thmy
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by thmy on Nov 13, 2024 10:48:59 GMT -8
I'm especially vexed at the comments about the employees not caring. Some of the other comments are deserved, but that one isn't. Everyone is doing the best the can do, within the confines of the business and their job expectations / requirements. The employees doing the day-to-day work have little to no control over the website, delivery dates, items in stock, pricing, etc. Prices are in line with competitors. Artificially lowering the MSRP would be harmful to dealers. Most dealers offer discounts- it's up to them to determine how much. Don't pay MSRP. Other companies seem to be releasing more new products. To be sure, they have different business models, workflow, resources, even goals. Baseless claims about sales numbers under different regimes. I could go on. You won't see a reply on TO because I'm not a paid member, but boy did I want to. That was aimed at one employee not all. There is a day/night difference in brand managers. Shane and Chris were good, this current one seems low energy and does not do much to reach out to modelers. Maybe some of these are Horizons decisions for sure but the difference is palpable. I agree with others that Horizon seems hellbent to kill or further reduce Athearn. At a minimum they aren't Horizon's priority. |
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joppasub
Full Member
Retired; Now a full time modeler
Posts: 147
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Post by joppasub on Nov 13, 2024 12:10:45 GMT -8
I wonder why people have trouble figuring out DCC and other things in the hobby...but all one would have to do is read some of the assertions made here regarding the industry of model trains. The last time I checked; Athearn has announced new products each month. And has re-tooled and introduced brand new tooling on several projects that are going to be really nice models. The ICC cabooses; for instance; are some of the nicest things I have seen introduced by a major manufacturer. They offer a wide range of products for the model railroader; and are keeping up with current trends...even though some would argue the counter point. There is always new stuff coming out each month.
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Post by prr 4467 on Nov 13, 2024 13:39:30 GMT -8
Yes, new products all the time.
Yes, the cabooses are absolutely stellar.
Where I think Athearn is falling behind is with the locomotives, even the "newly tooled from ground up" releases. Several recent Athearn locos have just very wrong paint colors that do NOT match the competitors. Specifically, the BNSF orange is hot but is brighter and stands out too much from what the other guys are using. Because it just doesn't look right, my son is not happy and is selling the Athearns and keeping the ScaleTrains locos. The Kansas City Southern units were NOT well painted at all. The Athearn factory actually painted yellow over the bright red, giving the yellow a nasty orange cast that is just way wrong no matter how you slice it. Next to a ScaleTrains KCS loco, they look just wrong.
ScaleTrains' typical loco is just better executed, and I never thought I'd be preferring them over Genesis (well, my son...I only run steam now...he has all the diesels).
So far as dcc is concerned, I'm one of those who eventually "figured it out", but it is also very clear that Tsunami 2 is just inferior to what Loksound is making for ScaleTrains and others. It just is. The sound is not nearly as good, and the lighting of the competitors' models is certainly more bulletproof in actual use. I don't even particularly love Loksound, but it's better than Tsunami 2.
Yes, we had some bad ESU decoders, but ScaleTrains stood behind their product and returned the locos as good and perfect as brand new.
I'm sorry to say, as much as I like Athearn, ScaleTrains and Bowser are both beating them on locomotives. I would even go so far as to say BLI Paragon 4 steam is really beating the Athearn steam locos, too. Simply too many plastic details fall off the Genesis steam power--did try several.
It is understandable to me why some would prefer competitors' diesels over Genesis at this point. The others run better out of the box too.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 13, 2024 15:53:04 GMT -8
Where I think Athearn is falling behind is with the locomotives, even the "newly tooled from ground up" releases. Where I think Athearn is falling behind is with the locomotives, even the "newly tooled from ground up" releases. [/quote] Athearn has made some nice Genesis diesels but ScaleTrains has been getting my money mostly. |
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Post by NS4122 on Nov 13, 2024 17:20:25 GMT -8
Not a big fan of Scaletrains quality over Athearn Genesis 2.0. I'd much rather have Genesis 2.0 locomotives. While they stand behind their products, I've had to send back more Scaletrains locomotives for repair or replacement (seven in the past 3 years) than I have from Athearn (3) in the past 20+ years, and I own way more Athearn. Additionally, I have four ST dash nines with drooping front pilots. The upcoming AC44C6M photos on the ST website look terrible with severely drooped front ends/crooked steps. As for the ESU sound, I find it tinny and weak (especially horns) compared to the robust sounds of the Athearn Genesis 2.0 models with their dual sugar cube speakers.
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Post by edwardsutorik on Nov 13, 2024 18:32:49 GMT -8
I pre-ordered at my local shop a couple of UP GP38-2's on November 15, 2022. The Athearn website shows they're still taking orders, with no delivery date.
Now, I can wait a VERY long time for still more locomotives--I'm not complaining at all. But I am noting that it's been two years. So that kinda backs up Jim's comment.
And, actually, ScaleTrains hasn't been getting much from me lately, either. Now, if they did a BN GP30. Or a BN GP39M, or whatever, I'd be in. And so, too, for some "late" (1980-ish) BN SD45's (as I've mentioned a few times).
And then there's the NW5 and the SDP40.
Ed
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Post by dti406 on Nov 13, 2024 19:35:29 GMT -8
I pre-ordered at my local shop a couple of UP GP38-2's on November 15, 2022. The Athearn website shows they're still taking orders, with no delivery date. Now, I can wait a VERY long time for still more locomotives--I'm not complaining at all. But I am noting that it's been two years. So that kinda backs up Jim's comment. And, actually, ScaleTrains hasn't been getting much from me lately, either. Now, if they did a BN GP30. Or a BN GP39M, or whatever, I'd be in. And so, too, for some "late" (1980-ish) BN SD45's (as I've mentioned a few times). And then there's the NW5 and the SDP40. Ed About the same time I preordered a pair of DTI GP40-2’s and PRR F5 A&B units and there have been crickets on when they will be shipped . Rick Jesionowski |
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Nov 14, 2024 3:38:38 GMT -8
I reserved 3 sets of CSX Bethgons, with new tooling, 2 years ago but am in no hurry since I have tons of work left on the train layout before planned open house this winter.
In the meantime, a CSX Genesis SD 80 Mac and CSX MP 15 switcher arrived along with 3 Amtrak P 42 locomotives so I have no issues with Athearn release dates.
I have been promising an open house of my layout for 10 years and that never happened so I am not throwing any stones in my glass house.
Lee Woolery
Uncle Gene's Hobby Museum
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2024 4:00:24 GMT -8
am in no hurry since I have tons of work left on the train layout before planned open house this winter. I have been promising an open house of my layout for 10 years and that never happened so I am not throwing any stones in my glass house. Lee Woolery Uncle Gene's Hobby Museum No stones here! I haven't been planning any open houses but I get how long it can take to get a layout of substantial size built and running. I moved into my house late Nov 2017 and somethings delayed the layout progress, such as a lot of DIY house work like remodeling the kitchen, finishing the basement/train room, adding a 3rd full bathroom, tearing the back deck down and rebuilding it and live with/taking care of a elderly parent for a full year. Yeah... Benchwork didn't start until 2020 and I didn't get to the point that some basic desert floor scenery was down (sanded grout) and I got enough electrical in (drops and buss) tested and running in DCC mode finally this fall. Been busy getting rolling stock on the layout (including adding Kadees and adjustments, programming engines and doing some running. Post some photos if you don't mind! |
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Post by railmodeltroy14 on Nov 14, 2024 5:03:18 GMT -8
am in no hurry since I have tons of work left on the train layout before planned open house this winter. I have been promising an open house of my layout for 10 years and that never happened so I am not throwing any stones in my glass house. Lee Woolery Uncle Gene's Hobby Museum No stones here! I haven't been planning any open houses but I get how long it can take to get a layout of substantial size built and running. I moved into my house late Nov 2017 and somethings delayed the layout progress, such as a lot of DIY house work like remodeling the kitchen, finishing the basement/train room, adding a 3rd full bathroom, tearing the back deck down and rebuilding it and live with/taking care of a elderly parent for a full year. Yeah... Benchwork didn't start until 2020 and I didn't get to the point that some basic desert floor scenery was down (sanded grout) and I got enough electrical in (drops and buss) tested and running in DCC mode finally this fall. Been busy getting rolling stock on the layout (including adding Kadees and adjustments, programming engines and doing some running. Post some photos if you don't mind! Pictures on our Facebook page Uncle Gene's Hobby Museum |
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2024 5:38:44 GMT -8
No stones here! I haven't been planning any open houses but I get how long it can take to get a layout of substantial size built and running. I moved into my house late Nov 2017 and somethings delayed the layout progress, such as a lot of DIY house work like remodeling the kitchen, finishing the basement/train room, adding a 3rd full bathroom, tearing the back deck down and rebuilding it and live with/taking care of a elderly parent for a full year. Yeah... Benchwork didn't start until 2020 and I didn't get to the point that some basic desert floor scenery was down (sanded grout) and I got enough electrical in (drops and buss) tested and running in DCC mode finally this fall. Been busy getting rolling stock on the layout (including adding Kadees and adjustments, programming engines and doing some running. Post some photos if you don't mind! Pictures on our Facebook page Uncle Gene's Hobby Museum I don't have a facebook account which limits what I can see. What is the search term? |
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Post by mlwlover on Nov 14, 2024 10:36:52 GMT -8
I will take the athearn genesis locos any day of the week. Their steps are etch metal that are notched in and are very durable. The problem is athearn doesn't make tier 4 and later es44ac locos. The scale trains are very detailed but there way of mounting the shell to the frame is terrible as it causes the end walkways to not stay put and bow up. Speaking of which has anyone come up with a fix for this issue? Scaletrains doesn't care.i was thinking of somehow fusing the coupler mounting peg to the walkway and as you tighten the screw down it will keep the walkways where they are supposed to be. That would be a good project for the 3d printers out there to make new end walkways with the peg for the couplers attached to the end walkways.
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Post by riogrande on Nov 14, 2024 10:54:36 GMT -8
I will take the athearn genesis locos any day of the week. Their steps are etch metal that are notched in and are very durable. The problem is athearn doesn't make tier 4 and later es44ac locos. The scale trains are very detailed but there way of mounting the shell to the frame is terrible as it causes the end walkways to not stay put and bow up. Speaking of which has anyone come up with a fix for this issue? Scaletrains doesn't care.i was thinking of somehow fusing the coupler mounting peg to the walkway and as you tighten the screw down it will keep the walkways where they are supposed to be. That would be a good project for the 3d printers out there to make new end walkways with the peg for the couplers attached to the end walkways. As is often the case, it depends on who is making what you need. Both Athearn Genesis and Scaletrains makes engines I need. Neither are perfect. I bought 4 Athearn Genesis GP40-2's and all had frames that bowed up in the front. The orange side sills made it all that easier to see. I had some Athearn tunnel motors and heck if I could get the coupler pockets out so I could take the shell off. But rather than risk damaging by putting too much pressure on the coupler boxes, I sold them. |
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jimw
New Member
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Post by jimw on Nov 14, 2024 13:02:34 GMT -8
I'm especially vexed at the comments about the employees not caring. Some of the other comments are deserved, but that one isn't. Everyone is doing the best the can do, within the confines of the business and their job expectations / requirements. The employees doing the day-to-day work have little to no control over the website, delivery dates, items in stock, pricing, etc. Prices are in line with competitors. Artificially lowering the MSRP would be harmful to dealers. Most dealers offer discounts- it's up to them to determine how much. Don't pay MSRP. Other companies seem to be releasing more new products. To be sure, they have different business models, workflow, resources, even goals. Baseless claims about sales numbers under different regimes. I could go on. You won't see a reply on TO because I'm not a paid member, but boy did I want to. That was aimed at one employee not all. There is a day/night difference in brand managers. Shane and Chris were good, this current one seems low energy and does not do much to reach out to modelers. Maybe some of these are Horizons decisions for sure but the difference is palpable. I agree with others that Horizon seems hellbent to kill or further reduce Athearn. At a minimum they aren't Horizon's priority. Since you are pointing the comments about Athearn Product Management to me, I feel it is only fair to answer them. There is a lot of the day to day operations you frankly are not aware of concerning Athearn / Horizon and what my specific roles are. Many of the items you point out are outside of my control as well as the Product Managers and artist. I take exception at the comment of me having "low energy" or do not promote the brand how you think it should be promoted. I am honored to work for Athearn as a life long model railroad hobbyist and left a higher paying job to come work with the Athearn team. I'm also honored to work with a team that is not only building exceptional models but also creating new ones. I have put my heart and soul into the brand and fought many battles that you have no idea about, so excuse me if I take exception to you painting me with your broad brush of ignorance. You mention previous Brand Managers of Athearn, and have compared them as better brand managers then myself. In some ways you are correct but again you don't know the limitations of the current role of Brand Manager. I know both of the gentlemen you name, and one of them, I would consider a friend. Their roles were vastly different due to the Horizon management style that was in place at the time of their tenure. It should be noted that there is an Athearn Manager than I and others report to and he ultimately reports to Horizon. When I came on board in late 2020 the management architecture had been redrawn since my predecessor. With that said there are a few things you should know regarding my role: 1. I do not control what models are announced, what roads are selected or when the announced models will be in stock. 2. I have no control over the Athearn website. the website is controlled by a Horizon web team. Previous Brand Managers had access to the previous website and in the last days of the previous website, I did as well as I worked on the new monthly announcements. once the new website was in place we immediately received feedback from modelers like you and I brought this information to the web team. No one in this forum except maybe Janek knows how many meetings, arguments, frustrations and set backs I have had with the current website. the only input I have is what you see visually on the front page. I'm still fighting for these improvements and so is my manager. to say the website is frustrating is a huge understatement. 3. I have no control over when items are shipped. I realize we have a back log, but that is not myself or anyone else who works at Athearn. We have a factory overseas and Covid as well as the chip shortage helped create that back log. 4. Shows: I have tried to get out more to shows but it is a constant struggle with the budget. Like it or not I am constrained by a budget so going to every shop or show is not feasible. The other issue you do not realize is I am an hourly employee, currently over time is not an option so I'm extremely limited on "time away from my desk" and focusing on the day to day operations that keep Athearn in view of modelers and dealers. Were it up to me, I would travel a lot more to shows and shops, I like talking with fellow modelers and hear what they have to say (good and bad) and what they are working on, however my constraints are no different and if I want to continue to work for Athearn, then I have to work within those confines. 5. We as a manufacturer are not perfect, we never have claimed to be and if I were to tell you different, it would be lie. That said, we don't go out of way to bring you to anger by deliberately making bad products. In the past few years, we have been honest about issues and have taken steps to correct them such as the SD60M Tri-Clops, Amtrak #46 and recently the SDP40 fans on the Amtrak models. 6. I am human, I'm a real person, I make mistakes and by no means perfect. Rather than attack a company or it's employees, why not try to open a dialog. What changes do you want to see? What do you think we could do better? Better yet, talk to me at a show, but be civil. 7. The statement Horizon doesn't care about Athearn or that is letting it die. You forget that tooling for new projects requires financing and all the new tooling for projects such as AC4400CWs, Acid Tank cars in N, refinements to older models such as lit number boards and class lights on Geeps and the recently re-tooled F7A have been paid for by Horizon. Sure, we have our struggles within the corporation but that is true with any corporation that is a for profit entity. I'm sorry my Mel Gibson style fights with Horizon management have not been as vocal or visual as you may like to see, however if I'm to stay employed, I'm going to work within my confines along with my other Athearn coworkers. I've worked within the hobby industry in some capacity for over 25 years. I know a lot of others in the industry who have had to put up with remarks and vitriol like this and some of those folks not only left the industry, but left the hobby and want nothing to do with it. When I took on the role a few years back, I promised myself that if my career at Athearn started to ruin the passion I have for model railroading, that I would leave the industry and enjoy my hobby as a lone wolf. Threads like this certainly have me thinking about that. Respectfully, Jim Wiggin |
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Post by delta767332er on Nov 14, 2024 14:07:52 GMT -8
Athearn has plenty of issues, problems, and limitations, for sure. But even under the status quo of all the Horizon-limited meh, they could immediately take several leaps forward in quality and usefulness to the prototype modeler if they could just get one or three more knowledgeable and competent people in their art department, while getting rid of whatever is driving the ship there now. As I've said countless times, Athearn's tooling inventory is too important for the monthly releases to keep coming with poorly-researched and "We really just don't care to do better" paint and lettering; it's like a recurring nightmare that's been going on for the better part of a decade, long since other competitors have completely ran away from Athearn on the paint and lettering side of things. Pre-Tangent and pre-Moloco, all the manufacturers did roughly the same level of art research - good enough for where the hobby was at that time. But everyone else (that matters) has moved forward with their paint and lettering research, at least to some degree. Most Athearn releases, including Genesis, consistently have artwork that would've raised eyebrows in my early days in the hobby two decades ago. It's completely unacceptable and no amount of quibbling or offering legitimate reasons as excuses make it more acceptable. Athearn art, in general, is garbage. Especially in the context of what it's being applied on. We're not talking about the Bachmann tooling inventory. Fix the art and Athearn is on par with all the other major producers, each with their own pros and cons and shortcomings. But the art just drags them down into a weird no-man's land between the toy train companies and Athearn's competitors that Athearn SHOULD be competitors with, but objectively are not.
I understand that each individual working at Athearn isn't responsible for a non-caring attitude or should be blamed for Athearn and/or Horizon's shortcomings. But in the end, does it matter? Every horrible customer service or product experience we've all had eventually comes down to individual employees, especially if we're interacting with them. Even if it isn't their fault, and if it's truly out of their control, they can't take the criticism personally, unless of course, the criticism was personal, like it sometimes is.
The theme that's been coming from Athearn's employees over the last years of "we're trying and doing our best" really doesn't move the needle if nothing is changing, or arguably even getting worse. Perhaps that would taste better if all of our dialogue about our frustrations with "Athearn" were replaced with "Horizon," but whatever.
Just tired of the excuses. I want results. It seems easy to forget that the ones making the complaints also have real jobs in the real world and understand the consequences of delivering quality product, or not. The complaints don't exist in the vacuum of our mom's basements and keyboards. Sure, they're model trains, so the stakes are lower than most consumer goods and services. But the money is real, and getting more real each year.
Athearn, Horizon, whoever needs to do better.
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thmy
Full Member
Posts: 140
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Post by thmy on Nov 14, 2024 16:35:46 GMT -8
That was aimed at one employee not all. There is a day/night difference in brand managers. Shane and Chris were good, this current one seems low energy and does not do much to reach out to modelers. Maybe some of these are Horizons decisions for sure but the difference is palpable. I agree with others that Horizon seems hellbent to kill or further reduce Athearn. At a minimum they aren't Horizon's priority. Since you are pointing the comments about Athearn Product Management to me, I feel it is only fair to answer them. There is a lot of the day to day operations you frankly are not aware of concerning Athearn / Horizon and what my specific roles are. Many of the items you point out are outside of my control as well as the Product Managers and artist. I take exception at the comment of me having "low energy" or do not promote the brand how you think it should be promoted. I am honored to work for Athearn as a life long model railroad hobbyist and left a higher paying job to come work with the Athearn team. I'm also honored to work with a team that is not only building exceptional models but also creating new ones. I have put my heart and soul into the brand and fought many battles that you have no idea about, so excuse me if I take exception to you painting me with your broad brush of ignorance. You mention previous Brand Managers of Athearn, and have compared them as better brand managers then myself. In some ways you are correct but again you don't know the limitations of the current role of Brand Manager. I know both of the gentlemen you name, and one of them, I would consider a friend. Their roles were vastly different due to the Horizon management style that was in place at the time of their tenure. It should be noted that there is an Athearn Manager than I and others report to and he ultimately reports to Horizon. When I came on board in late 2020 the management architecture had been redrawn since my predecessor. With that said there are a few things you should know regarding my role: 1. I do not control what models are announced, what roads are selected or when the announced models will be in stock. 2. I have no control over the Athearn website. the website is controlled by a Horizon web team. Previous Brand Managers had access to the previous website and in the last days of the previous website, I did as well as I worked on the new monthly announcements. once the new website was in place we immediately received feedback from modelers like you and I brought this information to the web team. No one in this forum except maybe Janek knows how many meetings, arguments, frustrations and set backs I have had with the current website. the only input I have is what you see visually on the front page. I'm still fighting for these improvements and so is my manager. to say the website is frustrating is a huge understatement. 3. I have no control over when items are shipped. I realize we have a back log, but that is not myself or anyone else who works at Athearn. We have a factory overseas and Covid as well as the chip shortage helped create that back log. 4. Shows: I have tried to get out more to shows but it is a constant struggle with the budget. Like it or not I am constrained by a budget so going to every shop or show is not feasible. The other issue you do not realize is I am an hourly employee, currently over time is not an option so I'm extremely limited on "time away from my desk" and focusing on the day to day operations that keep Athearn in view of modelers and dealers. Were it up to me, I would travel a lot more to shows and shops, I like talking with fellow modelers and hear what they have to say (good and bad) and what they are working on, however my constraints are no different and if I want to continue to work for Athearn, then I have to work within those confines. 5. We as a manufacturer are not perfect, we never have claimed to be and if I were to tell you different, it would be lie. That said, we don't go out of way to bring you to anger by deliberately making bad products. In the past few years, we have been honest about issues and have taken steps to correct them such as the SD60M Tri-Clops, Amtrak #46 and recently the SDP40 fans on the Amtrak models. 6. I am human, I'm a real person, I make mistakes and by no means perfect. Rather than attack a company or it's employees, why not try to open a dialog. What changes do you want to see? What do you think we could do better? Better yet, talk to me at a show, but be civil. 7. The statement Horizon doesn't care about Athearn or that is letting it die. You forget that tooling for new projects requires financing and all the new tooling for projects such as AC4400CWs, Acid Tank cars in N, refinements to older models such as lit number boards and class lights on Geeps and the recently re-tooled F7A have been paid for by Horizon. Sure, we have our struggles within the corporation but that is true with any corporation that is a for profit entity. I'm sorry my Mel Gibson style fights with Horizon management have not been as vocal or visual as you may like to see, however if I'm to stay employed, I'm going to work within my confines along with my other Athearn coworkers. I've worked within the hobby industry in some capacity for over 25 years. I know a lot of others in the industry who have had to put up with remarks and vitriol like this and some of those folks not only left the industry, but left the hobby and want nothing to do with it. When I took on the role a few years back, I promised myself that if my career at Athearn started to ruin the passion I have for model railroading, that I would leave the industry and enjoy my hobby as a lone wolf. Threads like this certainly have me thinking about that. Respectfully, Jim Wiggin I appreciate the thorough response and I understand you have different challenges and a different environment than your predecessors. However, I have many contacts in this hobby and unless they are all wrong, there are some decisions you made that were stark differences from Chris. The change was immediate so unless Horizon used the change in Manager to jump on some institutional changes, it can only be tied to your changes and decision making. So I find it hard to believe you aren't responsible for some changes. There are also several specific instances I could point to that would be handled far differently and frankly better by your predecessors regardless of institutional changes. But pointing these out in a public forum will get us no further in the discussion. The only point I can leave you with is perhaps you should move on to other employment. Not because of criticisms here but I think you should worry about Horizons poor management of your brand. The only reason your sales aren't completely in the tank is because Scaletrains and Rapido has extended some grace in their model and paint scheme selections. Without proper improvements, marketing and interest generation; I could see Athearn reducing to the point where your job is in jeopardy of being cut. I wouldn't want that shakey job security. ScaleTrains and Rapido are far better with diesels and Broadway Stealth paired with an ESU decoder or hell even Paragon 4 is better than the aging steam tooling and Soundtraxx decoder that has sounded practically the same since my first product from them in 2008.. Best of wishes on your future endeavors at Horizon or elsewhere. The hobby will not pause at the news of your departure but not many are missed. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Nov 14, 2024 21:23:44 GMT -8
Prices are in line with competitors. Artificially lowering the MSRP would be harmful to dealers. Most dealers offer discounts- it's up to them to determine how much. Don't pay MSRP. The problem is Athearn kept those prices in line by reducing the discount. With the reduced discount a dealer makes almost nothing on these engines, because he has to compete with big mail order houses who sell things for barely above cost and consider making a dollar on each $325 list engine to be okay. I might make 7-10% on something with a 30% discount if I offer it at 10% off, depending on where I sell it. On a $325 locomotive that's $23. That's great if it sells in a week, but when it starts to gather dust where are you going? |
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ST974
New Member
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Post by ST974 on Nov 15, 2024 6:05:18 GMT -8
Does anyone find it funny that Horizon will pay huge amounts of money to sponsor a race car but won't even spend much less advertising dollars in Model Railroad News? They also don't send their items to that magazine staff or other places hardly at all anymore. That is why they probably have so much stock sitting around in their warehouse. Not everyone goes to their Facebook page. That's another rumored change that was directly attributed to the brand manager. But if it's Horizon's decision to stop all Athearn advertising then they are intentionally trying to kill the brand.
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jimw
New Member
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Post by jimw on Nov 15, 2024 6:55:58 GMT -8
Since you are pointing the comments about Athearn Product Management to me, I feel it is only fair to answer them. There is a lot of the day to day operations you frankly are not aware of concerning Athearn / Horizon and what my specific roles are. Many of the items you point out are outside of my control as well as the Product Managers and artist. I take exception at the comment of me having "low energy" or do not promote the brand how you think it should be promoted. I am honored to work for Athearn as a life long model railroad hobbyist and left a higher paying job to come work with the Athearn team. I'm also honored to work with a team that is not only building exceptional models but also creating new ones. I have put my heart and soul into the brand and fought many battles that you have no idea about, so excuse me if I take exception to you painting me with your broad brush of ignorance. You mention previous Brand Managers of Athearn, and have compared them as better brand managers then myself. In some ways you are correct but again you don't know the limitations of the current role of Brand Manager. I know both of the gentlemen you name, and one of them, I would consider a friend. Their roles were vastly different due to the Horizon management style that was in place at the time of their tenure. It should be noted that there is an Athearn Manager than I and others report to and he ultimately reports to Horizon. When I came on board in late 2020 the management architecture had been redrawn since my predecessor. With that said there are a few things you should know regarding my role: 1. I do not control what models are announced, what roads are selected or when the announced models will be in stock. 2. I have no control over the Athearn website. the website is controlled by a Horizon web team. Previous Brand Managers had access to the previous website and in the last days of the previous website, I did as well as I worked on the new monthly announcements. once the new website was in place we immediately received feedback from modelers like you and I brought this information to the web team. No one in this forum except maybe Janek knows how many meetings, arguments, frustrations and set backs I have had with the current website. the only input I have is what you see visually on the front page. I'm still fighting for these improvements and so is my manager. to say the website is frustrating is a huge understatement. 3. I have no control over when items are shipped. I realize we have a back log, but that is not myself or anyone else who works at Athearn. We have a factory overseas and Covid as well as the chip shortage helped create that back log. 4. Shows: I have tried to get out more to shows but it is a constant struggle with the budget. Like it or not I am constrained by a budget so going to every shop or show is not feasible. The other issue you do not realize is I am an hourly employee, currently over time is not an option so I'm extremely limited on "time away from my desk" and focusing on the day to day operations that keep Athearn in view of modelers and dealers. Were it up to me, I would travel a lot more to shows and shops, I like talking with fellow modelers and hear what they have to say (good and bad) and what they are working on, however my constraints are no different and if I want to continue to work for Athearn, then I have to work within those confines. 5. We as a manufacturer are not perfect, we never have claimed to be and if I were to tell you different, it would be lie. That said, we don't go out of way to bring you to anger by deliberately making bad products. In the past few years, we have been honest about issues and have taken steps to correct them such as the SD60M Tri-Clops, Amtrak #46 and recently the SDP40 fans on the Amtrak models. 6. I am human, I'm a real person, I make mistakes and by no means perfect. Rather than attack a company or it's employees, why not try to open a dialog. What changes do you want to see? What do you think we could do better? Better yet, talk to me at a show, but be civil. 7. The statement Horizon doesn't care about Athearn or that is letting it die. You forget that tooling for new projects requires financing and all the new tooling for projects such as AC4400CWs, Acid Tank cars in N, refinements to older models such as lit number boards and class lights on Geeps and the recently re-tooled F7A have been paid for by Horizon. Sure, we have our struggles within the corporation but that is true with any corporation that is a for profit entity. I'm sorry my Mel Gibson style fights with Horizon management have not been as vocal or visual as you may like to see, however if I'm to stay employed, I'm going to work within my confines along with my other Athearn coworkers. I've worked within the hobby industry in some capacity for over 25 years. I know a lot of others in the industry who have had to put up with remarks and vitriol like this and some of those folks not only left the industry, but left the hobby and want nothing to do with it. When I took on the role a few years back, I promised myself that if my career at Athearn started to ruin the passion I have for model railroading, that I would leave the industry and enjoy my hobby as a lone wolf. Threads like this certainly have me thinking about that. Respectfully, Jim Wiggin I appreciate the thorough response and I understand you have different challenges and a different environment than your predecessors. However, I have many contacts in this hobby and unless they are all wrong, there are some decisions you made that were stark differences from Chris. The change was immediate so unless Horizon used the change in Manager to jump on some institutional changes, it can only be tied to your changes and decision making. So I find it hard to believe you aren't responsible for some changes. There are also several specific instances I could point to that would be handled far differently and frankly better by your predecessors regardless of institutional changes. But pointing these out in a public forum will get us no further in the discussion. The only point I can leave you with is perhaps you should move on to other employment. Not because of criticisms here but I think you should worry about Horizons poor management of your brand. The only reason your sales aren't completely in the tank is because Scaletrains and Rapido has extended some grace in their model and paint scheme selections. Without proper improvements, marketing and interest generation; I could see Athearn reducing to the point where your job is in jeopardy of being cut. I wouldn't want that shakey job security. ScaleTrains and Rapido are far better with diesels and Broadway Stealth paired with an ESU decoder or hell even Paragon 4 is better than the aging steam tooling and Soundtraxx decoder that has sounded practically the same since my first product from them in 2008.. Best of wishes on your future endeavors at Horizon or elsewhere. The hobby will not pause at the news of your departure but not many are missed. I actually appreciate your response and thank you for your candor. Yes there were some changes that took place as soon as I took over, and some changes I did not have any involvement at all. That is water under the bridge as you have pointed out. I know the hobby will not be paused in my departure, I'm sorry if that came across as self serving. With that said, what do you think could be done better regarding marketing Athearn? It's an honest question and I feel all input good or bad is important. I can't fix everything that we have discussed but within the realm of Marketing I'm willing to hear you and others out. I'm not perfect and perhaps some of the things I may have changed are not working, it doesn't necessarily mean we can't go back. While I cannot guarantee that every suggestion will be implemented, I'm willing to listen to what you want to see from Athearn. I can also say the same for Janek, he is working tirelessly on new announcements and does his level best to offer items we all want. Respectfully, Jim Wiggin |
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ST974
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Post by ST974 on Nov 15, 2024 7:01:57 GMT -8
I appreciate the thorough response and I understand you have different challenges and a different environment than your predecessors. However, I have many contacts in this hobby and unless they are all wrong, there are some decisions you made that were stark differences from Chris. The change was immediate so unless Horizon used the change in Manager to jump on some institutional changes, it can only be tied to your changes and decision making. So I find it hard to believe you aren't responsible for some changes. There are also several specific instances I could point to that would be handled far differently and frankly better by your predecessors regardless of institutional changes. But pointing these out in a public forum will get us no further in the discussion. The only point I can leave you with is perhaps you should move on to other employment. Not because of criticisms here but I think you should worry about Horizons poor management of your brand. The only reason your sales aren't completely in the tank is because Scaletrains and Rapido has extended some grace in their model and paint scheme selections. Without proper improvements, marketing and interest generation; I could see Athearn reducing to the point where your job is in jeopardy of being cut. I wouldn't want that shakey job security. ScaleTrains and Rapido are far better with diesels and Broadway Stealth paired with an ESU decoder or hell even Paragon 4 is better than the aging steam tooling and Soundtraxx decoder that has sounded practically the same since my first product from them in 2008.. Best of wishes on your future endeavors at Horizon or elsewhere. The hobby will not pause at the news of your departure but not many are missed. I actually appreciate your response and thank you for your candor. Yes there were some changes that took place as soon as I took over, and some changes I did not have any involvement at all. That is water under the bridge as you have pointed out. I know the hobby will not be paused in my departure, I'm sorry if that came across as self serving. With that said, what do you think could be done better regarding marketing Athearn? It's an honest question and I feel all input good or bad is important. I can't fix everything that we have discussed but within the realm of Marketing I'm willing to hear you and others out. I'm not perfect and perhaps some of the things I may have changed are not working, it doesn't necessarily mean we can't go back. While I cannot guarantee that every suggestion will be implemented, I'm willing to listen to what you want to see from Athearn. I can also say the same for Janek, he is working tirelessly on new announcements and does his level best to offer items we all want. Respectfully, Jim Wiggin Jim, I sent you a private message on what I think could be done better. |
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Post by rockisland652 on Nov 15, 2024 7:56:00 GMT -8
Does anyone find it funny that Horizon will pay huge amounts of money to sponsor a race car but won't even spend much less advertising dollars in Model Railroad News?...But if it's Horizon's decision to stop all Athearn advertising then they are intentionally trying to kill the brand. Really? For clarity, I suggest Page 13, October 2024 issue, Model Railroad News. Need more? Page 15, August 2024 RMC. Page 8, September 2024 RMC. MR is a pamphlet these days, with their complete restructuring and new ownership, so I can understand holding off until the dust settles over by there. Did it even occur to you that RC car sales might just dwarf our preferred niche hobby sales dollars at Horizon, thus the race car sponsorship?  |
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Post by typhoon on Nov 15, 2024 8:42:37 GMT -8
Does anyone find it funny that Horizon will pay huge amounts of money to sponsor a race car but won't even spend much less advertising dollars in Model Railroad News? They also don't send their items to that magazine staff or other places hardly at all anymore. That is why they probably have so much stock sitting around in their warehouse. Not everyone goes to their Facebook page. That's another rumored change that was directly attributed to the brand manager. But if it's Horizon's decision to stop all Athearn advertising then they are intentionally trying to kill the brand. I doubt the lack of advertising in a form of media that is on its last legs has much to do at all with their sales. |
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Post by gevohogger on Nov 15, 2024 9:01:14 GMT -8
We've been hearing the "Athearn is dying!" babble for years now. I remember reading a long essay about 25 years ago suggesting "the writing is on the wall" and Athearn was going to be left in the dust. Of course, six months later they introduced their all-new "Genesis" line and just like that new life was breathed into the company. Are we facing another low point in Athearn's history? Time will tell, but hopefully better days are ahead. Does this constant beating of dead horses and dragging through the mud by Thmy/ST974 do us any good? I doubt it. I really do think he is rooting for them to fail.
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Post by sd40dash2 on Nov 15, 2024 9:10:24 GMT -8
Does this constant beating of dead horses and dragging through the mud by Thmy/ST974 do us any good? I doubt it. I really do think he is rooting for them to fail. Could they be a disgruntled ex-employee? Are they all accounted for and which of them would be most likely to keep harping on such issues? |
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Post by hovehicle on Nov 15, 2024 9:15:26 GMT -8
Athearn is still my favorite company, and I've been in the hobby nearly 50 years. Next year in April I will reach that mark. I grew up with Athearn blue box, and have many good many memories just building kits and making up some small trains on a 4x8 layout.
OK, now with the current reality. I can't believe that delivery times are such a mystery. The Versacoils and NSC gons are a case in point. Will they make it by April 2025? That would be a fun delivery to celebrate my 50th. Also, how in the world do you not try to release just 1 newly tooled vehicle to go with the SD70ACU, ES44AC,etc. is beyond me. Try one, say a 2015 Ford F-150 OR Ford Explorer, and see how it sells. Definitely fits better with all of the modern diesels and freight cars. The Freightliner cabover and Ford C cab are way too old in the current era. The newest gen Cascadia pulling one of your 53' trailers would look great, just saying...
Thanks,
Vito L.
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thmy
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Post by thmy on Nov 15, 2024 10:41:56 GMT -8
Does this constant beating of dead horses and dragging through the mud by Thmy/ST974 do us any good? I doubt it. I really do think he is rooting for them to fail. Could they be a disgruntled ex-employee? Are they all accounted for and which of them would be most likely to keep harping on such issues? Not everyone who disagrees with a company's poor decisions is a disgruntled ex employee. I am not one, but I know ex employees and they're quiet and happy they made the decision to jump ship before it really began to take on water. People who are silent about Athearns failures are the ones more complacent with its possible doom. Not the vocal ones trying to inspire change and improvement. |
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Post by rockisland652 on Nov 15, 2024 10:46:41 GMT -8
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thmy
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Post by thmy on Nov 15, 2024 11:21:51 GMT -8
Tough talk keyboard warrior. I guarantee you wouldn't say it face to face. Lots of companies need improvement so lots of companies get criticism. Free country and they are out there to earn my hard earned money not me kissing their asses like you do. |
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Post by rockisland652 on Nov 15, 2024 11:30:20 GMT -8
I guarantee you wouldn't say it face to face. Lots of companies need improvement so lots of companies get criticism. So, Mr. Wonderful, you don't want the job or can't do the job? Which is it? Ok. That may be asking too much from you. How about this. Let's see some of your work then. Put up or... |
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thmy
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Post by thmy on Nov 15, 2024 11:43:25 GMT -8
So, Mr. Wonderful, you don't want the job or can't do the job? Which is it? Ok. That may be asking too much from you. How about this. Let's see some of your work then. Put up or... I've been retired for 18 years, I am not working anywhere nor am I taking a mandate from some internet punk wanna be bully who would cower at a man in public but all of a sudden has testicles on the internet. I don't have to show you my work because you aren't entitled to it. I could have done absolutely zero in this hobby and I still have a right to publicly air requests to companies as a paying customer. I'm sorry you would prefer to live in China where no one has a voice, maybe you should move there. Do me a favor and go to the Athearn factory and see what the hold up is while you're moving in to your apartment. |
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