bis54
New Member
Posts: 32 
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Post by bis54 on Nov 12, 2019 12:55:10 GMT -8
I purchased 2 of the PRR P5As from Broadway ltd when they came out. I took them to the club I belong to for some brake in. I ran them around the layout (DCC Digitrax) 4 times, at 1/4 speed, 1/2 speed, 3/4 speed and full speed, then I put them on the front of an ore train. I got almost another loop around the layout when it shut down and a short alarm came on. One loco was hot, took off the shell and one end of the decoder was shiny black while the rest was a flat black. I returned the loco to Broadway. It came back yesterday with a note from Broadway that they replaced a blown decoder. I took both locos back to the club and started the same procedure. About a half loop around the layout with the loaded train the other loco gave out. Flashing headlight, wouldn't run any more. But the layout didn't shut down this time. Both locos seemed to run at the same speed before I consisted them, and both times it was the lead loco pulling the train that shorted out.
I'll take them back to the club and ask (hi Paul) the DCC expert what he thinks.
Is anyone else having any problems with their P5A?
Chris
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Post by jonklein611 on Nov 12, 2019 13:35:43 GMT -8
Just curious, how many cars are you running behind it and what voltage are you running the DCC boosters at?
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bis54
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by bis54 on Nov 12, 2019 15:27:22 GMT -8
I was pulling 24 loaded ore cars plus a caboose on level track. Normal operations at the club involves a 32 car ore train being pulled up a grade, about 2% if I remember correct. So I'm not doing anything that isn't considered normal at the club. But I have not measured the drawbar pull on them. I don't know the voltage on the boosters.
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Post by westerntrains on Nov 12, 2019 15:47:16 GMT -8
I had similar problems with my I1 and GS-4 models. sent them back many times. Finally had the decoders replaced with quite digitrax decoders. Never had a problem afterwards. The GS-4 was junk.
BLI makes nice looking models but their electronics are junk. This has been my experence.
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Post by jonklein611 on Nov 13, 2019 5:46:37 GMT -8
Might want to run the "penny" short test that Digitrax talks about in their manual and verify the DCC system / boosters are tripping correctly on a short. There's also a potential that the stall amperage of the motor is higher than the rating on their decoder.
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Post by sd80mac on Nov 13, 2019 6:30:48 GMT -8
BLI's electronics are garbage and have been ever since they switched from QSI and starting doing their own sound decoders in house. The quality of the sound is horrible and they have all kinds of electrical issues. A good friend of mine has sent his Brass Hybrid C&O Greenbriar back 3 times for the decoder frying within 15 minutes of running. Mine is still in its box and I likely will not even attempt to run it before ripping the BLI junk out and replacing it with ESU or TCS.
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Post by gmpullman on Nov 13, 2019 18:18:02 GMT -8
Is anyone else having any problems with their P5A? Chris I bought three of the little buggers. My first hint of trouble was during the programming sequence where the P3 brain seemed to get easily scrambled. Using Decoder Pro and a Sprogg-II it took several attempts to enter a four-digit address. I finally had to open the shell and press the "hard reset" button on the decoder. After that the programming was accepted OK. On another unit it exhibited the same issues you had. Smooth operation for about the first five minutes then sporadic stopping, gradually getting worse. Then I began to get the short circuit (PSX breakers on Digitrax boosters). I contacted BLI and they gave me the option of returning for repair (eleven-week wait) or, when available, they would send me a decoder AND a motor as they admitted that some of their motors were causing decoder failures. A third unit, the early freight version, I noticed the roof was becoming hot and the speed of the engine was double what the two passenger units were. Even after lowering top speed using CVs the engine would still be too fast. After several CV resets this engine "seems" to be OK and the heat has no longer been a problem. When time permits I'll open it up and check the decoder for overheating evidence. I'll also disconnect the motor and check current draw. The replacement motor and decoder arrived for the one I reported to BLI after about a six-week wait (slow boat). I did check the current draw of the original motor. About 750 mA at six volts. I installed the new motor and now the current was closer to 325 mA at six volts. Plugged in the new decoder (added a little more weight as long as I had the cab off) and things seem to be running OK. Presently I'm running all three together essentially as a break-in. I'm still going to monitor them closely. I agree that BLI really needs to step up their QC on electrical issues. Six out of twelve of my recent P-3 decoders have had to be replaced. I hesitate to commit on the streamlined K4 when it comes down the pike.  PRR_under-wire_2k by Edmund, on Flickr Good Luck, Ed |
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Post by jonklein611 on Nov 14, 2019 6:11:30 GMT -8
I wonder if this is similar to the motor / decoder issue that Rapido was having on a batch of locomotives.
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Post by craigz on Nov 14, 2019 7:06:17 GMT -8
I have three of the P5As. When I programmed the first one, or tried to, it was a bit of a struggle. I removed the shell and removed the decoder. I fitted a Decoder Buddy board, (which fits perfectly into the existing screw holes and alignment pins by the way...), a 21 pin Loksound V4 decoder and reused the BLI lights. To get the sound file, I pulled a European V4 electric locomotive file and added to it an American single chime honker horn and a bell. The model now runs properly and sounds great. When I do the other two models I'll have to use V5 decoders as I've finally burned thru my stash of V4s. I'll just import the V4 sound into the V5 and off we go.
I don't hesitate to gut BLI electronics. As others have noted BLI has good mechanisms that are handicapped by their sketchy electronics.
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Post by jonklein611 on Nov 14, 2019 7:26:59 GMT -8
I have three of the P5As. When I programmed the first one, or tried to, it was a bit of a struggle. I removed the shell and removed the decoder. I fitted a Decoder Buddy board, (which fits perfectly into the existing screw holes and alignment pins by the way...), a 21 pin Loksound V4 decoder and reused the BLI lights. To get the sound file, I pulled a European V4 electric locomotive file and added to it an American single chime honker horn and a bell. The model now runs properly and sounds great. When I do the other two models I'll have to use V5 decoders as I've finally burned thru my stash of V4s. I'll just import the V4 sound into the V5 and off we go. I don't hesitate to gut BLI electronics. As others have noted BLI has good mechanisms that are handicapped by their sketchy electronics. My BLI J Class might be up for the operating table soon. Good to know about decoder buddy. Thanks for the info! |
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Post by craigz on Nov 14, 2019 10:02:47 GMT -8
I have three of the P5As. When I programmed the first one, or tried to, it was a bit of a struggle. I removed the shell and removed the decoder. I fitted a Decoder Buddy board, (which fits perfectly into the existing screw holes and alignment pins by the way...), a 21 pin Loksound V4 decoder and reused the BLI lights. To get the sound file, I pulled a European V4 electric locomotive file and added to it an American single chime honker horn and a bell. The model now runs properly and sounds great. When I do the other two models I'll have to use V5 decoders as I've finally burned thru my stash of V4s. I'll just import the V4 sound into the V5 and off we go. I don't hesitate to gut BLI electronics. As others have noted BLI has good mechanisms that are handicapped by their sketchy electronics. My BLI J Class might be up for the operating table soon. Good to know about decoder buddy. Thanks for the info! I've done a number of the BLI steam engines. It's 2/3s detective work, 1/3 installation. The detective work is in chasing down what each wire in the tender harness actually does. In every case the outer pair are track power; the next pair from either end are motor. The rest seem to vary from model to model...there was one that I simply couldn't devine what it did. There's often a small circuit board atop the worm gear housing that has a reed switch; a magnet in the flywheel operates the reed switch and that's the chuff timer...runs thru a pair of wire from the decoder thru the reed switch and back to the decoder. Using your multimeter to determine the terminus of that loop and there's a pair of wires for lighting. The recent models have 8 or 9 pin harnesses; plenty to take care of most locomotive lighting needs. Oh, and I ditch the smoke unit... |
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Post by carrman on Nov 14, 2019 10:14:20 GMT -8
My BLI J Class might be up for the operating table soon. Good to know about decoder buddy. Thanks for the info! I've done a number of the BLI steam engines. It's 2/3s detective work, 1/3 installation. The detective work is in chasing down what each wire in the tender harness actually does. In every case the outer pair are track power; the next pair from either end are motor. The rest seem to vary from model to model...there was one that I simply couldn't devine what it did. There's often a small circuit board atop the worm gear housing that has a reed switch; a magnet in the flywheel operates the reed switch and that's the chuff timer...runs thru a pair of wire from the decoder thru the reed switch and back to the decoder. Using your multimeter to determine the terminus of that loop and there's a pair of wires for lighting. The recent models have 8 or 9 pin harnesses; plenty to take care of most locomotive lighting needs. Oh, and I ditch the smoke unit... But the smoke unit is so life like! |
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 16, 2019 19:14:01 GMT -8
I passed on a BLI J today for $80, seller said it wouldn't go, had a bad gear in it. I presume parts are unobtanium.
He actually had two, the other one had no motor and other issues and was cheaper. No idea what was going on there, maybe between the two you'd have had one.
But I am aware of at least two of the brass hybrid C&O streamline Hudson that sit in pieces in a box because of a bad main gear and no replacements. I wonder if you could 3D print them using the original as a starting point.
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Post by jonklein611 on Nov 16, 2019 19:30:18 GMT -8
I've got a Paragon 2 and a Paragon 3 J, both run much better than my Bachmann J's (which are garbage).
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Post by selector on Nov 16, 2019 20:45:10 GMT -8
A quick look at the BLI site 'refurbished' page will often give a good approximation of which of their last few offers have become problem children. A year back, and still somewhat evident today, they had/have scads of 2-8-2 Mikados at about 40% off, refurbished. There are at least eight of the P5 models showing as of tonight, and several Challengers.
I can't tell you how many people returned or simply threw out their Bachmann Spectrum J1 4-8-4's, but I was one of them.
MTH had a bad batch of their Big boy steamers maybe six years ago or more. Terrible, lots of complaints on the forums.
Rapido, perhaps the gold standard right now if not Scale Trains, has just mailed out their Canadian RS-18, and there are some pretty significant QA problems being discussed all over the forums. It was their turn?
I will admit to being a fanboy for BLI. I have several Paragon and Paragon2 steamers, plus three hybrid brass. I had to return only one for a defect, and that was their Hybrid Q2 4-4-6-4. It's headlight wouldn't work. Took three months to get it back, but it was right.
I have had excellent service from them when I needed it, but last time was maybe eight years ago due to partially completed layout and then a move, and having to start a new layout. Also, I don't have experience with their post-Rolling Thunder and Paragon3 offerings, so I can't comment. But, I'd like to think they're sitting up and taking notice that they have some QA things to sort out if they want to keep customers happy and forumites saying good things.
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cmarchan
New Member
Amtrak SDP40Fs - we GOT them!
Posts: 18
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Post by cmarchan on Nov 18, 2019 11:48:11 GMT -8
Folks,
I have a thread on the RF-16s here. I can tell you after testing, its the motors; they are cheap knockoffs of the Mabuchi types and I've personally have tested 3 bad ones!
There are too many posts on recent BLI units and they need to address this. The literature in the box did not say " re-motoring required for non-shelf queen!"
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Post by valenciajim on Nov 18, 2019 22:52:23 GMT -8
Interesting that there are two threads going about BLI quality control. I have had several problems over the years and swore off buying any more of their products. Then when the cryogenic tank cars came out, I bought six of them. When they were delivered, several of the trucks were missing wheels. BLI did a great job of replacing them (especially considering that there was a hurricane approaching their facility). But the wheels never fit properly in the trucks and I am sure that is why the fell out.
A few months later, I went to my LHS and noticed they had several of the same cars on sale and wheels were missing from the cars in the store. The owner said that he had customers complain about missing wheels.
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Post by talltim on Nov 19, 2019 6:32:43 GMT -8
Missing wheels is a lot more obvious than a mechanism that works for a bit then fails. You'd really like to think that they'd notice that!
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Post by westerntrains on Nov 19, 2019 11:48:50 GMT -8
Missing wheels is a lot more obvious than a mechanism that works for a bit then fails. You'd really like to think that they'd notice that! BLI is totaly unresponsive to any comments or suggestion about the quality of their models. They keeping making trash electronics and motors and we keep buying them. We then remotor them, put in new decoders and complain about the quality or really, lack of it. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 19, 2019 13:02:35 GMT -8
Speak for yourself, but this particular we won't be buying any more. We -- OK, I -- have had 3: an SD40-2 which looked awful, an SW7 which looked marginally better, and an AC6000 decorated for BHP Biliton because I hail from Western Australia. That was a Blue Line model and particularly difficult to program. All have now been sold.
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Post by craigz on Nov 20, 2019 6:38:18 GMT -8
Missing wheels is a lot more obvious than a mechanism that works for a bit then fails. You'd really like to think that they'd notice that! BLI is totaly unresponsive to any comments or suggestion about the quality of their models. They keeping making trash electronics and motors and we keep buying them. We then remotor them, put in new decoders and complain about the quality or really, lack of it. All true. But when they're the only reasonable game in town for some of their prototypes...your alternative for things like the P5A is older brass or wait for snowballs fights in hell when somebody else does the model  |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 20, 2019 7:49:20 GMT -8
Who else does RSD15's in plastic?
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Post by TBird1958 on Nov 20, 2019 9:57:43 GMT -8
After reading this, and the other thread I'll just cut to the chase and re motor my RSD15s when I tear them down to paint.
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Post by craigz on Nov 20, 2019 10:59:52 GMT -8
After reading this, and the other thread I'll just cut to the chase and re motor my RSD15s when I tear them down to paint. I've found the RSD15 mechanisms to be good runners...you might consider just redoing the electronics.... |
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Post by keystonefarm on Nov 26, 2019 11:46:20 GMT -8
You can add me to the list of dead P-5's I picked three of the units. They have about 1 hour running time when the 4722 stopped dead in its tracks in a consist with the other two with a dead short in the booster district. I opened up the loco found nothing burnt or out of sorts. Called BLI today and a new motor and decoder will be one it's way to me. I'll test the other two units to see if they will also fail. We will see what happens. --- Ken
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 26, 2019 17:59:24 GMT -8
The only other plastic one is the Gilbert one.
Some of them even have a ringing bell -
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 26, 2019 20:54:53 GMT -8
Mine does! And lit numberboards, too!
Ed
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Post by keystonefarm on Dec 21, 2019 23:04:31 GMT -8
You can add me to the list of dead P-5's I picked three of the units. They have about 1 hour running time when the 4722 stopped dead in its tracks in a consist with the other two with a dead short in the booster district. I opened up the loco found nothing burnt or out of sorts. Called BLI today and a new motor and decoder will be one it's way to me. I'll test the other two units to see if they will also fail. We will see what happens. --- Ken Well my replacement motor and decoder showed up today in the mail. BLI told me to replace only the motor first to see what the problem is. I did so only took about 10 minutes. Biggest job was soldering the wire leads back on the new motor. After that I tried the unit on my NCE power cab. Still a dead short. So I next replaced the decoder board. The P-5 has a plug in mini decoder that plugs into a mother board. BLI had sent me a new mother board but not a new plug in mini. Two screws and a few wire plugs later and I tried it again. This time success loco runs and sounds fine. So it looks like in my case it was a bad mother board. I'll send it back to them as requested. Great parts service and friendly people to deal with. I'll run the three I have for a few hours to see if I have any more failures. Three of them handle my 70 car ore trains with no issues . Here's hoping they do a modified version next or even a E-44 would be nice !!!! --------- Ken McCorry |
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Post by crazyivan on Dec 23, 2019 6:30:18 GMT -8
I passed on a BLI J today for $80, seller said it wouldn't go, had a bad gear in it. I presume parts are unobtanium. I ran across a similar deal with a first gen BLI J last year, and after some negotiation I took the shot. If the split gear is the one on the drive axle, reach out to Broadway. I removed the driver, shipped it to them, and for $20 they replaced the split gear. It’s now one of my most reliable steamers. I may replace the outdated sound with a higher fidelity controller someday, but I’m happy having the engine pull my N&W passenger set right now. They can’t fix everything, unfortunately, but by and large I’ve had good experiences with broadway’s parts department. |
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Post by markfj on Dec 23, 2019 7:30:41 GMT -8
What are you all using as replacement motors? There is a used I1sa currently up for action on eBay that has electronic issues. The seller thinks it might be the motherboard, but isn’t sure. Before I would consider taking on another project, I want to make sure I can source a decent motor. I’m assuming I would have no choice but to get a replacement board from BLI. Do the motors damage the board or vice versa?
I really want one of these locomotives, but I’ve never repaired a modern (with electronics & sound) steam locomotive.
Thanks, Mark J.
Reading, PA
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