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Post by rrpolice on Apr 1, 2019 3:05:16 GMT -8
Topic cleaned up. Please keep discussion on-topic. Direct non-related discussion elsewhere please such as Crew Lounge or Administrative section.
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Post by sd80mac on Apr 1, 2019 6:39:49 GMT -8
While I probably won't be in the market for an SD90MAC-H, I'm definitely excited for the future SD80MAC, SD90MAC and SD70ACU models that will no doubt follow these. Well done, Athearn!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 8:12:31 GMT -8
And like a couple of other posters have said: the improvements on this model will carry forward on future releases.
I like the way the assembly looks; the handrails; the paint job; the etched steps!!
I will definitely listen to some new Tsunami 2 decoders...based on the comments here.
I am thinking about one of these now; possibly getting some modern Joppa and Eastern Hoppers (JE); and maybe a couple ScaleTrains C44-9's...in UP. Just one modern coal train with DPU. Put the 90MAC on the rear as DPU.
Kudos Athearn!!!
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cp9002
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Post by cp9002 on Apr 3, 2019 4:44:55 GMT -8
I wonder what they are using for for sound recordings? There are not any Hs left running anymore. I would like to know if they got their hands on an old recording or if they just made something up completely.
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Post by bdhicks on Apr 3, 2019 5:38:35 GMT -8
If they couldn't get a SD90MAC-H pulled out of storage for recording, China's got a bunch of locomotives with 16-265Hs that are still running.
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Post by sd80mac on Apr 3, 2019 6:43:56 GMT -8
If they couldn't get a SD90MAC-H pulled out of storage for recording, China's got a bunch of locomotives with 16-265Hs that are still running. Are there even any left in storage? I know CP's 4 were scrapped, and I believe most if not all of UP's were as well? |
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Post by middledivision on Apr 3, 2019 8:34:52 GMT -8
While I probably won't be in the market for an SD90MAC-H, I'm definitely excited for the future SD80MAC, SD90MAC and SD70ACU models that will no doubt follow these. Well done, Athearn! They did the H first so they could use the "Never done before in plastic" marketing. If they came out with the regular 80/90 Macs first, how many H's would they sell? Still, the UP and CP versions will probably sell. I'm in for a pair of CR 80's when they show up and the NS rebuilds should sell really well. |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 3, 2019 9:10:33 GMT -8
While I probably won't be in the market for an SD90MAC-H, I'm definitely excited for the future SD80MAC, SD90MAC and SD70ACU models that will no doubt follow these. Well done, Athearn! They did the H first so they could use the "Never done before in plastic" marketing. Clever! Or as Golum would say, tricksy! There have been a lot of comments about how few thes -H models were and short lived, so it makes sense to maximize the model and the marketing value of never done in plastic. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2019 6:37:54 GMT -8
While I probably won't be in the market for an SD90MAC-H, I'm definitely excited for the future SD80MAC, SD90MAC and SD70ACU models that will no doubt follow these. Well done, Athearn!
I suspect Athearn may have more interest in doing the SD70ACU now that CP has introduced 5 commemorative paint schemes for Remembrance Day / Veterans Day yesterday - CP media release |
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Post by cr9617 on Nov 12, 2019 9:58:12 GMT -8
ooohh i like 6644 in the spitfire scheme.
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Post by thunderhawk on Nov 12, 2019 11:33:52 GMT -8
While I probably won't be in the market for an SD90MAC-H, I'm definitely excited for the future SD80MAC, SD90MAC and SD70ACU models that will no doubt follow these. Well done, Athearn!
I suspect Athearn may have more interest in doing the SD70ACU now that CP has introduced 5 commemorative paint schemes for Remembrance Day / Veterans Day yesterday - CP media releaseRumor is they are going to get on the heritage bandwagon as well. |
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Post by cp6027 on Nov 12, 2019 12:14:29 GMT -8
I suspect Athearn may have more interest in doing the SD70ACU now that CP has introduced 5 commemorative paint schemes for Remembrance Day / Veterans Day yesterday - CP media releaseRumor is they are going to get on the heritage bandwagon as well. In addition to the ten SD70ACUs in the maroon and grey script (7010-7014) and block (7015-7019) schemes? TH&B, Soo, MILW, MN&S, DSS&A, D&H could all yield interesting schemes if they went the predecessor route. They've already had the D&H GP38-2 7304 for quite some time. |
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Post by Judge Doom on Nov 12, 2019 13:01:56 GMT -8
Rumor is they are going to get on the heritage bandwagon as well. In addition to the ten SD70ACUs in the maroon and grey script (7010-7014) and block (7015-7019) schemes? TH&B, Soo, MILW, MN&S, DSS&A, D&H could all yield interesting schemes if they went the predecessor route. They've already had the D&H GP38-2 7304 for quite some time. Well, D&H 7303, 7304 and 7312 for the longest time (although 7312 was cycled through the GP38-2 rebuild program and repainted standard CP). Those two remaining D&H units were supposed to get rebuilt and painted CP, but as yet haven't been. Most of the remaining SOO units (notably the SD60-SD60M fleet) have been rebuilt and repainted as well. Most if not all of the SOO SD40-2 fleet has been retired or sold off. There might be a few GP38-2's still kicking in SOO paint, but again, most of those have also been rebuilt in the GP38-2 rebuild program. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Nov 12, 2019 13:13:39 GMT -8
That D&H Geep has been kind of annoying to MILW fans as CP said, 15 or more years ago, there was no chance of an orange and black GP40. Of course ideas and management change so we'll see but that is the rumor concerning the 70's.
Ran the 7304 once on one of it's rare visits to the Soo. Was kinda neat as I'm into the historic railroads versus the modern stuff.
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Post by es80ac on Nov 12, 2019 21:44:53 GMT -8
two issues I find with Athearn's SD90H based on the info they released on Youtube:
1. The CP plow is wrong, it looks like they used UP plow on the CP units, the CP units had a more squared off plow
2. The sound record is something they synphesized out of an old Youtube recording. They should have send somebody over seas to take a real recording off an running EMD H engines in the orient.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 13, 2019 3:38:47 GMT -8
two issues I find with Athearn's SD90H based on the info they released on Youtube: 1. The CP plow is wrong, it looks like they used UP plow on the CP units, the CP units had a more squared off plow 2. The sound record is something they synphesized out of an old Youtube recording. They should have send somebody over seas to take a real recording off an running EMD H engines in the orient. What did Athearn say when you provided them with this feedback and good quality supporting detail photos? |
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Post by es80ac on Nov 13, 2019 8:04:48 GMT -8
two issues I find with Athearn's SD90H based on the info they released on Youtube: 1. The CP plow is wrong, it looks like they used UP plow on the CP units, the CP units had a more squared off plow 2. The sound record is something they synphesized out of an old Youtube recording. They should have send somebody over seas to take a real recording off an running EMD H engines in the orient. What did Athearn say when you provided them with this feedback and good quality supporting detail photos? I posted those questions and comments on their Youtube video of the SD90H, there is no response on that. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 11:57:07 GMT -8
What did Athearn say when you provided them with this feedback and good quality supporting detail photos? I posted those questions and comments on their Youtube video of the SD90H, there is no response on that. YouTube comments aren't the best way to get that sort of thing dealt with, far better to either email or use a contact form (depending on what a given manufacturer provides) which enables the feedback to get to the actual people in charge of the project as opposed to the social media/pr type people. But as stated it is also important to provide supporting items to demonstrate the issue, whether it be an actual photo or a link to a photo, to make clear what the issue you are referring to is. Having said the above, there are always limitations to how much money can be spent on tooling up a project. I am not familiar enough with the prototype to know but if the plow is unique to CP SD90MAC-H2 units and not say used on any other CP diesels then it may have been impossible to justify the cost of tooling a different plow. Same thing with going overseas to record an engine - that dramatically increases the costs of doing the sound and likely would make it impossible. With that said, there is nothing stopping a fan from getting a recording and making their own sound files to be used with the Loksound decoders. |
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Post by raptorengineer on Nov 13, 2019 21:09:30 GMT -8
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Nov 13, 2019 21:43:10 GMT -8
That will give me some incentive to finish benchwork and have, at least, the lower level on new layout operational for test . I have one of the CP versions on order. |
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 13, 2019 21:43:56 GMT -8
I posted those questions and comments on their Youtube video of the SD90H, there is no response on that. YouTube comments aren't the best way to get that sort of thing dealt with, far better to either email or use a contact form (depending on what a given manufacturer provides) which enables the feedback to get to the actual people in charge of the project as opposed to the social media/pr type people. But as stated it is also important to provide supporting items to demonstrate the issue, whether it be an actual photo or a link to a photo, to make clear what the issue you are referring to is. Having said the above, there are always limitations to how much money can be spent on tooling up a project. I am not familiar enough with the prototype to know but if the plow is unique to CP SD90MAC-H2 units and not say used on any other CP diesels then it may have been impossible to justify the cost of tooling a different plow. Same thing with going overseas to record an engine - that dramatically increases the costs of doing the sound and likely would make it impossible. With that said, there is nothing stopping a fan from getting a recording and making their own sound files to be used with the Loksound decoders. At this point it doesn't matter. The chance to send a proper communication was missed, and those models are almost surely in production right now. IMO, the snowplow isn't that big of a deal anyway. Other than the horn, they are probably the thing most likely to get changed or modified on any given locomotive, given their location near the ground where occasionally there are obstacles. I've seen photos of CP SD40-2s that went from having rock pilots to snowplows and back several times over their lives. |
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Post by es80ac on Nov 13, 2019 22:55:21 GMT -8
YouTube comments aren't the best way to get that sort of thing dealt with, far better to either email or use a contact form (depending on what a given manufacturer provides) which enables the feedback to get to the actual people in charge of the project as opposed to the social media/pr type people. But as stated it is also important to provide supporting items to demonstrate the issue, whether it be an actual photo or a link to a photo, to make clear what the issue you are referring to is. Having said the above, there are always limitations to how much money can be spent on tooling up a project. I am not familiar enough with the prototype to know but if the plow is unique to CP SD90MAC-H2 units and not say used on any other CP diesels then it may have been impossible to justify the cost of tooling a different plow. Same thing with going overseas to record an engine - that dramatically increases the costs of doing the sound and likely would make it impossible. With that said, there is nothing stopping a fan from getting a recording and making their own sound files to be used with the Loksound decoders. At this point it doesn't matter. The chance to send a proper communication was missed, and those models are almost surely in production right now. IMO, the snowplow isn't that big of a deal anyway. Other than the horn, they are probably the thing most likely to get changed or modified on any given locomotive, given their location near the ground where occasionally there are obstacles. I've seen photos of CP SD40-2s that went from having rock pilots to snowplows and back several times over their lives. Unfortunately in this case snowplow does matter. The CP plow is a basically a vertically edged piece with notches at the bottom, the UP plow is curved inward towards the bottom. The CP plow gives the CP SD90H a very unique look as if the head is somewhat squared. The details seems subtle, but the overall effect is ruined with the wrong plow. One can Google a few photos of the CP units to see what I mean. |
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Post by thunderhawk on Nov 13, 2019 23:53:18 GMT -8
There's no guarantee the Chinese units sound the same either. The silencers are likely different. As I recall from running both CP and UP MAC-H's (we actually got UP Big Mac's on coal trains occasionally) they did not bark like a typical (GE) 4 stroke locomotive when in 8 and they sounded very different at idle. The idle sound was like it had a big cam in it. Sounded kind of mean sitting there waiting to go.
Will be interesting to hear how the model sounds.
I'll probably pick one up as I really liked running the real thing. Those things were beasts on both heavy intermodals and coal trains. Will be the only thing built after '76 I own.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 6:01:51 GMT -8
At this point it doesn't matter. The chance to send a proper communication was missed, and those models are almost surely in production right now. IMO, the snowplow isn't that big of a deal anyway. Other than the horn, they are probably the thing most likely to get changed or modified on any given locomotive, given their location near the ground where occasionally there are obstacles. I've seen photos of CP SD40-2s that went from having rock pilots to snowplows and back several times over their lives. Unfortunately in this case snowplow does matter. The CP plow is a basically a vertically edged piece with notches at the bottom, the UP plow is curved inward towards the bottom. The CP plow gives the CP SD90H a very unique look as if the head is somewhat squared. The details seems subtle, but the overall effect is ruined with the wrong plow. One can Google a few photos of the CP units to see what I mean.
The point being made wasn't that the plow doesn't matter from a visual perspective, but rather that you missed your opportunity to possibly have the issue dealt with. With the SD90MAC-H2 models likely in production if not almost finished it is simply too late to even consider making a different plow.
And sorry, a comment on YouTube saying the plow is wrong doesn't count as there are just as many incorrect claims online as there are correct ones. Which is why we are pointing out for the future (either for you or anyone else reading this) the best way to make sure your concerns are dealt with is direct communication with the manufacturer in question, with supporting data to demonstrate the point you are trying to make.
It doesn't mean you issue will be acted on, because again the cost of tooling a fix need to considered against the ability to make a profit, but you stand a far better chance than a random comment on social media or web forum.
The good news is that, unlike some other issues people have with various models, it should be relatively easy to fix if it really bothers you that much.
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Post by es80ac on Nov 14, 2019 6:19:37 GMT -8
Unfortunately in this case snowplow does matter. The CP plow is a basically a vertically edged piece with notches at the bottom, the UP plow is curved inward towards the bottom. The CP plow gives the CP SD90H a very unique look as if the head is somewhat squared. The details seems subtle, but the overall effect is ruined with the wrong plow. One can Google a few photos of the CP units to see what I mean.
The point being made wasn't that the plow doesn't matter from a visual perspective, but rather that you missed your opportunity to possibly have the issue dealt with. With the SD90MAC-H2 models likely in production if not almost finished it is simply too late to even consider making a different plow.
And sorry, a comment on YouTube saying the plow is wrong doesn't count as there are just as many incorrect claims online as there are correct ones. Which is why we are pointing out for the future (either for you or anyone else reading this) the best way to make sure your concerns are dealt with is direct communication with the manufacturer in question, with supporting data to demonstrate the point you are trying to make.
It doesn't mean you issue will be acted on, because again the cost of tooling a fix need to considered against the ability to make a profit, but you stand a far better chance than a random comment on social media or web forum.
The good news is that, unlike some other issues people have with various models, it should be relatively easy to fix if it really bothers you that much.
I actually posted my comment underneath the Athearn video several months ago shortly after they posted on Youtube. They did respond to my question about when these will be in the stores, but chose to ignore the other question about the plow. The way they gushed about how "acccurate" and road specific detailed they have made these, it is somewhat disappointing that an obvious details about this is missed/overlooked. I guess I will be only buying the UP version and pass on the CP version. But like you mentioned plow is somewhat easy to replace as a DYI. |
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 14, 2019 6:20:20 GMT -8
Unfortunately in this case snowplow does matter. The CP plow is a basically a vertically edged piece with notches at the bottom, the UP plow is curved inward towards the bottom. The CP plow gives the CP SD90H a very unique look as if the head is somewhat squared. The details seems subtle, but the overall effect is ruined with the wrong plow. One can Google a few photos of the CP units to see what I mean.
es80ac:
I have looked at numerous google images of both prototype and model and cannot see the plow differences you are referring to. The only things that stand out to me are the two bottom corner notches, which can be easily filed to match. Everything else about the plow looks pretty close to me. Can you link to specific images or post a side-by-side comparison photo to support your assertion? Or, is there a detail part of the correct specific part available that we can compare to? Please post specifics.
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Post by es80ac on Nov 14, 2019 6:24:19 GMT -8
There's no guarantee the Chinese units sound the same either. The silencers are likely different. As I recall from running both CP and UP MAC-H's (we actually got UP Big Mac's on coal trains occasionally) they did not bark like a typical (GE) 4 stroke locomotive when in 8 and they sounded very different at idle. The idle sound was like it had a big cam in it. Sounded kind of mean sitting there waiting to go. Will be interesting to hear how the model sounds. I'll probably pick one up as I really liked running the real thing. Those things were beasts on both heavy intermodals and coal trains. Will be the only thing built after '76 I own. Glad to hear from someone what actually ran one of these! Did you also ran UP AC6000CWs (pre-downrated)? Very curious as to how you think about the GE 6000HP units vs SD90Hs, how did they compare running with a heavy load? I can try to find some urls of the Chinese HXN3 (6000HP EMD) to post here. A few years ago they were running a single unit on 10000 metric ton coal trains, so the sound on some the videos are quiet clear as they were really being worked. |
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Post by es80ac on Nov 14, 2019 6:33:13 GMT -8
Unfortunately in this case snowplow does matter. The CP plow is a basically a vertically edged piece with notches at the bottom, the UP plow is curved inward towards the bottom. The CP plow gives the CP SD90H a very unique look as if the head is somewhat squared. The details seems subtle, but the overall effect is ruined with the wrong plow. One can Google a few photos of the CP units to see what I mean.
es80ac:
I have looked at numerous google images of both prototype and model and cannot see the plow differences you are referring to. The only things that stand out to me are the two bottom corner notches, which can be easily filed to match. Everything else about the plow looks pretty close to me. Can you link to specific images or post a side-by-side comparison photo to support your assertion? Or, is there a detail part of the correct specific part available that we can compare to? Please post specifics.
I actually made a comparison picture of the real thing vs the Athearn sample. Unfortunately due to the 1mb limitation, I can't post it here. This is a couple picture of the real thing, note how the CP tall plow goes straight down, then notches in at the bottom. The CP plow in fact covers the corner of the steps when you look at the unit from the front. The model and UP ones have the edge slanted inward towards the bottom, that gives it a more rounded look rather the more brutish look of the CP version. The corner of the steps are exposed in this case, as it is on the Athearn model. www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2347100www.railpictures.net/photo/403278/Photo of the Athearn model www.overlandhobbies.com/CPR_4_Rd_s_SD90MAC_H_Phase_II_Standard_DC_p/athg27230-3.htm |
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 14, 2019 6:48:15 GMT -8
es80ac:
>I actually made a comparison picture of the real thing vs the Athearn sample. Unfortunately due to the 1mb limitation, I can't post it here.
Feel free to PM or else email your comparison attachment to me via my website (railbus.ca).
>This is a couple picture of the real thing, note how the CP tall plow goes straight down, then notches in at the bottom. The model and UP ones have the edge slanted inward towards the bottom, that gives it a more rounded look rather the more brutish look of the CP version
OK thanks. I think I see it now. The model plow appears to almost have ears or flairs. I also see there are two smaller, sharper notches in the top corners of the prototype plow.
Thinking like a modeller, can these notches and flairs not simply be addressed through careful filing? A correct aftermarket detail part does not appear to be available.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 7:25:50 GMT -8
And sorry, a comment on YouTube saying the plow is wrong doesn't count as there are just as many incorrect claims online as there are correct ones. Which is why we are pointing out for the future (either for you or anyone else reading this) the best way to make sure your concerns are dealt with is direct communication with the manufacturer in question, with supporting data to demonstrate the point you are trying to make. I actually posted my comment underneath the Athearn video several months ago shortly after they posted on Youtube. They did respond to my question about when these will be in the stores, but chose to ignore the other question about the plow.
Again, read what is being said.
Random comments on social media do not get much done - I did go look through the comments and did see what I take to be your comment. A rather generic comment stating that the plow was wrong, and as such it failed on 2 key points from a manufacturer perspective (as previously mentioned):
1) it provided no proof. If you want these companies to even consider your feedback you need to provide proof of what you are claiming. There are far too many false claims made for these companies to attempt to research every piece of feedback they receive.
2) you didn't directly communicate with them. The people in charge of the product aren't following the Facebook/YouTube/Twitter/random Internet forums, so they likely never saw your feedback.
Yes, you got a response about delivery estimates, because that is something the social media/pr people have information to answer with. But that doesn't mean they know the intricate details of the design of the model because they aren't doing that.
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