|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 10, 2012 11:34:34 GMT -8
Does anyone have any information on the availability of the Sergent lower shelf E and double shelf E couplers? Every time I check the website, it shows these products are "Limited Availability" and out of stock when I try to add them to my shopping cart. I have a bunch of boxcars and covered hoppers in need of the lower shelf E's and several tanks that need double shelf E's.
|
|
|
|
Post by Judge Doom on Jun 13, 2012 9:58:19 GMT -8
Last time I heard (from a friend who really wants some and has been in contact with Sergent about them) is they were having trouble with the different method they were using to produce them. IIRC from what he told me, most of their couplers are die-cast, but they employ 3D printing for the more complex ones.
|
|
bcrn
Full Member
Posts: 133
|
Post by bcrn on Jun 14, 2012 19:06:36 GMT -8
who would use THESE things??? but , seriously, if either of you use these extensively i would like to hear about you experiences with them.
|
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 14, 2012 22:09:14 GMT -8
Last time I heard (from a friend who really wants some and has been in contact with Sergent about them) is they were having trouble with the different method they were using to produce them. IIRC from what he told me, most of their couplers are die-cast, but they employ 3D printing for the more complex ones. That sounds familiar. I saw their website hasn't been updated in awhile, so I wondered if anyone knew something I didn't on this. |
|
|
|
Post by fr8kar on Jun 14, 2012 22:11:52 GMT -8
who would use THESE things??? but , seriously, if either of you use these extensively i would like to hear about you experiences with them. Do you mean the shelf couplers or Sergent couplers in general? Other than the shelf couplers, which I haven't been able to obtain yet, I use Sergent couplers exclusively. They don't work like Kadee couplers, so anyone who expects automatic (i.e., hands free) coupling and uncoupling will be disappointed. Instead they work almost exactly like the prototype. Just as you must lift the pin on the prototype to uncouple, a magnet lifts the "pin" on Sergent couplers, which is a small steel ball inside the coupler. They also don't self center, which is also true of the real thing. When you uncouple on a curve, the coupler remains in place. A Kadee will spring back to center. There is much more play in a Kadee, so odds are pretty good the joint will make when you return to pick up the car on the curve. If the couplers aren't lined up, the Sergent couplers won't join, just like the real thing. If you take your time and switch carefully, you can align the couplers and the joint will make. I didn't buy any of the assembled couplers, so I can't report how well they work, but the ones I assembled have not had any problems. They are durable (I haven't broken any in the year or so I've had them) and hold up well in long trains (35-40 cars or so is the longest I've run them). They also look almost exactly like the real thing. I figured since I was putting so much effort into making the models look real in terms of details, paint, decals and weathering, there was no reason to stop there. I only have a few dozen engines and a couple hundred cars, so it didn't take long to outfit most of my fleet with Sergent couplers. As the OP states, I can still use the shelf couplers on several cars, not to mention Type Fs on some coal service engines and coal cars, but otherwise I'm all set up with Sergent couplers. If you want your switching operations to work like the real thing, Sergent couplers are the way to go. If you want them to look like the real thing but work like Kadees, your best bet are the scale couplers Kadee offers. |
|
|
|
Post by mlehman on Jun 15, 2012 5:33:11 GMT -8
There are a number of those in HOn3 that use Sergents, mainly for the reasons that rch stated. They do require a little creative work to get the coupler mounted on some NG rolling stock, but those who've switched are pretty happy with them. Fropm what I understand, you don't actually need a coupler box with the Sergent, just a properly located screw.
A big reason for those in HOn3 to switch is the way that the spring is located in the Kadee 714 design tends to result in some "bounce" in the drawbars when rolling. The Sergents eliminate this, as they don't have any springing in the drawbar like714s do.
This all sounds good to me, but it would be a major project (and a bit of expense) to swap my 714s out for Sergents. I also operate dual gauge trains, so that complicates things further. You could probably do that and leave the Kadees in place alongside the Sergents, but not sure how that would look or operate with two different magnetic systems to uncouple interacting together on my dual gauge idler cars and locos.
|
|
|
|
Post by drolsen on Jun 15, 2012 6:38:26 GMT -8
Last time I heard (from a friend who really wants some and has been in contact with Sergent about them) is they were having trouble with the different method they were using to produce them. IIRC from what he told me, most of their couplers are die-cast, but they employ 3D printing for the more complex ones. Sergent's front page on his website still describes the delays, based on issues he's having with the 3D printing. That information has been up for a while, and from what I've seen, he's been releasing small batches of different types of couplers, but he hasn't been able to keep them in stock regularly (except the standard Type E). I'm waiting for more shelf couplers, and especially the Type H couplers for my passenger cars, but it looks like it might be a while longer. Frank runs a one-man operation (actually, I think his wife helps too), so delays happen, as with many small manufacturers. I committed to Sergents for the same reason that rch mentioned - I try to put a lot of detail into my prototype models, and I wanted to be able to represent the correct style of coupler on each model after putting all the work into detailing them. I'm also just amazed by how Sergent couplers look and operate - it's fantastic to see how a pair of Type F couplers mesh together perfectly, and how Type Fs and shelf-equipped Es couple together with each other, since they're exact replicas of the real thing. I love that I can model two almost identical UP coal hoppers, one with lower shelf Type Es and one with lower shelf Type Fs, to match their prototypes. I personally like the little bit of extra work required to couple Sergents, but where I really think they shine is uncoupling. After using picks to fiddle with Kadees, Sergents are a breeze to uncouple - just hold the magnetic wand over them (like pulling the pin) and give your locomotive some power to pull them apart. Granted, I haven't done any real switching with Sergents yet (I don't have a layout), but I think I'm going to enjoy it. My one concern is whether Frank is going to be able to keep it up for the next 40+ years that I'm going to be in the hobby (God willing). I hope that if / when he eventually decides to retire, he'll sell his line off to another manufacturer who will continue to produce them. Otherwise, I'm going to have to try to order a lifetime supply before then! Dave |
|
|
|
Post by Judge Doom on Jun 15, 2012 17:54:42 GMT -8
The only real problem my friend's had when using them is on rough track: there might be flash on the inside of the knuckles that catches and may lift the freight car up and off the rails. We found the solution is filing the inside of the knuckle to get that smooth up-down movement between the couplers.
That and they don't have longer-shank shelf couplers yet, so certain locomotives (Bowser C630M for example) that may need them for tighter curves or futher spacing have to wait or make due with regulars.
|
|
|
|
Post by drolsen on Jun 16, 2012 0:00:00 GMT -8
The only real problem my friend's had when using them is on rough track: there might be flash on the inside of the knuckles that catches and may lift the freight car up and off the rails. We found the solution is filing the inside of the knuckle to get that smooth up-down movement between the couplers. There's very little play in the knuckles of Sergent couplers, compared to Kadees, especially with the shelf couplers, which really work like the prototype in preventing vertical movement and twisting of the couplers. I could see this being an issue on really uneven track, but making sure the knuckles are cleaned up before use does go a long way towards improving performance (as well as "lubing" the knuckles with a graphite pencil also, as Frank recommends on his website). I think Frank is experimenting with long shank couplers and plans to offer them eventually. I desperately want them for prototype applications on cars that are actually equipped with long shanks (again, to get that accurate prototype appearance), such as these examples: CSX 60' box car: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1831312Hampton Railway centerbeam flat car: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2521281CSX auto rack: drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1501851DODX flat car (the upcoming UTI brass model): drolsen.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1450133There are definitely a lot of applications for long shank couplers in addition to clearing diesel plows. Dave |
|
bcrn
Full Member
Posts: 133
|
Post by bcrn on Jun 17, 2012 18:51:55 GMT -8
looked at their website. hands down on looks.sounds like switching with them is about on par with kadees. the expense, and that they dont put enough in a bag to do 2 cars is a bummer though. sounds like its more like youd want start early using them, its a costly changeover.
|
|
|
|
Post by drolsen on Jun 17, 2012 21:46:54 GMT -8
looked at their website. hands down on looks.sounds like switching with them is about on par with kadees. the expense, and that they dont put enough in a bag to do 2 cars is a bummer though. sounds like its more like youd want start early using them, its a costly changeover. I think you might be mis-reading something on the website. The assembled couplers come in packs of 4 (2 pairs), and the unassembled ones come in a pack of 6 (3 pairs). The shelf couplers are definitely expensive, but the price of the standard Type Es, if you buy the bulk pack of 144 and don't mind assembling them (the assembly jig helps), is comparable to Kadee. By the way, I noticed there was an update for January 2012 on the homepage that says "While we continue to work to find a solution to the problems in manufacturing the investment cast products, we are also in the process of moving some castings to a die cast process instead. This will lessen the manufacturing load for the equipment and allow the printers to be used only for the really special products. This is not a quick or easy solution, but will be worth it in the long run." I think that's great news, if he's moving to die cast shelf couplers. The current ones are good, but I'd love to have the shelf couplers die cast like the regular Type Es. Dave |
|
bcrn
Full Member
Posts: 133
|
Post by bcrn on Jun 19, 2012 18:28:11 GMT -8
drolsen, dont remember if you already had or not, but can you put any photos of your cars or such on here? id like to eyeball a couple 2 or 3 ken
|
|
|
|
Post by drolsen on Jun 19, 2012 20:49:52 GMT -8
Ken - I'm overseas right now, unfortunately, so I don't have access to my photos and models. I'll try to remember to post some when I get home, but it will be a while.
Dave
|
|
bigzmn
Junior Member
Posts: 91
|
Post by bigzmn on Sept 27, 2012 17:31:51 GMT -8
My one concern is whether Frank is going to be able to keep it up for the next 40+ years that I'm going to be in the hobby (God willing). I hope that if / when he eventually decides to retire, he'll sell his line off to another manufacturer who will continue to produce them. Otherwise, I'm going to have to try to order a lifetime supply before then! Dave Before I made the decision to dive in on the Sergent coupler conversion, I had an email conversation with Frank about that. My question was actually a little more morbid, as in "What would happen to Sergent Engineering and the supply of Sergent couplers if you were to get hit and killed tomorrow by a bus". He said that was a morbid, but valid question. This was two years ago I asked the question, but at that time he said that there were three entities wanting to buy his company and product line. He is not ready to sell, but he does have provisions in place in case he is no longer able to keep things going. FWIW, Chris Z. |
|
|
|
Post by atsfan on Sept 27, 2012 17:44:06 GMT -8
They look nice. But I am too heavily invested in Kadee couplers to convert.........
|
|
|
|
Post by drolsen on Sept 27, 2012 20:23:05 GMT -8
This was two years ago I asked the question, but at that time he said that there were three entities wanting to buy his company and product line. He is not ready to sell, but he does have provisions in place in case he is no longer able to keep things going. Thanks, Chris - that makes me feel a lot better to know that. I figured some other people would be interested in his product line, given the amount of effort he has put into getting it right, but it's good to hear confirmation. Dave |
|
|
|
Post by sd80macs on Sept 28, 2012 5:41:36 GMT -8
I have tried the couplers and they are great but they do not like uneven trackwork or short super elevated curves as they lack twisting in those situations and something ends up derailing. I have used the dummy couplers for commuter train consists though and that seems to work out good. I might give them another shot down the road but right now I cant afford to convert over 200 locos and 1400 cars.
|
|
