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Post by nstophat on Oct 22, 2022 15:22:06 GMT -8
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Oct 22, 2022 17:33:24 GMT -8
Great photos. Even without the overall views, I think it still gives a good feel for the car and its detail.
I can appreciate Blaine's work; I think his research and presentation of these models is great. Arrowhead can design good models, but assembly is lacking. That first photo you linked shows a ton of glue around the grab irons and on the brake reservoir plumbing, and glue bubbling or melted plastic on the right side of the brake wheel housing. There are some crooked parts, and the roof walkway is peeling up on the top right corner of the image.
However, the outlet gates and roofwalk are standout features on the model. The roofwalk looks like a real stamped part and puts other 2D etched walkways to shame. The outlet gates look insane with all the fixtures and mechanism detail.
I'm impressed, but not $65 impressed. The assembly issues need to be fixed, because it's a high price to pay for a model with suspect assembly and part fit. Part of that derives from the brass-hybrid nature of the models, but is it worth it? I'm not sure. The thin-profile brass ribs look good, but you can see gaps in the bodywork where the mounting tabs fit into slots molded into the plastic shell. This is evident in the underside photos and end photos (second and last links). It feels like a zero-sum game. You get nice realistic-profile ribs, but the assembly of those ribs introduces a new error to the model that's arguably worse in appearance than regular molded-in ribs would have been in the first place.
Tangent is still my benchmark in terms of price and detail. I don't think Arrowhead beats it. The new Tangent 8K tank cars are $42 at Lombard right now. Granted, that's older tooling, but it's still a premium high-detail model for $20 less than Arrowhead. The same goes for their newer Greenville 86' Auto Parts boxcar. I think I picked mine up for a little over 50 bucks, so $10 cheaper than Arrowhead. Arrowhead is pushing part count to increase realism and get extra detail like rib cross-section and thin brackets, but that makes it all the more difficult to assemble at the factory; and I think your photos show what happens when the limit of assembly line workers is pushed.
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Post by 12bridge on Oct 22, 2022 20:08:36 GMT -8
That printing is not exactly razor sharp either.
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Post by simulatortrain on Oct 22, 2022 20:52:58 GMT -8
If ever there was a model that cries out for Sergent couplers, this is it.
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Post by five83 on Oct 23, 2022 4:28:26 GMT -8
Even though I didn't necessarily need this car, after seeing these photos, I'm glad I went with my gut and held off on pre-ordering. The assembly and QC issues leave much to be desired, especially at the price point it's being offered at. It's easy to point the finger at the factory and the covid era in which we are living in, but at what point does it get to where adding more detail to a model isn't exactly the best way to go? I know us modelers want that, but it seems like more and more disappointments come because of it. I'm not hating on Arrowhead as I have several of their 2494 gondolas, but at this time, I think I'll wait to see if things improve with later releases.
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Post by markfj on Oct 23, 2022 5:58:49 GMT -8
+1 on the Great Photos! Assembling this model on a mass production level must be a real challenge. Since the parts are likely painted prior to assembly, the assemblers are probably having a tough time getting things to fit just right. We’ve been over this ground before in other threads; paint adds to the dimensions of parts and CA is really the only glue that will bond paint to paint surfaces. If the parts are assembled unpainted, getting good paint coverage on areas like the end cages would be impossible and unpainted areas would be very noticeable. The poorly pad printed COTS label is a surprising QC miss and one I’m sure will be addressed.  Nice model, I hope it sell well! Thanks, Mark |
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Post by riogrande on Oct 23, 2022 6:04:23 GMT -8
Speaking of readable print, I remember in the 1980's getting a couple of N scale Kadee freight cars with tiny print. It was so tiny, even with my young eyes I needed a magnifier and it was much sharper and clear than what is show above. So it certainly is possible.
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Post by unittrain on Oct 23, 2022 6:28:05 GMT -8
Another thing is the strength of the bond between these small parts. The proper application of CA is obviously essential and on such a large and complex production project that can lead to QC issues. The bond between brass and plastic can be weak especially with a small surface area. I'm currently using Gold Medal models X bracing and styrene strip to build bridge columns and the bond surface area is small and the CA has to be applied just right I use the Flexy photo etch CA.
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Post by csxt8400 on Oct 23, 2022 10:34:02 GMT -8
I agree on the pad printing, and it gives me further respect for what I've been able to see Cartograf pull off in terms of fidelity. I'll get a few of these cars down the line, I'm nowhere near disappointed, but the critique in this thread is very fair and I think the tradeoff between part count and fit and finish is a conversation that needs to be had.
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Post by riogrande on Oct 23, 2022 10:38:02 GMT -8
Perhaps due to the assembly issues, one could order from Blaine and request inspection prior to shipping to minimize issues.
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Post by buffalobill on Oct 24, 2022 14:01:59 GMT -8
I received my Arrowhead CNW #180122 from Lombard Hobbies today. Very nice. My only issue is the A end uncoupling rod had come loose and was off. Some cement will fix that. I am not sure Russ's photos really did this car justice. The printing was sharp and clear. No sign of glue blobs, and some of the shine on the B end and the brake reservoir area was light reflection from the phone not glue. Only one grab iron that was what I would consider crooked, it was just over the stirrup on the B left side. Almost prototypical, since the carmen on the repair tracks are not craftsmen. All in all a very innovative car, the ACF gravity pneumatic outlet gates are just amazing, the only issue is the holes for the running board in the upper side panels, a little weathering will hide that.
I am not sure the price criticism is justified, I had a another Tangent 4750 in the order, Lombard charged $60 for the Arrowhead car, and $48 for the Tangent car. Both are short discount items. Only a $12 spread. Not unreasonable given the level of complexity and detail on this car. Not criticizing Tangent I have 140 of Dave's cars, mostly Covered Hoppers, and I love them. It is just he is not the disruptor he once was 15 years ago with the introduction of the 4740. The high end cars from other manufacturers have caught up with Tangent. Arrowhead is trying to innovate with the Railgond and this 4600. They are both amazing cars.
I am up for more 4600's. BN, Mop, CSX. I hope we see other manufacturers moving forward with innovative materials, and designs.
Bill
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Post by gevohogger on Oct 25, 2022 4:29:09 GMT -8
This is the view that scares me off. Nothing looks square or parallel.... And the reservoir isn't even sitting on its mounting brackets.  |
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Post by fishbelly on Oct 25, 2022 5:44:17 GMT -8
nstophat, this model is unacceptable for what you paid for it. If the car only cost $10.00 it would be unacceptable. This example of an Arrowhead model is awful. Just hideous. I would wager this is not the norm though and unfortunately Blaine haters will use these photos as the Arrowhead posterchild. It is very unfortunate that a model in this condition would make it to market. It is common though with all the manufacturers. Wait, I have not seen an Accurail car sent out in this condition  . Some of these uglies get by. What you decide to do with it is up to you of course. I would highly suggest sending it back to where you bought it from for a refund or contacting Arrowhead and sending them the photos and asking for a replacement model. |
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Post by choochooboy on Oct 25, 2022 6:38:41 GMT -8
@ Gevohogger:
I would be happy to take care of you on this. I've cut and paste our official position on returns from our website.
"We sell through hobby stores, and we sell online. In today’s world, sales transact online with great frequency. For products purchased from our own website, we guard your interests by allowing you to return products with an unconditional guarantee for 7 days after the purchase. This is a guarantee that serves you, not us. No questions. No problems."
I am pretty sure that you did not buy from us directly. But that wouldn't matter, I work hard to try and take care of everyone--just drop me a line.
My best,
Blaine Hadfield
Arrowhead Models
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Post by cemr5396 on Oct 25, 2022 11:17:40 GMT -8
The high end cars from other manufacturers have caught up with Tangent. Although I would argue the point that others have caught up with Tangent, (they are still the best of the best, IMO) it is certainly a good thing that others are attempting to do so! |
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Post by nstophat on Oct 25, 2022 18:17:33 GMT -8
Okay, so I have had a chance to actually sit down and evaluate the car vs the images I posted. As I initally stated, these were quick and dirty images, using my 5 year old cell phone and available basement lighting.
As I type I am looking at the car using my reading glasses coupled with my Optivisor. The lube plate lettering is fuzzy due to what appears to be a double printing of white on black that is ever so slightly off register.
The printing on both slope sheets appears to have a heavier than normal appearance just to the left of center of the entire lettering block, throwing off the overall appearance. The rest of the lettering on the car is clean, crisp and opaque. Any fuzziness in the images previously posted is due to my cell camera.
The end cages and appliances; both ends have a glossier sheen to the yellow paint versus the rest of the car, especially the top side of the B end platform and all of the appliances. Not sure why, but if I had to guess the ends were not coated with a satin finish the way the rest of the car. The assembly of the A end is slightly concave because it appears that the end sill isn't seated properly.
The B end is more of an issue as it looks like some over pressed the end while waiting for the CA to bond. The piping looks wonky and the two holes that were drilled into the air cylinder are off of the mounting brackets. The excess of CA in this location does make it look even worse.
Remember there are a lot of photoetched parts that make up this car, but with that being said the tab slots could be a touch narrower for a better fit appearance.
Yes, there are some sprue boogers that should have been cleaned up, but the worst offenders are easy to take care of.
Lastly, there are no finger prints in the paint, at least none that I could find.
So that being said, at the end of the day, my car is going to get weathered as some of its sisters looked around 2015, eventhough UP had completely repainted my road number in Grey. The lube plate will probably get the newer version. The end cages will stay as they are, as most of the images I have of these cars have damaged end cages during my Era.
I would expect Arrowhead to take this run and review with the plant any and all issues and get them addressed on all future runs. Their RailGons have improved with each batch as I expect with these.
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Post by mvlandsw on Oct 26, 2022 15:06:38 GMT -8
I wonder if it's even possible to address all the issues that come up with having low wage workers assemble the increasingly complex models. I know that when I build a model it takes great care to be sure that parts are installed correctly and in proper alignment. Sometimes this requires redoing some steps, which I doubt that an assembly line process allows.
Kadee seems to have made the assembly process easier by having all the parts key together rather than having to be glued.
Even the best manufacturers fall below my standards on parting line and sprue nub removal.
Mark Vinski
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Post by fr8kar on Oct 26, 2022 18:20:18 GMT -8
This is the view that scares me off. Nothing looks square or parallel.... And the reservoir isn't even sitting on its mounting brackets. I had planned to get some of these CNW cars but when it came time to buy them the money had to be spent elsewhere so unfortunately I missed out. But a friend of mine did get some of these and he shared some photos of them with me when they arrived. His examples did not have what appear to be sloppy glue marks on the reservoir as seen on the photo above, or a reservoir improperly seated in the mounts, or the overall wonky appearance the model has in this photo (possibly exaggerated by the field of vision of the camera?). It did unfortunately have the loosely placed gussets at the upper corners of the angled upright beams where they meet the end sheets. Both end views of nstophat's car have these parts applied inconsistently as did the ends of my friend's car he photographed. My guess is that these parts don't have a definitive location they fit on the model, i.e. locator pins that ensure a go/no-go fit. If I had received my friend's model in the mail I would have been fine with popping off the gussets and reattaching them in the proper location. But if I received nstophat's model in the mail that would be one of a few issues that bothered me and I would have a much different feeling about the model. Hopefully nstophat's model is an isolated example of less than stellar assembly. Big picture here: I upgraded many of the Accurail cars back in the day and the cost to replace trucks, couplers, running boards, stirrups and ladder rungs, add new grabs, brake gear, handbrake wheel, plumbing then apply paint and decals to the model puts a project like that even with if not exceeding the cost of the Arrowhead model (it makes the Genesis cars seem like a great bargain, too). These are pretty minor errors and they all appear to be assembly errors, not design errors, so that bodes well for future runs of these cars if the factory can be brought in line. |
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Post by fcixdarrell on Oct 26, 2022 19:48:24 GMT -8
I wonder if it's even possible to address all the issues that come up with having low wage workers assemble the increasingly complex models. I know that when I build a model it takes great care to be sure that parts are installed correctly and in proper alignment. Sometimes this requires redoing some steps, which I doubt that an assembly line process allows. Mark Vinski Mark, I totally hear you. Hypothetically, let's try to take that level of care we (prototypical/rivet counters/fellow freakazoids) typically invest in personal projects and now add in we are now suddenly controlled by quota,s which mean we are on the production line until the management-set quotas are met (however many hundreds/thousands of units/steps) and if we hold up those after us on the assembly line, they stay until their quotas are met. Yikes. Shades of Wal-Mart before the feds stepped in and put a stop to them locking employees in the stores until everyone in the stores quotas were met, on their own dime. The Chinese factory workers that we rely on for our hobby don't have the protections that we have. How many of us are forced (or volunteer) to live in a factory compound with armed guards to keep us from seeking employment elsewhere, to provide toys for a totally unfamiliar society? Picture yourself sitting at a long table with about a dozen folks on each side and a pile of ACF 4600 bodies, and several piles of detail parts that when combined, make up the brake reservoir/piping and mounting brackets. Say you've grown up in a super rural part of Alaska or Wyoming or Utah or wherever where there is very little technology, let alone North American freight cars, where your only life experience was based on non-mechanized agriculture (rice patties or equivalent) and now you are expected to sit on an assembly line sticking super small, super fragile parts together (and YOU are penalized - QUOTAS - for damaged parts) that have absolutely ZERO reference to your life experience and you are making less than living wages and you have zilch cultural reference to what you are building and have zilch understanding of what we, the model railroading consumer expects as rabid model railroading rivet counters/glue blob inspectors/color inspectors/pad printing lupe inspecting critics are expecting at super low price points. How would we, the rabid model railroaders do assembling super detailed models of Thai motorized food stalls or buses from South America that only run between Cartagena and Bogata, Columbia. The people we rely on to assemble our toys live on the factory grounds 24/7, and we keep expecting them to assemble more and more complex cars/locos with zero defects, at a price-point we are comfortable paying. Complicating matters is the fact the factory workers can make far more per hour assembling tech products(smart phones, computers, robotics, etc. than they can make assembling model trains, so the factories are getting the folks that couldn't get on at the tech factories. Our industry is now a training ground for tech workers, causing high turnover in the factories that supply us which in turn impacts quality. Each production run is basically a start from scratch exercise training inexperienced assemblers. Until the industry finds balance and is able to retain skilled workers (at what cost at the retail level), we are going to experience different levels of quality, based on which factories are doing the work. As the economy in China fluctuates like the rest of the world, in conjunction with their zero-COVID policies, we are not going to see many improvements. The current processes mask quality issues by producing excess quantities of parts to cover for defects, driving costs up at the retail level. During these times of increased inflation, it is imperative that either the Chinese factories reduce costs by reducing defects, or risk the increasing costs killing the industry as discretionary income is reduced by soaring inflation, or more importantly, the importers of model trains (Arrowhead, Athearn, Atlas, Bowser, NARCorp, Rapido, ScaleTrains, Tangent, etc.) that we support with our really hard-earned dollars NEED to step up to the plate and take control over THEIR destiny and drive production/innovation, rather than let China dictate their future. Whether it's through 3D printing or automated assembly, the industry must adapt or it's going to go the way of buggy manufacturers, saddle makers, rotary dial phones, cassette tapes, flip-phones or dial-up modems.Commodore, ICE vehicles - the world will keep progressing, regardless of the industry we love. Most of the importers don't want to drive change on their own, most want to tag onto someone else's coat tails, few want to drive the change that's required to keep this a viable industry. Everyone (the industry) need to cooperate and save the industry/hobby. Speaking from a 40+ year manufacturing background and 15+ years involvement in this amazing industry, I stand by my statements. Darrell Sawyer |
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Post by GrandeGould on Oct 27, 2022 11:08:51 GMT -8
Not going to lie, you make excellent points about the plight of model railroad manufacturing but this his highly offensive and it's clear you've never been to rural areas of Alaska or Wyoming or Utah. From what I understand, Arrowhead itself is currently based in a rural part of Wyoming and moved there from Utah. It's not whatever huge city you live in, but it's not a third world country like you seem to think it is. The average John Deere tractor has more advanced computers what you use at whatever job you do. Agriculture is a highly technologically advanced industry. Oil and mining even more so. Everybody has the same access to phones and computers and consumer electronics that you do. The land areas with no cell phone coverage are shrinking rapidly and mostly relegated to National Parks and wilderness areas. |
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Oct 27, 2022 11:29:07 GMT -8
I wonder if it's even possible to address all the issues that come up with having low wage workers assemble the increasingly complex models. I know that when I build a model it takes great care to be sure that parts are installed correctly and in proper alignment. Sometimes this requires redoing some steps, which I doubt that an assembly line process allows. Mark Vinski Mark, I totally hear you. Hypothetically, let's try to take that level of care we (prototypical/rivet counters/fellow freakazoids) typically invest in personal projects and now add in we are now suddenly controlled by quota,s which mean we are on the production line until the management-set quotas are met (however many hundreds/thousands of units/steps) and if we hold up those after us on the assembly line, they stay until their quotas are met. Yikes. Shades of Wal-Mart before the feds stepped in and put a stop to them locking employees in the stores until everyone in the stores quotas were met, on their own dime. The Chinese factory workers that we rely on for our hobby don't have the protections that we have. How many of us are forced (or volunteer) to live in a factory compound with armed guards to keep us from seeking employment elsewhere, to provide toys for a totally unfamiliar society? Picture yourself sitting at a long table with about a dozen folks on each side and a pile of ACF 4600 bodies, and several piles of detail parts that when combined, make up the brake reservoir/piping and mounting brackets. Say you've grown up in a super rural part of Alaska or Wyoming or Utah or wherever where there is very little technology, let alone North American freight cars, where your only life experience was based on non-mechanized agriculture (rice patties or equivalent) and now you are expected to sit on an assembly line sticking super small, super fragile parts together (and YOU are penalized - QUOTAS - for damaged parts) that have absolutely ZERO reference to your life experience and you are making less than living wages and you have zilch cultural reference to what you are building and have zilch understanding of what we, the model railroading consumer expects as rabid model railroading rivet counters/glue blob inspectors/color inspectors/pad printing lupe inspecting critics are expecting at super low price points. How would we, the rabid model railroaders do assembling super detailed models of Thai motorized food stalls or buses from South America that only run between Cartagena and Bogata, Columbia. The people we rely on to assemble our toys live on the factory grounds 24/7, and we keep expecting them to assemble more and more complex cars/locos with zero defects, at a price-point we are comfortable paying. Complicating matters is the fact the factory workers can make far more per hour assembling tech products(smart phones, computers, robotics, etc. than they can make assembling model trains, so the factories are getting the folks that couldn't get on at the tech factories. Our industry is now a training ground for tech workers, causing high turnover in the factories that supply us which in turn impacts quality. Each production run is basically a start from scratch exercise training inexperienced assemblers. Until the industry finds balance and is able to retain skilled workers (at what cost at the retail level), we are going to experience different levels of quality, based on which factories are doing the work. As the economy in China fluctuates like the rest of the world, in conjunction with their zero-COVID policies, we are not going to see many improvements. The current processes mask quality issues by producing excess quantities of parts to cover for defects, driving costs up at the retail level. During these times of increased inflation, it is imperative that either the Chinese factories reduce costs by reducing defects, or risk the increasing costs killing the industry as discretionary income is reduced by soaring inflation, or more importantly, the importers of model trains (Arrowhead, Athearn, Atlas, Bowser, NARCorp, Rapido, ScaleTrains, Tangent, etc.) that we support with our really hard-earned dollars NEED to step up to the plate and take control over THEIR destiny and drive production/innovation, rather than let China dictate their future. Whether it's through 3D printing or automated assembly, the industry must adapt or it's going to go the way of buggy manufacturers, saddle makers, rotary dial phones, cassette tapes, flip-phones or dial-up modems.Commodore, ICE vehicles - the world will keep progressing, regardless of the industry we love. Most of the importers don't want to drive change on their own, most want to tag onto someone else's coat tails, few want to drive the change that's required to keep this a viable industry. Everyone (the industry) need to cooperate and save the industry/hobby. Speaking from a 40+ year manufacturing background and 15+ years involvement in this amazing industry, I stand by my statements. Darrell Sawyer I hope you're making generalizations about manufacturing and factory conditions in general, and not speaking specifically about model train companies. Yes, there are sweatshops and poor conditions in China, but accusing model train companies of holding their workers hostage or insinuating that Arrowhead is abusing their workers is simply uncalled for. We have seen tours inside and outside of Rapido's factory. Scaletrains has a 40 minute video on their youtube channel about manufacturing model trains including videos of the assembly process, and we have seen tours of brass manufacturers in Korea on Brasstrains.com. Nowhere in the videos do you see armed guards or workers forced to live in the factory. I believe you that worker abuse occurs, and I've read about it too, but let's be honest, you have no evidence of these things happening at the factories of the model train companies you are accusing. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Oct 27, 2022 11:34:56 GMT -8
Most of the importers don't want to drive change on their own, most want to tag onto someone else's coat tails, few want to drive the change that's required to keep this a viable industry. Everyone (the industry) need to cooperate and save the industry/hobby. Speaking from a 40+ year manufacturing background and 15+ years involvement in this amazing industry, I stand by my statements. Darrell Sawyer Darrell, I would think that MRIA division of HMA would be the place to go to generate cooperation. Their second "purpose and objective" contains: "To unite, coordinate, evaluate, analyze and communicate on matters of common interest to its members..." You state that your concerns should be their concerns. Perhaps you should bring these matters to them. Ed |
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Post by gevohogger on Oct 27, 2022 11:44:58 GMT -8
Not going to lie, you make excellent points about the plight of model railroad manufacturing but this his highly offensive and it's clear you've never been to rural areas of Alaska or Wyoming or Utah. From what I understand, Arrowhead itself is currently based in a rural part of Wyoming and moved there from Utah. It's not whatever huge city you live in, but it's not a third world country like you seem to think it is. The average John Deere tractor has more advanced computers what you use at whatever job you do. Agriculture is a highly technologically advanced industry. Oil and mining even more so. Everybody has the same access to phones and computers and consumer electronics that you do. The land areas with no cell phone coverage are shrinking rapidly and mostly relegated to National Parks and wilderness areas. Let it go man, not everything is meant as a personal insult towards you and yours. |
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Post by Baikal on Oct 27, 2022 19:54:22 GMT -8
Mark, I totally hear you. The people we rely on to assemble our toys live on the factory grounds 24/7... Speaking from a 40+ year manufacturing background and 15+ years involvement in this amazing industry, I stand by my statements. Darrell Sawyer
Liar.
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Post by scl1234 on Oct 28, 2022 12:01:09 GMT -8
Not a moderator, but this thread is close to needing a moderator clean up. (Thank You in advance)
Please be respectful of others. That is all.
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Post by fcixdarrell on Oct 28, 2022 14:40:04 GMT -8
Not going to lie, you make excellent points about the plight of model railroad manufacturing but this his highly offensive and it's clear you've never been to rural areas of Alaska or Wyoming or Utah. From what I understand, Arrowhead itself is currently based in a rural part of Wyoming and moved there from Utah. It's not whatever huge city you live in, but it's not a third world country like you seem to think it is. The average John Deere tractor has more advanced computers what you use at whatever job you do. Agriculture is a highly technologically advanced industry. Oil and mining even more so. Everybody has the same access to phones and computers and consumer electronics that you do. The land areas with no cell phone coverage are shrinking rapidly and mostly relegated to National Parks and wilderness areas. What?! I said that the Chinese factories have rural areas to recruit from - meaning the picking population-wise is sparse. I didn't say anything disparaging about rural residents! Pickings are slim because there aren't a lot of people. I have no idea why you bring up John Deere tractors, they aren't being assembled in model railroad factories! And cell phones and coverage? Sure we all may have access to them, but we aren't all assembling them on a production line. Sorry for any misconceptions you may have read into what I said. Darrell Sawyer |
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Post by fcixdarrell on Oct 28, 2022 14:51:51 GMT -8
I hope you're making generalizations about manufacturing and factory conditions in general, and not speaking specifically about model train companies. Yes, there are sweatshops and poor conditions in China, but accusing model train companies of holding their workers hostage or insinuating that Arrowhead is abusing their workers is simply uncalled for. We have seen tours inside and outside of Rapido's factory. Scaletrains has a 40 minute video on their youtube channel about manufacturing model trains including videos of the assembly process, and we have seen tours of brass manufacturers in Korea on Brasstrains.com. Nowhere in the videos do you see armed guards or workers forced to live in the factory. I believe you that worker abuse occurs, and I've read about it too, but let's be honest, you have no evidence of these things happening at the factories of the model train companies you are accusing. I am speaking specifically of model train factories in China. I am NOT accusing any North American-based model train importer of abusing anyone. WTF did I accuse Blaine or Arrowhead of abusing anybody? Jeeze Louise! I have been to manufacturing facilities in Hong Kong and injection molding, assembly and decoration factories in Dongguan. Been there and done it. Also have photos from our sanitized dog and pony show that was put on for us. Blaine, nor any other importers have no control over how the factory is run, nor how employees are treated, nor do the importers even take worker conditions into account when developing a new car or loco or a rerun. Darrell Sawyer |
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Post by Baikal on Oct 29, 2022 11:58:06 GMT -8
I am speaking specifically of model train factories in China. I am NOT accusing any North American-based model train importer of abusing anyone. WTF did I accuse Blaine or Arrowhead of abusing anybody? Jeeze Louise! I have been to manufacturing facilities in Hong Kong and injection molding, assembly and decoration factories in Dongguan. Been there and done it. Also have photos from our sanitized dog and pony show that was put on for us. Blaine, nor any other importers have no control over how the factory is run, nor how employees are treated, nor do the importers even take worker conditions into account when developing a new car or loco or a rerun. Darrell Sawyer
People know you are refeing to China. People also know you are making stuff up about life in China. (You're not the first here to blame or otherwise dump on Chinese)
You admit going to a "dog and pony show", aka an act put on to fool people. Apparently it worked.
I've been to China and I didn't see what you are describing. But I didn't hang out in tourist areas and did'nt subject myself to theater of any sort. I purposely went to places where locals shop. work, and eat. I traveled solo, was not hassled.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Oct 30, 2022 16:52:03 GMT -8
I get there are issues with manufacturing, but I don't see why things have to get personal. Just state the facts. If you have a rebuttal to someone's statements, respond with facts!!! This is the only warning.
Donnell
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Post by el3672 on Oct 30, 2022 21:21:37 GMT -8
It's really Unfortunate and sad to see how this Forum has digressed to this point.
I used to enjoy as most due, contributing, sharing, welcoming members comments & replies to this hobby.
Not so much anymore, stop all the bickering over toy trains & find some positive appreciation
for our continued hobby enjoyment?
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. Some of these uglies get by. What you decide to do with it is up to you of course. I would highly suggest sending it back to where you bought it from for a refund or contacting Arrowhead and sending them the photos and asking for a replacement model.
