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Post by tony on Nov 6, 2024 20:02:34 GMT -8
It will certainly make it comparatively attractive to produce model railroad equipment in THIS country. At least, as long as the tariffs last. I'm not sure I'd care to gamble my fortune on that. Kupla hours later: Oddly, I've just been watching my old buddy, Ryan McBeth, talking about this very subject on Youtube. Not the model railroad part, but the potential lack of wisdom of depending on cheap Chinese goods, rather than being able to make our own. Ed When I visited the Athearn Factory in Compton, California back in 1999 the people that were operating the injection molding machines, pad printing, testing were all Hispanic women aged 40+. These products being tested were the Athearn Genesis ATSF F units and Bombardier coach cars. I suspect that Irv Athearn had many Hispanic persons available to employ in model train making. These people still exist here in California. Here's the test question . . . would you rather pick vegetables in 110 degree heat or assemble model trains parts in 70 degree A/C clean environments? The answer is clear. |
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Post by tony on Nov 6, 2024 20:14:20 GMT -8
You don't get what you want, you get what you deserve, americans care about their hamburgers and their treats above anything else. I would never eat a hamburger made in China. After 820,000 pets that died in 2004 from poisoned China Pet Food sold at Walmart and others. The risk is too great. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 6, 2024 20:26:05 GMT -8
The United States can neither make a Litoral Combat Ship, nor an I-phone.
As Joey Swoll says: "You need to do better."
Ed
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Post by tony on Nov 6, 2024 20:27:19 GMT -8
If Trump imposes tariffs on ALL toys imported from China, that will include model trains and we will see one of the worse years in sales in recent memory. There will be some serious ramifications for the MR community. Vito L. California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas would be good substitutes. Irv Athearn had it correct - Hispanic women are excellent at attention to detail. |
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Post by hudsonyard on Nov 7, 2024 0:13:10 GMT -8
Hate to break it to you, regardless of any domestic production fantasies you aren't getting people to put together rapido freight cars for slave wages.
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Post by markfj on Nov 7, 2024 2:59:03 GMT -8
Hate to break it to you, regardless of any domestic production fantasies you aren't getting people to put together rapido freight cars for slave wages. How does Kadee do it?😉 Mark J. Reading, PA |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 7, 2024 3:44:24 GMT -8
Hate to break it to you, regardless of any domestic production fantasies you aren't getting people to put together rapido freight cars for slave wages. How does Kadee do it?😉 Mark J. Reading, PA Jason Schron addressed that a while back. |
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Post by markfj on Nov 7, 2024 4:29:38 GMT -8
How does Kadee do it?😉 Mark J. Reading, PA Jason Schron addressed that a while back. I found this older post on TO, but can't find Schron's comments. How did Kadee & Micro Trains Do It in America???I don't see Rapido or Moloco making a move to the US because of the higher part count on their products. Way to much handling time is involved which drives up labor costs (even at dirt cheap rate). Well, see what happens. |
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 7, 2024 6:23:12 GMT -8
Way to much handling time is involved which drives up labor costs (even at dirt cheap rate). Maybe this will prompt the return of those "kit" things from the olden days. Next: dinosaurs! Ed |
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Post by snootie3257 on Nov 7, 2024 6:28:07 GMT -8
Way to much handling time is involved which drives up labor costs (even at dirt cheap rate). Maybe this will prompt the return of those "kit" things from the olden days. Next: dinosaurs! Ed Don’t give anybody that idea 😁 (dinosaurs) Steve |
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Post by kangaroose on Nov 7, 2024 8:09:47 GMT -8
Thanks Mr. Austin. The MP cars are superb. Thank you NICK. |
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Post by kangaroose on Nov 7, 2024 8:30:55 GMT -8
Mark, I'm not exactly familiar with the RF-361 draft gear, however most other Miner RF design draft gears seem to be internal draft gear (the normal 2" "cushion") common in all cars with no cushioning units. Therefore, the RF-361 you reference sits inside the "coupler box". The mostly outwardly visible part of any "draft gear" specifically follows the car builder's design. ACF non-cushioned design, which we produce already 0414 kits, see link. www.molocotrains.com/collections/parts/products/0414?variant=6859176964We are currently out of stock, but they'll be in stock very soon, hopefully by the end of the year. Nick These look super nice and I intend on purchasing at least two. I recon’ $66.99 or close to it will be “the norm” sooner than later. Sigh… True, but as the saying goes “don’t hate the player, hate the game.” Moloco is just trying to survive in a world of unnecessarily high inflation. I still think you get a lot of value for your money with a Moloco car. You just need to be more selective with what you buy these days since each car is more like a mini investment than a casual purchase. Hope Nick someday offers a Miner RF-361 draft gear. Needed those for my Atlas PC X71 boxcars.😉 Mark J. Reading, PA |
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Post by typhoon on Nov 7, 2024 8:54:38 GMT -8
Way to much handling time is involved which drives up labor costs (even at dirt cheap rate). Maybe this will prompt the return of those "kit" things from the olden days. I doubt it will do much but slow down sales over the next couple of years. Nobody should gamble long term on a policy that might go away in 2029. |
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Post by markfj on Nov 7, 2024 9:06:40 GMT -8
Hello Nick, Ok, I was just repeating the number that I found on the line drawing for the X71 car class. This is what the prototype looks like:  The most notable feature is the irregular hexagon shaped plating on the face of the draft gear box. I have several of your 0414 kits and thought about using styrene to replicate that detail, but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort considering how thin and fagile the styrene would have to be. It's really not a big deal, I just thougth I woud ask. Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA |
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Post by kangaroose on Nov 7, 2024 15:41:00 GMT -8
Correct Mark. Over time the draft gear housing was modified slightly. I chose to tool a slightly different version thinking it easier to cut off angles, etc. Rather than adding tiny styrene bits. Nick Hello Nick, Ok, I was just repeating the number that I found on the line drawing for the X71 car class. This is what the prototype looks like: The most notable feature is the irregular hexagon shaped plating on the face of the draft gear box. I have several of your 0414 kits and thought about using styrene to replicate that detail, but it probably wouldn't be worth the effort considering how thin and fagile the styrene would have to be. It's really not a big deal, I just thougth I woud ask. Thanks, Mark J. Reading, PA |
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 7, 2024 15:48:23 GMT -8
I would just beg my senators and congressmen for no tariff on toys.
Without a ton of other deregulation production just can't come back here. There's old posts from Lee at Bowser about all the problems he had getting body shells painted, it became easier to just have all the production done there.
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Post by kangaroose on Nov 16, 2024 15:13:16 GMT -8
Most likely production will move to a lesser tariffed country versus the USA.
Either way products for moloco are a now available online tariff free.
Nick
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Post by drolsen on Nov 16, 2024 18:19:16 GMT -8
I don't see Rapido or Moloco making a move to the US because of the higher part count on their products. Way too much handling time is involved which drives up labor costs (even at dirt cheap rate). I’ve heard from several manufacturers that the skilled labor force needed to assembly high quality models doesn’t even exist here in the U.S., at any price. It would require training people to do it, if they were even willing to for a wage that would keep the model prices somewhat competitive. If you look at Kadee and Micro-Trains models, one thing that people often miss is the excellent design work that went into the subassemblies that make them possible to assemble here in the U.S. Not every prototype could be replicated in HO scale the way the ones Kadee selected can. A Kadee PS-2 covered hopper doesn’t have that many individual parts, once you break it down, but it assembles into a beautiful model. Dave |
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 16, 2024 18:39:10 GMT -8
Moloco being in Canada probably means it wouldn't affect them.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 16, 2024 20:29:02 GMT -8
I don't see Rapido or Moloco making a move to the US because of the higher part count on their products. Way too much handling time is involved which drives up labor costs (even at dirt cheap rate). I’ve heard from several manufacturers that the skilled labor force needed to assembly high quality models doesn’t even exist here in the U.S., at any price. It would require training people to do it, if they were even willing to for a wage that would keep the model prices somewhat competitive. If you look at Kadee and Micro-Trains models, one thing that people often miss is the excellent design work that went into the subassemblies that make them possible to assemble here in the U.S. Not every prototype could be replicated in HO scale the way the ones Kadee selected can. A Kadee PS-2 covered hopper doesn’t have that many individual parts, once you break it down, but it assembles into a beautiful model. Dave I'm in the middle of building a Lonestar Wilson grain trailer. Yup, it's a kit. And with every step, there's a chance to screw it up, or make it better. It really gets you thinking about what you're doing. I'm enjoying it LOTS! Ed |
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Post by Colin 't Hart on Nov 17, 2024 6:02:37 GMT -8
If you look at Kadee and Micro-Trains models, one thing that people often miss is the excellent design work that went into the subassemblies that make them possible to assemble here in the U.S. Not every prototype could be replicated in HO scale the way the ones Kadee selected can. A Kadee PS-2 covered hopper doesn’t have that many individual parts, once you break it down, but it assembles into a beautiful model. Don't forget that the Kadee models are completely glue free, which must be a major consideration for assembly in the US. |
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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 17, 2024 6:53:49 GMT -8
11/17/2024, starting about 9:45 a.m., EDT
A very useful thread; thanks to all who have posted on it.
I still would like to see a link to what Jason Shron had to say about how Kadee manages to do all its manufacturing in the USA. I wasn't able to read past the first page of the Train Orders discussion of that subject because I'm not a member of TO. I'm okay with some of the compromises Kadee has made, including the use of the same underframe for its models of the very early 40-ft. PS-1 boxcars as for those of later ones, because the difference isn't readily apparent unless you turn the car upside down. Kadee's newer trucks with simulated rather than actual metal springs look better than the earlier ones. I'm also content with Kadee's semi-scale HO couplers and think the ones with whisker springs save a lot of fussy cutting and filing of the earlier bent thin brass centering springs.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 17, 2024 9:36:22 GMT -8
Steve, if you have the link to the topic on TO where Jason gives his explanation, I can check beyond page one. I did a search myself and so far only found a post by Rapido Bill quoted from 2011 on TO:
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Post by wagnersteve on Nov 17, 2024 10:13:43 GMT -8
11/17/2024, 1:13 p.m., EST
Jim, thanks very much for your latest post.
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Post by cpr4200 on Nov 17, 2024 11:05:24 GMT -8
So, will Chinese imports brought into Canada, and then exported to the US, be subject to tariffs?
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Post by ironrails on Nov 17, 2024 12:33:02 GMT -8
It doesn't matter how they come into the US, the tariff is based on the country of origin, not what country they entered via. They would still be tariffed the same as if the container landed directly in a US port. Think of all the containers that are off loaded in the ports of Vancouver or Prince Rupert, that travel by rail into the US midwest.
Even Rapido products that are received at and handled through their Toronto area warehouse would be subject to paying the tariff upon entering the US whether in a large shipment to a US store or distributor, or to an individual customer (though those sometimes slip through).
Regards,
Mike MacLatchy
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Post by kangaroose on Nov 19, 2024 23:29:14 GMT -8
DAVE, Before moving my tooling from Canada to China i did a big excercise to see if i could do RTR in Canada. I hoped to be able offset the weaker CDN dollar, typically to my advantage. I placed out enquiries for certain tasks in southern Ontario a hot bed of manufacturing for cars and other like industries. Besides the ridiculous quotes i received for merely prainting and pad printing, a lot of it was not possible or they would need to trial a couple hundred sets of parts before they could hone in on the quality that was needed 15 years ago. Also repeatability was also an issue. A simple paint mask for a yellow boxcar door was going cost $15k. I was doing the tooling myself at that point, but i did approach another maker and said they could not achieve the detail or accuracy i had achieved. Things were adding up quickly to a no-go, even without the capital side. Remember it has taken decades and skilled labour that is willing to do the excellent work and long hours for what we have now. It would not ever lead to a journey back to north america. Im not suggesting you think it would either. But im sure that im not the only mfger that has not done the same. Nick I don't see Rapido or Moloco making a move to the US because of the higher part count on their products. Way too much handling time is involved which drives up labor costs (even at dirt cheap rate). I’ve heard from several manufacturers that the skilled labor force needed to assembly high quality models doesn’t even exist here in the U.S., at any price. It would require training people to do it, if they were even willing to for a wage that would keep the model prices somewhat competitive. If you look at Kadee and Micro-Trains models, one thing that people often miss is the excellent design work that went into the subassemblies that make them possible to assemble here in the U.S. Not every prototype could be replicated in HO scale the way the ones Kadee selected can. A Kadee PS-2 covered hopper doesn’t have that many individual parts, once you break it down, but it assembles into a beautiful model. Dave |
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Post by gevohogger on Nov 20, 2024 5:57:48 GMT -8
Way to much handling time is involved which drives up labor costs (even at dirt cheap rate). Maybe this will prompt the return of those "kit" things from the olden days. I remember a kind of golden age of kits, where the unassembled kits were made in USA and cost about $15 each. Intermountain, Red Caboose..... I built a LOT of their kits! I spent a few years away from the hobby (running the real trains instead) and when I slowly got back into it the kits had gone away and everything was fully assembled, made in China and $45 a car. And prices have done nothing but rise ever since.
I suppose the jump from a $15 made-in-USA kit to a fully-assembled made-in-USA freight car would be a lot of money.
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Post by talltim on Nov 20, 2024 6:32:56 GMT -8
If you look at Kadee and Micro-Trains models, one thing that people often miss is the excellent design work that went into the subassemblies that make them possible to assemble here in the U.S. Not every prototype could be replicated in HO scale the way the ones Kadee selected can. A Kadee PS-2 covered hopper doesn’t have that many individual parts, once you break it down, but it assembles into a beautiful model. Don't forget that the Kadee models are completely glue free, which must be a major consideration for assembly in the US. I misread that as gluten free |
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Post by talltim on Nov 20, 2024 6:33:51 GMT -8
Maybe this will prompt the return of those "kit" things from the olden days. I remember a kind of golden age of kits, where the unassembled kits were made in USA and cost about $15 each. Intermountain, Red Caboose..... I built a LOT of their kits! I spent a few years away from the hobby (running the real trains instead) and when I slowly got back into it the kits had gone away and everything was fully assembled, made in China and $45 a car. And prices have done nothing but rise ever since.
I suppose the jump from a $15 made-in-USA kit to a fully-assembled made-in-USA freight car would be a lot of money.
Thing is, there's loads of those older kits still available second hand, at a similar price, if you want them. |
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