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Post by trebor on Jul 19, 2013 7:41:16 GMT -8
What was that again, Curt? "The SDP45 would be very expensive to do considering the few owners and the lack of other projects that could use the chassis. Would take two body styles alone just to do EL/CR and GN/BN, and then you have the SP ones with even more variations (and if you are thinking about the later MK rebuilt speed lettered 1990s version then due to those being MK rebuilds almost every one was different from the other 5). It is also one of those units where many think it would be really cool to have one - up until the day so many can easily buy them and they loose that "only person on the block to have one" appeal. It happened in brass on them, and by the way, I doubt if Union Terminal would have done their recent brass run if there was even a hint of any plastic manufacturer even thinking of doing them. It could happen... someday... but right now there are several things pointing against it being anytime soon." Read more: atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/thread/1366/athearns-next-announcement-july-13th?page=2#ixzz2ZUpbK94iNah nah, I'm placing order tomorrow for 2 ea. of SP GN and EL and am waiting for CR and CR patch. To honor ALL the SDP45 nay-sayers, , I'm going to run a BAR passenger train with a BL2 SDP45 and a NdeM centepede just for Curt
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Post by carrman on Jul 19, 2013 7:48:30 GMT -8
Some people would bitch if they were hung with a new rope.By the way the SDP45 was what I voted for so I guess I get lucky sometimes. And Al said voting did not matter. Now if we can talk them into a N scale version. I don't think at the price of the model, we should not bitch if it not right. I am one of Athearn's biggest critics at times. I understand preproduction models things are not always the way they should be. But in this day and age there is no reason why Athearn can't get these right from the start. I am sure there are plenty of historical groups that would be willing to help Athearn get things right. I am a EL modeler so I am very happy to see the SDP45. But the preproduction model is not right it has a glaring error. The EL units should have low profile fans on the entire engine. The preproduction unit has regular height fans in the dynamic brake position. This is OK for a CR unit which is what Athearn worked off of at VRM. If this is not corrected this unit is no good to me, There are no after market low profile fan available to switch these out. Plus Athearn got this right on SD45-2 so Why not the SDP45. These units never ran on the EL without all Low profile fans. this was a CR modification. I look at it like this, if you went to the car dealer and purchased a car with options XYZ. You would expect XYZ to be on the car when you picked it up. If not you would complain(bitch) to the dealer. I see no difference with expecting a new model to be right. Just my 2 cents Erik Patience, these are deco samples and details can sometimes not be perfect. I've expressed the concerns to a contact at Athearn. Dave
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Post by calzephyr on Jul 19, 2013 8:07:10 GMT -8
51 of this prototype were sold. Interesting model and rare overall. EL had the most units of this series. Larry
thanks to EMD unofficial list
Order # Date Serial Numbers Model Road Numbers Qty. Weight Remarks 7174 05.69 to 06.69 34976-34994 SDP45 EL 3635-3653 18 . . 7246 07.70 to 08.70 36658-36665 SDP45 EL 3654-3661 8 . . 7246 08.70 36880-36886 SDP45 EL 3662-3668 7 . . 7979 07.67 to 08.67 33041-33048 SDP45 GN 326-333 8 . . 7955 05.67 to 07.67 32849-32858 SDP45 SP 3200-3209 10
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Post by stevef45 on Jul 19, 2013 8:30:54 GMT -8
didn't a railroad in mexica, TFM? get a few of these aswell as KCS?
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Post by middledivision on Jul 19, 2013 8:43:52 GMT -8
My money is safe with this one. I will pick one up if I can get it cheap.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 9:09:09 GMT -8
didn't a railroad in mexica, TFM? get a few of these aswell as KCS? Those were SDP40's not 45's.
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Post by theengineshed on Jul 19, 2013 9:58:27 GMT -8
I've just watched the Athearn video. I'm impressed. They do seem to have the extra mile in regards to detail variations...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 9:58:46 GMT -8
Dude that is a MODEL PHOTOSHOPPED on real track. See the Kadee coupler hose............
Hi Jim,
The track looks like Micro Engineering to me, as evident by the mold seam/parting line along the tops of the ties. Obviously it was taken outside in natural sunlight, which gives the shot an overall more realistic appearance, in my opinion, always better for model photography! Also, though the plow and beacon may be inaccurate in this pre-production shot, we still have 6-10 months before they arrive. I'm sure Athearn could remedy this by then. So relax my man, it's all good...
DonnellI'd be with you, BUT the winterization hatch has me worried. Athearn has that hatch plastered all over their list of features and seem very proud of it! HERE IS MY BEEF.......now mind you the GN SDP45 is my FAVORITE choo choo of all time..... Who the heck is doing the research at Athearn? ? Athearn stands to gross hundreds of thousands of dollars on just the GN version. You would think they could AFFORD to buy or borrow some books on the Great Northern's diesels during the Sky Blue era. There are BEAUTIFUL color photographs of the ROOF of GN SDP45's in Jim Boyd's book "Burlington Northern - Volume One - The Urge To Merge"(Morning Sun Books). Boyd's volume one covered the four merger partners in their final years leading up to March 2, 1970. There are many photos contained in Joseph Shine's book "Great Northern Diesels - Volume Two"(Four Ways West). There are many slides and photographs available too. Yet, they STILL get it wrong? ? The winterization hatch is not an easy fix, should the production model come equipped with that part. More than likely there will be holes drilled in the roof to attach the hatch and the hatch may also be glued down. There are other details on the GN version that need to be corrected, but I seriously doubt that Athearn has any intention of listening or consulting the proper GN historians and modelers. I've e-mailed Athearn and posted on their Facebook page my concerns and criticisms. I know Athearn doesn't care one bit about my observations, I just wish they would open their eyes and look at the many photos available in books, online, etc.. But as long as the Benjamin's rool in fill up their pockets on this model, mistakes and all, who cares.
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Post by ambluco on Jul 19, 2013 10:08:32 GMT -8
My understanding these are made like the new GPs - modular. No one said the fan/hatch area is set in stone for a "GN mold".
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Post by atsfan on Jul 19, 2013 10:14:53 GMT -8
Didn't EL have one of these in the Bicentennial scheme?
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Post by cnj3676 on Jul 19, 2013 11:20:20 GMT -8
Yes, the 3638 was one of two units painted in Erie Lackawanna's Bicentennial scheme. SD45 3632 was the other.
Addressing the concerns regarding low profile fans being included on the EL unit as mentioned above, Athearn's website specifically mentions the inclusion of low profile details in its description of the EL version so no worries there.
Bob
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Post by Donnell Wells on Jul 19, 2013 11:33:57 GMT -8
I'd be with you, BUT the winterization hatch has me worried. Athearn has that hatch plastered all over their list of features and seem very proud of it! HERE IS MY BEEF.......now mind you the GN SDP45 is my FAVORITE choo choo of all time..... Who the heck is doing the research at Athearn, Stevie Wonder? ? Athearn stands to gross hundreds of thousands of dollars on just the GN version. You would think they could AFFORD to buy or borrow some books on the Great Northern's diesels during the Sky Blue era. There are BEAUTIFUL color photographs of the ROOF of GN SDP45's in Jim Boyd's book "Burlington Northern - Volume One - The Urge To Merge"(Morning Sun Books). Boyd's volume one covered the four merger partners in their final years leading up to March 2, 1970. There are many photos contained in Joseph Shine's book "Great Northern Diesels - Volume Two"(Four Ways West). There are many slides and photographs available too. Yet, they STILL get it wrong? ? The winterization hatch is not an easy fix, should the production model come equipped with that part. More than likely there will be holes drilled in the roof to attach the hatch and the hatch may also be glued down. There are other details on the GN version that need to be corrected, but I seriously doubt that Athearn has any intention of listening or consulting the proper GN historians and modelers. I've e-mailed Athearn and posted on their Facebook page my concerns and criticisms. I know Athearn doesn't care one bit about my observations, I just wish they would open their eyes and look at the many photos available in books, online, etc.. But as long as the Benjamin's rool in fill up their pockets on this model, mistakes and all, who cares. Whoa! Slow down Jim...these are just decorated samples, NOT the finished product. Decorated samples are just that, samples to look over and check for errors, and to make revisions and/or improvements before final production. Also keep in mind that the model is being built in China, not here at Athearn, so there is a chance that the Chinese factory could make mistakes or misinterpret instructions during assembly. But again, that's what the deco-samples are for. I don't think Athearn would go to such great lengths to produce a model this good, with all the detail shown, only to drop the ball on a such a prominent detail such as the snowplow. I'm also sure they noted the differences between the SP and GN plows, but again, China could have inadvertently placed the wrong plow on the sample. The winterization hatch is another detail that can be omitted on the early GN units, however, it also could have been there just for a placement/fit test.
Anyhow, I believe they are more than willing to listen to us regarding the details of this, or any other project they have in the works. However, one thing I can assure you is that you will get nowhere with them, or any manufacturer for that matter, calling them "idiots" and inferring that they are as "blind as Stevie Wonder"...
Donnell
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Post by mlehman on Jul 19, 2013 11:43:37 GMT -8
The winterization hatch can also be omitted on the early GN units, however, it also could have been there just for a placement/fit test.... Donnell [/font][/quote] Yeah, exactly my thoughts. That's just a clue that other versions will come...down the railroad a bit. If you're going to do investment in a model with multiple versions, even if all aren't produced in the first run, it makes sense that the tooling be completed as a set. Just too many chances of things going wrong to leave details for a second run out. It's likely cheaper to do it upfront as a package in any case. So it's about time the speculation on the second run starts...wait, it already has BTW, I was also musing that mfgs may like to leave such things there to find, just to keep the discussion going. This is the social media age, they're just scratching that part of the marketing itch, at least in some cases. Keep 'em on their toes guys, just in case it's a real mistake
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Post by lee1234 on Jul 19, 2013 12:55:22 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2013 12:59:16 GMT -8
Anyhow, I believe they are more than willing to listen to us regarding the details of this, or any other project they have in the works. However, one thing I can assure you is that you will get nowhere with them, or any manufacturer for that matter, calling them "idiots" and inferring that they are as "blind as Stevie Wonder"... Donnell I was a little harsh and meant it. If I were to place reservations with my dealer by the due date of August 24, 2013 and it arrives next year with the winterization hatch, incorrect plow, beacon and some issues I see with the fitting of the tooling, I'm in a tough spot. If I refuse the models, my dealer is going to want to beat me with a baseball bat and possibly refuse to honor any future reservations. If I accept a model that has a gross detailing error, I feel like a chump. No matter how I look at it, I am the loser. Unless there is some epiphany at Athearn, the GN version is coming with the hatch drilled and glued to roof or they wouldn't have listed the hatch as a feature. Number three on the list of highlights of this model, if I remember correctly. The hatch didn't come into play on these until the late 70's early 80's on BN and THAT was after BN removed the water fills to flatten the walkway and remove the steam generator stack and plate over the side venting. I'd lay money on the errors not being fixed, but unfortunately I will not be around to say to everyone, I told you so.
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Post by jlwii2000 on Jul 19, 2013 13:07:23 GMT -8
I was a little harsh and meant it. If I were to place reservations with my dealer by the due date of August 24, 2013 and it arrives next year with the winterization hatch, incorrect plow, beacon and some issues I see with the fitting of the tooling, I'm in a tough spot. If I refuse the models, my dealer is going to want to beat me with a baseball bat and possibly refuse to honor any future reservations. If I accept a model that has a gross detailing error, I feel like a chump. No matter how I look at it, I am the loser. Unless there is some epiphany at Athearn, the GN version is coming with the hatch drilled and glued to roof or they wouldn't have listed the hatch as a feature. Number three on the list of highlights of this model, if I remember correctly. The hatch didn't come into play on these until the late 70's early 80's on BN and THAT was after BN removed the water fills to flatten the walkway and remove the steam generator stack and plate over the side venting. I'd lay money on the errors not being fixed, but unfortunately I will not be around to say to everyone, I told you so. ----------------------------------------------- In response to your comment above (that for some reason won't go into a bubble).... A good dealer would say "oh it's incorrect per the prototype?" send it back no problem. On a side note, I spoke to Athearn when they were up there and I think I THINK, not positive Shane Wilson mentioned the winterization hatch not being correct and that the factory would fix it for the production run. Since I am not an SDP45 buff, I could be wrong. One thing I know for sure is he mentioned that Athearn would go over the pre production models and make adjustments so the factory got it right on the actual production model. I'm fairly new into model railroading and I even know that pre production models are usually all messed up. It's the factories signal to the manufacturer to say "Is this right?" then the manufacturer comes back and says "you messed up this, this and this...FIX IT!"
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Post by roadkill on Jul 19, 2013 13:10:30 GMT -8
I thought it was proven this engine was never to be produced ? Yea... I remember reading that too. Crow... it's what's for dinner
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Post by atsfan on Jul 19, 2013 13:58:03 GMT -8
There is no need to pre order these. Many dealers will have them available for sale post release. Not forever, but for awhile.
So I suggest pooring a cold one and relaxing for a year. By then reality will be shown and a decision can be made.
I don't pre order anything, but am able to get whatever I want after release if I act in a decent period of time.
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Post by roadkill on Jul 19, 2013 14:06:58 GMT -8
There is no need to pre order these. Many dealers will have them available for sale post release. Not forever, but for awhile. So I suggest pooring a cold one and relaxing for a year. By then reality will be shown and a decision can be made. I don't pre order anything, but am able to get whatever I want after release if I act in a decent period of time. That's my plan too. They'll be out there, and undoubtedly another run or two will follow not too far behind. I'm sure Athearn's eager to get the SP SD40-3 rebuilds in production.
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Post by shoofly on Jul 19, 2013 14:11:32 GMT -8
The only three things I can say are: 1) I was wrong because I though Athearn had better judgement of the demand 2) Every manufacturer has made poor production decisions before. Time will tell on this one. 3) At least now we won't have any more postings from the vocal few asking for them (at least until the complaints about the Athearn one being too expensive, having wrong details, not being a Kato...) Damn Curt, kind of harsh don't you think. Due to modular construction like the GP38-2 and having already a pretty good cache or parts already tooled, it makes doing locos like these a little more economical. We've been down this road before in another thread. Best to leave Athearn economics to Athearn. They saw opportunity where others saw nothing. Model Railroad business is hit and miss, I have a strong indication to "hit" on this one. Chris
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Post by atsfan on Jul 19, 2013 14:15:11 GMT -8
I will defintely get a SP unit as these ran all the time next to ATSF in California. They are doing GN. Did these make it into BN Green? That would be nice in a second run. I bet they do EL Bicentennial down the road also. That engine is the best Bicentennial Paint Scheme hand's down.
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Post by roadkill on Jul 19, 2013 14:18:02 GMT -8
I will defintely get a SP unit as these ran all the time next to ATSF in California. They are doing GN. Did these make it into BN Green? That would be nice in a second run. I bet they do EL Bicentennial down the road also. That engine is the best Bicentennial Paint Scheme hand's down.I don't know... N&W's was pretty damn sweet. But *when* Athearn produces the EL Bicentenial I'll be there with credit card in hand
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Post by bdhicks on Jul 19, 2013 22:51:10 GMT -8
didn't a railroad in mexica, TFM? get a few of these aswell as KCS? The TFM (now KCSM) only had SDP40s, no SDP45s, however their SDP40s have the same notched short hood with recessed brakewheel as the SDP45s. Two of them were converted to SD22ECOs and now serve on KCS.
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Post by ambluco on Jul 20, 2013 3:27:30 GMT -8
Looks like they answered Jim on Facebook on some of the issues. They already notified the factory of the plow issue. Also, the test EL version didn't have low-profile fans over the DB but the rest were on the sample (a mix of fans). They notified the factory of that change too so they are all low profile fans. So as others have posted, they were test models and production is months out and there is time for tweaking. And because this is all modular, like the new GP38/50, it's much easier to make changes. The energy could have been saved for when the models actually arrive and if there is an issue. Other details which are incorrect on the GN version. 1.The snow plow is incorrect. It is much too large. GN's plow had a lower profile. 2. The rotary beacon is the wrong style. It should be the type that has a cap.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 5:54:13 GMT -8
The energy could have been saved for when the models actually arrive and if there is an issue. Horse hockey! "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"A couple of years ago at one of the big shows, Athearn rolled out their Genesis GP7/9. People IMMEDIATELY said and told Athearn the radiator grilles were too low on the long hood. The online forums lit up with the major flaw in the tooling. The first two runs of the GP7/9 came with the low radiator grilles and Athearn got eviscerated from online forums to Yahoo groups to every media known to man, except for maybe well known brown nosed magazine. After getting trashed and models not selling(my dealer still has the messed UP GP9 years later and can't sell them even at blow out pricing) Athearn announced....they were correcting the tooling. I'm sorry but pre-production models and their mistakes have a bad bad habit of becoming production models....with mistakes!!!! The GP7/9 fiasco is living proof, they were told and STILL didn't slow or halt the model to make corrections. My concerns is the GN SDP45 production will be a mirror image of the Milwaukee Road and Santa Fe FP45's. Its a one and done versions. Athearn produced ONLY one run of the FP45 in Milwaukee Road passenger armour yellow and harbour mist grey. Then they did Milwaukee Road freight in orange and black. Now..............the FP45 tooling sits collecting dust. Even the mighty Santa Fe passenger FP45's were one run each in the 100 and 5940 series. In other words, there will be one shot at full Great Northern. After that Athearn more than likely will do BN patch, BN green and black 9800 series and BN variations before retiring the tooling. A path Athearn has followed with nearly every Genesis model.
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Post by curtmc on Jul 20, 2013 6:28:17 GMT -8
LOL... Run what you want! I need a good chuckle at least a few times a day...
BTW, I've been known to run UP 3985 with the the full head end excursion consist (two ex-turbine water tenders, steps boxcar 24336, tool car, power/dorm, concessions car) and followed by just the UP Oscar and Piker...
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Post by curtmc on Jul 20, 2013 6:43:58 GMT -8
I bet Athearn will be doing the EL Bicentennial one, but will they also do the longer lasting Conrail patched version of it???
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Post by atsfan on Jul 20, 2013 7:06:40 GMT -8
I am not sure the tooling is "retired". Certainly sitting unused for now, but old tooling never really goes away usually.
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Post by middledivision on Jul 20, 2013 9:05:29 GMT -8
I bet Athearn will be doing the EL Bicentennial one, but will they also do the longer lasting Conrail patched version of it??? You bet your sweet *** they will! Look at the ex-CR EMD GP38-2's recently announced. They need to maximize their investment in the model.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Jul 20, 2013 9:38:20 GMT -8
YO! LOL, Yo I really respect everything that Australianterrier is saying! It is not because am siding with what he is saying BUT because I see that what he is saying is GENUINE coming from a fan of that exact engine. He said that is his favorite engine of all time and now they are producing it. He is pointing out what he feels was wrong, or could have been done to get EVEN THE TEST SHOTS CORRECT. Here is ALL I know that I could compare it too (Analogy)
If I said I was going to make some beautiful wedding cakes and sell them, then posted a picture of a "Test Cake", I am sure that people will expect to see "Fabulous" (Fruity word LOL), fabulous pictures of the "test cakes" Now if you see the pictures of a few cakes that look like I had MS (No disrespect to MS I am just trying to give you a visual) when spreading on the frosting, or the cake was lop sided. It is not going to make for a GOOD first impression. Now I know I could stress that they were just quick "test cakes" and expect you to understand that and get ready to pre-order my "REAL CAKES", BUT the reality of the matter is I should have provided pictures of a perfect or HIGHLY HIGHLY good looking "test cake" Without having to excuse my frosting mishap, lopsided cake shape, incorrect 'DOO-DOO BROWN" colored flowers or misspelling of the word "WEEDING CAKE" (LOL). Then I would not have to (ALWAYS) tell everyone the wording will be corrected when I actually make your cake, the flowers will definitely be the pretty red color you expect and the shell (frosting) will be smooth when I do these for you.
Athearn ALWAYS presents EARLY "Test Models" at these train shows and events with dumb little flaws that should not be there and HAD they had consulted someone who knew about the model extensively then they would not have to be EXCUSING this or that and EXPLAINING how the "real" model will be done correctly when we release it. My point is Athearn AND other companies do all that BS explaining over and over again with every "TEST MODEL RELEASE"
Do you think Athearn or anyone else will read this and agree? Do you think they will say it makes sense so when they announce their "newest" model release with "TEST MODEL SHOTS" later this year, do you think there will be none of those little dumb flaws that could have been corrected by PROPER RESEARCH? NO, there will be another post like this to ANOTHER passionate fan of whatever model they announce next time around.
So I respect what you have said Australianterrier and ANYONE in your shoes with a model they LOVE being released. Now I am INSPIRED to go make some CUSTOM ghetto a*s cakes and sell them to the grocery store for big money! Wish me luck fellas!
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