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Post by slowfreight on Jan 17, 2018 7:04:51 GMT -8
Been badgering Jason about the standard, peas in a pod F40PH (phase III for me). I keep hearing, "some day if all the umpteen other versions we do first sell well", if I'm lucky. I can't tell you how many times a model comes out (engine or freight car) and what ever paint scheme I want, it's always way at the end of the queue after every other version is offered first. This seems to be the case with the F40PH as well. I'm used to it. The Phase II carbody would be a winner as Amtrak had more of those than any other type. While I love my Phase I carbody units (I have two each in the Phase II and Phase III) they were not utilized heavily together in consists except Boston - New Haven and Los Angeles - San Diego. I would comfortably get 4-8 of the Phase 2 carbody ones to mix it up a bit. I need to hit up Jason about those too. Another thought is to do some commuter units such as GO Transit, Metra, Metrolink, Tri-Rail, Boston, Nashville, and others. Rapido might also find markets in doing special runs of their existing F40PH tooling with some of the promotional wraps that VIA has used, although I bet licensing would be high with some of them such as Spiderman etc. I have no interest in that, but there are those that might such as Spiderman fans etc. Yes, but fully half of the Phase I F40PHs went to RTA, later Metra, and Rapido has shown no appetite to make those. So even thought the Phase II has gone many places in many forms (don't forget Metro North, NJT, and Caltrain), I have a feeling we won't see paint schemes other than Amtrak for a long time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 9:36:25 GMT -8
Last I heard it was pushed to the very back of the project list, with the SD40, Canadian GP9 and GP38-2s in que before it. Rather disappointing.. I read the same [that the Bowser C415 project is being delayed] on one of the FB groups. Correct. The C415 is on the way back burner. Bowser was at the Charlotte, NC show last weekend and I asked about it. Brian
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Post by riogrande on Jan 17, 2018 9:52:56 GMT -8
I read the same [that the Bowser C415 project is being delayed] on one of the FB groups. Correct. The C415 is on the way back burner. Bowser was at the Charlotte, NC show last weekend and I asked about it. Brian That said, Jason should be able to get ALOT of mileage out of both phase I and phase II F40PH's. Let hope it happens in our lift time!
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Post by carrman on Jan 17, 2018 19:02:24 GMT -8
Rebuilt SP SD9's and Milwaukee Road SD9's were announced today. And a couple other roads.
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Post by jbilbrey on Jan 17, 2018 20:11:21 GMT -8
I read the same [that the Bowser C415 project is being delayed] on one of the FB groups. Correct. The C415 is on the way back burner. Bowser was at the Charlotte, NC show last weekend and I asked about it. Brian Thank you for checking on it/confirming the story. I've learned long ago that just because someone on FB writes something, that doesn't make it so. If the Canadian projects (the SD40-2, MLW's, etc.) are keeping the lights on for Bowser, it makes sense for them to continue down that path. I can understand a Canadian modeler's frustration with so many EMD's models painted up as GMD's, but the details not being correct.
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Post by jbilbrey on Jan 17, 2018 20:46:25 GMT -8
Rebuilt SP SD9's and Milwaukee Road SD9's were announced today. And a couple other roads. Yes, but with a delivery date of March 2019. At least, they are being a little more realistic in their production/shipping dates. Wasn't their GP7 announced sometime in the first part of 2017? Anyway, it now has an estimated delivery date of late June 2018. So, it also gives the model railroaders interested in them plenty of time to save the nickels and dimes before they are released, LOL. Anyway, the full list is: Southern Pacific - both "Black Widow" & "Bloody Nose" schemes, with appropriate details to match. Nickel Plate- Phase II units from 1957 to late 1960s CB&Q - Phase I units in service from 1958 to 1971 EJ&E - Ex-DMIR Phase II units in service from the later 1960s to late 1980s MILW - 1959 renumbering through the Mid-1980's
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 21:15:02 GMT -8
Wow, all this venom directed at Walthers?
Look they are not perfect, and I had a bad 2-10-2 which to their credit they did replace, and they do not have much for parts which annoys some, but they have hit some home runs that some are giving them no credit for!
They have done the correct phase of Santa Fe rebuilt in kind early 1980's GP30 with the correct windshield per road number and all the correct details, totally correct for a brief period in time, and they run great!
They have done an amazing job with some modernized F units...maybe not as loaded with details as some Genesis F units, but Walthers has made some smart models that are pretty darn correct without them having to make too many revisions or without too many extra castings. Shows me they are trying for reasonable fidelity without going too far or too costly. Then of course some dont care for the nose contour...and will have a different opinion of reasonable.
And they sit on dealer shelves. Sometimes they make too many engines and then blow them out, like they blew out the ATSF GP30's within just the last year---cheap, too. I seriously suspect the reason you do not see Alco FA1's is because years ago there were way too many and places like Toy TrainHeaven had the LL originals available in factory sealed cases for many years. I mean there was very serious market saturation with that particular model. That is ancient history now, and maybe the market finally gobbled them up, but I also thought there were issues with the FA1 that would need to be fixed, too. All of these could be contributing factors as to why we have not seen the FA1.
Plus Rapido has an FA2 out.
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Post by 12bridge on Jan 18, 2018 5:50:05 GMT -8
Walthers is getting alot of venom because they tend to do things wrong, and they dont listen. I have sent them 3 different messages about a recent announcement issue, and never got so much as an acknowledgment. So, I think we have every right to complain about them from time to time. As it is, they are the foobie kings..
Sure, they have done good stuff, but they have terrible customer service.
I dont have high hopes for the SP SD9E's. As much as I want a bunch..I think I will still hold out for something nicer. Adding a horn and a few lights does not make it road specific, and I have enough other projects that I dont need to start building my own yet.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 18, 2018 6:25:40 GMT -8
I'm going to have to agree - Walthers gets venom for good reasons.
They announce models and then cancel them - jerking us around. They offer foobies rather than doing their home work and offer more accurate models. Example: The newly tooled 40' HO Trailmobile trailers first issue are ALL foobies; yet there are correct schemes they could have offered. I would have loved to have bought a bunch but instead, zero. I don't have cash for foobies when there are plenty of other models being offered that are more accurate. Their newer website is AWEFUL and user hostile.
Walthers does do some nice stuff from time to time, but over-all the track record could be so much better. And look, most of the other manufacturers in the internet age are communicating with customers and willing to listen more openly and give feedback. Heck, we've had Athearn, Rapido, ExactRail, Moloco and Tangent all post here and most of them are responsive to emails. Trainworx and Wheels of Time are on forums much but are very responsive to emails and FB messaging and interacting with us, the customer. These things help facilitate improvements, awareness and goodwill. Walthers hasn't jumped on board that good will train that I've seen.
For a variety of reasons I'm not feeling a lot of love them or throw money at them very often. When I look over the last 5 years of what I have spent my money on in term of numbers of models, Walthers is at the bottom of the list. At present I don't own even one Walthers engine, and most of the Walthers rolling stock I have are models I purchased 10 to 30 years ago and I've been selling some of that off bit by bit. IMO, Walthers could up their game some.
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Post by talltim on Jan 18, 2018 7:37:57 GMT -8
There's no (likely) loco types that I need but it would be nice if anyone produced locos in New York Cross Harbour or Brooklyn East District Terminal paint. Alco S1/S4 or EMD NW2. I could repaint, but its not my main modelling location
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 8:40:18 GMT -8
Seriously just look at the Amtrak models that Walthers has put out, to understand the venom.
* Amfleets that don't roll - but saturated the market ensuring that no other manufacturer will make any * Except for Phase IVb cars, they didn't make enough of them at all. * Amtrak heritage cars in livery that they never wore, while not producing them in the livery they actually had. * Viewliners and Horizon cars? There hasn't been a release of them in years. The cars are routinely going for $100 on ebay, other Walthers passenger cars made around the same time go for $30, maybe. * They made sets of $2000 Metroliners that no-one asked for. Had I bought any, I'd be pissed that they're going for $500 now. * Speaking of metroliners, they did the research but then skipped producing ex-Metroliner cab cars. Perhaps the yellow paint is too expensive.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 18, 2018 9:26:16 GMT -8
Wow, all this venom directed at Walthers? ...they have hit some home runs that some are giving them no credit for! I have said it on other topics, and I'll repeat it here: I thought their GN U28B was just about perfect. There's a credit. An Athearn rep told me they weren't going to do GN passenger F's (except for the blue ones), so I decided to get the Walthers simplified GN F's. I'm not regretting it. But they certainly didn't do "an amazing job" on those. There's no front or rear cut levers. There's no front or rear MU hoses. And the roof detailing is generic and mostly wrong. On the P2K FA-1's,I think we're talking about 15 years ago, here. I know I bought the three unit set of GN ones: GN 310ABC, and thought myself lucky to get them. I also picked up 3 AB sets in undec, for future use. I don't recall anyone mentioning issues. What were they? I do know they were offered with options on the numberboards and dynamics. Yes, what are those issues? Ed
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Post by loco8107 on Jan 18, 2018 11:25:00 GMT -8
Still hoping for the SW1001
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jan 18, 2018 12:57:25 GMT -8
An Athearn rep told me they weren't going to do GN passenger F's (except for the blue ones), so I decided to get the Walthers simplified GN F's. I'm not regretting it. But they certainly didn't do "an amazing job" on those. There's no front or rear cut levers. There's no front or rear MU hoses. And the roof detailing is generic and mostly wrong. Ed Walthers on their Proto F7B's also got the detail behind the intake grilles backwards. The roof corresponds with sides but the openings like the radiator, dynamic, etc. is reversed. Now how a blunder like this made it through any quality control of the test shots of the molds is amazing. That is if there is any real quality control of the test shots. Walthers F7's for the Great Northern Empire Builder in the full Builder Scheme did capture most of the funky vents, etc. that make up a roof of a Great Northern passenger F. However.......GN passenger F's did not necessarily have the same roof hardware, close but not always the same. The screen printed nose MU door on the simplified scheme Great Northern passenger F's is really "special".
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Post by riogrande on Jan 18, 2018 13:27:39 GMT -8
Jim, wasn't Walthers F7 the first P2K diesel produced after they took over Proto from LL? It makes me wonder if LL wasn't developing the F7 but it didn't make it to market until Walthers took over so it was sold as a Walther P2K model. So LL might be responsible for the B until detail snafu you mentioned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 13:33:04 GMT -8
Walthers has the attitude, "Here is what we are making...yes, we know the numbers are wrong, the cubic foot data is wrong, and we're making it anyway." A guy can't even get parts from them. They stock very little replacement parts. I have an undecorated SW1200 on order...and I am looking forward to it, because I have the parts I need from the detail market to complete it.
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Post by hovehicle on Jan 18, 2018 14:30:02 GMT -8
Maybe Walthers has some issues with some details with diesels, but I have a simple suggestion for them: Do more research in the Proto 2000 line and please put the SD60, SD60M, SD70ACE, and ES44AC in the Proto 2000 line. Super detailing a diesel is no longer fun for me; I'd rather add scenery to the layout or run trains. The Mainline series for me means NO PURCHASE!
Vito L.
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Post by buffalobill on Jan 18, 2018 16:18:37 GMT -8
Vito, I agree I have not bought much from Walther's in the last 6 years. The quality has not necesarialy been there. Plus I don't want to spend a bunch of time reworking and detailing their overpriced Mainline stuff. Even their Proto stuff does not stand up that well when compared to the offerings from Athearn Genesis, Scale Trains, Intermountain, etc. I think their high point was their molten sulfur car. I did buy a bunch of those. Not so much anything else. Bill
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Post by carrman on Jan 18, 2018 19:31:54 GMT -8
Walthers is getting alot of venom because they tend to do things wrong, and they dont listen. I have sent them 3 different messages about a recent announcement issue, and never got so much as an acknowledgment. So, I think we have every right to complain about them from time to time. As it is, they are the foobie kings.. Sure, they have done good stuff, but they have terrible customer service. I dont have high hopes for the SP SD9E's. As much as I want a bunch..I think I will still hold out for something nicer. Adding a horn and a few lights does not make it road specific, and I have enough other projects that I dont need to start building my own yet. They are going to do air filter boxes, and the electrical cabinet umbrellas, so there is hope. But, I'm not pre-ordering sight unseen either. And, a shop I deal with called Walthers today and they confirmed the MILW SD9's will have dual tanks which is not correct. Dave
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 20:01:00 GMT -8
Ok, fair enough.
Yes, the FA-1'a are much longer than 15 years ago. If I recall, the actual movable radiator shutters from the LL version would need to be redone today. Not being an FA-1 expert, I'll leave the comments to others. I do think Rapido has provided a pretty thorough analysis of Alco FA models on their website, where at one point they thoroughly discussed the good points and not so good points of existing models.
The Proto RS-27's were absolutely fantastic, but that was ancient history, and they may have been one of the last models tooled on LL's watch?
The U30B's were certainly ok. I like the Illinois Central ones very much, and they are hard to find now. I cannot speak for total fidelity of the body, as I do not know my GE's well enough to know. I will leave those comments to others.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Jan 18, 2018 20:46:58 GMT -8
Ok, fair enough. Yes, the FA-1'a are much longer than 15 years ago. If I recall, the actual movable radiator shutters from the LL version would need to be redone today. Not being an FA-1 expert, I'll leave the comments to others. I do think Rapido has provided a pretty thorough analysis of Alco FA models on their website, where at one point they thoroughly discussed the good points and not so good points of existing models. The Proto RS-27's were absolutely fantastic, but that was ancient history, and they may have been one of the last models tooled on LL's watch? The U30B's were certainly ok. I like the Illinois Central ones very much, and they are hard to find now. I cannot speak for total fidelity of the body, as I do not know my GE's well enough to know. I will leave those comments to others. The movable radiator shutters were the second or third Proto 2000 model done by Life-Like and was an ALCo FA-2. Remember the old brown box era? If I remember correctly it was the BL2, GP18 and then the FA-2, but the GP and FA order could be switched. The old brown box FA-2's also had the moving radiator fan. A system that ran on a band connected to the last flywheel. This more or less made the locomotive run slowly and most people snipped the band and glued the radiator shutters together to prevent them from flopping around like a fish out of water. The FA-1's were released later in the blue box. Another run of both the FA-2's and GP18's were released by Life-Like which included no flopping radiators on both the FA and the GP, as well as no moving fan on the FA. The old brown box FA-2's are all over e-Bay, the blue box version with the upgrades are less common and get better prices.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 23:41:03 GMT -8
Jim--
Thank you for the corrections.
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Post by sd80mac on Jan 19, 2018 7:35:42 GMT -8
No doubt a really fine GP35 would be a fine thing. And I DO agree that some of the design elements could then transfer to the DD. Speaking of missing locos: Where's the P2K Alco FA1's? Actually, I know the answer. Walthers has them. And has had them for years. And has not produced ANY. And because THEY have them, no one else is going to risk cutting a die. So there will be no good FA-1's until...... Maybe forever. Thanks, loads, Walthers. From an SP&S guy, Ed I believe Walthers purchase of the Life-Like Proto line has been mostly a bust from my perspective. Sure they've tweaked a few models, did some good things with the drives, but they release Proto models so sporadically, you'd swear they were giving away the gold in Fort Knox. The cold, hard facts that many modelers seem to ignore are that the Proto releases are not the primary focus for Walthers. They've been far more successful with their Mainline series. That's why you see multiple mainline releases year after year and only 1 or 2 Proto projects annually.
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Post by riogrande on Jan 19, 2018 7:44:51 GMT -8
So far the only Walthers P2k engines I have purchased are an F7ABBA set - one of the earliest releases.
Walthers appeared to do a good job with the D&RGW upgraded SD45 but since I already have a bunch of Athearn which have some RR specific details, I didn't buy any of the Walthers P2k SD45's.
If Walthers would offer an upgraded GP30 in D&RGW with correct nose light - I would probably buy one or two.
As it is, Walthers is planning on doing the P2k SW1200 (which was a nice switcher when LL did it) but in D&RGW finally and with Loksound. I do plan on buying one of those.
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Post by SOMECALLMETIM on Jan 19, 2018 12:40:26 GMT -8
I also have an undecorated SW1200 on order to build a Mopac unit. The all weather window will be the tough part. I haven't seen a commercial detail part exactly like it. I have an undecorated SW1200 on order...and I am looking forward to it, because I have the parts I need from the detail market to complete it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 13:49:52 GMT -8
Fortunately, I won’t need it...I’m modeling CO&E 1147, which was an ex MP SW1200...although it remained blue, it didn’t have an all weather window on CO&E property pin.it/ibeqqq4n6o2ppg
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Post by jbilbrey on Jan 19, 2018 16:20:32 GMT -8
One of the first announcements for this year is coming from Rapido who released a "teaser" photo on FB of their next locomotive project that they intend on formally announcing in 3-4 weeks and added that the locomotive was "only built in the USA and was a pure freight engine." The photo shows what appears to be part of a mold for a locomotive frame. It's too long to be a SW of some sort. And, it isn't the NH EP-5.
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Post by stevef45 on Jan 19, 2018 17:25:29 GMT -8
One of the first announcements for this year is coming from Rapido who released a "teaser" photo on FB of their next locomotive project that they intend on formally announcing in 3-4 weeks and added that the locomotive was "only built in the USA and was a pure freight engine." The photo shows what appears to be part of a mold for a locomotive frame. It's too long to be a SW of some sort. And, it isn't the NH EP-5. i saw that too. Looks to be a very short wheelbase loco.
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Post by carrman on Jan 19, 2018 20:16:19 GMT -8
SDL39? ??
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Post by jbilbrey on Jan 19, 2018 22:16:01 GMT -8
SDL39? ?? I thought of that possibility as well until I read another response by Rapido - This is our first pure US freight diesel locomotive. It was built in the USA, ran all over the USA, and served with many of the major US railroads of the era. While the SDL39 strayed far from WC rails after they bought them, I am not sure if that counts as serving with "many of the major US railroads". The F-M H20-44? Rapido has proven to be more than willing to think outside of the box in the past, but then the major railroads are N&W [following mergers], NYC, PRR, and UP. But, that part around the fuel tank doesn't look right. Here are my two guesses right now. First, I wonder if it is an Alco RS11 - especially a "Phase 2" [EDIT: or a RSD12]. Or, are we looking at the frame for some sort of GE - a U25B for example - with a centered fuel tank with space for air tanks on either end?
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