Long interview with Craig Fuller about Kalmbach

[Christian]

It's on Patterson's What's Neat for May 18. Interesting that Craig Fuller did a major interview on MRH, a competitor.



H8ters are going to h8. Lurvers are going to lurve.

I'm neither. If you can blank your mind to Patterson's endless self-promotion and David Popp's bobblehead there is a lot to learn from this interview. Last year, Fuller made 60+ million net profit from his magazines. His company is capitalized at over 200 million. And, I had to rewind to make sure I heard correctly, he has one billion dollars in family investment funds available.

The most encouraging comments from Fuller were that he knows how to engage kids. Fuller is younger than I expected. He has five children and knows what he is talking about. Those comments are late in the interview.

[riogrande]

Watched that yesterday morning. Sounds like MR magazine will see improvements but expect it to take a year or two to visibly show improvements.

Yeah, he has kids ranging from a around 3 years old to one finishing high school shortly. He is a pilot as well. Seems smart and on the ball and savvy about what needs to be done and feels that print media can still be successful if done right.

[ictom]

Model Railroader as a Coffee Table Book?

[thmy]

This obviously wasn't well researched and will result in a financial loss for freightwaves. Print isn't dead but many of MR and Trains subscribers are entering their graves in large numbers. Then they go on the YouTube channel with the oldest audience to preach to the choir wherever they can get past Ken Patterson's begging for a job and self promo behaviors. This was obviously a decision made because Craig has an interest in trains. If I was a backer I'd be livid at this sure to fail business venture.

[jbilbrey]

May 21, 2024 10:03:45 GMT -8 ictom said:

Model Railroader as a Coffee Table Book?

LOL, I certainly can understand that reference.  I probably have a year's worth of Railroad Model Craftsman stacked up on our den's coffee table.  I also have a recent (2023) issue of Model Railroader.  In addition to the issue being shorter - about 20 pages less, it just feels "cheap" when compared to a RMC issue.  The paper that the pages are printed on is thinner and more matt.  Yet, they both have the same news-stand price of $7.99.  IMHO, improving the quality (what it is printed on) and quantity (what is printed on the pages) will go a long way in improving Model Railroader beyond a 50-page advertisement for model railroad manufacturers.  Yet, these improvements will cost money and create short-term losses that the new owner is talking about before gains are seen in the increase in circulation. 

I grew up with Model Railroader in the house; it was always a rush between my dad and me as to who would get to the month's issue the first in the mailbox.  He would buy copies of Railroad Model Craftsman from time to time.  But, times have changed.  I am now the dad.  My son, who is into model railroads, doesn't "fight" me for the latest issue.  Instead he prefers to either see the prototype trains or visit a vlogger's Youtube channel.  I now keep a subscription to Railroad Model Craftsman and will thumb through the latest issues of Model Railroader at my dad's since he holds that subscription.  Magazines are also shifting.  We used to depend on the magazines for the announcement of new products or when there is a local train show.  But, that type of news has shifted to the Internet and FB.  Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman used to be filled with articles on painting and kitbashing.  Now, wait a few months (or a few years), and manufacturer may release a model of the exact prototype that you are wanting to model.  
 
Time will tell if we'll see a resurgence of Model Railroader, like we have seen with Railroad Model Craftsman, or if the magazine will eventually go the way of Mainline Modeler, Model Railroading, and  Railmodel Journal.  My magic eight ball is cloudy right now.  I commend the new owner on his enthusiasm, but I also recognize that he may be a bit naive - being largely new to the hobby of model railroading.  I also feel that change can be good.  But, that desire for change has to be felt at all levels of an organization - from the printers to the editor and the owner. 

Lastly, there is a certain level of coincidence that I am seeing.  The NMRA is based near Chattanooga.  One of the large model distributors (after acquiring another mail-order company's name following its bankruptcy) has announced moving its warehouse to Ringold, GA - just outside Chattanooga.  Now, Model Railroader, FineScale Modeler, and other former Kalmbach publications are being bought by an individual in the Chattanooga area.  There are other manufacturers and distributors also located in the general area.  I am not saying this is all connected, but I am seeing a lessening of the influence that the Upper Midwest area has had on these hobbies with a possible shift to the Southeast.

[hudsonyard]

MR or RMC could greatly benefit from a younger, knowledgeable person writing about more modern operations and how to capture it on a layout. I love Jerry's articles every month but just how many 24 year olds want to learn how to write the body of a train order? Gotta get the hooks in these kids before this hobby goes full three-rail mentality.

[crblue]

May 21, 2024 11:47:03 GMT -8 thmy said:

This obviously wasn't well researched and will result in a financial loss for freightwaves. Print isn't dead but many of MR and Trains subscribers are entering their graves in large numbers. Then they go on the YouTube channel with the oldest audience to preach to the choir wherever they can get past Ken Patterson's begging for a job and self promo behaviors. This was obviously a decision made because Craig has an interest in trains. If I was a backer I'd be livid at this sure to fail business venture.

Or maybe he has an idea on how to get it to succeed.

I've been in model railroading for decades, and don't find MRR useful as a magazine at all. At best they have reviews of models that came out months ago, and at worst showcase layouts that I'd need to be a millionaire before I could begin to incorporate ideas into my own layout. Youtube is better for timely reviews, and MRR will gloss over any problems.

I haven't seen a good 4x8 project layout in a very long time, much less anything in depth on T-Trak, which is taking the N scale world by storm.

Their website is not so great to navigate, their forum dying.

There's a lot of things that can be done to fix the current situation.

[Baikal]

May 22, 2024 5:20:14 GMT -8 crblue said:

May 21, 2024 11:47:03 GMT -8 thmy said:

This obviously wasn't well researched and will result in a financial loss for freightwaves. Print isn't dead but many of MR and Trains subscribers are entering their graves in large numbers. Then they go on the YouTube channel with the oldest audience to preach to the choir wherever they can get past Ken Patterson's begging for a job and self promo behaviors. This was obviously a decision made because Craig has an interest in trains. If I was a backer I'd be livid at this sure to fail business venture.

Or maybe he has an idea on how to get it to succeed.

I've been in model railroading for decades, and don't find MRR useful as a magazine at all. At best they have reviews of models that came out months ago, and at worst showcase layouts that I'd need to be a millionaire before I could begin to incorporate ideas into my own layout. Youtube is better for timely reviews, and MRR will gloss over any problems.

I haven't seen a good 4x8 project layout in a very long time, much less anything in depth on T-Trak, which is taking the N scale world by storm.

Their website is not so great to navigate, their forum dying.

There's a lot of things that can be done to fix the current situation.

More 4x8 layouts and T-TRAK would be moving even further in the direction MR has been heading for years (toward the Menards structures buyers).  This is not where RMC has been heading and is the opposite of what's seen in, say, Narrow Gauge & Shortline Gazette or most historical society publications.

I've wondered when the pendelum would swing back from the direction of the now 20+ year-old RPM (Railroad Prototype Modeler) movement, and what it would look like.  So far T-TRAK looks not-RPM.

and ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb86smRFUVI

etc.

There have to be some T-TRAK modules & layouts out there that could be classed as "prototype modeling".  I'd like to see some, esp as videos.  Links anyone?

[jonklein611]

www.trains.com/mrr/how-to/build-model-railroad/t-trak-project-part-8-ballast-backdrops-and-a-riverbed/

[crblue]

That's an example of a poor article! Replace T-Trak with TOMA, 4x8, or basement empire, and the content doesn't change; lets use some store bought ballast, 70% IPA, etc... that every single youtube tutorial covers.

This is pretty much the only discussion related to T-Trak specifically:

Brian: One of the things I liked about RS Laser Kits’ modules was that you could purchase skyboards for them. These come as a simple little kit, with a thin 1/16” piece of hardboard pre-cut and drilled to fit a standard single straight module. They even include the mounting hardware.

That's basically just a more expensive version of a jigsaw puzzle. What if you want to make your own skyboard? Where are the instructions? What options do I have? What is "Hardboard"? A basic search seems to suggest that it's MDF, but they call out MDF separately in the next paragraph.

David cut his own backdrops from ¼” MDF and used the RS Laser Kits’ mounting hardware to attach them to his double modules. He drilled the hole for the wiring harness using a 1-1/4” Forstner bit.

What is the RS Laser Kit mounting hardware? What size? Is the height a concern? Are there suggestions for hole placement?

What about the jacks on the front of the facia. Why are they even there? What sort of extension of the T-trak standard are they solving?

This sort is is exactly why I haven't bought a MRR in a long time. This article is their same generic scenery article but on a 12" x 24" module instead of a TOMA module.

Edit: Sorry, I'm maybe opinionated against MRR lately. This isn't directed at you JonK.

More edit: In part 7, scenery, there's no discussion on how to make scenery more secure for T-Trak's inherent portability.
Part 6: There's no discussion of it being T-Trak at all.
Part 4: They glossed over installing a DCC system into a module. IMO, that's just asking for trouble and not at all how clubs handle power.

I ran out of time, I'm done for now. But this ^^ is an example of what drives me nuts about MRR.

[hudsonyard]

The thumbnail on that T-trak video........woof.


That might be their hobby but it sure as shit isn't mine.

[wp8thsub]

May 22, 2024 8:28:37 GMT -8 Baikal said:

There have to be some T-TRAK modules & layouts out there that could be classed as "prototype modeling". I'd like to see some...

I'd settle for some that exhibit actual modeling skill. Absence thereof seems to be de rigueur for this segment. I realize that's harsh, but the ones I've seen in person haven't had many redeeming qualities.

[ictom]

May 21, 2024 14:06:41 GMT -8 jbilbrey said:

May 21, 2024 10:03:45 GMT -8 ictom said:

Model Railroader as a Coffee Table Book?

LOL, I certainly can understand that reference.  I probably have a year's worth of Railroad Model Craftsman stacked up on our den's coffee table.  I also have a recent (2023) issue of Model Railroader.  In addition to the issue being shorter - about 20 pages less, it just feels "cheap" when compared to a RMC issue.  The paper that the pages are printed on is thinner and more matt.  Yet, they both have the same news-stand price of $7.99.  IMHO, improving the quality (what it is printed on) and quantity (what is printed on the pages) will go a long way in improving Model Railroader beyond a 50-page advertisement for model railroad manufacturers.  Yet, these improvements will cost money and create short-term losses that the new owner is talking about before gains are seen in the increase in circulation. 

I grew up with Model Railroader in the house; it was always a rush between my dad and me as to who would get to the month's issue the first in the mailbox.  He would buy copies of Railroad Model Craftsman from time to time.  But, times have changed.  I am now the dad.  My son, who is into model railroads, doesn't "fight" me for the latest issue.  Instead he prefers to either see the prototype trains or visit a vlogger's Youtube channel.  I now keep a subscription to Railroad Model Craftsman and will thumb through the latest issues of Model Railroader at my dad's since he holds that subscription.  Magazines are also shifting.  We used to depend on the magazines for the announcement of new products or when there is a local train show.  But, that type of news has shifted to the Internet and FB.  Model Railroader and Railroad Model Craftsman used to be filled with articles on painting and kitbashing.  Now, wait a few months (or a few years), and manufacturer may release a model of the exact prototype that you are wanting to model.  
 
Time will tell if we'll see a resurgence of Model Railroader, like we have seen with Railroad Model Craftsman, or if the magazine will eventually go the way of Mainline Modeler, Model Railroading, and  Railmodel Journal.  My magic eight ball is cloudy right now.  I commend the new owner on his enthusiasm, but I also recognize that he may be a bit naive - being largely new to the hobby of model railroading.  I also feel that change can be good.  But, that desire for change has to be felt at all levels of an organization - from the printers to the editor and the owner. 

Lastly, there is a certain level of coincidence that I am seeing.  The NMRA is based near Chattanooga.  One of the large model distributors (after acquiring another mail-order company's name following its bankruptcy) has announced moving its warehouse to Ringold, GA - just outside Chattanooga.  Now, Model Railroader, FineScale Modeler, and other former Kalmbach publications are being bought by an individual in the Chattanooga area.  There are other manufacturers and distributors also located in the general area.  I am not saying this is all connected, but I am seeing a lessening of the influence that the Upper Midwest area has had on these hobbies with a possible shift to the Southeast.

Interesting insights - esp. RE: moves to the SE.  It was always puzzling how ScaleTrains ended up in that general area and I couldn't surmise the connection.  I still don't to a certain extent, especially the shipping situation ... Atlanta or Memphis with their UPS and FedEx connections would've seemed more likely.  NMRA has been in Chattanooga for quite a while and that never made much sense to me, either.  Now they've got enough move-ins that the origin doesn't really matter.  The gravity of the growing mass has become its own attraction. 

[thmy]

I don't see this ending well. Craig Fuller is the son of Max Fuller of US Express. His dad and his buddies fund lots of his ventures thus the large backing amounts and no doubt some have been successful.  That is the main reason you have Craig Fuller being somewhat successful.  But shooting ideas out like turning Model Railroader into a coffee table book or making it quarterly does not in any way result in a profitable product. I am glad they stayed the wolves from the magazines dying, especially Model Railroader but they just extended the life support for awhile longer until their backers realize this is a money losing venture. I'm glad people at those magazines are keeping their jobs a bit longer but I would be looking elsehwere to get my message out if I were a model train company because the magazines are on life support and expensive for advertising from what I hear.

[richardthomasatal]

Jun 2, 2024 8:52:21 GMT -8 thmy said:

I don't see this ending well. Craig Fuller is the son of Max Fuller of US Express. His dad and his buddies fund lots of his ventures thus the large backing amounts and no doubt some have been successful.  That is the main reason you have Craig Fuller being somewhat successful.  But shooting ideas out like turning Model Railroader into a coffee table book or making it quarterly does not in any way result in a profitable product. I am glad they stayed the wolves from the magazines dying, especially Model Railroader but they just extended the life support for awhile longer until their backers realize this is a money losing venture. I'm glad people at those magazines are keeping their jobs a bit longer but I would be looking elsehwere to get my message out if I were a model train company because the magazines are on life support and expensive for advertising from what I hear.

   
  To sum up your post sounds like it's daddy's money that got him to where he is.  I agree its just a delayed eventual death.

[Colin 't Hart]

Another example of making a small fortune by starting with a large fortune?

[cpr4200]

How the tables have turned. Used to be that MR had a higher page count, glossy paper, and color inside the mag, while RMC used cheap, uncoated paper in the 60's, had no interior color, smaller trim size, and lower page count. Not to mention inferior layout, drafting, writing and editing. MR's ads have always been expensive, but once upon a time they had the circulation to justify it.

IMO the only Kalmbach mag worth looking at now is Classic Trains.

[lvrr325]

There is at least one MR in the bathroom stack, which ends about two years ago when the grocery store we go to eliminated magazines, that has an article where the staff at MR all built some T-track modules.

T-track is just modular using a specific track and size, they didn't reinvent the wheel, at 18x12 or whatever it is you can build it any way you want including with concrete and it would still be portable.

MR already had the quarterly books, or annual books, like Model Railroad Planning.

Magazines always made the money with the advertising. When the ads go away so does the magazine. The better the circulation the more they can get for the ads. That's why you could subscribe to them for not a whole lot more than the postage cost to mail them to you. That's why a small mag like Railpace before the current owner had very little discount in the subscription price - fewer ads in it and a relatively small circulation. No idea what they get now.

[Baikal]

Jun 7, 2024 15:30:45 GMT -8 lvrr325 said:

Magazines always made the money with the advertising. When the ads go away so does the magazine. The better the circulation the more they can get for the ads. That's why you could subscribe to them for not a whole lot more than the postage cost to mail them to you. That's why a small mag like Railpace before the current owner had very little discount in the subscription price - fewer ads in it and a relatively small circulation. No idea what they get now.

I always figured that too as I'm sure it's how newspapers survive(d).  But how to explain the historical societies magazines with no ads except self-promotion ones?  For example my Spring 2024 UP Streamliner is 40 pages, all color, heavy paper, and full of useful info.  $10 cover price.

Or White River's Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette at 100 all-color, heavy glossy pages. About 14 pages have non-White River ads, each averaging about 1/2 page of ad, 1/2 of content.  The back cover P-B-L (Sn3 brass) ad is usually suitable for framing!  They always showcase some really excellent modeling & photography.  About 10 pages have White River Publishing ads. 10 pages of drawings(!) in the May/June issue.  $12 cover price.  I'm not even a narrow gauge modeler and I find the mag useful & interesting.

July MR is $8 for 68 pages of thinner, cheaper paper.

I don't mind most ads as many can be a source of information.  I used to like going over the old tiny-print America's Hobby Center 2-page ads.  Today I can do without the full-page Menards ads featuring structures that belong on a Lego layout.

I like MR, have been a subscriber off & on since the mid-70s.  I hope they rebound like RMC did.  More than one mainstream modeling mag is needed.

[jeoffreythecat]

"But how to explain the historical societies magazines with no ads except self-promotion ones? For example my Spring 2024 UP Streamliner is 40 pages, all color, heavy paper, and full of useful info. $10 cover price."

Historical societies for the most part are purely volunteer operations. If you're not paying salaries and benefits, it does tend to cut down on the production costs.

You're never going to have a 200-page MR chock full of ads. The display ads and classifieds have migrated to the internet.

[cpr4200]

Those full-page Menards ads are helping pay the bills, don't forget. Kind of like the chintzy Dale Earnhardt or whatever "collectible train" ads of days gone by.

[Baikal]

Jun 8, 2024 7:47:25 GMT -8 cpr4200 said:

Those full-page Menards ads are helping pay the bills, don't forget. Kind of like the chintzy Dale Earnhardt or whatever "collectible train" ads of days gone by.

So how's that been working out for them?

[Baikal]

Jun 8, 2024 3:40:25 GMT -8 jeoffreythecat said:

"But how to explain the historical societies magazines with no ads except self-promotion ones? For example my Spring 2024 UP Streamliner is 40 pages, all color, heavy paper, and full of useful info. $10 cover price."

Historical societies for the most part are purely volunteer operations. If you're not paying salaries and benefits, it does tend to cut down on the production costs.

You're never going to have a 200-page MR chock full of ads. The display ads and classifieds have migrated to the internet.

True about historical societies & volunteers = low costs.

But how does Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette produce a high-quality, low ad mag every issue?  It reminds me of the defunct Mainline Modeler or Model Railroading mags or some of the military / ship / aircraft / foreign modeler magazines (of which there are many).

Is it because NG&SLG is a "niche" magzine?  Do paper mags have to become more specialized to survive in the internet era?  Lots of "general interest" paper mags have folded as people seek out (usually free) online info and entertainment.

And what are the pros & cons of focusing on "beginner" types vs. more advanced modelers?

Everything MR has been doing in the last 5-10 years needs to be evaluated for benefits/costs because they clearly have been doing something(s) wrong.

What do people suggest MR change?

[ST974]

Jun 8, 2024 9:58:17 GMT -8 Baikal said:

Jun 8, 2024 3:40:25 GMT -8 jeoffreythecat said:

"But how to explain the historical societies magazines with no ads except self-promotion ones? For example my Spring 2024 UP Streamliner is 40 pages, all color, heavy paper, and full of useful info. $10 cover price."

Historical societies for the most part are purely volunteer operations. If you're not paying salaries and benefits, it does tend to cut down on the production costs.

You're never going to have a 200-page MR chock full of ads. The display ads and classifieds have migrated to the internet.

True about historical societies & volunteers = low costs.

But how does Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette produce a high-quality, low ad mag every issue?  It reminds me of the defunct Mainline Modeler or Model Railroading mags or some of the military / ship / aircraft / foreign modeler magazines (of which there are many).

Is it because NG&SLG is a "niche" magzine?  Do paper mags have to become more specialized to survive in the internet era?  Lots of "general interest" paper mags have folded as people seek out (usually free) online info and entertainment.

And what are the pros & cons of focusing on "beginner" types vs. more advanced modelers?

Everything MR has been doing in the last 5-10 years needs to be evaluated for benefits/costs because they clearly have been doing something(s) wrong.

What do people suggest MR change?

  Model Railroader magazine better just prepare for maintaining a paid circulation of a few thousand people because that's where they are headed.  If they can squeak out a profit by publishing monthly they should continue to do so but their audience is going to and has already shrunk dramatically.  They also should re-evaluate advertising costs because my hobby shop said they were insanely high.  So they should offer more ad space per page instead of those large one page ads the out of touch companies are still paying for like Kato, Walthers and Bachmann.   Their leadership is still in the stone age so they are paying high amounts ad no matter what unless they can no longer afford to.

[cpr4200]

Jun 8, 2024 9:29:11 GMT -8 Baikal said:

Jun 8, 2024 7:47:25 GMT -8 cpr4200 said:

Those full-page Menards ads are helping pay the bills, don't forget. Kind of like the chintzy Dale Earnhardt or whatever "collectible train" ads of days gone by.

So how's that been working out for them?

Better than not having the revenue at all, no?

MR still seems to think they have six figure circulation as far as their ad rates go. Time to recalculate?

[Baikal]

Jun 13, 2024 14:52:46 GMT -8 cpr4200 said:

Jun 8, 2024 9:29:11 GMT -8 Baikal said:

So how's that been working out for them?

Better than not having the revenue at all, no?

Not much better or they wouldn't be in a downward spiral.  I think the Franklin Mint-type ads might have hurt MR in the long run by running off more advanced modelers.  The Menards "buildings" look like they are designed by someone who's never seen a real building.  Or maybe teh AI.

Whatever MR is doing it is not working.  My point C&P is how does NG&SLG produce a fine mag without the goofy full-page ads?:

"Or White River's Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette at 100 all-color, heavy glossy pages. About 14 pages have non-White River ads, each averaging about 1/2 page of ad, 1/2 of content. The back cover P-B-L (Sn3 brass) ad is usually suitable for framing! They always showcase some really excellent modeling & photography. About 10 pages have White River Publishing ads. 10 pages of drawings(!) in the May/June issue. $12 cover price. I'm not even a narrow gauge modeler and I find the mag useful & interesting."

[typhoon]

Jun 14, 2024 4:48:47 GMT -8 Baikal said:

Jun 13, 2024 14:52:46 GMT -8 cpr4200 said:

Better than not having the revenue at all, no?

Not much better or they wouldn't be in a downward spiral.  I think the Franklin Mint-type ads might have hurt MR in the long run by running off more advanced modelers.  The Menards "buildings" look like they are designed by someone who's never seen a real building.  Or maybe teh AI.

I doubt it was the adds that ran off anyone.  More likely the ease of finding much of the same information cheaper and more quickly via the inter webs.


I personally have not subscribed to a magazine in over a decade.  I doubt there is much that a magazine could do to get me to subscribe to them.   The time for them has past, and as the last generation that truly relied on them leaves us, they will continue to go away.

[bnsf971]

I used to buy MR at my LHS when I went to peruse/purchase my monthly allotment of model trains. In most cases, I could read the magazine, see the stuff that was advertised sitting on the shelves in front of me, and made my purchase decisions on what I saw/read. That slowed down when the stuff advertised as "new" or "coming soon" in the current issue had already been released, and was sold out. The articles went from things I was interested in and could relate to, into articles on how to connect track using rail joiners, or a random multi-million dollar basement empire. The final nail for me was when my LHS went away.
I think the only time I subscribed was when I found MR in my local Walmart, and it had an insanely cheap coupon for subscribing. When the subscription ran out, I didn't bother renewing.

[lvrr325]

The niche magazines had a higher subscription price, Railpace for example back in the 90s-00s you saved maybe 50 cents an issue to subscribe.

Also a smaller print run means you can put the money into paper and color and so forth. Maybe the overall cost to produce ends up being the same.

[grahamline]

Niche magazines generally didn't have large press overruns above their subscription level to cover newsstand/hobby shop sales. The rule of thumb, when titles like Model Railroading, Prototype Modeler and Mainline Modeler folded in the '90s, was that guaranteed sales had to be upwards of 5000 to attract much ad money. Society magazines with volunteer staff and a faithful following had a different set of rules.