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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 3, 2012 16:58:30 GMT -8
Okay, I decided I wanted to ditch my old Zephyr, and bought a new Zephyr Xtra. The problems started when I turned in on for the first time. When you perform the address clearing function, you know, the "program, switch, 036, write" thing, it won't clear any of the addresses. It also shuts down from any momentary short, such as a metal wheel touching an Atlas turnout frog for a half second.
I've sent it back to Digitrax, and they tell me there is nothing wrong with it. If this is the way it's supposed to work, I don't want it. I'll be calling Digitrax in the morning, and express my displeasure with this thing. When I sent it in, I was very explicit with my description of the problem, and I can't believe they couldn't see what I was talking about.
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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 4, 2012 4:23:00 GMT -8
It was late last evening, and I had some additional issues at the time, so sorry about the rant. But, seriously, has anybody else had this trouble with a Zephyr? How did you fix it?
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Post by rhpd42002 on Jun 4, 2012 16:52:25 GMT -8
Sorry you're having Zephyr issues/problems, Terry. The rant is ok, we all need to do that sometimes!  I don't own a Zephyr, so I can't help you at all. This is probably "cliche'", but is there is anything in the instruction manual that addresses the problem? I must agree with you, though, if Digitrax can't fix it or that really is the way it's supposed to be, then I wouldn't want it either. And for the record, I have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder and have had for several years and am happy with it, but I want a Zephyr for my small, portable layout. Let us know how it goes when you call them. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 4, 2012 18:16:36 GMT -8
Sorry you're having Zephyr issues/problems, Terry. The rant is ok, we all need to do that sometimes! I don't own a Zephyr, so I can't help you at all. This is probably "cliche'", but is there is anything in the instruction manual that addresses the problem? I must agree with you, though, if Digitrax can't fix it or that really is the way it's supposed to be, then I wouldn't want it either. And for the record, I have a Digitrax Super Empire Builder and have had for several years and am happy with it, but I want a Zephyr for my small, portable layout. Let us know how it goes when you call them. I called them, talked to Brenda there. She said they played with my Zephyr for several days, but couldn't get it to do what I was describing. She really didn't know what to say when I told her I verified the short circuit shutdown 3 seconds after plugging it in and turning it on, and the lack of purging 35 seconds after that, when I tried inputting a new address, and got the "full" message. I can recall the last 20 addresses I used on it, even after it sitting at Digitrax for 2 weeks when they couldn't find the problem. That is, of course, after running the manual purging routine several times. I'm taking it to my LHS, 3 hours away, Saturday, so they can verify I'm running that correctly. If so, It's going back to Digitrax, with a copy of my first letter describing the problem, and a second letter telling them to fix it or refund my money if they can't fix it. That being the case, I won't have any further updates until Saturday evening at the earliest, after I drive 3 hours back home. |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 5, 2012 8:39:49 GMT -8
Um, isn't every DCC product equipped with a circuit breaker supposed to shut down after experiencing a short? And I thought that all Atlas switches are DCC Friendly, meaning it's impossible to short one out?
As for the OPSW036... That's another story. I dunno about that one.
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Post by Christian on Jun 5, 2012 9:01:46 GMT -8
Um, isn't every DCC product equipped with a circuit breaker supposed to shut down after experiencing a short? That would have been my reaction. A wheel spark on a frog should shut it down. But he is replacing an existing Zephyr which, I assume, isn't having either of these problems. Seems to me that there is an issue with the system that can't be replicated on Digi's factory test bench. Time for a refund and a look at NCE's equivalent unit. |
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nhguy
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Post by nhguy on Jun 5, 2012 10:20:03 GMT -8
Um, isn't every DCC product equipped with a circuit breaker supposed to shut down after experiencing a short? That would have been my reaction. A wheel spark on a frog should shut it down. But he is replacing an existing Zephyr which, I assume, isn't having either of these problems. Seems to me that there is an issue with the system that can't be replicated on Digi's factory test bench. Time for a refund and a look at NCE's equivalent unit. Yes. Most ALL DCC systems come with a built in circuit breaker for short protection to prevent damage to the system components. While a wheel spark on a frog happens a CB activation is mostly cause by an operator running a turnout thrown against the engine or train. That is where 95% of all shorts originate. The other 5% can be attributed to other sources such as tools on the track (don't ask me how I know this), engines parked over the power district insulators, broken wires or decoder failures. Are you sure you checked to see that there isn't something else causing the shorts to occur? How is your layout divided up? Is it one big circuit (power district) or have you divided it up into power districts using circuit breakers like those offered by DCC Specialties (Very highly recommend) PSX and AR series circuit breakers and auto reversers, Digitrax, Lenz and Tony's trains? As I am NOT a Digitrax user (or fan) and use NCE, I do not understand Digitrax's use of purging, dispatching and stealing that is available in their systems. To me they seem to be more steps than needed. I operate on layouts with Digitrax systems and personally I don't like the system performance. (especially the duplex radio problems they are having now but that's another whole can of worms). If your not happy with the system change it. There are several out there to choose from. NCE, CVP Easy DCC, Lenz to name a few. Try them all and see what each has to offer. I'm biased with NCE because of its ease of use and understanding that I have been using since 1999. I love CVP's radio system. It's bullet proof. See what's available out there support wise in your area. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 5, 2012 15:16:58 GMT -8
Okay, my previous Zephyr did none of these things. It would clear addresses like it was supposed to, and, for those of you not in the know, it's not a circuit breaker problem, as the Zephyr does the momentary shutdown/walking zeros on the display when it gets a short. This one shuts completely off, and does not restart unless I turn the power back on. If you have a Baldwin Centipede, or a pair of them, like I do, that makes a momentary short on every single Atlas frog on the layout, it gets real old, real fast, having to restart the system after every single wheel crosses over every single frog. And the turnouts are all Atlas code 83.
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nhguy
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Post by nhguy on Jun 6, 2012 0:15:14 GMT -8
Okay, my previous Zephyr did none of these things. It would clear addresses like it was supposed to, and, for those of you not in the know, it's not a circuit breaker problem, as the Zephyr does the momentary shutdown/walking zeros on the display when it gets a short. This one shuts completely off, and does not restart unless I turn the power back on. If you have a Baldwin Centipede, or a pair of them, like I do, that makes a momentary short on every single Atlas frog on the layout, it gets real old, real fast, having to restart the system after every single wheel crosses over every single frog. And the turnouts are all Atlas code 83. Terry, Did they redesign the circuit breaker in the Zephyr Xtra? Is it adjustable in that you can set the voltage to when it should activate? Or are you stuck with a permanent non adjustable voltage? Perhaps that is the issue. You may have a bad on board circuit breaker....OR....and this just came to mind....your power supply is not strong enough. What are are voltage parameters for supplying power to the new Zephyr Xtra unit? What are you using for a power supply? DCC engines like the Centipede shouldn't short out when every wheel crosses the frog. Especially since it did not do it with the older Zephyr system. Atlas turnouts today are DCC friendly. Do you have the older Atlas turnouts with the rivets and metal frogs? Did you just re-wire the track around the turnouts or maybe installed the Zephyr Xtra with the A and B rail switched? Just trying to eliminate potential problems. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 6, 2012 3:34:55 GMT -8
I sent the whole works back to Digitrax, and the power supply (that came with it) tested good. Or at least they say it did. Circuit breaker is non-adjustable. What is supposed to happen is the circuit breaker will momentarily interrupt the current to the track, and you get the "walking zero" display. What does happen is the entire unit shuts down at the drop of a hat. I did find a "work around" for it not purging addresses. It's a pain, but I can recall each address, and manually delete them. Okay, my previous Zephyr did none of these things. It would clear addresses like it was supposed to, and, for those of you not in the know, it's not a circuit breaker problem, as the Zephyr does the momentary shutdown/walking zeros on the display when it gets a short. This one shuts completely off, and does not restart unless I turn the power back on. If you have a Baldwin Centipede, or a pair of them, like I do, that makes a momentary short on every single Atlas frog on the layout, it gets real old, real fast, having to restart the system after every single wheel crosses over every single frog. And the turnouts are all Atlas code 83. Terry, Did they redesign the circuit breaker in the Zephyr Xtra? Is it adjustable in that you can set the voltage to when it should activate? Or are you stuck with a permanent non adjustable voltage? Perhaps that is the issue. You may have a bad on board circuit breaker....OR....and this just came to mind....your power supply is not strong enough. What are are voltage parameters for supplying power to the new Zephyr Xtra unit? What are you using for a power supply? DCC engines like the Centipede shouldn't short out when every wheel crosses the frog. Especially since it did not do it with the older Zephyr system. Atlas turnouts today are DCC friendly. Do you have the older Atlas turnouts with the rivets and metal frogs? Did you just re-wire the track around the turnouts or maybe installed the Zephyr Xtra with the A and B rail switched? Just trying to eliminate potential problems. |
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Post by pennsylvania1954 on Jun 6, 2012 4:22:48 GMT -8
Terry--I suggest you join the Digitrax list at groups.yahoo.com/group/Digitrax/. With over 10,000 members there are some guys who are real experts. Ask your question over there; you will get answers. The list is not owned or sponsored by Digitrax. Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL |
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 6, 2012 8:44:51 GMT -8
I still don't understand how any engine can short out on any Atlas Code 83 switch. The frog is completely isolated from the rest of the turnout, and unless you have a Snap Relay or are using the internal contacts on a Tortoise or Tortoise-like machine, the frog is stone dead. If you are using some kind of "frog juicer" (that just sounds nasty...), there should not be any short provided the frog is wired properly in line with the swith routing. There's nothing to short...
Likewise, it's impossible for any engine to short out on the points of an Atlas Code 83 switch as the points are always the same polarity of the adjacent stock rail. IOW, there's nothing to short against there, either.
I am more than willing to believe that the new Xtra has a more sensitive breaker than the old Zephyr. They probably had complaints that the old one was too slow.
nhguy,
The NCE radio is "bulletproof"? That's not what I've heard...
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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 6, 2012 17:49:55 GMT -8
I still don't understand how any engine can short out on any Atlas Code 83 switch. The frog is completely isolated from the rest of the turnout, and unless you have a Snap Relay or are using the internal contacts on a Tortoise or Tortoise-like machine, the frog is stone dead. If you are using some kind of "frog juicer" (that just sounds nasty...), there should not be any short provided the frog is wired properly in line with the swith routing. There's nothing to short... Likewise, it's impossible for any engine to short out on the points of an Atlas Code 83 switch as the points are always the same polarity of the adjacent stock rail. IOW, there's nothing to short against there, either. I am more than willing to believe that the new Xtra has a more sensitive breaker than the old Zephyr. They probably had complaints that the old one was too slow. nhguy, The NCE radio is "bulletproof"? That's not what I've heard... When I see sparks when the wheels hit the frogs, that is what I and my DCC system both call a short. Sorry about quoting the entire post, Paul. I am on a tablet, and I have phat phingers. |
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nhguy
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Post by nhguy on Jun 6, 2012 21:59:59 GMT -8
No Paul. Re-read my post. I said the 'CVP radio' was bullet proof.
The NCE radio is very much improved and is working just fine now that the software and hardware issues have been resolved by NCE. If you recall I was one of the 'complainers' that got the issues finally addressed. Bill
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Post by Paul Cutler III on Jun 7, 2012 6:37:54 GMT -8
Terry,
But, how is it possible that it's sparking? Is the frog powered?
BTW, sparking is not always a short. Sometimes, it's a dirty contact. Heck, I used to see sparks coming from the wheels on old Athearn engines back on my dad's old layout. There wasn't a short because the rail and the wheels were all the same polarity. The crud on the wheels and rails, however, caused the electricity to jump (spark) through the air to "get around" the resistance of the crud.
If the frogs are dead, they can't spark anything because there is no circuit. No circuit, no spark.
I have a 25' x 50' HO layout full of Atlas Code 83 switches. I've been running my Digitrax Zephyr (DCS50) on it for years. I've never seen an spark of any kind on any Atlas Code 83 switch or diamond. All my frogs are dead frogs. Now, I will say I have seen sparks on my limited number of Walthers non-DCC friendly switches and some handlaid switches I have. These have powered frogs. The worst offender is the Walthers Code 83 double crossover. The internal diamond used to spark like crazy because the switch was designed wrong. Eventually, the sparking caused carbon build up that isolated the problem.
Bill,
Ah, so I see. My apologies. I must have skipped right over the "I love CVP..." and just saw "NCE" since that was used in the sentence before. Whoops.
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Post by spookyac47 on Jun 10, 2012 16:00:21 GMT -8
Terry, But, how is it possible that it's sparking? Is the frog powered? BTW, sparking is not always a short. Sometimes, it's a dirty contact. Heck, I used to see sparks coming from the wheels on old Athearn engines back on my dad's old layout. There wasn't a short because the rail and the wheels were all the same polarity. The crud on the wheels and rails, however, caused the electricity to jump (spark) through the air to "get around" the resistance of the crud. . . . . . . The sintered iron wheels that Athearn used on their locomotives for a while didn't need help from "crud" on the wheels and track . . . they were pretty good at sparking on their own . . . on clean track . . . |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jun 11, 2012 8:22:20 GMT -8
I ran the Zephyr by the more local LHS thN the one that I bought it from. While the opinion of whether the unit should or should not shut down when shorted could be open for debate ( it acts counter to what is shown in the owner manual, and from my previous Zephyr), it definitely will not purge old addresses. If I go in and manually delete them, they go away, but they will not by using the "036" method, like it is supposed to. So, back to Digitrax it is going, with a large note inside for them to call me whenthey start looking at it.
I guess I will live without trains for another 2-3 weeks.
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Post by rhpd42002 on Jun 11, 2012 14:43:58 GMT -8
I sure understand your disappointment and frustration, Terry.  I do hope Digi will get to the bottom of it and make you a satisfied customer. Keep us posted...... |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 7, 2012 3:50:47 GMT -8
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Post by rhpd42002 on Jul 7, 2012 8:27:50 GMT -8
Terry!! I can't possibly say what I'm thinking without having to put myself in "time-out" about how maddening, annoyingly, frustrating that has GOT to be. Is Digi still saying there's no problem with the unit?
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 7, 2012 13:21:09 GMT -8
Terry!! I can't possibly say what I'm thinking without having to put myself in "time-out" about how maddening, annoyingly, frustrating that has GOT to be. Is Digi still saying there's no problem with the unit? They can't find anything wrong with it. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 7, 2012 13:43:48 GMT -8
Terry!! I can't possibly say what I'm thinking without having to put myself in "time-out" about how maddening, annoyingly, frustrating that has GOT to be. Is Digi still saying there's no problem with the unit? Here's a link to a second video further showing the problem: |
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Post by rhpd42002 on Jul 7, 2012 17:20:53 GMT -8
Terry, I watched both vids and can't quite understand why the folks at Digitrax can't find/figure out the problem. I'd have hoped they'd have at least replaced it in an attempt to keep you a happy & satisified customer. I can't help but wonder if someone at the repair shop hasn't at least looked at your vids!?!?  I'm quite happy with my Digitrax stuff, but I don't think I'd buy a new Zephyr for my portable layout, based on your experience. I'd try to find a used, older version instead. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 8, 2012 5:19:36 GMT -8
Terry, I watched both vids and can't quite understand why the folks at Digitrax can't find/figure out the problem. I'd have hoped they'd have at least replaced it in an attempt to keep you a happy & satisified customer. I can't help but wonder if someone at the repair shop hasn't at least looked at your vids!?!? I'm quite happy with my Digitrax stuff, but I don't think I'd buy a new Zephyr for my portable layout, based on your experience. I'd try to find a used, older version instead. I had an original Zephyr, and never had a problem with it. I only upgraded for the extra function keys I wanted to use now that 97% of my fleet has sound. I sold my old Zephyr, so now when I send this thing in for repair, my entire layout is out of commission for 2-3 weeks. I'm going to give them yet another call on Monday, which will be much more, umm, "stern" than most of my calls to customer service. I'll let you know what the response is. |
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Post by rhpd42002 on Jul 8, 2012 5:56:34 GMT -8
Terry, I watched both vids and can't quite understand why the folks at Digitrax can't find/figure out the problem. I'd have hoped they'd have at least replaced it in an attempt to keep you a happy & satisified customer. I can't help but wonder if someone at the repair shop hasn't at least looked at your vids!?!? I'm quite happy with my Digitrax stuff, but I don't think I'd buy a new Zephyr for my portable layout, based on your experience. I'd try to find a used, older version instead. I had an original Zephyr, and never had a problem with it. I only upgraded for the extra function keys I wanted to use now that 97% of my fleet has sound. I sold my old Zephyr, so now when I send this thing in for repair, my entire layout is out of commission for 2-3 weeks. I'm going to give them yet another call on Monday, which will be much more, umm, "stern" than most of my calls to customer service. I'll let you know what the response is. I do hope they're helpful. I'll be waiting to see what they have to say. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 9, 2012 8:31:42 GMT -8
I had an original Zephyr, and never had a problem with it. I only upgraded for the extra function keys I wanted to use now that 97% of my fleet has sound. I sold my old Zephyr, so now when I send this thing in for repair, my entire layout is out of commission for 2-3 weeks. I'm going to give them yet another call on Monday, which will be much more, umm, "stern" than most of my calls to customer service. I'll let you know what the response is. I do hope they're helpful. I'll be waiting to see what they have to say. I talked to Brenda this morning. She says the unit completely shutting down from a momentary short is what it is supposed to do. Really? Then why has no other Zephyr or Zephyr Xtra I have used done this? She couldn't tell me. The FULL readout and random address issue with not being able to purge addresses is a software issue, and I need to send it in again for reprogramming. When I asked why it had not been reprogrammed when it was there before like she swore it had been, she had no answer, other than maybe they had, but it hadn't "taken". So, I guess I will send it in again, and see how it behaves when it comes back again. If it continues, I can see an upgrade to something different as far as DCC systems in my future. |
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Post by rhpd42002 on Jul 9, 2012 15:50:32 GMT -8
 Sure hate to hear that is has to go back yet once again, Terry. It sure seems that unit has more miles on it than all your locos, combined!!  No Digi system I've ever used/operated on has a complete shutdown with a short. They've all come back to "life" once the short has been removed. I'm pulling for them to fix it and do it right for you. If they can't/don't, I'll be sorely disappointed and it's not even mine.
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 9, 2012 18:16:24 GMT -8
...I hear NCE has a nice system...
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Post by bnsf971 on Jul 10, 2012 14:33:03 GMT -8
Okay, I sent it in today--again. I enclosed a copy of my original complaint sheet, and added two words:
FIX IT!!!
We'll see.
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Post by rhpd42002 on Jul 11, 2012 16:40:41 GMT -8
Okay, I sent it in today--again. I enclosed a copy of my original complaint sheet, and added two words: FIX IT!!! We'll see. I'm with ya Terry, though I'd have probably added..... or REPLACE IT!!  |
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