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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 13, 2024 19:18:37 GMT -8
When I joined the NMRA in 1961, it cost $3. That is $31 now.
I joined mainly to support the Standards. I felt that I owed the organization a few bucks for rationalizing model railroading.
I wonder if anyone joins for that reason, today.
For various reasons, I declined to renew after a few years.
Ed
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Post by hudsonyard on Aug 13, 2024 19:41:35 GMT -8
Many clubs (the clubs in the twin cities were all like this) require 100 percent NMRA membership so they can get insurance through the national.
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Post by dti406 on Aug 14, 2024 4:22:41 GMT -8
Many clubs (the clubs in the twin cities were all like this) require 100 percent NMRA membership so they can get insurance through the national. If our club were to require 100% membership to get the insurance through the NMRA, then it would cost us twice what we pay through an insurance broker for our insurance. Rick Jesionowski |
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Post by prr 4467 on Aug 14, 2024 4:43:43 GMT -8
Sorry, but I just cannot see how the NMRA has been helpful at all.
When I was a student at PSU Altoona, I knew some locals (who worked on PRR 1361) who were NMRA members, but they certainly didn't make a very convincing argument as to why I should become a member. I read several issues of the NMRA magazine and was never impressed but got the opposite feeling instead.
So, they gave us some standards for dcc, after what it appears were many years of manufacturers basically doing what they wanted and the market then sorting things out? Gee, thanks. Doesn't seem very helpful.
I used to have large scale trains. The NMRA really wasn't very helpful at all regarding large scale trains and any form of standardization.
Maybe the NMRA was more useful over 50 years ago when Kadee created the HO scale knuckle coupler, but idk.
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Post by gevohogger on Aug 14, 2024 5:26:02 GMT -8
Maybe the NMRA was more useful over 50 years ago when Kadee created the HO scale knuckle coupler, but idk. That's the irony. The Kadee coupler was first developed 70+ years ago, in an era when the hobby had a myriad of different coupler types. Mantua, Baker... I am sure there were others. Those early Kadees weren't even magnetic, by the way, they used mechanical ramps to uncouple remotely. At some point, NMRA endorsed what is now known as the horn hook coupler, but soon distanced itself from it because it was such a poor design. It was cheap to make though and soon became standard on most new equipment for decades. In the meantime, the Kadee became the unofficial "standard" coupler even without any endorsement from the NMRA. Does anyone nowadays use anything other than a Kadee, a Kadee clone or a Sergent coupler? Not counting of course kids with train sets and horn hooks, and octogenarians still hanging onto their Baker couplers. |
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Post by gevohogger on Aug 14, 2024 5:41:34 GMT -8
I read several issues of the NMRA magazine and was never impressed but got the opposite feeling instead. Back when I was first starting in the hobby, someone on my parent's bowling team gave me a huge box containing about a decade's worth of NMRA Bulletin magazines. Even as a youngster I found the magazines startlingly cringy.... Endless jokes about outhouses and "privies", and dozens of cartoons about a clumsy, clueless new modeller named "Thumbs". Tons of space devoted to subjects I had no interest in, like members offering to trade free passes to their imaginary railroads. Ooooh, this ticket grants the bearer complimentary passage on the Wapakoneta, East Jabip & Pacific Railroad! Catch me before I swoon! |
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Aug 14, 2024 5:44:05 GMT -8
I joined for the Insurance which I don't really understand why you have to be a member to obtain. I guess it's like being a Farm Bureau member and having State Farm Insurance.
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Post by drolsen on Aug 14, 2024 7:10:12 GMT -8
While I’m not sure how many manufacturers still have a physical presence at the NMRA National Show, quite a few still made new product announcements that coincided with the show. A number of them are, of course, using Facebook as the medium for those announcements.
Dave
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Post by 12bridge on Aug 14, 2024 7:30:36 GMT -8
Maybe the NMRA was more useful over 50 years ago when Kadee created the HO scale knuckle coupler, but idk. That's the irony. The Kadee coupler was first developed 70+ years ago, in an era when the hobby had a myriad of different coupler types. Mantua, Baker... I am sure there were others. Those early Kadees weren't even magnetic, by the way, they used mechanical ramps to uncouple remotely. At some point, NMRA endorsed what is now known as the horn hook coupler, but soon distanced itself from it because it was such a poor design. It was cheap to make though and soon became standard on most new equipment for decades. In the meantime, the Kadee became the unofficial "standard" coupler even without any endorsement from the NMRA. Does anyone nowadays use anything other than a Kadee, a Kadee clone or a Sergent coupler? Not counting of course kids with train sets and horn hooks, and octogenarians still hanging onto their Baker couplers. Join any of the "Budget model railroading groups" (read: the majority of this hobby), and you will see the horn hook is alive and well. I am not an NMRA member, but I do see the local chapters (varies where you are of course..) seem to be making more of an effort to do RPM style events and getting away from the judged contests, as well as holding tours and stuff. I just gave a tour of the railroad I work at for a group of people a few months ago from one of the Midwest chapters. Everytime I need a laugh, I read the MMR requirements. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 14, 2024 11:47:21 GMT -8
The MMR thing has always seemed really strange. Even stranger when people put it after their name.
Another strange one was the "Trains on Stamps" competition, which I saw at a PCR convention years ago ('70's-'80's, ?). Now, I think a display of trains on stamps would be quite interesting to see. But to get an award because MY collection is better than YOUR collection? Really? It was won by some high-level NMRA official.
Ed
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Post by prr 4467 on Aug 14, 2024 12:18:00 GMT -8
I read several issues of the NMRA magazine and was never impressed but got the opposite feeling instead. Back when I was first starting in the hobby, someone on my parent's bowling team gave me a huge box containing about a decade's worth of NMRA Bulletin magazines. Even as a youngster I found the magazines startlingly cringy.... Endless jokes about outhouses and "privies", and dozens of cartoons about a clumsy, clueless new modeller named "Thumbs". Tons of space devoted to subjects I had no interest in, like members offering to trade free passes to their imaginary railroads. Ooooh, this ticket grants the bearer complimentary passage on the Wapakoneta, East Jabip & Pacific Railroad! Catch me before I swoon! Exactly what I remember. Well said indeed! I was 20 years old and there was nothing at all that could possibly make me want to join such a cringy group. Not in 1988 and not today. Regarding the whole MMR thing, there are some excellent model railroaders who are much better at it than I will ever be, but I have to jump through hoops just to maintain licensure for my livelihood (continuing education requirements that are no joke) and the idea of having to jump through hoops to obtain MMR certification just is very off-putting for me and always has been since the day I first read of that. I have learned a great deal from just maintaining HO locomotives, but also from forums like this where I was always challenged to do things "better" than yesterday. |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Aug 14, 2024 12:23:08 GMT -8
They're working on ratifying the LCC standard. Unfortunately all of the example code written by the authors of the protocol is using the GPL, so no company can use it in their products. The NMRA should encourage example code with a more business friendly license, but they aren't. Consequently, uptake is slow. Clarification: The GPL doesn't mean companies can't use the software in their products. It does mean they have to release the source code to the software and any modifications they make to it -- which does inhibit some manufacturers from using it, but it's not impossible. |
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Post by gevohogger on Aug 14, 2024 12:27:45 GMT -8
It was won by some high-level NMRA official. That's just like at our old club..... We had an annual club banquet every winter, and there were door prizes to be awarded. Expensive stuff, too, like a year's free dues or a $100 gift certificate to the local hobby shop. Without exception, the supposed "random" winners were always either club officers or members who had volunteered a LOT of time or who had given generously to the club. Never to a young person or newcomer to the hobby. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Aug 14, 2024 17:20:28 GMT -8
All convention centers have that union rule. Someone needed to plan better. It can be avoided. Picking a better hotel near easier display space is key. Someone must have been new at planning it. I do shows in NY state convention centers, the Expo center at the state Fairgrounds and the Great Train Extravaganza in the "Egg" in Albany and no union rules like that. Now at the Egg they tell me they have to get union guys to run cords for electricity even though there's outlets all over and when I need it I just plug in, but |
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Post by ambluco on Aug 14, 2024 17:30:58 GMT -8
I mean the big ones, like LA, Javits, etc. The Egg is a Performing Arts Center.
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Post by myoungwisc on Aug 18, 2024 6:26:23 GMT -8
I attended the National Train Show yesterday. I paid $25 for an advance ticket. The show was a bust with a couple of highlights. I arrived at 10:00 AM and left at 11:15 AM. Normally I would expect to spend spend several hours at the National Train Show. ... Overall, the Train show was very disappointing compared with previous shows I have attended. Jim - I had a very similar experience. |
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Post by cpr4200 on Aug 18, 2024 15:08:40 GMT -8
When I joined the NMRA in 1961, it cost $3. That is $31 now. Ed An inflation calculator says $3 in 1961 is $31.67 today. So they're right on target. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 18, 2024 15:58:26 GMT -8
When I joined the NMRA in 1961, it cost $3. That is $31 now. Ed An inflation calculator says $3 in 1961 is $31.67 today. So they're right on target. Yes, I used an inflation calculator to get the $31. NMRA dues are currently $92, if you get the magazine. I believe that my $3 got some sort of "bulletin", plus the annual booklet listing all members. And also various data sheets. So dues have tripled in that time. Ed |
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Post by cpr4200 on Aug 18, 2024 16:09:21 GMT -8
Ah. I thought you meant the dues are $31 now. $92 is ridiculous. My local club dropped the NMRA membership requirement. Not really "my" club since I haven't joined, but I'm thinking about it. They model Southern California and Cajon Pass, so my NH DL109's and CP Rail RS18's will look a little out of place. I'd probably enjoy a less specific layout more, but that's what's here.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Aug 18, 2024 16:59:59 GMT -8
Ah. I thought you meant the dues are $31 now. $92 is ridiculous. My local club dropped the NMRA membership requirement. Not really "my" club since I haven't joined, but I'm thinking about it. They model Southern California and Cajon Pass, so my NH DL109's and CP Rail RS18's will look a little out of place. I'd probably enjoy a less specific layout more, but that's what's here. If you like the people and the place, I recommend picking up some SP/Santa Fe stuff, so that you can "play with the other guys" when it's appropriate. And other times run your favorite stuff, just because. Yeah, the scenery will be all wrong, but..... My local Free-mo guys do mostly California stuff. And my first modules are very much in that vein, too; although there's a LOT of tall yellow dry grass west of the Mississippi, even up north. Anyway, I bring my NH stuff once in awhile, plus also my glorious collection of PC diesels (C-430, C-430, U25C, GP9B) to pull a coil steel train. Big fun! But I also have been collecting zebra stripe Santa Fe stuff, from the late Fifties. And if Bowser makes zebra RSD-5's, I am SO in (the question is: how many?). And that's from a Northwestern modeler. Ed |
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Post by cpr4200 on Aug 18, 2024 18:00:58 GMT -8
I've been going a little nuts buying stuff the past year or so and have picked up some 70's UP stuff: U28C, U30C, U25B's, C630, GP9, SD24 parts to make a B unit, GP35, SD40 and 45, an SP SD45, Burlington U30B, I forget what else. Also a CA-3 caboose. Saw a couple of half finished UP Geep 20 kitbashes on ebay but decided not to inherit someone else's issues.
While in college in Denver I took Amtrak up to Cheyenne over Thanksgiving 1971 weekend. Verrry busy. Stored GTEL's. U50C's on stock trains, WP and SP pool power and cabooses, SD40's and Geeps all over the place. Made an impression.
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Post by littlejoee76 on Aug 19, 2024 3:14:22 GMT -8
Back when I was first starting in the hobby, someone on my parent's bowling team gave me a huge box containing about a decade's worth of NMRA Bulletin magazines. Even as a youngster I found the magazines startlingly cringy.... Endless jokes about outhouses and "privies", and dozens of cartoons about a clumsy, clueless new modeller named "Thumbs". Tons of space devoted to subjects I had no interest in, like members offering to trade free passes to their imaginary railroads. Ooooh, this ticket grants the bearer complimentary passage on the Wapakoneta, East Jabip & Pacific Railroad! Catch me before I swoon! Exactly what I remember. Well said indeed! I was 20 years old and there was nothing at all that could possibly make me want to join such a cringy group. Not in 1988 and not today. Regarding the whole MMR thing, there are some excellent model railroaders who are much better at it than I will ever be, but I have to jump through hoops just to maintain licensure for my livelihood (continuing education requirements that are no joke) and the idea of having to jump through hoops to obtain MMR certification just is very off-putting for me and always has been since the day I first read of that. I have learned a great deal from just maintaining HO locomotives, but also from forums like this where I was always challenged to do things "better" than yesterday. As a veterinarian in the UK, the requirement for hoop jumping is all too familiar. The British Region bi-monthly mag, Roundhouse, is vastly better than it used to be and easily better than the US version. Full colour spread, good layout articles and a wide spread of contribution from both sides of the pond. Admin/bureaucratic notices are minimal. My own layout was in it in this years Jan, March and May issues; when the editor asked me for an article, I didn't have any reservations like I might have done five years back. A lot of the articles do have a subtext of pushing the Achievement Program but it's not for me. I suppose it could be used as a stepping stone for those that don't have the space to build a layout, but it should never be considered a substitute for one, which is how it often seems to come across. The other issue is that the British region is seeking to recruit modelers of non-North American prototypes. This is in part trying to deal with an ageing membership but also that modelling US prototypes is a lot more difficult in the UK than it was ten years ago as there is no longer a critical mass of US specialist stores/show vendors due to relocation, retirement or diversification into the much improved UK prototype models. Victors in London was the first to go. Mac's in Helensburgh (Scotland) relocated and went British, Porter Wynne in Lancashire retired as did LSWR (aka Penguin) followed by arch-rivals Model Junction in Slough. MG Sharp in Sheffield folded as did a great shop in Ross on Wye on the Welsh border. We're down to two AFAIK- Kent Garden Railways, southeast of London and Mech Models near Burton in the midlands. I have no option than ordering direct from the US; that's fine with some companies eg Tangent, Rapido etc but sometimes need an intermediary for Atlas or Athearn. Ebay has been screwed up post Brexit as many US vendors no longer offer shipping to the UK; the Global Shipping program seems to be especially badly affected apparently due to tax wrangles. Neill Horton |
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Post by sauconyard on Aug 19, 2024 3:56:38 GMT -8
When I joined the NMRA in 1961, it cost $3. That is $31 now. I joined mainly to support the Standards. I felt that I owed the organization a few bucks for rationalizing model railroading. I wonder if anyone joins for that reason, today. For various reasons, I declined to renew after a few years. Ed I did the same in the late 90s and left a few years later. I see the standards as the only reason to have a national association. But most manufacturers now understand compatibility and would be silly not to conform. Then again, BLI continues on with its silly proprietary crapola. Always someone. |
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Post by wagnersteve on Aug 19, 2024 6:40:01 GMT -8
8 /19/24, about 10:38 a.m., EDT
sauconyard, please explain your comment. In what specific way(s) are BLI products not compatible with accepted NMRA standards?
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Post by prr 4467 on Aug 19, 2024 7:19:36 GMT -8
sauconyard--
Are you confusing BLI with MTH, who has exited the HO market?
The BLI Paragon 3 and 4 series locos, which I have, are 100% compatible with regular dcc, and operate just fine with my NCE system.
I can't remember when BLI products were NOT compatible with regular dcc.
John
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Post by sauconyard on Aug 19, 2024 7:35:18 GMT -8
8 /19/24, about 10:38 a.m., EDT sauconyard, please explain your comment. In what specific way(s) are BLI products not compatible with accepted NMRA standards? I didn't specifically say they are not compatible with NMRA standards, just a bit of frustration that they continue to produce their own proprietary Paragon decoders for their locos vs. using a supplier like ESU or TCS. It's a bee in the bonnet thing that keeps me away from them. Apologies for the confusion. |
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ST974
New Member
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Post by ST974 on Aug 19, 2024 8:08:06 GMT -8
The MMR thing has always seemed really strange. Even stranger when people put it after their name. Another strange one was the "Trains on Stamps" competition, which I saw at a PCR convention years ago ('70's-'80's, ?). Now, I think a display of trains on stamps would be quite interesting to see. But to get an award because MY collection is better than YOUR collection? Really? It was won by some high-level NMRA official. Ed I agree the whole MMR thing is odd. I have several MMR friends and they just follow a list of items to do and if approved they get their MMR, mostly to the whims of the evaluator. I have seen some MMR's that do not have impressive layouts at all. You would think some of them would be in the hobby 1-3 years. The ones using it after their names really is something odd. But many of them have a holier than thou attitude so it's to be expected I suppose. |
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Post by jonklein611 on Aug 19, 2024 9:21:53 GMT -8
8 /19/24, about 10:38 a.m., EDT sauconyard, please explain your comment. In what specific way(s) are BLI products not compatible with accepted NMRA standards? I didn't specifically say they are not compatible with NMRA standards, just a bit of frustration that they continue to produce their own proprietary Paragon decoders for their locos vs. using a supplier like ESU or TCS. It's a bee in the bonnet thing that keeps me away from them. Apologies for the confusion. FYI, they relaunched their stealth line with standard connectors so you can add whatever decoder you would like. |
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