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Post by The Ferro Kid on Aug 16, 2022 17:53:53 GMT -8
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Post by champagnetrail on Aug 16, 2022 18:46:48 GMT -8
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Post by Baikal on Aug 16, 2022 18:59:17 GMT -8
Fake scheme.
I've never seen those models, but two-tone gray and red looks great on prototype rolling stock: |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 16, 2022 19:35:41 GMT -8
That is an Athearn car, but I doubt Athearn ever sold it under their name.
Nope. Burlington never did that. But it is a not unreasonable extrapolation from the Chinese Red scheme that the Q adopted.
Ed
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Post by gevohogger on Aug 17, 2022 7:12:47 GMT -8
Maybe it's a sneak peek at their next "Legendary Liveries" offering?
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 17, 2022 7:57:58 GMT -8
Athearn, per my Krause guide sold as kit and RTR with runs in 1957 and 1968. There is a matching F7 A & B. They're fairly rare, this guide rates rarity on a 1-4 scale and this is a 4.
Note this book isn't perfect, I've run into a few pieces not in it at all.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Aug 17, 2022 8:46:51 GMT -8
Athearn, per my Krause guide sold as kit and RTR with runs in 1957 and 1968. There is a matching F7 A & B. They're fairly rare, this guide rates rarity on a 1-4 scale and this is a 4. Note this book isn't perfect, I've run into a few pieces not in it at all. VERY INTERESTING! Thanks! So it actually has been documented. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 17, 2022 9:20:14 GMT -8
They also did a set of New Haven streamline cars in black with orange window band and white letter band, to match the black F7 A-B.
Where these paint schemes came from or why they were made, I'd have to get out the ouija board and ask Irv I think. They're not related to any production for any other company to sell.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Aug 17, 2022 11:49:57 GMT -8
I have a set of those New Haven cars.
Color photos were fewer and less available in the 50s and 60s. Which depending on b&w photo lighting, may have tricked them into thinking a steel color was black.
I've gotta have that reference book! Used to see it in the original Caboose Hob's in Denver but never got around to buying it. Then forgot about it. Have a copy on order from evilBay.
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 17, 2022 13:57:31 GMT -8
I had one, lost it, bought another one on eBay too - right from one of the authors, so it ended up being a signed copy. I use it a lot, it's good for the plastic era stuff, anything much before 1957 you need the Greenberg guide for.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 17, 2022 14:36:57 GMT -8
Athearn, per my Krause guide sold as kit and RTR with runs in 1957 and 1968. There is a matching F7 A & B. They're fairly rare, this guide rates rarity on a 1-4 scale and this is a 4. Note this book isn't perfect, I've run into a few pieces not in it at all. The Athearn catalog for 1957 lists Burlington lightweight cars with part numbers 504 for coach, 514 for baggage, 524 for dome, and 534 for obs. Kits. No RTR shown. Here is a link to a listing for a 534 obs: i.pinimg.com/originals/30/4a/f1/304af1df61ca5894bddd7e2211890e00.jpgNote that the model is an all silver car, and does not match the subject model. Athearn also listed Burlington F's in A and B in 1957. Whether they were matching (silver) or off-white (correct) I can't find out. Ed |
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Post by onequiknova on Aug 17, 2022 17:47:02 GMT -8
Athearn, per my Krause guide sold as kit and RTR with runs in 1957 and 1968. There is a matching F7 A & B. They're fairly rare, this guide rates rarity on a 1-4 scale and this is a 4. Note this book isn't perfect, I've run into a few pieces not in it at all. The Athearn catalog for 1957 lists Burlington lightweight cars with part numbers 504 for coach, 514 for baggage, 524 for dome, and 534 for obs. Kits. No RTR shown. Here is a link to a listing for a 534 obs: i.pinimg.com/originals/30/4a/f1/304af1df61ca5894bddd7e2211890e00.jpgNote that the model is an all silver car, and does not match the subject model. Athearn also listed Burlington F's in A and B in 1957. Whether they were matching (silver) or off-white (correct) I can't find out. Ed I don't think Athearn did a correct off-white F unit until they did them in the Genesis line. The old Blue Box F was painted in the Q's freight scheme with the off white replaced with silver. The passenger scheme would have made more sense even though the only F's to ever where it were chicken wire F3's. Then there was the foobie Northern Pacific passenger scheme. |
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Aug 17, 2022 18:57:58 GMT -8
"Then there was the foobie Northern Pacific passenger scheme."
The green passenger cars, with some thin yellow and red stripes, are foodies?
My brother, who models B&O, and I have never been able to find justification for the scheme Athearn has on those cars either.
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Post by onequiknova on Aug 17, 2022 19:09:28 GMT -8
"Then there was the foobie Northern Pacific passenger scheme." The green passenger cars, with some thin yellow and red stripes, are foodies? My brother, who models B&O, and I have never been able to find justification for the scheme Athearn has on those cars either. I'm no NP expert, but I believe that green and yellow scheme is based off of their black and yellow freight scheme. As far as I know, it never existed. Strange choice since they had two good looking legitimate schemes to choose from. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 17, 2022 19:41:40 GMT -8
Then there was the foobie Northern Pacific passenger scheme. What I do know is that Athearn did the NP freight scheme with dark green substituting for the correct black. I think this is correctly called a "mistake", rather than a "foobie". Is there a different scheme you are talking about? As far as I know, Athearn never did a foobie NP passenger scheme. Note that I/we are talking about the Athearn F's, here. Ed |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 17, 2022 19:47:45 GMT -8
The green passenger cars, with some thin yellow and red stripes, are foodies? Foodies? Did we miss dinner? Anyway. Yup. No NP car was ever painted like that. They did look kinda nice, though. Ed |
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 18, 2022 4:08:42 GMT -8
Athearn didn't do RTR cars in 1957. The train set market took off in the early 1960s and Athearn added RTR stuff then. There are yellow window boxes and very light blue window boxes. I even ran across a kit - marked as kit on the end - sold in the later blue window box meant for RTR stuff.
There's lots of things you're not going to ever find in an Athearn catalog. Some years ago in Indianapolis a shop had a whole case of Athearn RTR 3-dome tank cars on consignment - all in the longer box, with an insert, but no lid, white with green domes, Union Carbide logo and "Chemicals and Coatings" lettering. They're some one off custom run, they aren't in any catalog or even either of the guides.
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Post by fmilhaupt on Aug 18, 2022 4:45:57 GMT -8
I remember a set of the black and orange streamlined New Haven Athearn cars coming through the shop in the mid-1980s. About half our business was in used equipment.
The boss (the late Stan Silverman) was a Northern Pacific fan, and he'd collected quite a train of the foobie Athearn streamlined Northern Pacific cars pulled by a pair of equally-foobie AHM E8s. I thought the cars looked sharp, but even as a teenager I knew that they were way out there, compared to what the NP actually ran. His S gauge American Flyer NP streamliner set looked more convincing with its paint based on an actual NP paint scheme, even with its PAs up front.
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 18, 2022 5:34:06 GMT -8
The Flyer set was also done in HO, with Varney produced F3s for power. 1957-62. Maybe Athearn wanted theirs to be different?
What's more curious is I think Penn Line offered NP locos in the passenger scheme that used Athearn shells. They even had a paper decal on the grilles. I looked it up and HO Seeker has them in 1955 and 1956 catalogs. The matching passenger cars sourced from Fleischmann no less.
Tons and tons of crazy things got made in that era.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Aug 18, 2022 13:32:34 GMT -8
Tons and tons of crazy things got made in that era. I think some of the craziness was to give train sets eye appeal. Every hobby shop I've ever regularly patronized over the decades, used to crowd its shelves with trainsets come September and October. I'd think, "You're NEVER gonna sell all these!" But they all did, and usually long before Christmas. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 18, 2022 14:50:41 GMT -8
Train sets were so hot everyone wanted in on it. Even if they didn't have product to put in them. Hence why you see one brand selling things made by another brand. Athearn might be the only one who never did that, unless you count their version of the short lived rectifier locomotive.
... well, can't even say that if you count the Horizon Hobby era.
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Aug 18, 2022 16:37:26 GMT -8
I felt bad because the trainsets, except Athearn, were just the worst kind of junque being foisted on the innocent. IIRC, Athearn took a break from them. Seems like I remember everybody knowledgeable being glad when they came back. Even THAT could be a loooong time ago. Like maybe 1990s?
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Post by onequiknova on Aug 18, 2022 16:57:35 GMT -8
Then there was the foobie Northern Pacific passenger scheme. What I do know is that Athearn did the NP freight scheme with dark green substituting for the correct black. I think this is correctly called a "mistake", rather than a "foobie". Is there a different scheme you are talking about? As far as I know, Athearn never did a foobie NP passenger scheme. Note that I/we are talking about the Athearn F's, here. Ed The freight scheme done in green is what I was referring to Ed. They made matching passenger cars to go with those green and yellow F's. AFAIK, their passenger equipment was never painted in that scheme no matter the color. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 18, 2022 17:25:54 GMT -8
Yup.
Ed
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Post by bn7023 on Aug 19, 2022 1:17:51 GMT -8
This image is page 87-88 of the "Standard Guide to Athearn Model Trains" in 1998, click to enlarge.  |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 19, 2022 6:32:43 GMT -8
The Burlington adopted the red scheme for their locomotives in 1958. The first locomotives delivered in the new scheme showed in April-June of 1959 (SD9's and SD24's).
It's possible that Burlington was considering a matching paint scheme for some or all of their passenger cars, and actually had thoughts of using the scheme showed on the subject car.
Or.
It's possible that Athearn did a WAG, and produced the new scheme to go with the actual new Q paint scheme. It was around that same time when Athearn produced an inaccurate DD35A, and called an SW7 an SW1500, both pretty much in good faith.
But Burlington apparently never did apply any red (or grey) paint to a passenger car. E's, yes. Freight cars, hell yes. Locomotives, yup.
But how was Irv to know that?
I would assume Athearn came out with this passenger paint scheme very close to when Burlington went red, maybe around 1960 or so. The puzzler might be when they gave up on it, which I would suppose they would when they realized "it ain't happening".
Ed
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 19, 2022 10:09:15 GMT -8
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 19, 2022 11:18:34 GMT -8
Oh, my.
and
Wow.
But not a "good" wow.
Ed
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Post by Baikal on Aug 19, 2022 11:22:09 GMT -8
Oh, my. and Wow. But not a "good" wow. Ed
CB&Q meets NH via RZD?
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Aug 20, 2022 0:23:47 GMT -8
EEE-OUCH! Never saw one of those, either. |
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