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Post by scl1234 on Dec 7, 2022 5:28:30 GMT -8
To argue whether or not company X can afford to do Y is an incorrect assessment of the situation
It all boils down to being a business decision, plain and simple.
It’s really tough to argue color shades on a forum due to all the variables involved, and yellow is probably the worst of all.
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Post by atsf_4 on Dec 7, 2022 6:48:27 GMT -8
They screwed up the new ATSF orange reefers, too, as they are too yellow, far lighter in shade then their drawings, and more importantly far lighter than prototype photos. I wanted the cars for my layout, but the color is factually just plain wrong, not even close. Initially I was quite impressed by the detailing on those cars as were folks at the local train store (though others have mentioned the trucks look just bloody awful), but Rapido's paint color matching is nothing short of horrible.
Poor color matching is not limited to just UP E units. Also ATSF Kodachrome B36-7 both red and yellows are wrong, various Conrail units with multiple shades of blue on the same unit, and on it goes from there: LV RS-11's very wrong red, ATSF PA-1's wrong red, etc. etc.
After seeing the photos of what they did and did not do correctly on the UP E-units, I am angry that I have 4 Rapido E units pre-ordered and yet to arrive when it is clear, yet again, that there are issues, some of which are stupid routine QA/QC issues like "did you not see that? how can you let it go out like that?"
I will never ever ever under any circumstances pre-order another Rapido product. I've given them second, third, fourth, and fifth chances and have just been burned every single time.
The reefers, well I wanted a cut of them. Other than the reefers the only acceptable products I've ever received from Rapido are the Penn Central X72 boxcars (they weigh too light and I completely replaced trucks and couplers) and the Amtrak E-8 but maybe because black just covers a whole lot of issues. The NKP PA-1 is acceptable. Some others were not.
They had a golden opportunity to hit it out of the park and create the definitive model of some of these items, so much better than anything the competition has offered, yet each time they manage to let that opportunity slip away.
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Tom
Full Member
Posts: 235
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Post by Tom on Dec 7, 2022 6:49:48 GMT -8
They can afford to get it right as that's what's being peddled (and we have plenty of PT Barnums.)
Practice has often dictated that such a decision is, in fact, good for business.
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Post by 12bridge on Dec 7, 2022 8:39:30 GMT -8
I can not unsee the front headlight issue now that it was pointed out to me. Would post a photo but I am not near a computer.  What is wrong with the nose headlight? This was posted on facebook, I lay no claim to the photo.  ...to me, it almost looks like somebody later added it in the CAD as an extruded circle into the nose, not a nice lofted/blended part. |
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Post by gevohogger on Dec 7, 2022 8:54:20 GMT -8
Wow!
I am *hoping* that is just an optical illusion caused by the green anti-glare panel but am not very optimistic.
Have we seen any in a solid-color paint scheme?
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Post by Baikal on Dec 7, 2022 9:29:55 GMT -8
What is wrong with the nose headlight? This was posted on facebook, I lay no claim to the photo. ...to me, it almost looks like somebody later added it in the CAD as an extruded circle into the nose, not a nice lofted/blended part.
Outstanding! Literally standing out!
Compare both yellows to their proto colors.
The Highliners/BLI RI E8 looks great, from 7 years ago!
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Post by unittrain on Dec 7, 2022 10:24:17 GMT -8
Wow that headlight is hideous 😳😳.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 7, 2022 11:25:38 GMT -8
"What makes Rapido's E8 and E9 models different than every E8 or E9 that has come before? Simple-we're doing it right. Every E8 model out there is a "best guess" as to the nose, roof and windshield contours of the real thing. At Rapido's we don't believe in making guesses. That's why we commissioned a 3D laser scan of Union Pacific E8 #942 at the Southern California Railway Museum. A 3D scan ensures that we get those impossible-to-guess contours bang-on accurate. Our engineers trace the scan and shrink it dow to HO scale." This is, of course, demonstrated by comparing the headlight in the photos above of a Rapido UP E8 with the same from photos of the very prototype they scanned:   I suppose it could be pointed out that there was no mention of "headlight" in the quote above. A valid point, for sure. Ed |
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Post by gevohogger on Dec 7, 2022 11:52:36 GMT -8
They should have saved all that travel expense and just made a scan of a Highliners nose....
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Post by Baikal on Dec 7, 2022 11:56:06 GMT -8
"What makes Rapido's E8 and E9 models different than every E8 or E9 that has come before? Simple-we're doing it right. Every E8 model out there is a "best guess" as to the nose, roof and windshield contours of the real thing. At Rapido's we don't believe in making guesses. That's why we commissioned a 3D laser scan of Union Pacific E8 #942 at the Southern California Railway Museum. A 3D scan ensures that we get those impossible-to-guess contours bang-on accurate. Our engineers trace the scan and shrink it dow to HO scale." This is, of course, demonstrated by comparing the headlight in the photos above of a Rapido UP E8 with the same from photos of the very prototype they scanned: I suppose it could be pointed out that there was no mention of "headlight" in the quote above. A valid point, for sure. Ed
There were no scanners at the EMD plant. Those perfect curves were banged out by men with steel hand tools & wood forms.
Rapido translated their labor into a digital nightmare.
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Post by Partial_List on Dec 7, 2022 12:26:22 GMT -8
What is wrong with the nose headlight? This was posted on facebook, I lay no claim to the photo. ...to me, it almost looks like somebody later added it in the CAD as an extruded circle into the nose, not a nice lofted/blended part. Ouch. Looks like the one on the right hasn’t been telling the truth… |
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Post by pboilermaker on Dec 7, 2022 12:49:42 GMT -8
This was posted on facebook, I lay no claim to the photo. ...to me, it almost looks like somebody later added it in the CAD as an extruded circle into the nose, not a nice lofted/blended part. Thanks for the clarification. The difference is stark in comparison and your assessment appears to be correct...no blending. This wasn't terribly obvious on the 4316, but it looks pretty amateurish on UP. Almost as bad as the same area on the Athearn Blue Box F7. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Dec 7, 2022 12:52:36 GMT -8
They screwed up the new ATSF orange reefers, too, as they are too yellow, far lighter in shade then their drawings, and more importantly far lighter than prototype photos. I wanted the cars for my layout, but the color is factually just plain wrong, not even close. Initially I was quite impressed by the detailing on those cars as were folks at the local train store (though others have mentioned the trucks look just bloody awful), but Rapido's paint color matching is nothing short of horrible. Poor color matching is not limited to just UP E units. (snip) LV RS-11's very wrong red, (snip) This one I don't lay all the blame to Rapido on as they relied on an AHRS paint chip taken from a protected location, although I suspect there is some slightly translucent paint over light base color shift there. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 7, 2022 13:14:04 GMT -8
They "relied" on the paint chip. Did they "match" the paint chip?
Ed
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Post by markfj on Dec 7, 2022 14:02:12 GMT -8
The photos amtrakfl9 posted are really damning evidence that someone is not paying attention at Rapido. It's one thing to have the artwork not match the production model, but the mistake of the dual steam generator is more than just a slight oversight. Guess we'll be seeing these model for sale at deep discounts come spring. Oh well, back to my favorite seat at the Mos Eisley cantina on Tatooine.  Thanks, Mark |
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Post by cera2254 on Dec 7, 2022 14:03:59 GMT -8
They "relied" on the paint chip. Did they "match" the paint chip? Ed This is one of those situations where a sample painted the the factory would have caught the issue while it was still fixable… The only thing that matter when it comes to paint is that it looks “right” not if it matches a paint chip since it does not scale, as has been discussed previously. |
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Post by riogrande on Dec 7, 2022 14:45:32 GMT -8
The photos amtrakfl9 posted are really damning evidence that someone is not paying attention at Rapido. It's one thing to have the artwork not match the production model, but the mistake of the dual steam generator is more than just a slight oversight. Guess we'll be seeing these model for sale at deep discounts come spring. Thanks, Mark Thats assuming enough people notice the issues and don't buy them. |
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Post by amtrakfl9 on Dec 7, 2022 15:00:25 GMT -8
The photos amtrakfl9 posted are really damning evidence that someone is not paying attention at Rapido. It's one thing to have the artwork not match the production model, but the mistake of the dual steam generator is more than just a slight oversight. Guess we'll be seeing these model for sale at deep discounts come spring. I’m not so sure about the deep discount. This has been happening for several years now with Rapido and their sales seem as strong as ever, so I see no reason for the pattern to change. They may have lost me as a pre-order customer over this, but I don’t think that will trouble them to hear. |
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Dec 7, 2022 15:01:51 GMT -8
Glad I cancelled the 2 Erie Lackawanna units I had on Pre-Order
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Post by atsf_4 on Dec 7, 2022 15:57:14 GMT -8
Ouch. Not obvious in black, but very painfully obvious in "Armour Yellow". Just cannot be unseen.
Ok, my BLI E units may growl a little noisily, but there are things BLI did that end up looking better under the basement fluorescent lights...and those E units are old models now. (I'm comparing different E units not straight E8 to E8, apples to apples comparison, but still...)
Wonder what those E8 poll results would look like now? Walthers Proto has an incorrect roof contour, but is otherwise decent?
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Post by edwardsutorik on Dec 7, 2022 16:24:30 GMT -8
The folks who Know Things on the UP Modeling Group are waking up to the Rapido E8's.
UP E8A's were delivered with twin boilers. They were replaced with singles, no date mentioned. The E8B's never had twin boilers.
I believe Rapido had contact with a number of UP folks, so I am at my usual loss for why there are problems with the UP locos.
The only Rapido locos that I actually HAVE to buy are their NP/BN RS-11's. I'm just a LITTLE apprehensive on those.
I also ordered a GN U25B--always thought they looked hot. I've heard that they're going to be painted in the same faded GN colors that the SW1200s were. My local shop has offered me rejection rights.
Ed
Ed
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Post by hudsonyard on Dec 7, 2022 16:44:08 GMT -8
At this point I just hope the GP38s mean that a bunch of atlases flood the secondary market from the latest-and-greatest-buy-unbox-run crowd that makes up a lot of clubs and modular groups.
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Post by craigz on Dec 7, 2022 17:38:49 GMT -8
I'm no E unit expert but those windows look god awful. nobody can do the nose on one of these units without *SOME* kind of error. The Highliners/Genesis F unit shell is still the gold standard for the windshields all these years later. No laser scanning but just meticulous work to get it done right. |
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Post by cera2254 on Dec 7, 2022 18:06:13 GMT -8
I'm no E unit expert but those windows look god awful. nobody can do the nose on one of these units without *SOME* kind of error. The Highliners/Genesis F unit shell is still the gold standard for the windshields all these years later. No laser scanning but just meticulous work to get it done right. I would love to see a photo with all, well most, of the F/E unit noses produced to date. |
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Post by atsf_4 on Dec 8, 2022 6:45:04 GMT -8
At this point I just hope the GP38s mean that a bunch of atlases flood the secondary market from the latest-and-greatest-buy-unbox-run crowd that makes up a lot of clubs and modular groups. Once you've built a cut of Intermountain reefers and 40' boxcars and endured that frustration, then found out for a few bucks more one can save all the time and frustration, it's all too easy to join the buy-unbox-run crowd. Some of us have don't have the time, patience, or skills to assemble and paint models anywhere nearly as close to what a good factory can do. I'm paying for someone else who I know can do a better job of assembly than me. |
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Post by unittrain on Dec 8, 2022 6:46:47 GMT -8
If Rapido continues to ignore things on the R&D side while allowing the factory to QC as it sees fit it won't be long before the crap hits the fan. When you present yourself as a maker of models aimed at the more serious prototype modeler with prices to match and then just totally disregard these customers concerns it will catch up to them sooner or later. These aren't necessary purchases for anyone and any producer of model train products needs to take that into consideration. I'm not against the humorous videos it can be a cool side show but at the end of the day the products have to be good, if they aren't and the humorous videos tacitly mock customer concerns then from a buisness standpoint that's just pure idiocy at that point. Only time will tell, I had pre-ordered 2 E8s, 6 U25bs and 5 GP38s but have canceled them as ill wait and see results first.
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Post by hudsonyard on Dec 8, 2022 7:13:50 GMT -8
At this point I just hope the GP38s mean that a bunch of atlases flood the secondary market from the latest-and-greatest-buy-unbox-run crowd that makes up a lot of clubs and modular groups. Once you've built a cut of Intermountain reefers and 40' boxcars and endured that frustration, then found out for a few bucks more one can save all the time and frustration, it's all too easy to join the buy-unbox-run crowd. Some of us have don't have the time, patience, or skills to assemble and paint models anywhere nearly as close to what a good factory can do. I'm paying for someone else who I know can do a better job of assembly than me.
Trust me I'm a firm believer in "buying back your time" when it comes to certain rolling stock and locomotives. i'd rather spend valuable modeling time doing equipment thats unique to my road, but if somethings available on the shelf i'm willing to justify the cost over time spent. i'm more referring to the guys who will sell off perfectly good older locomotives because they have something newer in hand, regardless if the quality matches or improves with the new purchase. I've been able to get a lot of perfectly good accurail cars, or atlas/proto locomotives this way over the years.
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Post by nstophat on Dec 8, 2022 7:32:47 GMT -8
In all seriousness, does anyone know which E-unit they digitally scanned? Also, do we know the wreck & rebuild history of said scanned unit? because if that unit had been in a wreck that damaged the nose, or had a new headlight added, that may account for the rather odd-looking proboscis.
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Post by riogrande on Dec 8, 2022 7:35:15 GMT -8
So much hand wringing over the E8's makes me glad it isn't a must have model for me.
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Post by gevohogger on Dec 8, 2022 7:46:51 GMT -8
At this point I just hope the GP38s mean that a bunch of atlases flood the secondary market from the latest-and-greatest-buy-unbox-run crowd that makes up a lot of clubs and modular groups. Once you've built a cut of Intermountain reefers and 40' boxcars and endured that frustration, then found out for a few bucks more one can save all the time and frustration, it's all too easy to join the buy-unbox-run crowd. More than a few bucks. Intermountain freight car kits were $11 to $14 for many many years. Colorado-made kits. I have a shelf full of them. The fully-assembled cars are what, about $45 retail? Obviously you can get them for less than that but I am using the Desplaines Hobbies extreme example here. |
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