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Post by rails4dmv on Aug 25, 2018 6:58:35 GMT -8
I just got an e-mail from one of my pushers.....
Lionel is considering purchasing the Model Power & Mantua line from MRC. Seems like their HO Scale Polar Express was a success for them to even consider getting back into a crowded HO market.
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leikec
Junior Member
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Post by leikec on Aug 25, 2018 7:22:48 GMT -8
Yeah...we definitely need Lionel's attention to detail and quality control in HO...  Jeff C |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 25, 2018 7:43:10 GMT -8
It's not like Model Power and Mantua are currently known for attention to detail.
Or did I blink?
Ed
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Post by brakie on Aug 25, 2018 8:34:22 GMT -8
It's not like Model Power and Mantua are currently known for attention to detail. Or did I blink? Ed Ed,Have no fear you did not blink.
I have a Model Power RS11 that, to me, is priceless because my late wife bough it for me for our first Christmas.
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Post by rails4dmv on Aug 25, 2018 8:52:13 GMT -8
A couple of the Mantua steamers are good runners for beginners. Model Power on the other hand, their structure kits aren't that bad & I use to own a few of their brass single & double slip tracks which were bulletproof.
But I still scratch my head as I remember that Model Power F2A or that DCC Ready F7A with the "metal plated" finish they came out with a several years ago.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 25, 2018 9:45:14 GMT -8
I, too, have fond memories of Mantua steam locos. But NOT because they were prototype-perfection.
Although I didn't have one, I also liked the dual-motor F"9". My neighbor did. There is SO much room for added weight. And TRACTION TIRES. Yeeeoww!
Ed
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Aug 25, 2018 10:10:16 GMT -8
By no means am I a Model Power fan, but I do own several of their Metal Train flatcars. They're...nice. They have separate grabs, and are certainly the best tracking flatcars I own 'cause they weigh a goodly amount and roll very well. The brakewheel staff is, um, large, but that can be replaced. I have no idea if it's an accurate model of any prototype but then I can say that about most of my freight equipment.
As for Lionel, they've tried HO a bunch of times and each time it has failed to catch on. I'm surprised they are trying yet again to enter this market.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 17:16:07 GMT -8
They announced this at the national train show. They purchased Model Power and Mantua, don't plan on continuing the Model Power N scale line ("No plans"), and... I'm not sure what their end goal is. Nothing that the bought is very high end, but it's also (IMO) too old of tooling for starter set stuff. The Mantua products are solid, but they didn't sell when Model Power owned them so I'm not sure what Lionel thinks they can bring to the table.
Either way, I've always liked Lionel HO. It was always well made for the time, and had the "fun" factor that the high end of the hobby shies away from.
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Post by fcixdarrell on Aug 25, 2018 20:02:04 GMT -8
Either way, I've always liked Lionel HO. It was always well made for the time, and had the "fun" factor that the high end of the hobby shies away from. Just out of curiosity, what's the "fun factor" that's missing from high end products? Thanks, Darrell |
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Aug 26, 2018 5:24:33 GMT -8
Either way, I've always liked Lionel HO. It was always well made for the time, and had the "fun" factor that the high end of the hobby shies away from. Just out of curiosity, what's the "fun factor" that's missing from high end products? Thanks, Darrell Giraffe popping out of a boxcar! Launching missiles at an exploding boxcar!!!! Oh boy!!!!!! |
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Post by slowfreight on Aug 26, 2018 5:27:44 GMT -8
Just for the contrarian point of view, it's been pretty good for the collector every time Lionel dabbled in HO, simply because it never sells when new.
And how else can I get my Rock Island repowered FA if I don't have Jim's talent???
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Post by rails4dmv on Aug 26, 2018 7:19:50 GMT -8
Model Power did have a quite of bit of boxed train sets on the market at one point. If Lionel could put together a decent DCC ready loco, a couple of box cars & a caboose with a oval of tracks for kids or hobby beginners for under $100, it could be possible for Lionel to tap into the Bachmann market.
And if Lionel can get into stores like Walmart or Target, where there are currently no electric trains on their shelves, they might see some decent business come their way.
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Post by snootie3257 on Aug 26, 2018 8:18:55 GMT -8
Those are two mighty big ifs
Steve
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Post by fcixdarrell on Aug 26, 2018 9:07:40 GMT -8
Model Power did have a quite of bit of boxed train sets on the market at one point. If Lionel could put together a decent DCC ready loco, a couple of box cars & a caboose with a oval of tracks for kids or hobby beginners for under $100, it could be possible for Lionel to tap into the Bachmann market. And if Lionel can get into stores like Walmart or Target, where there are currently no electric trains on their shelves, they might see some decent business come their way. Walmart and Target don't carry train sets for the simple reason that they don't sell in quantities that make them worth carrying. That train left the station years ago. There are a lot more profitable items to carry on the toy shelves than train sets, unfortunately. When I was a kid in Seattle, every major department store had a toy section, complete with a huge selection of model trains. By the time I was in my teens, no more trains in department stores, and then not too much later, no more toy departments in most. The world has changed... Darrell |
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Post by rails4dmv on Aug 26, 2018 10:11:15 GMT -8
Model Power did have a quite of bit of boxed train sets on the market at one point. If Lionel could put together a decent DCC ready loco, a couple of box cars & a caboose with a oval of tracks for kids or hobby beginners for under $100, it could be possible for Lionel to tap into the Bachmann market. And if Lionel can get into stores like Walmart or Target, where there are currently no electric trains on their shelves, they might see some decent business come their way. Walmart and Target don't carry train sets for the simple reason that they don't sell in quantities that make them worth carrying. That train left the station years ago. There are a lot more profitable items to carry on the toy shelves than train sets, unfortunately. When I was a kid in Seattle, every major department store had a toy section, complete with a huge selection of model trains. By the time I was in my teens, no more trains in department stores, and then not too much later, no more toy departments in most. The world has changed... Darrell I know, the days of brick & mortar stores carrying aisles & aisles of toys are long gone, which is sad. I never thought that there would be a day that there wasn't a major toy store chain operating in the US.
But my Walmart last year Black Friday had a skid of Lionel O Gauge Coca-Cola trainsets and also a Lionel dinosaur set. I don't remember if the sets were electric or battery powered but they looked like they sold them all off by the time I left the store. Maybe Lionel had a deal in place with Walmart to try selling sets in a select markets or maybe the toy dept. buyer lucked up on a closeout.
I guess we will have to see what Lionel plans on doing with Model Power or Mantua since they aren't top line items.
I'm still surprised there's still a considerable market for old Tyco, Life-Like & AHM trains so Lionel could find a market if they don't get into silly things like Amtrak bullet trains.
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Post by llxlocomotives on Aug 26, 2018 11:52:54 GMT -8
It is interesting that Lionel would look to get back into HO and would not focus on N scale. The why they would do one or the other should be obvious. Keeping in mind that they are a “model” train manufacture. The demand for O scale is less than HO just because of the space requirements. Yes, there are fervent deciples in all scales, but I would bet the O scale numbers are shrinking. From that perspective, it is easy to see the why they would try again.
The problem they had with the other tries was trying to use someone else’s designs with Lionel name on it. The last time they used basically Bachman designs in unique schemes. The quality was still Bachmann, which was a poor choice even then. This time they are starting from Mantua and Model Power. The latter really was not a design organization per .say. They also bought others basic products in unique schemes. Mantua had some good at the time steam designs and later used other people’s diesels. In today’s world, that model may work better than it did in the past.
Their success will depend on what their primary market is. Are they focused on toy trains, or are they looking to participate in the mainstream HO market. Their main competition in O scale, MTH, has certainly tried to be closer to mainstream.
It will be interesting to see how they play it.
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 27, 2018 0:21:24 GMT -8
Interestingly, I was in a Boscov's in January and they had quite a few HO and On30 sets, all Bachmann, plus IIRC some Lionel sets. This is a regional department store with most locations in eastern Pennylvania and New Jersey; I expect they'll grow a little more as Sears retracts. Unfortunately I haven't been back since to see if they moved any or blew them out on clearance, none is quite close enough to me to check regularly.
It would be ironic for Lionel to get back into HO selling items made from circa-1960 Marx tooling - the F2A, 4-wheel diesel, 0-4-0 steamer and all the Model Power freight cars all come from Marx, although the locomotive drives were greatly improved.
There already is a relatively cheap version of each of those 4 wheel locomotives with DCC Sound. No idea how they sounded or worked, I think they retailed around $100. When the nice Atlas aren't selling for $100 I didn't see sense in adding a cheesy toy engine to sell for nearly as much.
Model Power buildings are virtually all by Pola, so who knows what happens there.
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Post by gevohogger on Aug 27, 2018 4:28:46 GMT -8
Maybe they can make an F unit. The market can never have too many F units.
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Post by bnsf971 on Aug 27, 2018 5:19:59 GMT -8
Most of the "current" Model Power/Mantua locomotives are DCC ready, or DCC and sound equipped. For entry-level, get-your-foot-in-the-door stuff, it wasn't a bad thing to be able to offer a DCC and sound equipped steam engine for less than a hundred bucks, new.
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Post by sd80mac on Aug 27, 2018 6:37:28 GMT -8
If Lionel could shrink some of their Vision Line, Lionmaster and Joshua Lionel Cowen series offerings down to HO scale, they could have some seriously nice models. They have made a lot of locomotives, particularly steamers, that haven't been done in HO before. I own a Lionel UP Challenger from their last foray into HO, and it has to be one of the nicest, best running HO models I own.
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Aug 27, 2018 15:42:42 GMT -8
I own a Lionel UP Challenger from their last foray into HO, and it has to be one of the nicest, best running HO models I own. A pair graces my roundhouse with similar results. |
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Post by alfsboy on Aug 29, 2018 1:02:06 GMT -8
Either way, I've always liked Lionel HO. It was always well made for the time, and had the "fun" factor that the high end of the hobby shies away from. Just out of curiosity, what's the "fun factor" that's missing from high end products? Thanks, Darrell Kids can pick them up without 25 bucks of fine detail falling off or breaking ? |
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 29, 2018 3:46:14 GMT -8
Really, that's what's needed again is new, low-end items with reasonable detail and more reasonable pricing. Even Bachmann stuff has climbed in price to upwards of $100 for a locomotive. As a result when I have the old stuff, it sells fairly well, save some of the most junky things.
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Aug 29, 2018 5:00:45 GMT -8
lvrr325,
Like the P1K, Walthers Trainline, Atlas Trainman, or Scale Trains Operator lines? Or do you mean like the Athearn BB's that one can still find? Because that's part of the problem. Any new low-end line still has to compete with decades-old Athearn product that is still out there, new-in-box. That'd be a tough sell, IMHO.
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Post by grahamline on Aug 29, 2018 7:03:53 GMT -8
My dealer has a stack of Accurail kits about six kits high and a dozen kits wide, but they don't move around here because 1: They aren't SP or BNSF, and 2: they have to be assembled. His older Athearn stock disappeared a couple of years ago.
He also stocks sets with some sort of plastic-ballasted track, and basic engines and cars, but they don't turn over very fast. Will Lionel build to a price point, or will they go for HO "tinplate" like some other manufacturers?
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Post by wp8thsub on Aug 29, 2018 14:57:55 GMT -8
My dealer has a stack of Accurail kits about six kits high and a dozen kits wide, but they don't move around here because 1: They aren't SP or BNSF, and 2: they have to be assembled. And perhaps 3: Most of us have only so much use for what Accurail has to offer, and only so much forbearance with their shortcomings. They have a high percentage of foobie paint jobs, and many that are not well executed. Put a typical Accurail car next to something like Atlas or Athearn RTR, and the quality downgrade in paint and lettering is often pretty obvious. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Sept 2, 2018 19:20:11 GMT -8
No, not that crap. Something closer to Bachmann but not priced as insanely as Bachmann is.
I can sell 40 year old Mehano GP18s and C628s all day long for $20-$30 depending what roadname.
A lot of folks forget there's all kinds of people in the hobby besides those who care if there's one rivet too many on the side of a boxcar. Not everyone cares if all the details are correct or whether or not they're molded on, they just want a train that they can run around and enjoy. That's why a kid bought a Tyco New Haven "GG1" from me in March.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 3:28:26 GMT -8
No, not that crap. Something closer to Bachmann but not priced as insanely as Bachmann is. I can sell 40 year old Mehano GP18s and C628s all day long for $20-$30 depending what roadname. A lot of folks forget there's all kinds of people in the hobby besides those who care if there's one rivet too many on the side of a boxcar. Not everyone cares if all the details are correct or whether or not they're molded on, they just want a train that they can run around and enjoy. That's why a kid bought a Tyco New Haven "GG1" from me in March. Yes. I was that kid 35 years ago. I think the hobby sustains itself by having a lower "price point" item(s). I remember my Tyco "Chattanooga" GP20...So Accurail meets that standard with their kits. They practically fall together...and look decent. They have lots of foobies, as Rob states. They also have thick, molded on details. But, I used to get them for $10. Couldn't beat that...picked up a few each payday...building a train. As the modeler advances; we venture into the higher end replica stage of model railroading. |
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Post by riogrande on Sept 7, 2018 3:38:10 GMT -8
I think the hobby sustains itself by having a lower "price point" item(s). I remember my Tyco "Chattanooga" GP20...So Accurail meets that standard with their kits. They practically fall together...and look decent. They have lots of foobies, as Rob states. They also have thick, molded on details. But, I used to get them for $10. Couldn't beat that...picked up a few each payday...building a train. As the modeler advances; we venture into the higher end replica stage of model railroading. Exactly. Accurail sort of bridges the gap between the el-cheapo train set stuff like Tyco and provides decent looking rolling stock to help a train hobbyist progress along; eventually many crave higher fidelity. With some upgrades and weathering, some of the Accurail cars can blend in and fill some gaps in a fleet. I've picked up a few that I've found to be visual matches to some 40' box cars still running around in the late 1970's as I was lacking 40' box cars. |
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