ac4400
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by ac4400 on Nov 10, 2019 21:56:43 GMT -8
With more than two dozen cars, my autorack train is still increasing in length. I have TTGX and ETTX cars from Walthers, and I want to replace the couplers.
Which couplers do I have to buy: Kadee no. 58 (standard shank) or Kadee no. 156 (long shank) ?
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 11, 2019 0:11:33 GMT -8
It depends what you want your train to look like as it goes by. Do you want it to appear stretched out, or with the slack run in? (Not autoracks obviously, but they behave the same way) Personally, I chose the 'stretched' appearance, so I equip all of my autoracks with 156s. And while I was at it, I did the same with my centerbeam flatcars, as well as any other car where they were applicable. (mostly on hi-cube boxcars, but also a few bulkhead flats and one coil car.) One tip though: If the cars are going to be travelling through 22"-24" radius curves, using 156s as opposed to 58s will make the racks play much nicer with the rest of your rolling stock and locomotives.
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Post by sp8234tim on Nov 11, 2019 6:51:12 GMT -8
I agree & do what cemr5396 said & I also use a # 213 box from Kadee with a #156 coupler but I mount the box back so the coupler sit about where a 158 would be. I believe it helps the car think it is shorter than it really is. All of the above work very well for Autoracks. I have close to 40 racks, Bi & Tri's & about 10 of them have no weight in them at all. My trains are 16 cars. All cars have Exactrail trucks for all as they make the correct trucks for them. Trucks can be hard to get though but with Scaletrains new rack they also have the correct trucks for both. I think the truck have a lot to do with the tracking because of there flexible side frames. One end is very tight,just able to turn & the side frames still move up & down. Exactrail got the truck right. The #213 box fits in place of the factory box & I run a 2/56 screw through it all. Here is a link for what the box is. www.kadee.com/products-by-number-c-81/213-gearboxes-sleeves-ho-p-321.htmTim Hanesworth
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 11, 2019 10:52:06 GMT -8
The trucks under the upcoming Scale Trains autorack (and presumably under the Atlas version) are National swing motion 70-ton trucks with 28" wheels, which are appropriate post-1994 for low deck autoracks. There are many examples of older low deck autoracks fitted with the equivalent of ExactRail's Barber 70-ton lowboy truck, but I'd guess a majority of those autoracks today have the swing motion trucks. I've replaced all the trucks on my low deck autoracks with ExactRail's lowboy trucks or with Athearn's Impack trucks where I've installed the Walthers 28" metal wheelsets. They look much better with the correct wheelbase trucks underneath.
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ac4400
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by ac4400 on Nov 13, 2019 9:17:20 GMT -8
Thank you for the replies.
I'm convinced: I'm gonna buy Kadee no.156's for my autoracks.
Hopefully Atlas and or Scaletrains will sell separate and correct 70-ton trucks.
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 13, 2019 10:20:13 GMT -8
Thank you for the replies. I'm convinced: I'm gonna buy Kadee no.156's for my autoracks. Hopefully Atlas and or Scaletrains will sell separate and correct 70-ton trucks. If they don't, I have them through my Shapeways store. You supply Intermountain 28" wheelsets and assemble the trucks around the wheelsets.
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Post by sp8234tim on Nov 14, 2019 7:35:06 GMT -8
The way I interpret the adds for the new Scaletrains & Atlas is that. Atlas is only doing Bi-level rack with 33in wheels. Scaletrains is doing both Tri & Bi level racks in Rivet counter. Tris have 28in & bis have 33in Bi-level in Operator line with 33in wheels. I thought that the Multi-Max rack was changible from Tri-level to Bi-level, Is it? I am not an expert on these rack as they are to new for me but am interested in the trucks for them. I had used the Impact trucks on Tri-levels for years & then found Exactrails. I realize they are not the correct trucks but capture the look of a Tri-level rack (big car with small trucks) I love the Exactrail trucks because of the way they are built with a floating bolster. They do help with the running of tall cars & I keep 1 truck as tight as it can be because the side frames still move up & down. I think we need to remember that the air brakes don't work either on our trains.
Off to work, more later Tim Hanesworth (ps Ryan, nice doors for racks)
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ac4400
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by ac4400 on Nov 14, 2019 12:49:20 GMT -8
The Multi Max autoracks can be modified to Bi-level (TTGX) and Tri-level (CTTX). As far as I know, both versions have the same trucks with 28' wheels.
Funny to see that, now Atlas and Scaletrains announced the Multi Max, many autoracks from Walthers are being offered at E-bay.
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 14, 2019 13:39:40 GMT -8
Funny to see that, now Atlas and Scaletrains announced the Multi Max, many autoracks from Walthers are being offered at E-bay.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2019 14:14:24 GMT -8
The Multi Max autoracks can be modified to Bi-level (TTGX) and Tri-level (CTTX). As far as I know, both versions have the same trucks with 28' wheels. Funny to see that, now Atlas and Scaletrains announced the Multi Max, many autoracks from Walthers are being offered at E-bay. The Multi Max may over lap the Walthers in time frame so why would people dump a different rack for a more modern one? I sold most of my Walthers racks because I back dated and most the my Walthers, maybe all are late 1980's and later.
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 14, 2019 18:33:06 GMT -8
The Multi Max may over lap the Walthers in time frame so why would people dump a different rack for a more modern one? I sold most of my Walthers racks because I back dated and most the my Walthers, maybe all are late 1980's and later. The Walthers racks still run today in large numbers, as do the MultiMaxes (obviously). You can't model a prototypical autorack train without them. I would bet that a lot of the people that are dumping the Walthers cars are doing so because they want the 'new, shiny, thing' and probably aren't too concerned about having a mix of prototypes in their rack train. I imagine a similar phenomenon occurred when the Intermountain rack cars came out.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2019 18:43:03 GMT -8
Shiny!
Sounds about right.
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 15, 2019 12:29:31 GMT -8
The Walthers trilevel represents a prototype that continues to abound on the rails today. Many of them have been converted to bilevels owing to the rising popularity of SUVs and trucks over sedans and compact cars. Often the only evidence of the conversion is the change in reporting mark from ETTX and TTGX and the replacement of the end doors with one pair of deck ends visible for a bilevel versus two pair of deck ends for a trilevel.
While I appreciate, understand and welcome the release of the MultiMax from Atlas and Scale Trains, I would like to see a model of an autorack with one of the rebuilt low deck flats where the side sills were raised revealing more of the flatcar's underframe and eliminating the need for the rack itself to narrow where the rack mounts to the flat. These wide deck conversions are massively popular and have been around since the 70s. They continue to be seen today as both bilevels and trilevels. A train of autoracks from the 70s to today is truly incomplete without them.
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ac4400
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by ac4400 on Nov 16, 2019 4:20:36 GMT -8
I would like to see a model of an autorack with one of the rebuilt low deck flats where the side sills were raised revealing more of the flatcar's underframe and eliminating the need for the rack itself to narrow where the rack mounts to the flat. These wide deck conversions are massively popular and have been around since the 70s. They continue to be seen today as both bilevels and trilevels. A train of autoracks from the 70s to today is truly incomplete without them. . Who is the manufacturer of these cars and racks: NSC, Thrall, Gunderson?
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 16, 2019 9:35:16 GMT -8
I would like to see a model of an autorack with one of the rebuilt low deck flats where the side sills were raised revealing more of the flatcar's underframe and eliminating the need for the rack itself to narrow where the rack mounts to the flat. These wide deck conversions are massively popular and have been around since the 70s. They continue to be seen today as both bilevels and trilevels. A train of autoracks from the 70s to today is truly incomplete without them. . Who is the manufacturer of these cars and racks: NSC, Thrall, Gunderson? I don't have The TTX Story books yet, but I think a comprehensive listing might be found there. The information I have indicates PS and ACF low deck flats were converted by Trailer Train to "wide body" flats. The racks would have been Whitehead & Kales (later Thrall) or Portec (also later Thrall). Here's a photo of one of these converted flats: frisco.org/mainline/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Autorack-803169-at-Edmonton-Alberta-in-May-1981.jpgYou can see the end sill is much lower than the raised side sills. Also, note the rack is full width and does not taper into the top of the flatcar sides since the flatcar has been rebuilt to full width. Custom Rail made models of these cars, but that's like saying Front Range made models of the Front Runner or the Centerbeam lumber car. If you've built any of them you know what I mean.
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Post by csx3305 on Nov 16, 2019 14:12:01 GMT -8
It’s about time the market stabilized on the walthers trilevels, the last time I was trying to pick up a few, several of the roadnames were going for 70-100 dollars each on the ‘bay.
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Post by cemr5396 on Nov 16, 2019 16:36:07 GMT -8
I would like to see a model of an autorack with one of the rebuilt low deck flats where the side sills were raised revealing more of the flatcar's underframe and eliminating the need for the rack itself to narrow where the rack mounts to the flat. These wide deck conversions are massively popular and have been around since the 70s. They continue to be seen today as both bilevels and trilevels. A train of autoracks from the 70s to today is truly incomplete without them. I wonder if those so-called 'wide body' racks are one of those things that is very common, yet at the same time, completely un-remarkable. Looking at the image you showed of one of those cars I don't recall ever seeing one, but if they are really that common odds are I probably have.
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 16, 2019 17:06:16 GMT -8
I would like to see a model of an autorack with one of the rebuilt low deck flats where the side sills were raised revealing more of the flatcar's underframe and eliminating the need for the rack itself to narrow where the rack mounts to the flat. These wide deck conversions are massively popular and have been around since the 70s. They continue to be seen today as both bilevels and trilevels. A train of autoracks from the 70s to today is truly incomplete without them. I wonder if those so-called 'wide body' racks are one of those things that is very common, yet at the same time, completely un-remarkable. Looking at the image you showed of one of those cars I don't recall ever seeing one, but if they are really that common odds are I probably have. That's an excellent way to describe them. They are everywhere but until you start looking you'd probably never notice them. The variety within the subgroup that is trilevels is really quite amazing. And as these older cars are converted to bilevels that same variety shows up in that group.
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Post by csx3305 on Nov 16, 2019 23:27:16 GMT -8
Are the “wide body” racks being discussed the ones constructed on “bowl deck” flats? I have made several of these out of Walthers trilevels, but it requires a lot of carving.
Cross section of the flat car would be......\___|=|___/
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Post by fr8kar on Nov 17, 2019 8:14:54 GMT -8
Are the “wide body” racks being discussed the ones constructed on “bowl deck” flats? I have made several of these out of Walthers trilevels, but it requires a lot of carving. Cross section of the flat car would be......\___|=|___/ Yes. I've imagined that would be one way to do it, but so far I haven't tried. I'd like to see your results if you don't mind sharing.
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ac4400
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by ac4400 on Nov 18, 2019 16:19:42 GMT -8
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ac4400
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by ac4400 on Jan 4, 2020 0:46:37 GMT -8
Exchanging al my Kadee 58's for 156's would be very costly. I found a cheap and easy solution:
From the (black) swing couplerpocket I've trimmed of the half of the pin wich holds the Kadee coupler. Now de Kadee can shift back and forwards in the coupler pocket. Because of this, the Kadee 58 looks like a coupler with a long shaft.
Neat side-effect, is that there now a real slack motion effect.
I've read that a autorack car has 3 feet of slack because of the couplers, so a 100 car autorack train has 300 feet of slack.
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Post by sp8234tim on Jan 5, 2020 11:15:59 GMT -8
Exchanging al my Kadee 58's for 156's would be very costly. I found a cheap and easy solution: From the (black) swing couplerpocket I've trimmed of the half of the pin wich holds the Kadee coupler. Now de Kadee can shift back and forwards in the coupler pocket. Because of this, the Kadee 58 looks like a coupler with a long shaft. Neat side-effect, is that there now a real slack motion effect. I've read that a autorack car has 3 feet of slack because of the couplers, so a 100 car autorack train has 300 feet of slack. Yes but be careful because the prototype has springs that resist the force of the motion for the coupler, like a shock absorber for a auto. It is not jerk, it is a controlled motion as the autos can & do get damaged from this. The motion in model form doesn't scale down very well & will cause derailments from the slack. It does look cool but not worth the hassle when running a long train. been there & done this, mounted a Kadee #156 back from where it mounts normally with the knuckle half way backfrom where it should be. I believe it makes the cars think its shorter. It thinks its a 75 foot car instead of 89 foot with the coupler movement. You get what you pay for also. Tim Hanesworth
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jan 5, 2020 12:15:27 GMT -8
Exchanging al my Kadee 58's for 156's would be very costly. You can recoup most of that cost by re-using the 58's. It'll then cost you 15 cents a car. Doing a couple of cars at a time will keep the initial capital investment down. Ed
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