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Post by madlatvian on Apr 25, 2014 12:23:28 GMT -8
Over the years there have been several attempts at HO GP35s. There was the Blue Box version, the RPP version that became the R-T-R version, if my memory has not failed me- a Kato version, and now the MTH version. So what are the pros and cons of each? Did I leave any out? If so, add these to the conversation too.
I plan to put together a representation of a lease fleet for my railroad and I want to go with GP35s or there abouts- GP38s etc. are too new for what I am trying to accomplish.
Thanks in advance for all the responses (many I hope)! |
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Post by buffalobill on Apr 25, 2014 12:48:53 GMT -8
Its hard to argue with the silky smooth drive of the Kato. Its shell is good, but maybe a bit dated compared to the recent Genesis quality offering out there. For my money still the best GP-35 shell out there. The original Blue box shell was the overly wide one, leaves a lot to be desired, but remember the die work is 48 years old. The current RTR shell is in fact the RPP shell, its crude, and has a few issues. Drive is ok, standard issue Athearn.
I would stay away from the MTH, its a bit more toy train like, and for the price you can do better. Mike has his devotes, I am just not one of them. If you are looking for a unit to be done up as a lessor, look for a Kato 35 at a show. As long as the drives good, and the shell has not been too beaten up, you can strip it and repaint it into your desired scheme. You can add aftermarket details to update it if you want. I just picked up one at a local show for $50, both the drive and shell in great shape. It will be stripped. There are stores that still have new ones out there, in the $80 range, a bit more than the RTR Athearn, but definitely a better runner.
Bill
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Post by alcoc430 on Apr 25, 2014 12:52:23 GMT -8
Athearn Blue Box - does not have a scale width long hood. NG
Athearn RTR (Rail Power) Has a Scale width hood. Typical running athearn RTR Drive. This I all I know others will chime in about the body. I Don't know the phase number
Kato modelers on this forum swear by these. but I don't know if they are talking about the drive or accuracy or both. I don't know the phase number
MTH From other thread on this forum. high price and not state of the art tooling or other mistakes
I have the Athearn RTR ones for me I happy with them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2014 12:55:13 GMT -8
The RPP/Athearn RPP shell is about a scale six inches or more too short in height. The tooling of the latches is still that of the RPP shell. Even though Athearn did a lot of work to the shell its still an RPP at heart. You can only put so much lip stick on a pig, until you realize you still have a pig.
The Kato is the best, but its tooling is dated. The fans are solid and the grabs on at the phase Ia at least are huge. So you'll be plugging holes and or Cannonizing the fans. The Kato is the best running. The phase Ia and Ib are not DCC ready. Kato can also be expensive.
MTH is a too much money for what you get. Their model is not well done.
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Post by onequiknova on Apr 25, 2014 12:56:31 GMT -8
The old Kato is still the best of the bunch. Nice runner with a nicely tooled shell. Multiple phases. It's old tooling though, and it does show it's age in certin areas. The thick handrails, plastic grabs, oversized safety tread and solid fans are the biggest problems for me.
The RPP/ Athearn RTR has crude tooling carried over from it's RPP days. Available in only one phase. Nice paint and handrails though.
I can't speak on the MTH, but from pictures I've seen, the 20 some odd year old Kato is still a better starting point for a build. The plus side is MTH offers the only phase II GP35 in HO scale. The down side is it's made by MTH.
The old BB GP35 isn't even worth talking about.
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Post by mlehman on Apr 25, 2014 13:01:02 GMT -8
My two GP35 are the later Athearn RTR, first run one's IIRC. They're Rio Grande, naturally, but no nose light so you have to add that yourself. Not a big deal for some, for some a dealbreaker. Mine run fine. Done the light on one and it runs well enough to lead, so now it does. Still have to hack the other one.  Yes, the hood has measurement issues, which can give you fits if doing significant detailing. If your concern is about running them, they look good doing that. |
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Post by TBird1958 on Apr 25, 2014 13:20:40 GMT -8
With what ever flaws it may have I prefer the Kato, besides you can buy extras for the drive train and use them under P2K GP-30's  |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 25, 2014 13:28:29 GMT -8
The only GP35's I have are KATO (2 D&RGW and 2 CB&Q). I've skipped the Athearn RTR although I've been tempted, so far I've found other things to spend my limited funds on.
Hopefully Athearn Genesis can produce quality GP35's based on the GP40 tooling?
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Post by bnsf971 on Apr 25, 2014 15:01:34 GMT -8
Bachmann has also done GP35's. Not that I expect anybody to seriously consider them for much of anything, but they are GP35's.
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Post by craigz on Apr 25, 2014 16:03:23 GMT -8
The Kato is probably the best of the bunch. The shell is decent, the drive Kato, and the handrails are fat. The Athearn RTR has a decent shell, the drive's adequate to good, the handrails thin but lean. Pays your money, takes your chances  |
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Post by Chad on Apr 25, 2014 16:33:17 GMT -8
I bought an MTH one is SP. I agree, it's just okay, nothing special and for the price of one with sound is why I only have one of them. I look at it this way, I can now say yes I have an SP GP35.
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Post by Brakie on Apr 25, 2014 17:03:37 GMT -8
The old BB GP35 isn't even worth talking about.
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Depends on who you talk to.
Both of my BB GP35s dates back to the early 80s and they still run like new. I got my coins worth over the years and many times over. Wide body or no one can't beat that type of dependability. I still break them out now and then just for the memories of the simpler times in the hobby.
Now,If I was to upgrade I think I would go with a Kato as a first choice and Athearn RTR as the second choice.
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Post by ChessieFan1978 on Apr 25, 2014 17:20:22 GMT -8
Kato GP35 100%. Quality runner, great models. Just wish Kato would rerun them in other roads and 2014 tooling!
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Post by Brakie on Apr 25, 2014 17:56:26 GMT -8
Bachmann has also done GP35's. Not that I expect anybody to seriously consider them for much of anything, but they are GP35's. I consider the Bachmann GP35 to be a entrance model since they're $39.95 with DCC on board and they're well suit for that. |
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Post by lvrr325 on Apr 25, 2014 18:07:51 GMT -8
I have a BB Athearn GP35 someone thought enough of, probably in the mid-1980s, to actually cut up and redo the hoods to scale width, replacing the cab with what appears to be an Athearn SD40/GP38/40/50 cab. Some of the hood top is scratchbuilt; sides are stock, cut away from the deck and moved in. It's even fairly nicely painted in Erie Lackawanna colors. Unfortunately it's never been finished, needing handrails and the chassis is bare. But I have a NIB late BB GP35 here I can rob parts from for it.
I bought it mostly because it's an oddball and it might be fun to fake people out with it. One thing that struck me on it is the hood door hinges look oversized on it.
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Post by Spikre on Apr 26, 2014 10:37:46 GMT -8
 all pics seen here of the so called MTH PHS-2 GP35s have been of PHS-1 units. the EL unit is painted for the PHS-2 EL,but what is shown is a PHS-1 body. were these just Pre-Production pics ? have not seen the MTH GP35s in person yet,no LHS anymore. KATO GP35: for an almost 20 year old body still looks good. You can look at the handrails with out them bending or breaking. the Mechanism is still top notch,but think the PHS-1C was DCC ready ? so Kato made: GP35 PHS-1A GP35 PHS-1B GP35 PHS-1C still the best of the GP35s to date. now when will KATO get the GP35 PHS-2 on the market ?? Spikre 
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Post by onequiknova on Apr 26, 2014 12:40:32 GMT -8
I thought I remember seeing test shots of the MTH phase II a couple years back. Maybe not.
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Post by roadkill on Apr 26, 2014 13:22:10 GMT -8
I thought I remember seeing test shots of the MTH phase II a couple years back. Maybe not. You did. I remember seeing them too, but I don't remember where either. Was pretty excited about getting one until I saw those shots. Now I'm just going to build some from Kato units. BTW, put me down as one of the Kato GP35 fans. There are some kludgy parts of the shell i.e. exhaust stack, fans, and handrails, but nothing I can't fix. And fortunately I enjoy fixing that kind of stuff, especially when I'm doing those mods to the best running HO diesel (IMHO) there's ever been. |
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Post by bnsf971 on Apr 26, 2014 14:10:42 GMT -8
A good running model that has flaws is still preferable to a bad running model that has flaws.
Though I think all of the GP35 models I have seen ran well, at least for the time they were first produced.
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Post by Donnell Wells on Apr 26, 2014 17:36:00 GMT -8
Kato is "hands-down" the best "RTR" GP35 on the market, even at more 20 years of age! The revised RPP/Athearn GP35 is decent offering, and can be made into something really nice with the addition of select Cannon, Details West, Detail Associates, and Plano parts. The only other way to get a truly accurate GP35 is to scratch build one from Evergreen styrene and Cannon parts!
Donnell
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Post by Brakie on Apr 27, 2014 2:24:06 GMT -8
The only other way to get a truly accurate GP35 is to scratch build one from Evergreen styrene and Cannon parts!
Donnell
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My dad's generation of modelers was highly capable doing just that with brass and tin stock but,I wonder how many of us can do that today? I know I can't since I lack the needed skills.
You see I was in the younger generation of modelers back then that was "ruining" the hobby by buying plastic car kits and brass and plastic Athearn locomotives.
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Post by middledivision on Apr 27, 2014 6:18:13 GMT -8
The only GP35's I have are KATO (2 D&RGW and 2 CB&Q). I've skipped the Athearn RTR although I've been tempted, so far I've found other things to spend my limited funds on. Hopefully Athearn Genesis can produce quality GP35's based on the GP40 tooling? Nope. The GP35 and GP30 had different frames than the 38's and 40's. Aa a PRR modeler, a Genesis GP35 and GP30 would be nice. |
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Post by Spikre on Apr 27, 2014 9:00:36 GMT -8
the PHS-2 GP35 was the 1st GP with a Straight Girder frame,similar but 3' shorter than the 40-series,or 66 Line frames. from the GP7 to the GP35 PHS-1s they all had the "Fish Belly" Girder frame. Larry, had plenty of 1949 to 1954 Model railroaders. they had articles to build Alco FAs,RS-2s,RS-3s,,but no EMD Cabs. Photo section did have pics of Scratched Alco S switchers,EMD cabs that never had the noses correct,and Creative Never Was locos. they all maybe looked fine from 15',but up close didn't stand up to New Diesel models coming on the market like the Hobbytown RS-3 and PAs,Lindsey FAs,Hobbyline F-M H10-44s,Lawrance Line GP7s,Varney or Lindsey NW2s,Kemtron Baldwin VO-1000,and Globe/Athearn F7s. Spikre
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leikec
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Post by leikec on Apr 27, 2014 10:35:29 GMT -8
I must be a heathen...the Kato Gp:35 is good enough for me.
Jeff C
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Post by tom on Apr 27, 2014 12:56:13 GMT -8
Like others I think the Kato GP35 is the best available right now. I like it because of its proven smooth mechanism, good overall detailing, and you can sometimes find them for a pretty good price. With a good amount of work they can be upgraded to be as good as any recent models. I bought my first Kato GP35 decades ago. Here is my Penn Central GP35 that I added Cannon fans and stack, replaced the thick handrails with 0.015 wire, and other details.  It does a some time but I end up with a good running and reliable G35.  |
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Post by riogrande on Apr 27, 2014 18:40:38 GMT -8
Looks very nice. Just enough weathering to bring out the detail. And a sloped journal on the back truck too?
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Post by Brakie on Apr 28, 2014 0:52:44 GMT -8
Larry,
had plenty of 1949 to 1954 Model railroaders.
they had articles to build Alco FAs,RS-2s,RS-3s,,but no EMD Cabs.
Photo section did have pics of Scratched Alco S switchers,EMD cabs
that never had the noses correct,and Creative Never Was locos.
they all maybe looked fine from 15',but up close didn't stand up
to New Diesel models coming on the market like the Hobbytown RS-3
and PAs,Lindsey FAs,Hobbyline F-M H10-44s,Lawrance Line GP7s,Varney
or Lindsey NW2s,Kemtron Baldwin VO-1000,and Globe/Athearn F7s.
Spikre
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Bob,That doesn't wash..I've seen many scratch built locomotives back in the 50/60s that look far better then the brands you named exception being Hobbytown's RS3.The Hobbyline FM was very crude even back then..
Athearn and brass is what started the change to what we have today.Not those crude looking brands(except the RS3) you named which was unacceptable to most modelers back then.
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Post by catt on Apr 28, 2014 2:27:44 GMT -8
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Post by Spikre on Apr 28, 2014 12:15:39 GMT -8
 Larry, You were too Young in 54 to really know what was going on in the Hobby. I was too Young also. but thru a Co-Worker of Dad's was given 2 boxes of 49-54 Model Railroaders that were read until they crumbled. there is a Hobbyline F-M shell here that is about as well done as the 70s Cary Conversion F-M H-10.niether is up to the detail level of the 90s Walthers F-M H-10,or the current Proto F-M H10. the Hobbytown PA is still the best PA shell seen here so far. RTR is still selling all the Globe based F7s they can produce. why is that ? the shell is very Inaccurate !! many Brass models had Glaring mistakes,and still today many have problems. a Lot of this Hobby comes down to what a person will accept. have seen people trying to get Big Money for ancient home built models that may have been acceptable in the 30s,40s,50s,but didn't sell for what ever reasons,mainly being way off from the models they were supposed to be. but one Constant from the 50s on,when Decent Models were produced,they Sold. Tom, good looking PC 35,shows just how nice a Kato can look. Catt, nice pair of conversions,the fate of some GP35s,any GP39-2s coming ? Spikre
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Post by The Ferro Kid on Apr 28, 2014 15:05:51 GMT -8
I too am a fan of the Kato GP35. Bought some shells and handrails from them when they were unloading them on their website years ago, and around the same time bought a couple more complete units that a dealer was closing out. Interchanging shells works fairly well given that most road's trucks and chassis are black. I probably have enough for this lifetime, but I'd still love to see Kato bring it back in some form.
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