearn and Con-Cor did.  There are multiple variations of the larger 4180 cu ft cars, with different ends, safety appliances, and exterior posts. The above mid-production version is similar to the Walthers 4180 and one of the Tangent cars, and from the photos I've seen appears to be the 4180 Scale Trains is doing.  Yet another variation has the rectangular section exterior posts like this one (Tangent did this one, albeit not in WP [hint]). These are similar to the posts on the larger 4566 cu ft cars. As has already been mentioned, the 4566 is noticeably taller, and will add some welcome variety on the layout. |
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Post by lyonwonder on May 4, 2016 18:18:26 GMT -8
BN had 4566 airslides. And the GACX "Wonder Bread Hostess Cake" cars were 4566 airslides too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 18:45:45 GMT -8
MP had 4566 Air Slides, too. MP 721950-721999
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Post by bdhicks on May 4, 2016 19:21:01 GMT -8
Now I need to do with that fleet of Walthers cars I had bought with plans of upgrading. When the Tangent came out I thought I might try to kitbash some of them into 4566s but now I've got nothing.
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Post by fr8kar on May 4, 2016 19:33:36 GMT -8
It must be very frustrating to get so close to the release of a new product you are excited to offer only to have another manufacturer beat you to the punch. The Tangent products I own - which don't include the 4180 Airslide yet - do not leave much room for improvement. It's one thing if for example Intermountain announces a product then a competitor comes along and announces the same thing. I will happily give both a look and buy the better product. But when somebody duplicates a Tangent model? I hope it's either somehow better, cheaper or both. But I'm not holding my breath.
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Post by stottman on May 4, 2016 21:34:42 GMT -8
I think an "identical" product could work IF they do more popular roadnames in the first run.
Most of the Tangent roadnames seem to be on the extreme ends of their era specturm. Either very early, or very late, and most are esoteric.
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Post by riogrande on May 5, 2016 1:35:52 GMT -8
Most of the Tangent roadnames seem to be on the extreme ends of their era specturm. Either very early, or very late, and most are esoteric. That's how I felt too, the first run road names were to me as you say. |
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Post by bdhicks on May 5, 2016 8:14:24 GMT -8
The 4180 is in the operator line, so it will probably slot between Tangent and Walthers on price and detail. The 4566 doesn't have competition and looks to be aimed at the high-end.
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Post by sp8299 on May 5, 2016 8:17:45 GMT -8
The 4180 is in the operator line, so it will probably slot between Tangent and Walthers on price and detail. The 4566 doesn't have competition and looks to be aimed at the high-end. "Watch for our official announcement in two weeks on our website, e-mail newsletter, and Facebook. The first production run will include buffer cars for our Rivet Counter Trinity 31K Crude Oil Tank Cars. Pricing will be similar to the Rivet Counter tank cars and models will be available late this summer. In addition, we’ll announce an officially licensed Rivet Counter 4180 Cubic Foot Airslide Covered Hopper with four different variations later this year." |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 19:23:44 GMT -8
The 4180 is in the operator line, so it will probably slot between Tangent and Walthers on price and detail. The 4566 doesn't have competition and looks to be aimed at the high-end. "Watch for our official announcement in two weeks on our website, e-mail newsletter, and Facebook. The first production run will include buffer cars for our Rivet Counter Trinity 31K Crude Oil Tank Cars. Pricing will be similar to the Rivet Counter tank cars and models will be available late this summer. In addition, we’ll announce an officially licensed Rivet Counter 4180 Cubic Foot Airslide Covered Hopper with four different variations later this year." I'm glad that you re-posted this...I was trying re-post the same thing on FB...but there was some confusion as to where the information was with regards to the fourth version. I'm curious as to the paint schemes...myself. If MP is in both first runs...I'm a buyer. I have 4 Tangent 4180 assembled undecs...and Microscale Decals for them...so I just need to see some road numbers. Very happy to see this car being given some love...and with the larger 4566...it's a sure thing to see MP on that one... |
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Post by wp8thsub on May 6, 2016 11:54:24 GMT -8
Very happy to see this car being given some love...and with the larger 4566...it's a sure thing to see MP on that one... Someone in attendance at the meet where Scale Trains teased the product photographed the paint schemes on display. An MP 4566 was among them. |
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Post by Spikre on May 9, 2016 13:17:14 GMT -8
 the 4566 Airslide is needed,but NOT another 4180, unless it is the 1st version 4180. what is needed are the Big GATC Dry Flos,4500, 4600,4700 CUFT cars, in my lifetime ?? from what has been found here,most 4566s were built by Trinity after GATC quit building things around 1984. and is their a connection between the 4700 Dri Flow and 4700 FMC/Gunderson Grain cars ? Spikre 
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2016 13:59:12 GMT -8
the 4566 Airslide is needed,but NOT another 4180, unless it is the 1st version 4180. what is needed are the Big GATC Dry Flos,4500, 4600,4700 CUFT cars, in my lifetime ?? from what has been found here,most 4566s were built by Trinity after GATC quit building things around 1984. and is their a connection between the 4700 Dri Flow and 4700 FMC/Gunderson Grain cars ? Spikre I am NOT a freight car expert...but I saw that the only slot left out of Tangent's production was the 1963-64 production...of which I ASSUME is what is being included in the Scale Trains 4180 in the Rivet Counter Series. The operator series will be aimed at the Walthers' car market...and could easily render that car obsolete... I think the price point is a valid thing to consider. I have 4 Tangent Air Slides (undec assembled 1980 versions)...for my MP cars matching that era. I am sure that Mr. Lehbach will consider MP in later runs...as he has done three versions of which I think they ALL (?) would include MP cars...since the MP cars date back to 1965. I have no plans to get rid of my Tangent Air Slides. It's a beautiful car...IMO, the best car that Tangent has done to date. It's incredible. For those who want a lower priced car for their "runners" or as a person starting out...the Operator makes sense. For those who want the Cadillac...Tangent...or the Rivet Counter Series. That being said...I am sure the Scale Trains 4566 will leave me with the same regard...as I am convinced after seeing what they (Scale Trains) have produced to date, as well as their reputation for high-end product development. I am certainly open to having duplicates of the cars...as I see nothing wrong with that. Tangent produces Superb freight cars...for sure. So, I understand the comments regarding duplicating their releases...but there are other products out there...that will be duplicated (it's inevitable)...that can DEFINITELY be improved on...locomotives, freight cars (NOT Tangent, or ExactRail), etc., Plus, I model MP...and if Scale Trains offers the MP in the 4180 Rivet Counter series...I'm a buyer. We deserve a choice as consumers...IMO. I look forward to what the Scale Trains guys bring us this year. |
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Post by Spikre on May 9, 2016 14:25:21 GMT -8
 Thomas, considering there are over 80 Walthers 4180s already here, no way will they be replaced by any ones newer models. then add in the 3 or more numbers on some roads,and Special Run cars like the B&MHS "Prince Spaghetti" car,or even plain gray cars by L&N HS,Milwaukee HS, so they will all stay as the Well is Dry here to replace that many cars. did find that Proto 36" wheels worked well on the cars, so that is an ongoing project to fit all the cars,even the ones not assembled yet. can only take so much of paint scraping a year !! since the 4566 is out of the Time Frame here, they arnt needed personally, but am sure others will be happy with them. look thru 80s and 90s mags to see the Special Runs done on the Walthers cars,most ended up here. would consider a few Early 4180s like CB&Q,but that would be it. Spikre 
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Post by sp8299 on May 9, 2016 16:13:19 GMT -8
the 4566 Airslide is needed,but NOT another 4180, unless it is the 1st version 4180. what is needed are the Big GATC Dry Flos,4500, 4600,4700 CUFT cars, in my lifetime ?? from what has been found here,most 4566s were built by Trinity after GATC quit building things around 1984. and is their a connection between the 4700 Dri Flow and 4700 FMC/Gunderson Grain cars ? Spikre The 4566cf Airslide began production in 1978. Production of it ended in 1985, when it was superseded by the 4895cf Airslide. |
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johnr
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Post by johnr on May 10, 2016 14:03:45 GMT -8
Hello All,
As the General American Airslide car is something that I've had a strong interest in ever since photographing my first examples in the Minneapolis milling district in 1991, this pre-announcement of 4566 cf Airslides by Scaletrains is something that I'm really excited about as it fits nicely in my interests and the era which I'm modeling. For me personally I'll be acquiring as many of these as I can while they're available.
After reading the replies in this thread regarding the 4180 cf Airslide I thought I'd add to the conversation by pointing out that while Tangent has made 3 versions of the 4180 and Scaletrains has indicated that they will offer 4 versions, there have been in fact 8 versions or phases of the 4180 cf Airslide from beginning to end of production.
In Eric Neubauer's excellent monograph 'A History of the General American Airslide and Other Covered Hopper Cars' he details the distinguishing characteristics of the these 8 phases along with the approximate dates and quantities of their production. The hardcopy of this book is no longer in publication but Eric does offer a digital reprint on CD of it on his web site. In the 25 years I've been collecting information on Airslides, none of the General American Airslide brochures, plans or operating instructions, nor the pictures I've taken nor slides I've purchased have highlighted any significant errors in this monograph as of its 1989 publication date. The 4895 cf information has changed somewhat though as it was still in production up to 1993.
The 8 phases of the 4180 cf with production dates and numbers, from the book are summarized below. Eric distinguished the phases primarily by the differences in the type of stakes on the side sheets and the type of bracing on the end sheet with his own 1-3 letter designations. For two of the otherwise visually similar phases (TZH and TZL) the primary difference was in the placement of the handbrake, high on one and low on the other. To the side of the table I've added which phase the Walthers and Tangent models represent. For the Scaletrains 4180 cf model in the Facebook picture, since the B end can't be seen and the side sill isn't doesn't look like the HAT phase, it would appear to be either a TZH or TZL phase.
PHASE BUILT QUANTITY MANUFACTURER(S)
------- ------------ ----------- ----------------------
C 3/62 1
HAT 2/63 - 5/64 406
TZH 6/65 - 3/66 615 Tangent(65-66 version)
TZL 9/66 - 1/69 820 Tangent(67-68 version)
TCX 10/68 1
TZC 1/69 - 6/69 197
HZ 8/69 - 1/70 190
HC 10/70 - 10/80 2855 Walthers(50' 2 bay), Tangent(70-80 version)
As is obvious from the table two of the phases are not likely to ever make it into a production model form as they consisted of exactly 1 car. Of the remaining 6 phases it's obvious to see why Walthers and Tangent have made models of the HC phase. At 2855 units produced this single phase provides the most bang for their buck. The two second most numerous phases are also offered by Tangent.
When the official Scaletrains announcement occurs 5/14 we'll see which phases they will offer but if I had to speculate I'd say that they would be the same as what Tangent has produced with the 4th version being the HAT phase. It's unlikely that the TCX and HZ phase will ever become production models as the quantities are too small to warrant making tooling for them. Between the 4 highest quantity phases you've got covered more than 92% of the 5085 4180 cf Airslides produced.
The Walthers 50' 2 bay Airslide has been offered in paint schemes that spanned virtually ALL 4180 cf phases with a few 4566 cf and 4895 cf paint schemes thrown in. In particular the ADM Milling and Wonder Bread cars were 4566 cf and the Baby Blue GATX car with the Italgrani logo is a Trinity 4895 cf.
I'm certain that for some folks this is more information about Airslides than they cared to know about. For others it may be of interest.
John
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 15:33:27 GMT -8
Very cool...and informative. I had guessed the 1963-64 version...and your information would make sense with the amount produced. Tangent was smart to pick the three biggest production models...IMO.
If Scale Trains did the same plus the original version...they can easily overlap on paint schemes...
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Post by Spikre on May 11, 2016 11:18:05 GMT -8
??
sp8299,
what are the differences between the GATC and Trinity built 4566s ?
and how many were built by GATC and Trinity ?
since Trinity used GATC Drawings and Plans there shouldn't be any big differences.
Spikre
??
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Post by sp8299 on May 11, 2016 12:13:52 GMT -8
?? sp8299, what are the differences between the GATC and Trinity built 4566s ? and how many were built by GATC and Trinity ? since Trinity used GATC Drawings and Plans there shouldn't be any big differences. Spikre ?? None apparently. TRN didn't fully take over until 4566cf Airslide production was winding down, only building 50 of them in their Ft. Worth plant in 1984-85 after shutting down the GATC plant in Chicago. Even then, as Eric Neubauer points out, they were built to GATC specs, and likely from remaining GATC parts stocks. The only change TRN implemented to the Airslide design was the creation of the 4895cf Airslide in 1985, replacing the 4566cf. |
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Post by alcoc430 on May 11, 2016 15:45:16 GMT -8
How are these different than the athearn, walthers, and concor cars? I'm not going to replace what I already own. The Athearn/Walthers/Con-Cor single bay cars are all smaller, so there's no overlap with the Scale Trains model at all. Here's a representative of the above cars. And here's another variation that both Athearn and Con-Cor did. There are multiple variations of the larger 4180 cu ft cars, with different ends, safety appliances, and exterior posts. The above mid-production version is similar to the Walthers 4180 and one of the Tangent cars, and from the photos I've seen appears to be the 4180 Scale Trains is doing. Yet another variation has the rectangular section exterior posts like this one (Tangent did this one, albeit not in WP [hint]). These are similar to the posts on the larger 4566 cu ft cars. As has already been mentioned, the 4566 is noticeably taller, and will add some welcome variety on the layout. Thank you for the great response as well as to the others posters, a lot of great info |
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Post by jbilbrey on May 14, 2016 17:35:01 GMT -8
I'll probably pick up one of their 4566 Cu.Ft. Airslide's. I was going through my scanned photos and found that I had photographed one of the MoPac cars [MP 721952] in Nashville sometime around the 2004 timeframe. it's hard to pass something like that up when it happens.
James Bilbrey
LaVergne, TN
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chitownjeff
Junior Member
I'm here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and I'm all out of bubblegum
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Post by chitownjeff on May 16, 2016 18:38:42 GMT -8
I've decided to update my Walther's airslide fleet which is not a sizeable collection compared to other cars with Scale Trains/Tangent cars. But as I study the the Scale trains operator version the price is good but what I don't like is they leave the grabs off, this for me is a deal breaker, I'm OK with cut levers and what ever other special details are left off, but no grabs leave the car looking naked. I see they will offer detail add on sets in the future but I would rather pay a little bit more
for the grabs to be factory installed. If they go in the direction they are headed will you be able to open the car up to neatly glue the grab from the inside and then
I still have to try to match there paint.
So what do other people think about this.
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