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Post by 12bridge on Jun 16, 2023 16:45:08 GMT -8
I have to add one - A very underappreciated model if I do say so myself.. The Proto 2000 Alco S1/S3. It has fantastic detail, great handrails, runs and pulls good, easy to DCC (baring you start fresh).. Proto does not get the recognition it deserves when it comes to the well detailed stuff we have now. They really started that movement with the BL2 in what, 1990?
I have a few Alco S-series switchers, both Proto 2000 and Atlas. Both look & run well. Weathered, they're hard to tell apart.
I see Atlas has upgraded the switcher cabs and for the first time ever in plastic, added the later welded cabs on appropriate models. This is a big deal, I hadn't noticed this on the latest releases. Note the lack of most rivets and the round-corner windows, which were very difficult to model.
Unfortunately there is two major issues with the retooled S4. The end handrails are way wider then they should be, its very noticeable. And the mold seam on the nose, which is going to be a bear to flatten out without taking out detail. |
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Post by Baikal on Jun 16, 2023 17:00:47 GMT -8
I have a few Alco S-series switchers, both Proto 2000 and Atlas. Both look & run well. Weathered, they're hard to tell apart.
I see Atlas has upgraded the switcher cabs and for the first time ever in plastic, added the later welded cabs on appropriate models. This is a big deal, I hadn't noticed this on the latest releases. Note the lack of most rivets and the round-corner windows, which were very difficult to model.
Unfortunately there is two major issues with the retooled S4. The end handrails are way wider then they should be, its very noticeable. And the mold seam on the nose, which is going to be a bear to flatten out without taking out detail.
The end handrails are odd. I'm going to get an SP S-4, they had 64 and Alco switcher-wise I only have one each HH-660, S-1, and S-2. For $115 non-DCC it's worth it for smooth-running switcher that will be stripped & repaint gray & red.
Now that the welded cab has been done, will the rest of the S-5/S-6/T-6 switchers follow? SP had 70 of them. They were SP's most numerous switcher in '67 & '68 untill swamped by the SW1500s, which ultimately numbered 240. The Athearn SW1500 is also a nice model.
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Post by 12bridge on Jun 16, 2023 17:06:25 GMT -8
It kind of dumbfounded me, since they are correct on the S2..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2023 21:10:33 GMT -8
Ed-- Did you also check the axle diameters? Bet you didn't check the driver locations relative to the cab, smokebox front etc. You might get surprised. John I did not. I was responding to your comment: "Real question is which one steam loco drive axle do you want to be in the correct position, because all others get compromised." And Baikal's response to that: "Usually, but not always." And, as I said, I found a model that has drive axles spaced at the prototype distance. I since found another: a W&R GN 0-6-0. For both models, I also checked the dimension from the rear-most axle to the back of the cab, and those dimensions match, also. Ed Look there may be exceptions out there of course, but there are plenty of steam loco models that have significant compromises, brass or otherwise. Just cause it's brass or even a new model today doesn't mean it's right. Also some things that were not done well in etched brass in the 80's or 90's are much more effectively modeled in plastic today. The relief that can be obtained with plastic is better and can allow for better visibility after painting than the etched brass did. Lots of people loved the PFM Crown Series of models. For many years they were held up as being the "gold standard". Yet some of them are not very good models in terms of accuracy. It is well documented by John Glaab and others that the owner of PFM would routinely make model "adjustments" based upon his aesthetic views. If he didn't like a dome position, he changed it, even on PFM Crown series models. In some cases PFM factually enlarged the boiler of some of their steam locomotives by 10% to make the models "more impressive". The Rio Grande M-75 4-8-2 PFM Crown is one of these models (I've been told there's others but I don't remember which ones they were). The M-75 is an impressive appearing model, and I like it, but it's way wrong. Even with today's diesels there are little compromises that have to be made to remain within budgets. The other guys (not Rapido) are just smart enough not to claim their model will be the be all end all most perfect model ever made of that prototype. |
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Post by talltim on Jun 17, 2023 4:17:55 GMT -8
Bachmann's Thomas the Tank Engine... Ooh, contentious. Correct to the books or the original TV series or the later series? |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 17, 2023 4:38:15 GMT -8
Bachmann's Thomas the Tank Engine... Ooh, contentious. Correct to the books or the original TV series or the later series? The ones "hosted" by George Carlin, of course. Are there any others? |
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Post by idgara on Jun 17, 2023 5:23:32 GMT -8
Ringo Starr
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Post by drolsen on Jun 17, 2023 5:30:04 GMT -8
People got all upset at Rapido for not correctly modeling the Seaboard step wells on B36-7's... I think the complaints came not because they didn't correctly model the SBD step wells, but because they said they were going to do so and then they didn't. Yes, many people will recall how Rapido made a big point of showing how they were taking 3D scans of prototype locomotives to design their models. In this case, they used a former SBD unit as the subject. I had the chance to correspond with the lead designer for this particular model while it was in development. He was aware of the step well difference, took it to “management” to ask for approval for the additional tooling to cover that variation, and it was denied. I can understand the business decision, but I don’t agree with it, especially in light of all the other detail variations they’ve offered across their product line. I hope they’ll eventually tool that variation on a future run, but if not, I don’t plan to buy any more than the two CSX units I got from the original release. I didn’t find out that the step wells weren’t reproduced correctly until the model was released. Dave |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Jun 17, 2023 5:36:20 GMT -8
I did not. I was responding to your comment: "Real question is which one steam loco drive axle do you want to be in the correct position, because all others get compromised." And Baikal's response to that: "Usually, but not always." And, as I said, I found a model that has drive axles spaced at the prototype distance. I since found another: a W&R GN 0-6-0. For both models, I also checked the dimension from the rear-most axle to the back of the cab, and those dimensions match, also. Ed Look there may be exceptions out there of course, That is the point of our comments. Ed |
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Post by pboilermaker on Jun 17, 2023 11:15:12 GMT -8
When it comes to all-round models that are close to perfection, I'd say the ScaleTrains Rivet Counter ET44AC, ES44AC, and C44-9W are probably the best in today's market. Those are out of my era but I would put the ScaleTrains C39-8 in the same category. I have two from the first release and another three on order. Yes, the ST C39-8s have to be considered close to perfect for modeling purposes. |
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Post by surlyknuckle on Jun 17, 2023 11:27:47 GMT -8
Straight out of the box, I've found the Bowser RS-3 to be terrific. It's not just the details, but the execution; Everything is straight, flush, no glue marks. Solid performer. And while I'd argue there are other models that are just as detailed, the difference is in the assembly and finish. So I would include my Scale Trains C39-8s and SD40T-2s but not their SD40-2s when it comes to "perfect"
The Athearn Genesis F units are definitely up there, but then Athearn goes and does something like mount the roof coils backwards on the latest WM run and *poof* there it goes. Nothing against the tooling, but there's that "execution" again...
Every time I open a Tangent models box, I feel joy. Similar to Moloco, just that Tangent produces so much stuff I can use. I'd gladly consider myself a Tangent fan boy.
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Post by locochris on Jun 17, 2023 15:13:18 GMT -8
It'd be great if we had a manufacturer that made locomotives as good as Tangent/Moloco make freight cars.
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Post by jbilbrey on Jun 17, 2023 17:03:09 GMT -8
Honestly, there is are no "perfect" models, just some that are less imperfect. I am sure that we all have our personal favorites that we believe are the "best". If I were to give some of the locomotives that I have as "perfect" based on fidelity of detailing, paint and finish, and operating characteristics, it would go something like this.
Alco: P2K's RS27 with 2nd Place going to Bowser's RS3. The only area that I feel the RS27 really edges out the RS3 is the sideframe detailing.
EMD/GMD: A tie between ScaleTrains SD40-2 & Bowser's SD40-2.
GE: Athearn's Genesis 2.0 Dash-9's and 2nd Place being ScaleTrains ES44AC.
Non-brass steam: Spectrum's USRA 2-6-6-2 Mallet with 2nd Place going to their Russian Decapod.
Brass diesel and steam: I have too limited of experience/exposure to even attempt to make a call there. IMHO, it probably takes a true craftsman/machinist/modeler to make just about any brass locomotive really shine.
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Post by cera2254 on Jun 17, 2023 17:39:01 GMT -8
I’ve not owned many brass units, but my Conrail C30-7 is pretty doggone good. I’ve heard those 2003/2004 era units were about the best Overland units.
I think the Scaletrains SD40-2 probably edges out the Genesis GP15-1 and GP38-2s just because of the scale (or near scale) draft gear they have.
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Post by csxt8400 on Jun 17, 2023 18:14:13 GMT -8
It's been awhile since I've dissected the GP15-1, but something to do with how Athearn cut the numberboards always struck me. Without my notes I seem to think it had Atlas-itus, where the board is not tall enough causing the numbers to be condensed. Something along those lines.
Also, while I'm a fan of Bowser's GMD Dash 2, it is certainly not perfect. Incorrect truck castings previously pointed out, and that nose headlight HAS to be scaled down too much. The prominence of the nose light in real life doesn't seem to translate to the model. I haven't taken measurement to it yet but my eyes scream it.
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Post by michaele on Jun 19, 2023 9:29:53 GMT -8
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Post by bigblow69 on Jun 23, 2023 17:57:40 GMT -8
What do you think I might say??
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Post by es80ac on Jun 26, 2023 11:36:33 GMT -8
Sorry, but I have some subjective opinions on this locomotive. Other the unrealistic wide flange, there are way too much day light being shown on this locomotive as compare to the real thing. |
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Post by es80ac on Jun 26, 2023 12:33:29 GMT -8
P2k 2-8-8-2 and 0-8-0 comes close, especially considering how long ago they were produced
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Post by michaele on Jun 27, 2023 8:20:55 GMT -8
Too much daylight? Please explain.
If you mean the light leak around the windscreen, I agree. I haven't seen too many models with a design such as this with cab lighting, that didn't leak at least a sliver of light in a spot or two.
It's better than no cab lights at all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2023 8:44:18 GMT -8
P2k 2-8-8-2 and 0-8-0 comes close, especially considering how long ago they were produced They are both relatively generic versions that represent USRA locos in more or less as-delivered condition, or in the case of the N&W 2-8-8-2's, some Y-3 originals after 1930's modifications that N&W completed to improve them. However, in brass there are USRA 2-8-8-2 models that are much nicer and better detailed than the P2K plastic version (of course at much higher cost). The P2K 0-8-0 is really outdone by the W&R/Samhongsa USRA 0-8-0's which have numerous more road-specific details on them and even different non-USRA tenders, and most of them are going for over $1,000 now even unpainted (The New Haven ones are not as popular and tend to be the least expensive; the NKP ones are very popular and are more expensive despite actual production quantities being similar). The railroads began modifying USRA locos very soon after delivery such that eventually some of them didn't look much like USRA engines anymore. This also frustrates some modelers because photos of the USRA locos and even the USRA copies for some railroads are very scarce. The P2K models are really super nice models to be sure, but for accuracy, my comment is "it depends". The guy running the steamlocomotive.com website does an amazing job; yet there is a lot of steam loco information that is just lost to history. This is also why I keep saying there are no perfect models (but there are some super nice ones). |
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Post by es80ac on Jun 28, 2023 9:55:47 GMT -8
Too much daylight? Please explain. If you mean the light leak around the windscreen, I agree. I haven't seen too many models with a design such as this with cab lighting, that didn't leak at least a sliver of light in a spot or two. It's better than no cab lights at all. What I mean with "Too much daylight" is if you do a good side to side comparison between the model and the real prototype, you see the prototype do not much space/light visible between the body and the underframe/trucks, everything look to be compact. If you look at the model, there is a lot room between the trucks and the body, also the equipment underframe seem to be simplified. |
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Post by talltim on Jan 25, 2024 8:04:10 GMT -8
A lot of 4-6-0's will qualify for that. Plus "all" 4-4-0's. Most 2-6-2's, I would think. Ed
That's a fact. Also geared locomotives.
This is a weird hill to die on.
I'd guess the driving axle spacing on this is right rapidotrains.co.uk/gnr-stirling-single-no-1/ |
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unit
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Post by unit on Jan 25, 2024 20:13:13 GMT -8
Bachmann's Thomas the Tank Engine... This. This is why we need a like button on this forum. |
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Post by wp8thsub on Jan 25, 2024 21:02:47 GMT -8
This is why we need a like button on this forum. Who's gonna tell him? |
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Post by soolinerr on Jan 26, 2024 9:26:32 GMT -8
Moloco !
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