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Post by loco8107 on Jan 4, 2018 14:43:24 GMT -8
Who has the better drive?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 14:45:47 GMT -8
I would say Athearn Genesis. I have no experience with the new Walthers drives with the helical cut gears, however. I did have experience with their old trainline version. And, the comparison isn't even close.
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Post by bnsf971 on Jan 4, 2018 16:02:26 GMT -8
The Genesis drive can be a little noisy. If I had to make a choice between a noisy drive with much better road-specific detail, and a smoother, quieter drive with extremely sparse and generic details, I know which I'd choose.
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Post by grahamline on Jan 4, 2018 23:00:45 GMT -8
I had one of the early early Walthers GP15-1 engines. Bought an undec and used the blank slate to build a UP version using the standard add-on detail parts. The power truck axle gears were replaced with NWSL gears and wheels, and it was an excellent runner. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. My experiences with Genesis engines are only so-so. Still find a need to "adjust" details.
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Post by sd80mac on Jan 5, 2018 8:31:15 GMT -8
The motor in the Genesis GP15 is the same one used in their MP15 and SW1500 and is among the smoothest motors I have ever owned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 10:45:59 GMT -8
Well:
I will chime in here...the Walthers units did have a good running mechanism, but their pickup system on the early "Train-line" versions needed improvement. I have heard the newer versions have the improved drive line, and if Walthers would simply re-tool their shell, they would have a winner of a locomotive. Their shell is a Hodge-podge of several different MP versions...with the twin ladder grab dimples on the rear of the long hood. Additionally, the door latches are very poorly rendered, and the blower duct is mis-shaped. Gordon Cannon introduced a tread plate set for the Walthers GP15-1, and even though I hated the long hood on these engines...I still had a few.
Before the Athearn announcement, myself and my good friend Brian Banna were in the process of designing a long hood component end that would allow a modeler to build a GP15-1 with Cannon parts and use the Walthers drive, or shorten an Atlas GP38 frame and use it, along with several other parts and Athearn side frames. But, in the fall of 2009, Athearn announced their GP15-1 in Genesis. That ended the project. Athearn also included both a frame rail and draft gear silhouette on their GP15-1, so that negated the need to mill the frame and add these parts with styrene.
Athearn genesis NAILED pretty much all of the versions of the GP15-1 with their road-specific tooling. Fortunately, I bought undecorated MP versions, and paint and assemble my own engines. I don't have to deal with all the issues we have batted around here for years now in regards to the paltry Athearn record on quality control. Unfortunately, they have not re-ran the undecorated versions of ANY GP15-1's.
I will say that my original run GP15-1's from Athearn are indeed hit-or-miss runners. There is some tweaking that must be done on the older Genesis four axle trucks to get them to run smoothly. I also install Kato motors in mine, because I like the slow speed control; and the low end torque they exhibit. There is nothing wrong with the open frame Roco-style motor they use in the Genesis Geeps...but I prefer a sealed can motor, personally. I change my lights to 0603 LED's with magnet wire as well. I just glue them right inside of the light tubes on the cab and the rear of the long hood.
So, for me, the Walthers unit has too many issues on the long hood to correct for me to even consider buying one...regardless of the drive.
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Post by Brakie on Jan 6, 2018 4:56:22 GMT -8
I picked up a Walthers DCC/Sound GP15-1 on the cheap ($89.00 show special) and while its definitely no Genesis its a smooth runner and a excellent switcher.
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Post by bar on Jan 6, 2018 10:49:58 GMT -8
Take your pick of Genesis issues: wonky drive train, bulbs, bent handrails, etc. Avoid at all costs, unless you just like shiny things.
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Post by packer on Jan 7, 2018 0:10:41 GMT -8
I have a BN one, it used to occasionally stall ouut on switches and stuff. I swapped in some axles from an Atlas U30C (weird, but it works wonderful) and installed LED lights for the head and rear lights (have yet to do the gyralight and beacon with LEDs.
Biggest issue for me was the cab has to come off to change bulbs, I didn't notice any mounting lugs or anything for it, and it seems it sits kinda off.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2018 18:01:27 GMT -8
I would also point out that Athearn has supplied me with replacement parts when they are available. There is no real comparison, IMO. Athearn Genesis GP15-1 wins hands down over the Walthers version. I am biased on my point of view, since Athearn provided a high quality GP15-1 to the market despite the fact there was a competitor out there with a lesser model. I am content to tinker with the drive system, but I have been building my own stuff since the early 1990's.
The issue with the older Genesis trucks has been pointed out to remove some plastic in the area where the axles ride. They have since redesigned the entire Genesis trucks and gear tower for their GP38-2/GP40-2/GP50 Genesis diesels. Everything right up to the worm gear retainer/cover is different. They are also making these parts available in their parts ordering area, as well.
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Post by ddatrainman on Jan 7, 2018 22:19:49 GMT -8
The Detail and the drive blow the Walthers out of the water. I owned the Walthers Proto 1000 version when they released them a couple years ago, it was good runner. Detail was meh, but the drive was an Athearn clone. It was a great engine and for the price worth the value. Just had to drop a decoder in. I no longer have the engine but remember it well
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Post by Brakie on Jan 8, 2018 6:21:39 GMT -8
I would also point out that Athearn has supplied me with replacement parts when they are available. Thomas,That's the whole point.. Why fix their mistakes after the price we pay for a Genesis engine? Shoddy engines should never pass QA/QC inspections but,they do. What if the needed replacement parts wasn't available? My $89.00 GP15 ran great from the box with no warp handrails, glue spots etc.. My IM GP10 was perfect from the box as was my ST Operator SD40-2 and BLI SW7. Athearn should address the sloppy workmanship and have it corrected. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 8:38:18 GMT -8
The point is the better model is Athearn Genesis. Their tooling and frame give me a better starting point to accurately model the EMD GP15-1. It sits at the correct height, and has the correct dimensions and frame detailing that give the GP15-1 that compact look.
I build all of my models either from undecs or stripped shells that I then repaint. So, my starting point is different than say, someone who is going to pull the model out of the box, and run it; as is. Additionally, I want the correct dimensions, details, and fit/finish of the undec to look right.
The walthers shell is their old Train-line GP15 model. Incorrect and clunky detailing/tooling. They may have a gold plated drive, but they slapped a 15 cent shell on it, IMO.
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Post by Brakie on Jan 8, 2018 9:39:15 GMT -8
Thomas,There's no doubt which is the better model between the two but,why can't Athearn address their on going QC/QA problems.
I had to rebuild my Genesis SCL GP9 from the frame up and added a Kato motor and new DCC/Sound board.
This is why I haven't bought a long time wanted Topeka Cab GP7u.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 11:54:50 GMT -8
I understand.
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Post by trainguy99 on Jan 9, 2018 6:42:17 GMT -8
To answer your question, the new Walthers GP15 locomotives (in the Walthers Mainline blue box) have the Proto drive with the helical gears and run very well. Walthers has their own motor. Athearn Genesis locomotives have (or at least had for many years) a decent motor as well (Roco) but the driveline could be hit or miss.
The Athearn locomotive has more detail and a newer shell. For a sound unit the MSRP is $289. The Walthers locomotive has less detail and an older shell. For a sound unit the MSRP is $189. Some people find the additional details to be worth the money, others don't.
Good luck with your decision!
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Post by loco8107 on Jan 9, 2018 8:47:00 GMT -8
To answer your question, the new Walthers GP15 locomotives (in the Walthers Mainline blue box) have the Proto drive with the helical gears and run very well. Walthers has their own motor. Athearn Genesis locomotives have (or at least had for many years) a decent motor as well (Roco) but the driveline could be hit or miss. The Athearn locomotive has more detail and a newer shell. For a sound unit the MSRP is $289. The Walthers locomotive has less detail and an older shell. For a sound unit the MSRP is $189. Some people find the additional details to be worth the money, others don't. Good luck with your decision! Thanks for the answers. I was wondering if the drives are equally good. It sounds like it’s a matter of shell preference/details or not. |
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Post by trainguy99 on Jan 9, 2018 12:49:09 GMT -8
Unless Athearn has changed the design, their trucks can have pickup issues if the axles move around, as noted here: tonystrains.com/athearn-genesis-pickup-problems-fixed/The Walthers Proto truck has metal strips that contact the top of the axle bearings. The contact is very positive. In both cases over oiling the locomotive will interfere with power pickup, or you can use a conductive oil like Excelle, Bachmann, or Atlas have. I've switched to conductive lube and have been very happy with the results. Either way you need very little lube. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jan 9, 2018 14:50:19 GMT -8
Unless Athearn has changed the design, their trucks can have pickup issues if the axles move around, as noted here: tonystrains.com/athearn-genesis-pickup-problems-fixed/The Walthers Proto truck has metal strips that contact the top of the axle bearings. The contact is very positive. In both cases over oiling the locomotive will interfere with power pickup, or you can use a conductive oil like Excelle, Bachmann, or Atlas have. I've switched to conductive lube and have been very happy with the results. Either way you need very little lube. The article posted is about the original Genesis F's which had issues with pick-up. Athearn has made changes to the drive and it is whole lot better. You can't compare the original two axle Genesis drive to the current two axle drive. It gets down to whether you want an older generic shell with minimal detail which can stand up to rougher handling, or one with road specific detail which is more fragile. |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jan 9, 2018 14:55:22 GMT -8
To answer your question, the new Walthers GP15 locomotives (in the Walthers Mainline blue box) have the Proto drive with the helical gears and run very well. Walthers has their own motor. Athearn Genesis locomotives have (or at least had for many years) a decent motor as well (Roco) but the driveline could be hit or miss. The Athearn locomotive has more detail and a newer shell. For a sound unit the MSRP is $289. The Walthers locomotive has less detail and an older shell. For a sound unit the MSRP is $189. Some people find the additional details to be worth the money, others don't. Good luck with your decision! Can't compare MSRP's on these two models. The Genesis GP15-1 can be purchased at deep discounts on the net. Walthers is discounted too, but the spread between price is narrowed. The Athearn RTR drive for four axle road power can or could be hit or miss, mainly because of the "gold standard" motor. The Genesis drives are much more tuned in. That doesn't mean a little tune up wouldn't be a waste of time. Even the RTR drive with some work can also be vastly improved...most of the time....gets back to the "gold standard" motor. Genesis has the top end motor. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 9:51:04 GMT -8
Yep.
I like the Genesis unit because of the tooling fidelity. I had to fix the early trucks as stated; it isn't such a pain for myself since I disassemble the engine anyway during building of the model. I also install kato motors in my units out of personal preference. Originally, it was to make room for a sound decoder and speaker...but now, it's just 'cause.
I just picked up two GP38-2's in MP from the latest run and they are superb runners. I will repaint them, because that's what I do...but they run and look great.
If the Walthers unit has the helical cut gears and such, I am sure it runs great. It would be nice to have the option of a lower priced unit. It's too bad they didn't invest squat in new tooling for their shell!!!
I agree with Jim's points (as usual)...
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jan 10, 2018 16:14:23 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 17:08:12 GMT -8
Beautiful work!
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Post by nsfantodd on Jan 10, 2018 17:54:48 GMT -8
Looks Great!!
Todd
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Post by loco8107 on Feb 11, 2018 15:57:18 GMT -8
How easy is changing the lightbulbs on the Genesis units? I had the upper front headlight go out on me and was wondering if replacing bulbs (with LEDs) is as easy as it is with my Atlas 38.
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Post by nebrzephyr on Feb 11, 2018 18:05:17 GMT -8
My experience with Genesis diesels trying to replace with LEDs is not simple. That’s due to the cab interiors making it difficult to insert the replacement LEDs. And removing the cab interior is risky without causing damage. YMMV
Bob
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Post by loco8107 on Feb 11, 2018 18:17:27 GMT -8
My experience with Genesis diesels trying to replace with LEDs is not simple. That’s due to the cab interiors making it difficult to insert the replacement LEDs. And removing the cab interior is risky without causing damage. YMMV Bob That doesn’t sound too encouraging 😞 |
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Post by loco8107 on Feb 12, 2018 5:43:27 GMT -8
Has anyone had any kind of success changing the genesis bulbs? I really don’t want to sell the unit but I can’t have a burnt out headlight problem either. Suggestions??
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Post by nebrzephyr on Feb 12, 2018 5:53:42 GMT -8
Has anyone had any kind of success changing the genesis bulbs? I really don’t want to sell the unit but I can’t have a burnt out headlight problem either. Suggestions?? Paging Al Mayo!  |
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Post by Judge Doom on Feb 12, 2018 14:55:21 GMT -8
I've done some Genesis SD70 lighting swaps before with LEDs in the past. What I did was get some ~1.5mm fibre optic tubing (cheap off eBay), cut small lengths, melt the ends over a soldering iron to form slightly rounded lenses, inserted them from the outside with some extra length inside (be sure to lightly melt the inside ends too to allow light to pass though), and put a single 3mm LED bulb to the ends of both tubes and heat shrinked over it. It's easier on the GP/SD standard cab units since the cab roof doesn't interfere as much. This also works well on Athearn blue-box units, although the light lens holes are a smidgen larger.
I've also done a few quick n' easy swaps where I just used some Microscale Krystal Klear for the lenses (or bought replacement Athearn lenses off a seller on eBay) and just put a 3mm LED behind to illuminate. Wrap around the LED with electrical tape or insert in a brass or plastic tube to prevent light leak and direct the light forward.
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