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Post by stevewagner on Nov 5, 2019 5:28:53 GMT -8
I agree with Larry in not welcoming the fact that the first Genesis models of International Car Company cabooses Athearn has announced are available only with lights. I am an inveterate collector of different types of cabeese -- at least they're less expensive of locomotives -- even including quite a few that as far as I know never appeared on D&H or B&M lines. I'd really like to see similarly correctly detailed ICC cars matching those used by many other railroads, but without lights at a list price less than $109.98!
Aside from the first group of D&H extra wide vision cupola cabooses, the ICC-built cars I'd most like to see are the bay window ones that the D&H bought new, with the correct window arrangement, of course. Next after that would be Maine Central cupola cabooses with and without the wide vision feature and the Nickel Plate Road's bay window type.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 6:25:28 GMT -8
I ordered a CB&Q and UP slogan car...just to support the project...in anticipation of future cars!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 6:40:28 GMT -8
I agree with Larry in not welcoming the fact that the first Genesis models of International Car Company cabooses Athearn has announced are available only with lights. I am an inveterate collector of different types of cabeese -- at least they're less expensive of locomotives -- even including quite a few that as far as I know never appeared on D&H or B&M lines. I'd really like to see similarly correctly detailed ICC cars matching those used by many other railroads, but without lights at a list price less than $109.98!
My guess, removing the lights would mean a higher priced product.
For a lot of people in this hobby things like working lights are an essential part of the buying decision process, and no lights would mean those buyers either passing or buying fewer. Lower sales, higher unit costs, higher list price.
Realistically, in addition to the above the costs of lights is minimal. The LEDs themselves are likely under a dollar, and a quick search online reveals NCE has a DCC light decoder that *retails* at $110 for 15. My guess is Athearn is getting a better price than the $7.33 per unit retail a consumer can pay.
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Post by simulatortrain on Nov 5, 2019 7:02:17 GMT -8
Personally I'd just like to see working markers and maybe a little light over the conductor's desk, but it is what it is. The bigger decision for me is whether I want sound given that little horn on the P&WV car. Would I ever seriously use it or is it just a novelty? Hard to say.
Side note: have those Tsunami soundcar decoders increased in price since they first came out? I seem to remember a three-pack originally costing about what a single costs now.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 5, 2019 7:37:15 GMT -8
On the UP and Q cabeese that are being modeled, the exterior lights are the white lights that must be lit when the caboose is at the "front" of the train. So, if you're fond of working headlights on your locomotive, these lights are used in the same way.
Ed
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Post by gevohogger on Nov 5, 2019 7:43:25 GMT -8
Perhaps they could tool up a little animatronic man who could reach out and snag the orders at all the interlocking towers and train-order stations on everyone's layouts?
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Post by brakie on Nov 5, 2019 7:45:23 GMT -8
Personally I'd just like to see working markers and maybe a little light over the conductor's desk, but it is what it is. The bigger decision for me is whether I want sound given that little horn on the P&WV car. Would I ever seriously use it or is it just a novelty? Hard to say. Side note: have those Tsunami soundcar decoders increased in price since they first came out? I seem to remember a three-pack originally costing about what a single costs now. Erie had some cabooses assign to the Dayton branch outfitted with air horns. You see, the Dayton Branch train had to make a reverse out of the Marion yard to get on the Dayton branch..Trains coming off the Dayton branch made a reverse move into the Marion yard. Of course there was several street crossing that's why a air horn was used on the caboose.. In this case the air horn would need to be used.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Nov 5, 2019 8:32:08 GMT -8
I've long said there was a need for prototype-specific cabooses. I think they will do very well with these and future releases.
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Post by zephyrgray on Nov 5, 2019 11:26:17 GMT -8
I wonder if they are going to show the ATSF CE-11 waycar at Trainfest?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 12:12:05 GMT -8
I've long said there was a need for prototype-specific cabooses. I think they will do very well with these and future releases. it's a great announcement...road specific cabooses are an important gap to be filled in HO scale.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2019 12:26:40 GMT -8
I wonder if they are going to show the ATSF CE-11 waycar at Trainfest? Unlikely, as I posted yesterday they mentioned in the Facebook Live event that while they teased the SF car earlier this year it is not being announced at this time.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 5, 2019 12:58:24 GMT -8
The UP CA-8's (UP 25500-25599) were built June-December of 1964, and delivered in the scheme shown with the smaller lettering. The scheme with the larger lettering was introduced February of 1972. That scheme was superseded in 1983. The CA-8's were mainly retired 1986-1990. While the Athearn models of the UP and Q cabeese show white "lights" in the current pictures, the UP had red over green: and the Q had red: Ed
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Post by gevohogger on Nov 5, 2019 13:06:47 GMT -8
While the Athearn models of the UP and Q cabeese show white "lights" in the current pictures, the UP had red over green: Yeah I am kind of assuming (or hoping) those clear bulbs on the Athearn site are just pre-production quickies.
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fredo
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Post by fredo on Nov 5, 2019 14:40:11 GMT -8
The UP caboose on the rear of the train above is a CA-10 .
UP's last cupola caboose order. Only 50 were built. different windows and no ladders or roof walks.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 5, 2019 15:22:56 GMT -8
Any comments from Athearn on the UP cupola overlapping the sides of the caboose?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 5, 2019 15:27:50 GMT -8
I used the photo of the CA-10 because it illustrated the red/green lights that were sometimes used on UP cabeese. Including the CA-8.
International built the CA-8, CA-9 and CA-10. I expect we'll see some of the latter two, someday. And the CA-11, though I doubt Athearn will be doing those.
Ed
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Post by trainworm on Nov 5, 2019 18:01:32 GMT -8
Any comments from Athearn on the UP cupola overlapping the sides of the caboose? They posted this on their facebook page about the UP caboose... "There are some fit and finish elements that will be improved for production"
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Post by riogrande on Nov 6, 2019 5:21:01 GMT -8
Any comments from Athearn on the UP cupola overlapping the sides of the caboose? They posted this on their facebook page about the UP caboose... "There are some fit and finish elements that will be improved for production" I don't have a Facebook account so not something easily accessible. Hopefully Athearn will display photo's of the UP caboose with the improvements so buyers can have confidence they look right before plunking down money.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2019 11:06:35 GMT -8
Earlier in the thread I misspoke. The tooling is all new apparently from Athearn; but the project hails from Nick...if I am wrong again...please correct my statement.
No intention other than to help the project gain momentum...for future releases...
Again...thank you Athearn!!!
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Post by GP40P-2 on Nov 6, 2019 11:07:14 GMT -8
so buyers can have confidence they look right before plunking down money. Sadly, not a part of the pre-order world. Something that really needs to be addressed by the manufacturers pushing pre-orders. Or just do it the Tangent and Moloco way, "here it is, come and get it."
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Post by riogrande on Nov 6, 2019 12:40:37 GMT -8
Sadly, not a part of the pre-order world. Something that really needs to be addressed by the manufacturers pushing pre-orders. Or just do it the Tangent and Moloco way, "here it is, come and get it." With Tangent and Moloco, issues with models are rare. Athearn less so. Cabooses from this run are not on my must have list so I can wait and see. The pro of Tangent and Moloco is usually the models are available to order at announcement, or lately order now and ships withing a few weeks. Exactrail did this too recently. I think they get word that the models are "on the boat" which means they are almost sure to be shipping withing a predictable amount of time. Or maybe they get the "on the boat" notification, wait a couple weeks and then announce to the modeling community. That way the models are generally about 2 or so weeks away. The con to the available at announcement method is hobbyists may have committed their budget to items already expected. The pro to Athearn and maybe Walthers is you can watch the expected dates and be budgeting for the arrival. Having advanced notice helps me plan for items coming within the next year or a few months. Of course the con of Athearn/Walthers is having to wait and watch the dates get pushed off multiple times. Scotty does not work for those companies does he?
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Post by brakie on Nov 6, 2019 20:03:52 GMT -8
Guys, I apologize for this way off topic comment but,I am jealous that none of the cabooses or cabin cars had those "lazy-boy" copula seats like that U.P caboose in the photo shows.
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Post by grahamline on Nov 6, 2019 21:28:37 GMT -8
Brakie, if you ever get a chance, climb up in the cupola of a UP CA and take a ride. The Heber Creeper excursion in Utah uses one; there's also a CA that sometimes moves at the museum here in Portland, and I think they have one at the WP museum in Portola CA. Not only are the seats exceptional but the trucks are more like passenger car equipment than the freightish trucks on most cabooses. Unfortunately, it wasn't until the last series, the 50 CA-10s in 1975, that 15" cushioned draft gear showed up.
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Post by stottman on Nov 8, 2019 2:30:55 GMT -8
When Athearn offered the SP bay window cabooses, they offered WITH and WITHOUT lights.
I have a few of each. "Street price" for the lighted version was 49.95. I think the non lighted were $30, but none of the ones I Have still have a price tag. I think I only bought lighted versions because that was all that was left.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 8, 2019 3:07:50 GMT -8
When Athearn offered the SP bay window cabooses, they offered WITH and WITHOUT lights. I have a few of each. "Street price" for the lighted version was 49.95. I think the non lighted were $30, but none of the ones I Have still have a price tag. I think I only bought lighted versions because that was all that was left. Since then production costs in China have gone up quite a bit. Athearn may also need to amortize on tooling costs on these ICC cabooses since there are so many different versions. Still, I think the prices are quite fair. Road-specific models of this level of detail cost a lot of money to produce. Of course, buyers don't need so many either: a train with 3-5 MUed locomotives up front only needs 1 caboose :-)
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Post by riogrande on Nov 8, 2019 4:28:48 GMT -8
When Athearn offered the SP bay window cabooses, they offered WITH and WITHOUT lights. I have a few of each. "Street price" for the lighted version was 49.95. I think the non lighted were $30, but none of the ones I Have still have a price tag. I think I only bought lighted versions because that was all that was left. It was around 2012 when the first caboose, the C-50-7's were released with the twin bug-eye roof lights and I don't recall the street price at $49.95 at first for the lighted version. That would be 50% off of MRSP of $99.98! I bought a single without lights and I think it was, from my bad memory, $54.98 at MBK and I don't remember discount price for the DCC lighted version but it was probably $69.98. Now of course, the street prices did drop after a few years went by and a lot of the stock was still unsold. In fact Lombards had the lighted version as recently as a year ago IIRC (post 1980's versions with the orange step wells so too late for me) for $29.95, crazy cheap, and they were the last of the Mohicans. I'd guess it was probably around 2015/2016 the street prices were getting down to what you listed Stottman, and due to a lot of unsold stock. But the normal discount prices during the initial release years of 2012/2013 and maybe 2014 were about 30% off list. After that ... My train budget was much tighter when the Genesis SP bay windows were first released and I only bought a single C-50-7 non-lighted. It was about all I could afford at the time. During the next year or two as I learned more, I found that particular caboose only lasted in that configuration a short time (months) so I sold it and bought 2 or 3 or three more that I researched first. Eventually and with the deep discounted prices I added more being an SP fan because there was a wonderful variety offered by Athearn. As of a couple year ago I had settled on 8 Genesis SP bay windows spread across C-50-4 thu C-50-9, half were DCC lighted and half not - the cheapest was a nonlighted I found for $20 - Harry renumbered it before sending it to me. A few months ago I picked up another lighted one for close to half MRSP - prices have firmed up on the secondary somewhat. Anyway, a sort of apples to apples comparison, the Genesis SP/SSW/WP type Bay Window lighted version MSRP was/is 99.98. The new line of ICC Genesis lights only cabooses are $109.98 MRSP. Thats only a $10 increase over 8 years release dates (2012 to 2020). Not too bad really. YMMV on the lights + sound version. I "might" try one if they ever do D&RGW. Lots of people are complaining about the prices on other forums but I suspect either they model modern and don't really need these cabooses or are satisfied with old blue box foobies - so they are busy knocking down straw-men. One person said "But wow expensive. I have 15 cabeese on my road average price $6.03." Obviously these models based on real cabooses are not aimed at the "happy with generic" crowd, but they are getting their digs in anyway. Modus operandi.
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 8, 2019 4:37:05 GMT -8
Lots of people are complaining about the prices on other forums but I suspect either they model modern and don't really need these cabooses or are satisfied with old blue box foobies - so they are busy knocking down straw-men. One person said "But wow expensive. I have 15 cabeese on my road average price $6.03." Obviously these models based on real cabooses are not aimed at the "happy with generic" crowd, but they are getting their digs in anyway. Modus operandi. Folk just don't seem to get it. They bitch and moan about the prices on the latest top-of-the-line models when they wouldn't think of doing so about "everyday luxury items" -- think cars, consumer electronics, etc. There are good products available at all price points. Pick something that fits your budget.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 8, 2019 5:01:20 GMT -8
Folk just don't seem to get it. They bitch and moan about the prices on the latest top-of-the-line models when they wouldn't think of doing so about "everyday luxury items" -- think cars, consumer electronics, etc. There are good products available at all price points. Pick something that fits your budget. Basically! I mentioned in another forum people find ways to afford things they want (hobby or otherwise). Some guy shot back that people max out their credit cars to afford those things. I'm sure some do, but again, a straw man argument. People can find other ways to afford a few higher cost things otherwise without going deep in-debt - such as selling some things they don't need, or buying less of something else, or whatever. The people who come into the topic about the new ICC Genesis cabooses and complain about prices and brag about the $6 cabooses are obviously trolling, because they apparently don't need them or have any intention of buying them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2019 5:45:20 GMT -8
Personally for myself, I do not care what the price is. If I want it, I'll get it or find a way to get it. What I bitch about is the quality of what the manufacturers are offering. Many times it does not fit the price they are asking.
For example. Today I was looking for some MOLOCO 70 ton trucks. They are out of stock so I went to ebay and did a search on MOLOCO. I was surprised to see that now his RBL's are selling for about $60.00 per car. OK, if the market will support that so be it. I am a capitalist and I fully support the capitalist system. What caught my eye right away like a sore thumb though was the assembly of the brake cylinder hanging off the bottom of the car. It is supposed to be parallel with the underframe of the car. It was pointing down. Not just a little, but a lot! That is just plain shitty assembly and they are still asking $60.00 for the car. Now the customer could brake the cylinder off, clean it up and re-glue it, but why should we have to do that if we are paying for it to be done right in the first place.
This is not just an issue with MOLOCO, it is an issue with all the manufacturers. If you are going to ask the prices you are asking, then assemble the models to reflect that premium price. I think this is more the issue with us than the price. The shitty quality control employed by the manufacturers.
Brian
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Post by riogrande on Nov 8, 2019 6:14:50 GMT -8
I went to ebay and did a search on MOLOCO. I was surprised to see that now his RBL's are selling for about $60.00 per car. OK, if the market will support that so be it. I check Moloco on eBay frequently and just checked the RBLs. Most are priced at $56 plus shipping (which is the same as Nick Molo's website price) and some are $56 with free shipping which is a better deal. Some even less. Sure, sometimes prices are more than they should be - normal for eBay - scroll on by. Unless someone really really needs it, it will go unsold. If you are talking about a Moloco box car, Nick has always provided full customer satisfaction support, so if you had a badly assembled model, he would make it right. These are all made in China so some models slip through QAQC. Dave at Tangent, Nick at Moloco and Chris at Exactrail all have been great at addressing the occasional issue with a model they sell. Thats been my experience anyway.
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