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Post by cpr4200 on May 3, 2024 10:01:39 GMT -8
Trainz.com posts many groups of miscellaneous freight cars for sale. Usually there's a bunch of less desirable stuff and one or two good pieces. Well, I hit the jackpot this week.
For $89 I got (no boxes):
2 Red Caboose MEC R70-15. Perfect except for bowed running boards. 1 Walthers troop kitchen car. Perfect 1 Atlas REA express reefer. Perfect. 2 Tangent LV Bethlehem gons. Perfect, except no couplers on one. 1 Exactrail LV covered hopper. Perfect. 1 Athearn MEC 5347 boxcar, new tooling. Perfect except two missing stirrups. 1 Intermountain Erie 40' PS-1. Perfect except two missing stirrups. 1 Walthers undec side dump car. Perfect, missing underbody detail. 1 Athearn MEC 40' boxcar, 8' door. Couldn't tell from tiny photo online, thought it might be Atlas. 1 each Trainline and Accurail twin hoppers 1 Athearn/Bev-Bel-ish 50' gon
Nine high end freight cars for $90 bucks is a pretty good score. Couldn't see in photos that the side dump was missing so many parts, but I can still use it. ~ Walt
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Post by tony on May 3, 2024 10:19:27 GMT -8
You have to be careful in your purchase at trainz.com, such as, things marked as Condition: Factory New (C-9), but have broken and or missing detail parts.
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Post by cpr4200 on May 3, 2024 10:26:48 GMT -8
You bet. Some of their "list prices" are pretty outlandish. But if you're careful and know what you're looking at, you can get some good deals.
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Post by prr 4467 on May 3, 2024 10:29:51 GMT -8
They are at the mercy of the accuracy and/or inaccuracy of the inventory lists prepared by the sellers prior to sending the trains TO Trainz for sale. Obviously, they check everything they get, but NOT everybody is scrupulously honest in describing the items sent in, so some junk can slip through their check-in process.
They have sold 5 or 6 shipments of model trains that I have sent them within the last year and they were great with me.
I just bought a decently painted and decently lightly weathered Sunset HO brass PRR H-25 hopper car from them at a good price for what it is. Also, they have several different people or project teams so some items may get priced better than others.
Real world example: I just sold 2 very lightly used Genesis SD45-2's on ebay along with 2 Mint, absolutely like new Atlas U30C's. I allowed people to bid rather than using buy it now, and I offered free shipping because most do and that is what ebay very strongly encourages. The items didn't do so well. The fact that I had just about $1000 invested in the 4 locos doesn't matter; what matters is what they can sell for today. My net return after ebay fees and actual shipping charges for the 4 diesels is about $480 which ebay is holding for more than 10 days because they can. Had I sent those items to Trainz, they would have actually allowed me about the same as what I actually netted on Ebay for them. Then Trainz likely would have set a higher buy it now price--but people trust them and will buy from them at their higher price point, who will not trust me the small-time seller to buy the same item from me.
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Post by packer on May 3, 2024 10:31:55 GMT -8
You have to be careful in your purchase at trainz.com, such as, things marked as Condition: Factory New (C-9), but have broken and or missing detail parts. ^This. Definetly go through the photos, but heir prices are all over the place. I wound up with an inexpensive Fujiyama/PFM Z-5 that was advertised as in good condition but not running, just missing two of the reversers and some pump under the cab. Actually did run when I oiled the motor, but then they had an intermountain R70-20 reefer at almost MSRP with busted stirrups at the same time. |
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Post by cpr4200 on May 3, 2024 10:44:18 GMT -8
Sometimes they'll have two identical items practically listed side by side at wildly different prices. Not complaining! I buy a lot from them.
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Post by simulatortrain on May 3, 2024 11:14:13 GMT -8
I've found that that you're good if you get things they sell in a box. For the lots I usually have to spend a while figuring out what chunks go to which car. Not sure they are selling stuff that isn't at described, more that they put everything in a pile and wrap a little bit of bubble wrap around it.
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Post by hudsonyard on May 3, 2024 14:55:21 GMT -8
I browse through both trainz and modeltrainmarket pretty often, deals to be had if you dig enough. Some real headscratchers too.
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Post by cpr4200 on May 3, 2024 16:38:57 GMT -8
Modeltrainmarket seems generally overpriced to me.
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Post by hudsonyard on May 3, 2024 18:19:27 GMT -8
Modeltrainmarket seems generally overpriced to me.
Definitely, i think its more "collector" oriented pricing. I got a good laugh out of them selling a 5 pack of bluebox CNJ hoppers for something absurd like 75 dollars. I think i got the same set of cars from a swap meet for 20 dollars. Maybe I need to get into the hopper flipping business.
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Post by tony on May 3, 2024 20:51:18 GMT -8
Here's a good one - see if you can find a better deal:
JTC Model Trains 405092M N CMA Carrying Cars & Advanced Steel Pack B Original Price $999.00
Discounted to: $35.06
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Post by tony on May 3, 2024 20:58:39 GMT -8
Here's another good one:
Athearn 4168 HO Scale Conrail SD45 Powered Diesel Locomotive #6127 NIB (blue box) - Original Price: $359.99
Discounted to: $80.14
I'm somewhere between this is a Scam and this is Stupid People.
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Post by richardthomasatal on May 4, 2024 4:56:09 GMT -8
They have zero moral character and mis categorize things all the time. I told my wife and three daughters that they are not to sell my collection to them in the event of my passing under any circumstances. I am so passionate about this I am considering adding it in writing.
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Post by bnsf971 on May 4, 2024 5:29:03 GMT -8
I find as long as I examine the included photos and descriptions carefully, I don't get any unpleasant surprises from them.
I see some people are continuing their record of only posting negativity.
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Post by prr 4467 on May 4, 2024 7:49:20 GMT -8
richardthomasatal--
Everybody makes mistakes in their Ebay listings, all the time, and of course I find them and make them myself, but Trainz' plethora of photos in each listing reveals the truth. Photos don't lie.
The brass dealers actually pay cents on the dollar of what brass models are worth. I cannot speak for brasstrains who actually is very reputable, but some of the others. One allegedly reputable famous brass dealer paid 38 cents on the dollar for more than $50,000 in mint HO brass models. I had to help the girlfriend with that collection; I was there when the dealer came and checked through every box with him, so I had a list of each and every item. His value assessment matched mine to within $2,000, but his offer to her was the 38 cents on the dollar.
Good luck to anybody who thinks their family can get more than 50 cents on the dollar for their used trains after they are gone. You are absolutely dreaming. I know people who had over a million dollars in mostly Lionel and American Flyer trains, and the deceased's "friends" bilked the better items out of the wife for just pennies on the dollar. She never got anywhere close to half a million dollars for the collection as a result. She spent nearly her entire adult life in the model train business, over 60 years, and if SHE (the math and money person in the family business) can get ripped off by the husband's "friends" then your estate will, too.
There are a lot of costs involved in liquidating model train collections and it takes time to do that. Time is money, and they are in business to make a profit. Trainz is far better than most dealers in the business. They come to you in person if the collection is big enough, and I believe in those instances they pay on the spot, and they take care of the shipping out of their end of the sale. You don't pay for shipping in any case.
Shipping adds another 10% to the cost right there, in most cases today. Trainz has never been anything but honest with me. My buddy is a train dealer and HE said they were doing well by me with what they allowed me and how fast I've been paid. I sent them my models that were just not selling here in my friend's store that had set for a couple years.
Good luck with your collection.
Like anybody else I find deals in Trainz' listings on ebay and I do also buy from them. No disappointments yet.
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Post by Baikal on May 4, 2024 14:55:57 GMT -8
...The brass dealers actually pay cents on the dollar of what brass models are worth... Good luck to anybody who thinks their family can get more than 50 cents on the dollar for their used trains after they are gone...
You mean the dealers offer what may or may not be "cents on the dollar". If two parties make a deal, the price they agree on is literally what the item is worth.
This is called "offer and acceptance" and it's how contracts work and how value is determined.
If a potential seller doesn't like the offer they can walk away.
Don't be the guy with the rusty '83 Chevy Citation on concrete blocks holding out for "what it's worth". Or the guys that go to multiple train swap meets with the same depreciating tyco junk who can't understand why people won't pay at least what they did when the items were new.
The problem with selling models is advertising their availability to a large enough number of potential buyers in order to creat a true market. There doesn't seem to be a simple way to maximize the proceeds. I'm not happy with any method, including eBay. Especially with the hassle of packing & shipping and high shipping costs.
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Post by cpr4200 on May 4, 2024 15:23:03 GMT -8
Yet ebay's search function is much better than trying to find something on a half dozen FB sales pages and I'm guessing has the largest audience. Seems like it, anyway. If I'm not mistaken they take a percentage of everything including shipping and sales tax? THAT's ridiculous.
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Post by cpr4200 on May 4, 2024 15:59:19 GMT -8
Here's another good one: Athearn 4168 HO Scale Conrail SD45 Powered Diesel Locomotive #6127 NIB (blue box) - Original Price: $359.99 Discounted to: $80.14 I'm somewhere between this is a Scam and this is Stupid People. Here's a $359.99 BB SD40-2 to go with your SD45 for only $62.36:
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Post by cera2254 on May 4, 2024 17:06:25 GMT -8
Yet ebay's search function is much better than trying to find something on a half dozen FB sales pages and I'm guessing has the largest audience. Seems like it, anyway. If I'm not mistaken they take a percentage of everything including shipping and sales tax? THAT's ridiculous. I think the fees on shipping at least was because people would list an item for a very low price with super high shipping to get around paying the higher fee, so this was eBay’s response. |
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Post by cpr4200 on May 4, 2024 19:32:26 GMT -8
Could be. Some folks still charge exorbitant shipping.
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Post by lvrr325 on May 4, 2024 19:34:23 GMT -8
These places are businesses and when they buy a collection they need to pay a price at which they can profit on the fast turnover.
When you buy everything and don't cherry pick, you are going to come away with low value pieces, slow selling pieces, and a lot of broken garbage. That has to be figured into the offer price. It still has to be inventoried, packed, shipped, examined and it's value determined whether the item is worth $500 or $5. A certain percentage will turn over within the first 30 days. After that it starts to take up space if nothing else. I can toss things on eBay good until cancelled and if they run for years so be it, I only have a few hundred listings up and most of it takes up 15 feet of floor to ceiling shelf space plus a stack of boxes in the basement. If I had to rent the space to keep them, then I'd have my investment increasing monthly even if just a storage unit, or if I bought a property there's taxes, utilities etc. -
I think some of the strange pricing you see comes from them hiring non-train people to do some of that work. A train guy knows a blue box SD40-2 with the side lugs is worth $50 tops. Suzy from the accounting pool doesn't know an SD40 from a Big Boy.
One of the reasons eBay fees are on the entire amount is because they handle the electronic transaction and the fees for those, to them, are on the total amount. Just like when your local store runs a credit card, they pay a fee on that. Where I think eBay is unfair is they put the same nearly zero effort into your item whether it sells for a dollar or a thousand dollars. The eBay fee probably should be a percentage of the sale after the transaction fees.
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Post by prr 4467 on May 4, 2024 20:25:50 GMT -8
...The brass dealers actually pay cents on the dollar of what brass models are worth... Good luck to anybody who thinks their family can get more than 50 cents on the dollar for their used trains after they are gone...
You mean the dealers offer what may or may not be "cents on the dollar". If two parties make a deal, the price they agree on is literally what the item is worth.
This is called "offer and acceptance" and it's how contracts work and how value is determined.
If a potential seller doesn't like the offer they can walk away.
Don't be the guy with the rusty '83 Chevy Citation on concrete blocks holding out for "what it's worth". Or the guys that go to multiple train swap meets with the same depreciating tyco junk who can't understand why people won't pay at least what they did when the items were new.
The problem with selling models is advertising their availability to a large enough number of potential buyers in order to creat a true market. There doesn't seem to be a simple way to maximize the proceeds. I'm not happy with any method, including eBay. Especially with the hassle of packing & shipping and high shipping costs. My valuations were spot on and definitely not over-valued. I was actually with the guy when he acquired some of the models, as an assistant helping with the buying (then we took them home and ran them on his large layout). This was NOT a case of the seller somehow "over-estimating" the fair market value of models. I knew exactly what they were worth at street price before the dealer saw or touched the models, but I was not in a position to buy them and sell them myself (was a low-paid public employee at the time). When it comes to selling collections, the family members left to do the selling usually are not privy to all the ins and outs of model trains and the dealers willing to pay cash for models, so they are at a disadvantage and typically do not know that there might be other options available to them or else might not have the time to pursue those other options. I just got an earful about this particular topic from a retired brass dealer, who happened to name the very brass dealer I've referenced above, who is now deceased, as having lowballed some others far below 38 cents on the dollar. It seems we did better than some. At least I've gotten to see and actually play with a lot of cool trains even if I didn't own many of them for myself. We had an informal club where brass was routinely operated on a big layout on Saturday nights. I was by far the youngest member and wish I'd learned more from the guys before some of them passed on. JP Barger (of Reboxx) even attended several Saturday evening running sessions (the main guy bought a lot of boxes and a lot of wheelsets). |
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Post by Baikal on May 5, 2024 4:44:33 GMT -8
You mean the dealers offer what may or may not be "cents on the dollar". If two parties make a deal, the price they agree on is literally what the item is worth.
This is called "offer and acceptance" and it's how contracts work and how value is determined.
If a potential seller doesn't like the offer they can walk away.
Don't be the guy with the rusty '83 Chevy Citation on concrete blocks holding out for "what it's worth". Or the guys that go to multiple train swap meets with the same depreciating tyco junk who can't understand why people won't pay at least what they did when the items were new.
The problem with selling models is advertising their availability to a large enough number of potential buyers in order to creat a true market. There doesn't seem to be a simple way to maximize the proceeds. I'm not happy with any method, including eBay. Especially with the hassle of packing & shipping and high shipping costs. My valuations were spot on and definitely not over-valued...
That's exactly what the guys with cars on concrete block for sale for six years say. Everyone else is wrong, they don't realize what I put into this, etc.
Many take it personally and would rather take their stuff to the grave than make a sale for less than they think something is worth.
You say your valuations were "spot on" yet the stuff didn't sell. Do you see the problem with that?
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Post by ncrc5315 on May 5, 2024 6:23:21 GMT -8
I used to see this all the time in the cattle business, guy would bitch about a buyer "cheating" him, because the market was up, and the buyer didn't give him the higher price. Did you call another buyer, check with another packer? It's an adversarial relationship, the cattle buyer is trying to buy enough cattle to keep the kill floor full, for the least amount of dollars. The sooner you realize, that while he might be a nice guy, he is not your friend, the better your life will be. It is the same with any other transaction. The price for an item, is what the buyer is willing to pay, and the seller is willing to accept, at that moment.
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Post by prr 4467 on May 5, 2024 8:54:05 GMT -8
Baikal--
It appears you are confusing what I wrote in posts above regarding selling PLASTIC models locally, then selling some that didn't sell readily through Trainz, with my later anecdotal story about selling a brass collection. I'm sorry if this was confusing for you to read.
The guy didn't pay 38 cents on the dollar for brass models that were just sitting around unsold, though for reasons that shouldn't be discussed here, the guy had to sell--rather his girlfriend had to sell them on his behalf as he was incapacitated from doing so at the time.
When pricing brass models for my friend's collection, I absolutely DID NOT simply make up inflated values out of thin air as perhaps for some rusty old car on blocks in the yard. Instead, I thoroughly researched the model prices online and in print to make sure the lady had a good idea of the actual street values at the time. My valuations were correct; I was able to track the models on the dealer's website and they sold pretty quickly at the higher price point.
There is such a thing as making a fair profit, and then there is taking advantage of people. Buyers who only pay 10% of fair market value--and some of them are--are taking advantage of people.
Unlike with cattle sales, model train sale prices thankfully do not change quite as readily. Yes, the prices of lower to middle grade brass model trains have come down a good bit, reflecting the features they do not have that today's buyers might want, but the prices of the best quality models seemingly only go up. I've seen some brass models double in value in as little as two years, recently, and sell at that higher price point (not sit around). PFM Crowns were once "the gold standard" but have been thoroughly eclipsed by later models that have features which appeal to today's buyers: LED lights, good quality factory paint, dcc most of all, and in some cases even sound. Those older engines, which have dropped so much in price, have none of those features on them.
Since this thread is or should be really about Trainz, my opinion is that they are doing a pretty decent job and are representing models fairly for the most part (knowing that mistakes do happen) and they are getting the prices they are asking, for the most part. The prices Trainz is paying to the sellers so far as I am aware are actually very fair; I cannot complain about getting 50% of fair market value when I haven't wanted to deal with Ebay and the need for record keeping for tax purposes.
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Post by surlyknuckle on May 5, 2024 10:04:54 GMT -8
I've had both great and not so great experiences buying from them.... I think they have slightly more consistent views/pricing on O gauge trains than HO but...
The not great:
-Using repeat photos of items, leading me to believe I was purchasing a new-in-box item (was important to me on this particular item) but what showed up was a used and assembled kit (which I could not use).
-Shipped two engines in a large cardboard box with NO packing material. It was just two locomotive boxes floating around in a larger box which resulted in some (luckily superficial) damage to my items.
The great:
-A 50% refund on the previously mentioned damaged engine...which again, turned out to be nothing too serious and was easily fixed.
- I have found several items priced pretty unbelievably low...$15 Genesis freight cars, some $20 Athearn blue box engines for the collection...better deals than I've found at Springfield or Timonium lately.
I agree on the whole...buyer beware with them. If you use your nose, it can be rewarding.
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Post by prr 4467 on May 5, 2024 12:40:40 GMT -8
I've had Trainworld throw an Athearn Genesis SP non-streamlined 4-8-2 inside a shipping box with NO paper, no packing, no nothing so it could slide all over inside the shipping carton, with significant damage to the cab roof (broken) and other parts of the engine. I tried to repair it as best I could (they were utterly gone elsewhere) but was never happy with the model, so sold it for a loss.
I have never purchased any items from Trainworld in 8 years or so since. There also were previous issues every time I ever bought from them, including them misrepresenting model condition on expensive large scale LGB locos, as well as misrepresenting which version the one was (newer version much less likely to have gear failure--but they sent me the old one and said it was the new version)
With Trainz, they have some models at better prices than other dealers have the same thing, and I'm just waiting right now because I may be getting a factory refurbished brsss hybrid. If I don't get the hybrid, I'll take the deal on a steam loco that Trainz has up for sale now.
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Post by cpr4200 on May 5, 2024 13:07:05 GMT -8
I've only bought a few things from Train World. I have a reservation with them for a Rapido Hoboken Shore 44-tonner because they're one of the few places it's available. Usually get my new stuff from Lombard and Toy Train Heaven, used stuff from Trainz and ebay/FB sellers. Trainz charges sales tax on out of state orders, not sure that's legit. Lombard and TTH don't.
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Post by sd80mac on May 6, 2024 5:56:41 GMT -8
I've bought a few things from them over the years but as others have said, you have to be careful and really look at what you're bidding on. I bought a "Centralia Car shops" UP CA-3 caboose from them a while back. It turned out to be a Trix CA-3 in a Centralia box! Also a nice model, but not what I wanted. I was able to return it with no hassle, FWIW.
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Post by richardthomasatal on May 6, 2024 10:14:34 GMT -8
richardthomasatal-- Everybody makes mistakes in their Ebay listings, all the time, and of course I find them and make them myself, but Trainz' plethora of photos in each listing reveals the truth. Photos don't lie. The brass dealers actually pay cents on the dollar of what brass models are worth. I cannot speak for brasstrains who actually is very reputable, but some of the others. One allegedly reputable famous brass dealer paid 38 cents on the dollar for more than $50,000 in mint HO brass models. I had to help the girlfriend with that collection; I was there when the dealer came and checked through every box with him, so I had a list of each and every item. His value assessment matched mine to within $2,000, but his offer to her was the 38 cents on the dollar. Good luck to anybody who thinks their family can get more than 50 cents on the dollar for their used trains after they are gone. You are absolutely dreaming. I know people who had over a million dollars in mostly Lionel and American Flyer trains, and the deceased's "friends" bilked the better items out of the wife for just pennies on the dollar. She never got anywhere close to half a million dollars for the collection as a result. She spent nearly her entire adult life in the model train business, over 60 years, and if SHE (the math and money person in the family business) can get ripped off by the husband's "friends" then your estate will, too. There are a lot of costs involved in liquidating model train collections and it takes time to do that. Time is money, and they are in business to make a profit. Trainz is far better than most dealers in the business. They come to you in person if the collection is big enough, and I believe in those instances they pay on the spot, and they take care of the shipping out of their end of the sale. You don't pay for shipping in any case. Shipping adds another 10% to the cost right there, in most cases today. Trainz has never been anything but honest with me. My buddy is a train dealer and HE said they were doing well by me with what they allowed me and how fast I've been paid. I sent them my models that were just not selling here in my friend's store that had set for a couple years. Good luck with your collection. Like anybody else I find deals in Trainz' listings on ebay and I do also buy from them. No disappointments yet. It's not about valuation, it's about the people who lead the company for me and how they handle their business. There are other avenues that will get close enough to their valuation or more for me to consider it close enough. My collection is not what my family will have to rely on to continue anyway so I can afford to be selective with model train estate handlers. |
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