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Post by atsfan on Aug 7, 2013 17:53:12 GMT -8
LOL is Laugh out Loud.
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Post by MONSTERRAILROAD on Aug 7, 2013 19:36:23 GMT -8
Must have been one heck of a conversation! As far as Model Railroader, I personally have posted on their forum a handful of times. I just don't frequent the place. As far as confrontations on forums, myself and others on this forum, including our host Donnell, have clashed with the owner of a certain model railroad forum and have been banned. For us its almost a badge of courage. If you haven't been banned, given a time out or scolded on a model railroading forum, you haven't lived! Nine times out of ten the head butting is the result of a personality clash. That was the first and only Forum I've ever been banned from. I don't think of it as a badge of courage, more like a badge of embarrassment. I was a member there for probably 10 years and I did have my fair share of confrontations, lol. I stopped that years ago though, it just wasn't worth my time anymore. I got some bad news about a family member a few days before I was banned and it really bothered me. Someone sent me a Private Message telling me basically to mind my own business and in one of the stupidest moves I've made in my life I told him to go, ........ you get the idea. He sent the message to Steve Otte I guess and I was banned for a month. It really bothered me and it seemed it was just another bad thing that was going on in my life. I phoned up Steve and told him if he doesn't unban me I was never going to buy another MR related article ever again. Honestly I think Steve was shocked that a dude from Canada would actually phone him, lol. Then Neil got involved and I was then banned for life. I apologized months later but they wouldn't let me back. Oh well, what can you do eh. I asked if I could tour their layout and offered to take them out for lunch when I was in town in July but they didn't even respond to my email. I found Steve's home address, went to his house and almost knocked on his door but then I thought that would really freak him out and didn't do it. I can see his face when I would say, DUDE, It's TA462 from Canada, lol. I'm sure the Cops and the SWAT team would have been called, lol. All over a Private Message............ Damn dawg you came on way too strong. You did some serious butt kissing after your banning and I would be embarrassed too if I did all that stuff you did. I am serious too. You were almost stalking status. I took the time to tell Neil to his face he and the team were full of it, and their games are horrendous for a "professional company" Sometimes you have to stand your ground when you are right OR when you feel strong about your position. Keep it real.
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Post by mlehman on Aug 7, 2013 20:56:46 GMT -8
excuse lower case, can't blame bramble some sort of scum killed him when out shooting rabbits am still weeping at his loss. my lower case this time...I fell from sitting in an unbalanced plastic garden chair and have two bone fractures in my left wrist.... SNIP what does lol mean please? 02-36hrs 08-08-13. Jim, Sorry to hear of your loss. We lost one of our cats about a month ago. Not sure whether it was stroke, he fell out of the tree or he fell off the roof. It was quick and I hope he just went to the light...been missing him a lot. Ouch on the wrist! Been there, done that. Hope everything heals OK, as some of those bones can be dicey. lol? = "laugh out loud" or a sign of amusement at what someone has written.
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TA462
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by TA462 on Aug 8, 2013 2:54:00 GMT -8
Al, your probably right. I will run into Steve Otte sometime in my life as I do go to a lot of the big shows in the States. I've met them all a few times now already.
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Post by powerglide on Aug 8, 2013 12:29:20 GMT -8
Neil who?
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Post by siouxlake on Aug 8, 2013 17:34:25 GMT -8
I used to subscribe to MR, loyally renewing my subscription annually. I still have plastic milk crates of old issues in the attic, but these days I buy it from WalMart or my local Hobbytown- I'd rather they get the few pennies profit from the sale. The way I see it, MR has ceased to have a diversity of authors of many of its articles. It seems that Pelle Soeborg is in every issue. As good as he is, all this does is assist him with preparing his next Kalmbach book, by pacing out the individual chapters as a sequence of articles over several months. There is very little focus on the minutiae of the hobby- the small tips and tricks columns disappeared long ago, as they were viewed as irrelevant in a burgeoning era of RTR. The variety of advertisers has also dwindled- the smaller ones get far more visibility from being in a single issue of MRHobbyist than six months of issues in MR. Want ads are similarly irrelevant- the Internet offers far more venues for those personal ads and again, more potential visibility. MR raised its advertising rates and has suffered as a result. It will be a slow death spiral, but I believe that all their movement to push their on-line products and "services" is preparatory work for transformation to an Internet only magazine. Unfortunately for them, that niche is already being filled by others who made their move far earlier. The thin issues, where content is remedial, do nothing to increase their circulation numbers, and it may be that their MR Forum will become tied to online subscriptions as time goes on.
Siouxlake
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Post by Donnell Wells on Aug 8, 2013 18:30:09 GMT -8
Damn dawg you came on way too strong. You did some serious butt kissing after your banning and I would be embarrassed too if I did all that stuff you did. I am serious too. You were almost stalking status. I took the time to tell Neil to his face he and the team were full of it, and their games are horrendous for a "professional company" Sometimes you have to stand your ground when you are right OR when you feel strong about your position. Keep it real. Alright Monster, we're going to "keep it real" right now. I need you to stop using profanity in your posts.
Thanks, Donnell
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Post by atsfan on Aug 9, 2013 12:08:55 GMT -8
An Internet only MR will mean a non existant MR basically.
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Post by Brakie on Aug 9, 2013 19:57:48 GMT -8
An Internet only MR will mean a non existant MR basically. I suspect they may even gain subscribers by going digital..After upgrading to a Kindle Fire I buy all western novels from a on line e-book seller.I can even buy monthly issues of railroad magazines. I think paper books and magazines is going the way of the dodo bird.
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Post by atsfan on Aug 9, 2013 20:05:34 GMT -8
An Internet only MR will mean a non existant MR basically. I suspect they may even gain subscribers by going digital..After upgrading to a Kindle Fire I buy all western novels from a on line e-book seller.I can even buy monthly issues of railroad magazines. I think paper books and magazines is going the way of the dodo bird. Gain over the number they have now? No magazine has ever done that yet.
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Post by tdspeedracer on Aug 9, 2013 21:27:53 GMT -8
The primary reason I still subscribe to MRR is access to the track plans online.
As far as actual mag content goes, I should probably get RMC instead.
The magazine I really miss is Model RailroadING. Even that had it's drawbacks. If they covered anything of any interest to you at all, you got every bit of info you needed. Bad part was, a: it was drawn out through several months. b:there was a lot that didn't do me any good.
Trevor
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Post by shoofly on Aug 9, 2013 23:23:13 GMT -8
A lot of subscriber based periodicals are having trouble switching over to the new digital medium. Believe it or not, the publications that are experiencing growth and have expanded their readership are the ones free to their reader base, and completely advertiser supported. Those interested in proof are welcome to check out the AFCP (Association of Free Community Papers) www.afcp.org/General/AboutIndustry.phpWhat subscriber paid publications are having trouble coming to terms with is that readers want what they're interested in, when they want to view it, delivered how they want it, for a competitive price (in most cases free) or they'll get it somewhere else. If you can't beat'm, join'm. If print pubs want to be in a business model that's expanding vs. shrinking. They will have to become a free publication and restructure their business accordingly. Many free pubs are thriving, experiencing new growth and increased advertiser support. Yet Sometimes old habits die hard, and with them their business. Chris Palomarez
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Post by atsfan on Aug 10, 2013 9:49:36 GMT -8
A lot of subscriber based periodicals are having trouble switching over to the new digital medium. Believe it or not, the publications that are experiencing growth and have expanded their readership are the ones free to their reader base, and completely advertiser supported. Those interested in proof are welcome to check out the AFCP (Association of Free Community Papers) www.afcp.org/General/AboutIndustry.phpWhat subscriber paid publications are having trouble coming to terms with is that readers want what they're interested in, when they want to view it, delivered how they want it, for a competitive price (in most cases free) or they'll get it somewhere else. If you can't beat'm, join'm. If print pubs want to be in a business model that's expanding vs. shrinking. They will have to become a free publication and restructure their business accordingly. Many free pubs are thriving, experiencing new growth and increased advertiser support. Yet Sometimes old habits die hard, and with them their business. Chris Palomarez Exactly. The new online only MRH surely is eating into MR paid subscribers. And it costs nothing. MR has more ads than MRH does. There are very few online enterprises that are making a real success out of charging for online content. Very few. The most successful online enterprises are free of course. Google and Facebook come to mind. They make $billions but are free. Of course they spy on you and record your every move and package it all up an sell you off.
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Post by shoofly on Aug 10, 2013 11:14:17 GMT -8
IMO MR should switch to a free online format, but charge the cost of printing for the physical pub. That may mean restrictions to number of pages they can print and the total print run might be half of what they do now. Charging for monthly advertising would be the source of income for the mag. This would probably be the hardest pill to swallow as it would mean 6 months to a year of building the readership back up and going through the pains of restructuring the mag to make it profitable under that model. It would give them more traffic to their website and possibly more people subscribing to MRVplus. Their Yearly pubs could continue on as being pay only, but would benefit from the increased readership of MR. More potential sales.
To me, if MR is to have a future, it should be a Free pub with a small print presence. The print presence is what would distinguish it from other free e-zines.
Being employed in the print publishing world, this is the model of business that's working. I've seen it flourish with Surfing magazines to news papers to arts and entertainment periodicals.
Chris Palomarez
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Post by Brakie on Aug 10, 2013 13:05:42 GMT -8
To me, if MR is to have a future, it should be a Free pub with a small print presence. The print presence is what would distinguish it from other free e-zines. ---------------------------------------------------- MRH is a free e-magazine that is supported by advertisers that pays for magazine ad space and thus MRH reminds of MR of the 50-90s that was fat with ads.
Why?
Nothing is "free" and the magazines host server charges for their services-look at the ads on this "free" forum..The advertisers is paying for the server that hosts this forum.
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Post by shoofly on Aug 10, 2013 14:40:20 GMT -8
Along with publication changes, so is advertising. The days of passive advertisement of hoping people see your print ad are being replaced by active types where the ad is specific to your interests. Those are the impressions that matter to advertisers these days, and that is how websites can offer free user services. Advertising is still a multibillion dollar industry, it's just changing where those billions are spent.
Chris
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Post by Brakie on Aug 10, 2013 16:17:25 GMT -8
Along with publication changes, so is advertising. The days of passive advertisement of hoping people see your print ad are being replaced by active types where the ad is specific to your interests. Those are the impressions that matter to advertisers these days, and that is how websites can offer free user services. Advertising is still a multibillion dollar industry, it's just changing where those billions are spent. Chris What makes it nice you can click on those ads in MRH and go directly to the manufacturers web site. IF MR followed MRH example-with good modeling articles MR would pick up new readers. Guys,I'm 65 but,love the idea of reading MR,Trains,Classic Trains,Railfan and of course my western novels on my Kindle Fire.. My coffee table has never look neater.
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TA462
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by TA462 on Aug 11, 2013 14:58:07 GMT -8
I see I've become a topic of discussion on the MR Forum again. I'm happy and sad all at the same time, lol. DN, give it a rest dude, they don't want me back. All your going to do is get yourself banned for a month or so. Remember what I said, learn what you can(you will learn a lot from those guys)and then move on. You only live once so enjoy it while you can.
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Post by grahamline on Sept 8, 2013 12:33:11 GMT -8
Surprise. Within the past month, I have noticed a reference to MRH that was allowed to stand on an MR modeling forum. Maybe they have changed their policy.
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Post by madlatvian on Sept 10, 2013 14:15:46 GMT -8
MR used to have BIG issues years ago (late 70's/ early 80') numbering 400+ pages- now that was a magazine worth reading and keeping- it would take me most of the month to get through it thoroughly- and I usually picked it up again and again because there was some much information in it. Now you can scan through it and read the highlights- such as they are in about 20-30 minutes..... after all the magazine is only 160-180 pages if you are lucky; what do I mean....we aren't lucky because the only time the page count goes up is if they have sold more ads. The editorial content is a joke compared to what it once was. And as someone pointed out- the cover date is always too far ahead of the magazine. They should just omit a month (cover month) not actually the magazine to get closer to relevance.
I guess it is time to get off my soapbox before I fall off. Thanks for the patience from everyone.
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Post by gasmith on Sept 10, 2013 20:02:02 GMT -8
MR is, quite frankly, getting to be a complete joke. No serious model railroader that I know takes Model Railroader seriously. The magazine has been dumbed down ever since Russ Larson became editor back in the 70s. (I've heard stories to the effect that he was hired strictly for his editing skills and that any knowledge of or interest in the hobby was strictly coincidental.) I always dreaded the January issue (This is HO Scale....., This is N Scale....., etc.)
IMHO MR long ago has ceased to be any kind of advocate for the hobby and is little more than a shill for the manufacturers. Product reviews are a joke. ("It. runs. well. and. follows. the. blueprints. I'm. sure. that. everyone. who. models. this. era. will. want. one.") What was their reaction to the practice of advance order/limited run for everything? An article on how to use eBay! The editorial reaction to the end of Polly Scale and Floquil? "Change is good!"("Hey, RPM/Testors/Floquil didn't buy many ads maybe we can get some new advertisers out of this!")expressed in an editorial that ended with a bit of snark IMHO.
The magazine has become little more than a monthly supplement to the Walthers Catalog. I'm no greenie, but it's sad that trees have to die for this junk.
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TA462
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Post by TA462 on Sept 12, 2013 12:41:12 GMT -8
MR is, quite frankly, getting to be a complete joke. No serious model railroader that I know takes Model Railroader seriously. The magazine has been dumbed down ever since Russ Larson became editor back in the 70s. (I've heard stories to the effect that he was hired strictly for his editing skills and that any knowledge of or interest in the hobby was strictly coincidental.) I always dreaded the January issue (This is HO Scale....., This is N Scale....., etc.) IMHO MR long ago has ceased to be any kind of advocate for the hobby and is little more than a shill for the manufacturers. Product reviews are a joke. ("It. runs. well. and. follows. the. blueprints. I'm. sure. that. everyone. who. models. this. era. will. want. one.") What was their reaction to the practice of advance order/limited run for everything? An article on how to use eBay! The editorial reaction to the end of Polly Scale and Floquil? "Change is good!"("Hey, RPM/Testors/Floquil didn't buy many ads maybe we can get some new advertisers out of this!")expressed in an editorial that ended with a bit of snark IMHO. The magazine has become little more than a monthly supplement to the Walthers Catalog. I'm no greenie, but it's sad that trees have to die for this junk. That might be true but it does get new people into the hobby because its geared more for the novice type modeller.
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Post by Brakie on Sept 13, 2013 2:29:23 GMT -8
Well,I'm years pass from being a newbie and as I mention I still enjoy reading MR on my Kindle Fire.
I think MR like everything else is what you get out of it..
I enjoy the reviews and find it refreshing that every model isn't ripped to shreds over a minor missing detail.
None the less MR reviews like the on line reviews salt is needed as well as good judgment.
Another thing online reviews needs far more then MR reviews is separating facts from personal vendettas or modeling style in these "reviews"..
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 6:10:11 GMT -8
MR is, quite frankly, getting to be a complete joke. No serious model railroader that I know takes Model Railroader seriously. The magazine has been dumbed down ever since Russ Larson became editor back in the 70s. (I've heard stories to the effect that he was hired strictly for his editing skills and that any knowledge of or interest in the hobby was strictly coincidental.) I always dreaded the January issue (This is HO Scale....., This is N Scale....., etc.) IMHO MR long ago has ceased to be any kind of advocate for the hobby and is little more than a shill for the manufacturers. Product reviews are a joke. ("It. runs. well. and. follows. the. blueprints. I'm. sure. that. everyone. who. models. this. era. will. want. one.") What was their reaction to the practice of advance order/limited run for everything? An article on how to use eBay! The editorial reaction to the end of Polly Scale and Floquil? "Change is good!"("Hey, RPM/Testors/Floquil didn't buy many ads maybe we can get some new advertisers out of this!")expressed in an editorial that ended with a bit of snark IMHO. The magazine has become little more than a monthly supplement to the Walthers Catalog. I'm no greenie, but it's sad that trees have to die for this junk. I've heard this refrain before.....but For all the "serious or prototype" modelers, and I consider myself to be a "serious prototype" modeler, why did Hundman's Mainline Modeler fold? Mainline Modeler was one intense magazine. MM had detailed drawings nearly every issue, the scratch building projects were fabulous and sometimes very difficult even for a seasoned builder, the authors excellent and the photography inspiring. Yet, MM had the smallest or one of the smallest circulations of the big five print magazines (MR, RMC, MRing, RMJ and MM). So if MR didn't cut it for some, where they supporting Mainline Modeler? Who, besides myself, subscribed to MM? I truly wish MM had survived, but in his final editorial, I remember Robert Hundman saying much of the content of the magazine was landing on his shoulders to author and he couldn't keep it up. Which brings about the question, what did many of us "serious prototype" modelers do to write and submit articles for publication to highlight our modeling prowess? I did nothing!!! Just paid my subscription and sat back and let others do the heavy lifting as far as authoring well written and photographed prototype and modeling articles. Shame on me and many others for letting the finest model railroading magazine die. What happened to Prototype Modeler magazine? It like MM was aimed at the advanced modeler....it too disappeared into the sunset in the early 1990's(if I remember correctly) with little fanfare. Where were all the "serious prototype" modelers? Next magazine to die due to lack of subscribers was Model Railroading. Ing, as many call it, was written for the more intermediate to experienced modeler. Yet, it still died from lack of interest? Railmodel Journal, seemed to be built on a shoestring. The printing in many of the early issues of RMJ was awful. Photos were or were nearly unreadable. Print was smudged too. But it got turned around and made into a very professional magazine with emphasis on prototype modeling and layouts. The final editorial by RMJ's editor Robert Schleicher, sounded much like Robert Hundman's and Randy Lee's(Ing) in which the magazine couldn't continue because of lack of subscribers, rising costs, etc. So "serious prototype" modelers continue to sneer at the "dumbed down", newbie orientated, "shill" product reviews, etc., etc., etc. Model Railroader......which continues to, or so I assume, make a profit and still boast a large subscriber base. Maybe there are not as many of us "serious prototype" modelers as we think there are? ?? Just saying........
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Post by Brakie on Sept 13, 2013 6:38:09 GMT -8
Jim: Maybe there are not as many of us "serious prototype" modelers as we think there are? ?? Just saying. ---------------------------------------- Well in my experience for every one "serious" modeler I met there was a baker's dozen average modelers that wasn't all that serious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2013 10:48:47 GMT -8
Jim: Maybe there are not as many of us "serious prototype" modelers as we think there are? ?? Just saying. ---------------------------------------- Well in my experience for every one "serious" modeler I met there was a baker's dozen average modelers that wasn't all that serious. To which MR and a lesser extent RMC is still good reading material. Enjoyment can still be found just thumbing through the pages of MR and RMC by some of us "serious prototype" modelers. It may not stimulate everyone of us on each and every page, but that is to be expected. Still just having a magazine dedicated to solely model railroading continues to be entertaining and sometimes enlightening.
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Post by grahamline on Sept 13, 2013 11:31:52 GMT -8
Mainline Modeler and Prototype Modeler rarely, if ever, got above 10,000 in circulation, so that should give some reading of how many "serious prototype modelers" are out there. Railmodel Journal was always more of a mix. Having been involved in hiring and working with writers in a couple different fields, I can say it's difficult to find people who are expert on a subject, can express themselves clearly, and are willing to work for the money that hobby magazines pay.
Postal rates and paper costs both made significant jumps right around the time MM, RMJ and PM folded. When their circulations dropped to around 5000, the numbers didn't work. None of them ever had much in the way of advertising, and were selling into a price-conscious market.
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Post by Rockin' Rick on Sept 26, 2013 9:26:52 GMT -8
Mainline Modeler and Prototype Modeler rarely, if ever, got above 10,000 in circulation, so that should give some reading of how many "serious prototype modelers" are out there. Railmodel Journal was always more of a mix. Having been involved in hiring and working with writers in a couple different fields, I can say it's difficult to find people who are expert on a subject, can express themselves clearly, and are willing to work for the money that hobby magazines pay. Postal rates and paper costs both made significant jumps right around the time MM, RMJ and PM folded. When their circulations dropped to around 5000, the numbers didn't work. None of them ever had much in the way of advertising, and were selling into a price-conscious market. I never subscribed to MM, but picked it up monthly for years, and stopped reading MR & RMC once I saw how superior it was. I was FAR from an accomplised prototype modeler (still getting there), but MM made me ASPIRE to greater things simply by its quality. I miss it greatly. But between MRH, websites like Jerry Britton's Keystone Crossings, and society publications like the PRRTHS's Keystone Modeler, I get what I need, and then some. I think this specialization is one of the keys to the demise of some of the less specialized publications.
Rick
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Post by Rockin' Rick on Sept 26, 2013 9:28:43 GMT -8
Oh yeah...left out the Steam Era Freight Cars group. TREMENDOUS resource.
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bigzmn
Junior Member
Posts: 91
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Post by bigzmn on Sept 28, 2013 12:00:21 GMT -8
MR must really be hurting. Some years ago my wife gave me a gift subscription for Christmas a couple of years in a row, but I dropped it. I think she was paying $40 to $42 a year. Yesterday I got an offer in the mail where I can get MR for $29.99 for a one year subscription. I still won't resubscribe.
Chris Z.
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