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Post by riogrande on Apr 2, 2024 9:29:26 GMT -8
Also, apparently there are some Loksound decoders that have bad components and fail as well.
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 2, 2024 10:31:26 GMT -8
Probably worth the investment in an oval of sectional or some kind of snap track to set up just to test engines with. A few cheap cars weighted to the max would simulate pulling a full train.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 2, 2024 11:02:47 GMT -8
Probably worth the investment in an oval of sectional or some kind of snap track to set up just to test engines with. A few cheap cars weighted to the max would simulate pulling a full train. I have some Kato Unit track for a test loop, but there isn't much space to set it up that isn't on the floor of the basement. But I'll have to figure out something. |
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mdq
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Post by mdq on Apr 2, 2024 12:01:14 GMT -8
Is Rapido pre-determined not to be amongst the best? You can select "other" and reply that is who you voted for rapido models are beautiful models and they look great on a shelf. They fail miserably in the dependability and reliability department to put it mildly. |
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mdq
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Post by mdq on Apr 2, 2024 12:02:21 GMT -8
First and formost I am an operator. While I love detailing my own and buying diesels that are 100 percent dead nuts on you simply cannot argue with Walthers Proto/Mainline and Atlas as far as a unit you know once the shell is closed and the decoder is programed with never give you an issue, even if out of the box the detailing is a tad bit generic. I agree with you. And as Lance said many times: Reliability is number 1. |
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cn2240
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Post by cn2240 on Apr 2, 2024 13:10:44 GMT -8
Split my vote between ST and Genesis.
It would've been ST alone but more recent Rivet Counter models have been having some issues so it's now a tie between them Genesis.
Only ever had one Bowser which was an older C630M with factory Tsunami sound. It wasn't particularly reliable and the sound wasn't that good.
I would've picked Atlas as well if they actually included ditch lights for their ESU-equipped CN Zebra Stripe GP40-2Ws.
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Post by jonklein611 on Apr 2, 2024 13:25:10 GMT -8
Throw one in for Rapido, with some caveats. They are the (almost) only game in town for decently accurate Canadian Motive power. I can only speak to the items in my fleet in HO: FP9A/B, LRC's, F40's, RDC's, F59PH. I've run all for multiple show seasons without any issues. I don't even remember cleaning wheels between years. I cannot speak to any of their other locos in HO but the ones I have have look good, run well, sound decent, and are in the road names I like to model. As far as value, that's tricky, some were more expensive than I would really have wanted, but some dealers do discount items fairly well.
I have a smattering of Kato (SD70MAC, P42) / Atlas (Amtrak -8's and AEM-7's) / BLI (J Class) that also have performed well and would consider them decent values but maybe not as detailed. My older blue box Athearns are probably my worst performers and haven't been out of the box in years.
I've recently added some newer Bachmann / Athearn (Via Ventures and P42s) but don't have any operating data on them yet.
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Post by riogrande on Apr 2, 2024 13:50:41 GMT -8
Throw one in for Rapido, with some caveats. They are the (almost) only game in town for decently accurate Canadian Motive power. I can only speak to the items in my fleet in HO: FP9A/B, LRC's, F40's, RDC's, F59PH. I've run all for multiple show seasons without any issues. Good to know about the F40PH's. Those are the only Rapido loco's I own and bought to run an 80's Amtrak California Zephyr which ran on the D&RGW summer of 1983 and afterward. What are the other choices for F40PH's? Walthers Trainline, Bachmann Spectrum or KATO, which reportedly have dimension errors. |
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Post by NS4122 on Apr 2, 2024 15:58:50 GMT -8
Yes, it could take awhile to develop. The ES44AC that I'm referring to had it's second motor replacement last Spring and it took until a couple weeks ago to show signs that it had failed. Now it gets really warm and there's a burning smell. At the very most it had 20 hours of run time on it. Simply testing ST diesels won't show if there's a problem. They all run great right out of the box. It's as you run them that the failures tend to occur. You can watch the amperage draw increase (on the dcc system) and that is the first clue that there is a problem. Once the amperage draw increases significantly to where the loco is at 0.60 amps or higher, it will most likely need to go back to ST for repair. They think that once you get beyond 3 to 4 hours of running time on a loco that you are generally going to be ok. The failures typically occur in the first couple hours of use, and again, all of ours ran great right out of the box--there was no sign of any issue whatsoever at the beginning, and like models ran together or were certainly well enough matched that they could easily run together (I check for that also by running multiples at the same time, but not coupled together). Most recently brand-new ST or Athearn Genesis diesels are in the 0.30 amps or less range with the sound on and all lights on and maybe even a moderate length train behind them. The Bowser units seem to draw slightly less current than that. Also, if one runs noticeably warmer to the touch than others, keep an eye on the amperage of that particular unit. That said, I have Genesis and Atlas Master Series units that run a bit warmer than others and they seem to be ok. When mine failed, it was quickly--a train running around the layout increased amperage significantly over several minutes to as much as a half hour, and the loco became erratic in performance. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 2, 2024 17:30:33 GMT -8
Seems like at one point there was a motor issue, weak motors, that affected several brands, Bowser included.
I picked Bowser and Atlas for reliability; Atlas may not have as much road specific detail but they always run. They have slowly gotten better, but they're also usually less expensive than everyone else.
Regular Athearn are some of the most reliable engines out there, even 50 year old ones will usually run. The one that sat in an open car trunk for years and a couple that the magnets exploded are the only ones there was no hope to get to run.
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Post by prr 4467 on Apr 2, 2024 17:47:23 GMT -8
The weak motor issue was many years ago now. The last Bowser units with the weak motors were the very first run of C-636's about 9.5 years ago. Lee had already specified a new motor, and it was too late for that particular run to get the new motor. Guess time has passed pretty fast since then. I believe some Atlas and Intermountain units were also affected.
The ST motor failures were due to a different issue...allegedly oil wicking or leaking into the motors so I was told when I asked.
As for why the ESU Loksound decoders also were experiencing issues, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever.
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Post by jonklein611 on Apr 3, 2024 5:10:45 GMT -8
As for why the ESU Loksound decoders also were experiencing issues, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. ESU had a bad batch of components come through. I'm assuming part of their PCBA / sub assembly had failures. |
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Post by crblue on Apr 3, 2024 5:37:52 GMT -8
I've recently added some newer Bachmann / Athearn (Via Ventures and P42s) but don't have any operating data on them yet. How do you like the Venture coaches? I've watched some reviews on youtube, but the general feeling I've gotten is that they lack detail for what you would expect at the $85 street price. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Apr 3, 2024 6:53:24 GMT -8
I've recently added some newer Bachmann / Athearn (Via Ventures and P42s) but don't have any operating data on them yet. How do you like the Venture coaches? I've watched some reviews on youtube, but the general feeling I've gotten is that they lack detail for what you would expect at the $85 street price.
I think they look good, won't know how they perform until the next show season. It feels like a Bachmann Europe product, not the typical "toy set" Bachmann. I can't say I'm super knowledgeable about the prototype to know what's missing, but here's my take. It's a sharp looking car with decent details, sharp graphics, metal wheels, decent knuckle couplers, interior, and interior illumination. The interior is monocolor and not to Rapdio level of detail (same for the underbody), but it's $30 cheaper than a Rapdio Budd Car. They did make a programming error on the Charger, it flashes the ditch lights when you honk the horn, and the cab cars are delayed until this summer.
I'm hoping Bchmann will produce the Brightline sets as well, those would be a fun one for the club.
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Post by packer on Apr 3, 2024 7:29:25 GMT -8
I threw in a vote for Scaletrains, Atlas, and Bowser. All 3 of them have made things right when something went wrong and can get parts; but usually they are pretty darn good (I've not had running issues with any of them). They also make up the bulk of my roster. I'm still a bit soured on Genesis afther that GP18 thing, and I've had a few of them develop motor problems later.
I don't have a walther's mainline unit so I can't comment there.
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Post by loco8107 on Apr 3, 2024 9:19:33 GMT -8
Best for the money? Atlas for experienced modelers and Athearn especially for beginners and even are still good to fix up for cheap too. And they run forever. Proto is good too but a little more $$ than Atlas. And all 3 are reliable, established names too. I know I’ll get my $$ worth and then some.
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Post by cellis231 on Apr 3, 2024 11:32:36 GMT -8
I feel like people are all over the map with this thread because of the conflicting post title and what the poll is asking for. The best loco manufacturer and the manufacturer that offers the best value are two totally different things, there are a lot of variables to me at least.
I voted on the value question, but my answers would be very different if it was just the overall best manufacturer.
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Post by prr 4467 on Apr 3, 2024 13:12:44 GMT -8
Ok, I guess I see that point though I didn't originally read the poll that way.
If I'm naming the best HO manufacturer period (regardless of price point), to me it is clearly Boo Rim in Seoul, South Korea, because their models are the best I have ever seen in HO, truly state of the art, despite happening to be brass. BLI is doing a great job with the (steam) brass hybrids indeed, but Boo Rim models are on yet another level (and price point) entirely, for those able to afford them (not me, definitely not anymore, and not with kids in college).
Their Rock Island steamers for Precision Scale, the several different steam models imported by Railworks (including PRR and New Haven), the Santa Fe steam models they have done, the Texas & Pacific steam models for Precision Scale, and many more are as nice as if not better than anything Samhongsa/Sam Model Tech produced. I would have to put Sam Model Tech in a close second place. Opening hatches on steam locos and tenders, working class lights on some, etc etc.
Those models, generally at $1200 (used) and up these days, run exceptionally well, and actually as good as they look.
For the rest of us who are not well off, the poll results so far seem to be reasonably accurate and what I might have expected to see.
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Tom
Full Member
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Post by Tom on Apr 4, 2024 9:32:23 GMT -8
Throw one in for Rapido, with some caveats. They are the (almost) only game in town for decently accurate Canadian Motive power. I can only speak to the items in my fleet in HO: FP9A/B, LRC's, F40's, RDC's, F59PH. I've run all for multiple show seasons without any issues. Good to know about the F40PH's. Those are the only Rapido loco's I own and bought to run an 80's Amtrak California Zephyr which ran on the D&RGW summer of 1983 and afterward. What are the other choices for F40PH's? Walthers Trainline, Bachmann Spectrum or KATO, which reportedly have dimension errors. Sadly, they all have dimensional errors. WKW shell is a good point to start from. |
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Apr 4, 2024 11:25:22 GMT -8
I wonder how difficult it would be to swap out the motor in a ScaleTrains unit with a Kato H HM-5 motor? Kato motors to this day are by far the BEST motors on the market IMHO.
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 4, 2024 23:16:16 GMT -8
I wonder how difficult it would be to swap out the motor in a ScaleTrains unit with a Kato H HM-5 motor? Kato motors to this day are by far the BEST motors on the market IMHO. For what they cost and given ST takes that much more profit out of the sale price, you shouldn't have to do anything. |
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Post by atsfcf7 on Apr 24, 2024 6:56:49 GMT -8
I see Bowser is getting a lot of votes. Unfortunately they have never made anything I need. This. |
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Post by michaele on Apr 28, 2024 6:22:10 GMT -8
Also, apparently there are some Loksound decoders that have bad components and fail as well. The messages I've read on other forums indicate that ESU admitted to receiving some components that were not up to spec. Particularly the voltage regulators used on some sound decoders, and mainly the Next18 micro. I've had three of these fail in less than a two year period. Other ESU Loksound decoders do not seem to be affected. For the two locomotives I have that require a Next18 header, I have switched to Zimo. Until ESU figures this out, or they can guarantee that the sub-standard components have been eliminated, I will be buying DCC ready locomotives that require a Next18 decoder and installing my own from Zimo. |
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Post by selector on Apr 29, 2024 12:12:44 GMT -8
I have mostly steam, mostly BLI, and would say they're usually quite good. They have had bad periods, notably the Paragon 2 and Paragon 3 eras, say from 2011-2019 or so. Mostly decoder and pickup problems. Their Paragon 4 steamers are a distinct improvement due to the caps, which leads me to suspect that BLI could never solve their decoder problems. BLI's Hybrid models are really world class. Maybe not as detailed as 'real' brass, but pretty darned solid. Don't own any diesels by them.
My first ever HO diesel was a gift from another person. It was a P2K Fa2-FB2 set, with the B unpowered. I thought it was a nice model, but it did develop a cracked gear sometime time during storage over the past three years (I go two/three years without seeing the same loco because I rotate roads and locomotives...takes me that long to get back to the beginning of the line again).
My first purchase of a diesel was an Atlas Master Gold FM H-24-66 from around 2004-ish. I LOVE that model. It has never given me a lick of difficulty, runs like a top, very nicely proportioned and detailed for non-brass, and it includes a still-running QSI decoder (I still have 7 QSI's still out of an original 8.)
Other diesels include several Genesis (a recent SD-70ACe in CPR Desert, and their GP9 from about a year-plus back, really, really nice...top drawer. A P2K SW-8 with QSI from 2006, still running, A Rapido RS-18 from three/four years back. They all run really well, and their detail is good, with Rapido and Genesis being on top. Oh, almost forgot, an Atlas Silver RS-3 in CPR livery...really good.
It should come as no surprise that steam locos offer the most fits and troubles. It's just their complexity. I never have to worry about a thing when I put a diesel on the tracks to play. Steam requires attention, and occasionally some fiddling.
BTW, and it's just nitpicking, none of the companies listed, except maybe Bowser (?) are manufacturers. They're importers. They specify what they want, and a Korean or Chinese, occasionally a Japanese, factory fills their order. If there is one company that has been transparent about QA, it is Rapido. They've had some problems, but they'll tell you when they understand, sometimes 'finally', that something is not right.
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