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Post by jonklein611 on Feb 5, 2024 11:58:12 GMT -8
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 5, 2024 13:10:03 GMT -8
The BN units shown in the artwork have mufflers mounted on the roof, above the HEP equipment. The one shown in the video does not. The video does say something about an "optional" piece, but it only demonstrates one "option".
Some clarification by Rapido would be in order, especially since the order deadline is only about a month away.
Ed
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Post by gevohogger on Feb 5, 2024 13:50:13 GMT -8
The BN units shown in the artwork have mufflers mounted on the roof, above the HEP equipment. The one shown in the video does not. The video does say something about an "optional" piece, but it only demonstrates one "option". Some clarification by Rapido would be in order, especially since the order deadline is only about a month away. Their website says "Correct HEP muffler and hatch" but admittedly does not specify which locomotive(s) that refers to.
I also wonder if the BNs came without the mufflers back when they were freshly rebuilt, and if they were added later. I do not know.
They also have an odd fabricated pilot which I can't see if it was replicated on the model.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Feb 5, 2024 13:51:43 GMT -8
I am impressed with Rapido's venture into Chicago commuter railroading! The BN "Racetrack" is one of the most iconic staples in American passenger railroading and they seemed to have covered every aspect as far as locomotives and rolling stock goes! Nice job Rapido.
Donnell
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Post by onequiknova on Feb 5, 2024 14:28:54 GMT -8
The original Rapido artwork showed HEP detail that represented as built, or at least very early units. (The early HEP muffler/fan arrangement seemed to change often early in their career.) What I see in that video is how they looked when they were retired.
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Post by cemr5396 on Feb 5, 2024 14:54:09 GMT -8
The original Rapido artwork showed HEP detail that represented as built, or at least very early units. (The early HEP muffler/fan arrangement seemed to change often early in their career.) What I see in that video is how they looked when they were retired. wouldn't be a Rapido project if they didn't change a bunch of stuff in development without saying anything about it. |
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Post by onequiknova on Feb 5, 2024 15:24:12 GMT -8
The HEP set up Rapido is using appears to have shown up around 1985. The small red marker light under the headlight were installed earlier than that, so I'm not sure why that is being left for the modeler to install.
On a side note, Rapido chose to do the early BN Bilevels and not the later BN bilevels with the large blue Metra signs on the side, and a green BN logo next to the door, but are now doing a late E unit. Hmmm.
I'm on the fence about getting one of these or finishing the one I started years ago, but personally I'm glad they chose the later HEP, since I'd be aiming for how they looked in the early 90s when I saw them.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 5, 2024 15:46:07 GMT -8
Perhaps Rapido can explain why I should buy a late E unit to go with my early bilevels.
Or maybe that's all taken care of with the "option".
Meanwhile, I didn't notice the sound of HEP. I thought there was a separate generator dropping into where the boiler(s) used to be.
Ed
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 5, 2024 16:40:44 GMT -8
Geesh...I was hoping for pizza...  |
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Post by trainboyy on Feb 5, 2024 17:14:30 GMT -8
The artwork for the CR E8's still looks brown, instead of the dark green. I don't know if I should be scared or not. |
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Post by riogrande on Feb 5, 2024 17:15:58 GMT -8
Beena long time since I had a deep dish pizza. Mmmm
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lhr
New Member
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Post by lhr on Feb 5, 2024 17:26:46 GMT -8
The HEP set up Rapido is using appears to have shown up around 1985. The small red marker light under the headlight were installed earlier than that, so I'm not sure why that is being left for the modeler to install. On a side note, Rapido chose to do the early BN Bilevels and not the later BN bilevels with the large blue Metra signs on the side, and a green BN logo next to the door, but are now doing a late E unit. Hmmm. I'm on the fence about getting one of these or finishing the one I started years ago, but personally I'm glad they chose the later HEP, since I'd be aiming for how they looked in the early 90s when I saw them. The red marker light under the headlight seemed to appear around 1980. I've looked at numerous photos and they were absent into late 1979, but were there by early 1980. The exhaust setup on these changed a few times in their career. One version had the "Walker" mufflers mounted crosswise in front of the rear HEP hatch. Another time they had a curved chrome plated exhaust pipe sticking up thru the roof in the same location. The remaining years had the "Walker" mufflers flanking the metal covering over the cooling fan in back. They also has extra cooling fans mounted where the dynamics would have been early on, but some of those metal boxes were taller than others for some reason. Greg |
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Post by hudsonyard on Feb 5, 2024 20:22:04 GMT -8
an extremely tired metra E8 pair made it to the long island railroad in the mid 90's as they were testing the first generation modern double deck coaches, the two consumed an entire pallet of lubricant anywhere it went and I don't think it ever saw revenue service.
they would be replaced by a pair of E20s (GP-38-2s) and a frankenstiened FA power pack to provide the HEP power for the coaches.
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Post by Mr. Trainiac on Feb 5, 2024 20:34:27 GMT -8
an extremely tired metra E8 made it to the long island railroad in the mid 90's as they were testing the first generation modern double deck coaches, it consumed an entire pallet of lubricant anywhere it went and I don't think it ever saw revenue service. they would be replaced by a pair of E20s (GP-38-2s) and a frankenstiened FA power pack to provide the HEP power for the coaches. That road number in the headlight lens is pretty awesome, and the video work is really good zooming in on all the details: a rivet counter's dream. The LIRR E8 was a CNW locomotive, not a BN, so it's not exactly the same as the Rapido model. I'm not sure who did the HEP conversion, it might have been a CNW in-house project. They were done pretty early (1960s?) for the Pullman + St. Louis smoothside bi-levels. There is a convenient overhead shot at Silvis, which shows a different radiator design on the HEP panel at the rear: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5404680 |
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Post by gevohogger on Feb 6, 2024 5:02:07 GMT -8
an extremely tired metra E8 made it to the long island railroad in the mid 90's as they were testing the first generation modern double deck coaches, it consumed an entire pallet of lubricant anywhere it went and I don't think it ever saw revenue service. they would be replaced by a pair of E20s (GP-38-2s) and a frankenstiened FA power pack to provide the HEP power for the coaches. That road number in the headlight lens is pretty awesome, and the video work is really good zooming in on all the details: a rivet counter's dream. The LIRR E8 was a CNW locomotive, not a BN, so it's not exactly the same as the Rapido model. I'm not sure who did the HEP conversion, it might have been a CNW in-house project. They were done pretty early (1960s?) for the Pullman + St. Louis smoothside bi-levels. There is a convenient overhead shot at Silvis, which shows a different radiator design on the HEP panel at the rear: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5404680I'm glad you mentioned the C&NWs.... They seem to be mostly forgotten in the shadow of the BN E units, possibly because they were almost all retired before the widespread availability of portable video cameras for personal use. But I am a little surprised Rapido didn't include them in their "Hep" series. Maybe it's because they don't offer an appropriate bilevel for C&NW? Or maybe it's because the C&NWs varied a lot from unit to unit - countless porthole variations, different numberboards, etc, but it would have been a golden opportunity to tool up a Crandall cab! |
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Post by packer on Feb 6, 2024 6:48:49 GMT -8
Sorta tempting, but I think I should hold out.
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Post by waverly5 on Feb 6, 2024 7:03:03 GMT -8
The Amtrak HEP rebuilds also had subtle differences (mainly rooftop arrangement) so will be interesting to see how that's handled (or not).
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Post by slowfreight on Feb 6, 2024 7:37:33 GMT -8
The BN units shown in the artwork have mufflers mounted on the roof, above the HEP equipment. The one shown in the video does not. The video does say something about an "optional" piece, but it only demonstrates one "option". Some clarification by Rapido would be in order, especially since the order deadline is only about a month away. Their website says "Correct HEP muffler and hatch" but admittedly does not specify which locomotive(s) that refers to. I also wonder if the BNs came without the mufflers back when they were freshly rebuilt, and if they were added later. I do not know. They also have an odd fabricated pilot which I can't see if it was replicated on the model.
The HEP configuration change repeatedly between the original M-K rebuilding and retirement. The version that is shown on the preproduction model is accurate for some of the units, beginning around 1987 or so. It's correct in the Metra era, but not really in the WSMTD era (BN-lettered bilevels). But considering the post-Metra lives of many of these units, the bulk of these versions will be correct. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 6, 2024 9:35:19 GMT -8
I just called Rapido to try to clear up the BN problem, noted above. I was on auto-hold for a few minutes, and then directed to leave a message.
So I just sent an e-mail, which Rapido has automatically responded as receiving. That e-mail said it might take 10 business days while they do their research on the matter. Good news is that it still leaves me plenty of time to cancel my order, if the problem remains.
It also leaves more time to discuss the matter, both here and elsewhere.
Ed
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Post by jonklein611 on Feb 6, 2024 10:04:23 GMT -8
I just called Rapido to try to clear up the BN problem, noted above. I was on auto-hold for a few minutes, and then directed to leave a message. So I just sent an e-mail, which Rapido has automatically responded as receiving. That e-mail said it might take 10 business days while they do their research on the matter. Good news is that it still leaves me plenty of time to cancel my order, if the problem remains. It also leaves more time to discuss the matter, both here and elsewhere. Ed Did you use their new email address for these types of things? |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 6, 2024 13:51:04 GMT -8
I received an answer to my e-mail to Rapido.
They will be including two versions of roof details: one is the one shown in the video; the other is the "muffler style". They are changeable.
Hooray!!!!
Ed
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cnwman
New Member
Modeling the C&NW's Harvard Subdivision circa summer 1978.
Posts: 24
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Post by cnwman on Feb 6, 2024 15:20:42 GMT -8
The C&NW E8s were originally converted to HEP in-house with Cummins HEP engines in the in the late 1950s (for the intercity "Bilevel 400 trains of 1958) and 1960s (for bilevel commuter service). On the hatch above the Cummins motor were two 32" fans, covered by a protective screen made of freight car roof walk material. Mufflers were added to these circa 1974, after receiving noise complaints from residents near an outlying commuter coach yard (Des Plaines, IL). The C&NW sold all 36 of its commuter Es to the Regional Transportation Authority at the end of 1977 but continued to operate them in C&NW colors. In 1980, 12 of the rebuilt 500-series units (rebuilt in-kind in 1974 at C&NW's Oelwein IA ex-CGW shop complex) were rebuilt once again by C&NW at Oelwein for the RTA. The RTA specified replacement of the Cummins HEP plants with Detroit Diesel engines. This required a change in the radiator set up, which afterwards featured twin fans mounted on a raised box in the center of the roof (similar to the BN units) along with a different muffler arrangement at the rear. The Detroit Diesels must not have worked out too well, as by 1983 the Cummins engines were put back in RTA Es with their original fan configuration. The external radiator piping to the boxy fan structure was removed, but the box and the fans remained (though unused). This is the configuration that existed when the RTA rebranded their commuter rail operation as "Metra" in the mid-1980s. Hope this helps explain the history and evolution of HEP configurations on the C&NW/RTA/Metra E8s. Mark an extremely tired metra E8 made it to the long island railroad in the mid 90's as they were testing the first generation modern double deck coaches, it consumed an entire pallet of lubricant anywhere it went and I don't think it ever saw revenue service. they would be replaced by a pair of E20s (GP-38-2s) and a frankenstiened FA power pack to provide the HEP power for the coaches. That road number in the headlight lens is pretty awesome, and the video work is really good zooming in on all the details: a rivet counter's dream. The LIRR E8 was a CNW locomotive, not a BN, so it's not exactly the same as the Rapido model. I'm not sure who did the HEP conversion, it might have been a CNW in-house project. They were done pretty early (1960s?) for the Pullman + St. Louis smoothside bi-levels. There is a convenient overhead shot at Silvis, which shows a different radiator design on the HEP panel at the rear: www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5404680 |
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Post by locochris on Feb 6, 2024 16:31:15 GMT -8
I received an answer to my e-mail to Rapido. They will be including two versions of roof details: one is the one shown in the video; the other is the "muffler style". They are changeable. That's good. Does anyone know which version would be used between 1981 and 1983 with the BN cars? |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Feb 6, 2024 18:29:24 GMT -8
I received an answer to my e-mail to Rapido. They will be including two versions of roof details: one is the one shown in the video; the other is the "muffler style". They are changeable. That's good. Does anyone know which version would be used between 1981 and 1983 with the BN cars? I believe the following should help answer that: The version that is shown on the preproduction model is accurate for some of the units, beginning around 1987 or so. It's correct in the Metra era, but not really in the WSMTD era (BN-lettered bilevels). Ed |
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Post by slowfreight on Feb 8, 2024 6:31:14 GMT -8
The C&NW E8s were originally converted to HEP in-house with Cummins HEP engines in the in the late 1950s (for the intercity "Bilevel 400 trains of 1958) and 1960s (for bilevel commuter service). On the hatch above the Cummins motor were two 32" fans, covered by a protective screen made of freight car roof walk material. Mufflers were added to these circa 1974, after receiving noise complaints from residents near an outlying commuter coach yard (Des Plaines, IL). The C&NW sold all 36 of its commuter Es to the Regional Transportation Authority at the end of 1977 but continued to operate them in C&NW colors. In 1980, 12 of the rebuilt 500-series units (rebuilt in-kind in 1974 at C&NW's Oelwein IA ex-CGW shop complex) were rebuilt once again by C&NW at Oelwein for the RTA. The RTA specified replacement of the Cummins HEP plants with Detroit Diesel engines. This required a change in the radiator set up, which afterwards featured twin fans mounted on a raised box in the center of the roof (similar to the BN units) along with a different muffler arrangement at the rear. The Detroit Diesels must not have worked out too well, as by 1983 the Cummins engines were put back in RTA Es with their original fan configuration. The external radiator piping to the boxy fan structure was removed, but the box and the fans remained (though unused). This is the configuration that existed when the RTA rebranded their commuter rail operation as "Metra" in the mid-1980s. Hope this helps explain the history and evolution of HEP configurations on the C&NW/RTA/Metra E8s. Mark The CNW/RTA units would be worthy of their own master class. You hit the high points, but it took me several years to collect enough photos to think about accurately modeling one of the RTA units! Ordinarily I wouldn't want anything BN, but after all our years of hounding for Chicago commuter equipment, I decided I had to fly the flag and preorder a 3-car dinky. If these don't do well, not sure Rapido could be sold on the later Budd cars we all truly need...along with an Ingalls, a C415 and an EL waycar--er, caboose. |
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Post by bn7023 on Feb 9, 2024 16:28:05 GMT -8
These were kitbashed in 1995 from Proto 2000 models. I interpreted it to be different depending on the locomotive number.  Click here to enlarge |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 9, 2024 16:37:37 GMT -8
These were kitbashed in 1995 from Proto 2000 models. I interpreted it to be different depending on the locomotive number. Click here to enlargeSlightly off topic, what type of adhesive did you used for the side vent pieces? I'm in early stages of an E-8 project. Not commuter. Thnx. Nice models, post the whole of one or both on the Sunday, "Look at what I did", some time. |
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Post by bn7023 on Feb 9, 2024 19:37:06 GMT -8
Are you talking about long etched plates? 28 years ago so I don't remember exactly, I think the adhesive was 60 minute epoxy. It must have been left with weights on them in a cold environment for about 24 hours. This method will not cause buckling. It is impossible for me to explain the logic with my poor English. In short, it is the difference in thermal expansion coefficient between plastic and metal. The same goes for the long roofwalk of freight cars. |
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Post by kentuckysouthernrwy on Feb 10, 2024 4:47:22 GMT -8
Are you talking about long etched plates? 28 years ago so I don't remember exactly, I think the adhesive was 60 minute epoxy. It must have been left with weights on them in a cold environment for about 24 hours. This method will not cause buckling. It is impossible for me to explain the logic with my poor English. In short, it is the difference in thermal expansion coefficient between plastic and metal. The same goes for the long roofwalk of freight cars. I can say your English is perfectly fine, much much better than MY English at times surely 100% better than my Japanese. Thanks for the explanation, btw, your memory is a whole lot better than mine, too. |
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Post by carrman on Feb 10, 2024 16:48:42 GMT -8
Wish they'd fix the oversize numberboards.
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