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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 8, 2014 14:38:06 GMT -8
For those of us that don't Facebook, what is it? You don't need a Facebook account to view the page. I clicked on the link and got a blank facebook page. Just tried it again and got the same. This is on my android, so ymmv. I did check first before asking. Am not that lazy. |
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Post by carrman on Jul 8, 2014 14:39:16 GMT -8
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Post by TBird1958 on Jul 8, 2014 14:44:41 GMT -8
It looks like this....... Like the ones in my most current Genesis F's, 5 pole skew wound, mine have Roco stamped on them.  |
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Post by carrman on Jul 8, 2014 14:45:44 GMT -8
Thread derailment ploy. Next we'll have people arguing the Athearn "gold can" motor is superior to the Genesis or Kato motors... Actually it was to bring out a point about "cheap" motors that many complain about on this topic and I suspect many hasn't even seen that new motor operate.. . And a number of us HAVE seen it run, and stall out. Dave |
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 8, 2014 14:47:20 GMT -8
It looks like this....... Like the ones in my most current Genesis F's, 5 pole skew wound, mine have Roco stamped on them. Thanks!  |
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Post by Judge Doom on Jul 8, 2014 15:28:22 GMT -8
Actually it was to bring out a point about "cheap" motors that many complain about on this topic and I suspect many hasn't even seen that new motor operate.. . And a number of us HAVE seen it run, and stall out. Dave I don't think he's been reading the last 4 pages of this topic Dave, where numerous people have shared their lackluster experiences with their IMRC SD40-2W's and Bowser C630's with the same identical motor...including OPERATING them. The Bachmann motor point was obvious trolling. Like Jim stated earlier, when you pay $300 for a top of the line model, your expectations are going to be, oh, maybe just a teensy weensy bit higher than paying $40 for an Athearn BB loco, or $69 for a Bachmann GP7 or RS3. And if the Bachmann motor runs better (as many have said they do indeed run decently on recent runs), than it's even more shameful for that $200-$300 IMRC/Atlas/Bowser model... |
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Post by carrman on Jul 8, 2014 15:59:21 GMT -8
I had Bachmann C40-8's from the very first run in the early 90's. They ran great, until they aged and self destructed.
Dave
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 8, 2014 16:05:48 GMT -8
I had Bachmann C40-8's from the very first run in the early 90's. They ran great, until they aged and self destructed. Dave Considering GE C40-8's, that is prototypical  |
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Post by Brakie on Jul 8, 2014 17:09:10 GMT -8
Actually it was to bring out a point about "cheap" motors that many complain about on this topic and I suspect many hasn't even seen that new motor operate.. . And a number of us HAVE seen it run, and stall out. Dave Interesting..Was that Atlas or the other brands? I'm at a lost on why its stalling--torture test,dirty track or just plan bad? I've been told time and again that Atlas/Roco motors was junk but,my S4s I bought in 93,'95,98 and 2001(02?) keeps soldiering on. I've seen a IM A-B-A set run and they didn't appear all that bad of a runner.. |
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Post by Brakie on Jul 8, 2014 17:13:04 GMT -8
The Bachmann motor point was obvious trolling.
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Again not trolling just bringing out a point about cheap motors..
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Post by carrman on Jul 8, 2014 17:46:17 GMT -8
Stalling as in stalling where the motor stops turning, but still has power to it. Like the second run IM AC-12's would do. Not enough torque.
Dave
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Post by Judge Doom on Jul 8, 2014 18:11:19 GMT -8
I've been told time and again that Atlas/Roco motors was junk but,my S4s I bought in 93,'95,98 and 2001(02?) keeps soldiering on. Different but decent motors in them. Mostly regarded as good pullers due to weight, and a PITA to modify because of the metal walkway/frame/chassis. The P2K S1/S3 has the same green open-sided motor the older Atlas S's do. Again, different motors. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2014 18:20:06 GMT -8
I've been told time and again that Atlas/Roco motors was junk but,my S4s I bought in 93,'95,98 and 2001(02?) keeps soldiering on. Different but decent motors in them. Mostly regarded as good pullers due to weight, and a PITA to modify because of the metal walkway/frame/chassis. The P2K S1/S3 has the same green open-sided motor the older Atlas S's do. Again, different motors. I've had many Intermountain F7's and FP7's and I sure wouldn't write home about their "stellar" performance. They were a little better than the POS SD40-2W. There is a reason why you can pick up IMRC F's dirt cheap on e-Bay. Besides their generic detail and tooling gaffs, compared to the stellar current production Genesis F's, I'd be throwing them through the hobby shop's window in disgust. |
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Post by espeenut on Jul 8, 2014 20:26:41 GMT -8
...after wading through all this, it just reinforces why my personal fleet of HO locomotives is made up of more Kato and Atlas (earlier versions than that being discussed) than any other manufacturer. They're simply incredibly reliable, I've NEVER had one fail or had any problem other than needing wheels cleaned or DCC re-programming if I messed up the consist...
...it is disconcerting to hear about the Bowser motors as I've got several six axle units on order, all have been delayed for months, almost years, the Alco C636's, hope Bowser hears about this and gets a fix happening...
cheers,
Lorne Miller
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 9, 2014 5:42:46 GMT -8
Who here exactly seen the atlas motor stall out cause mine won't. Just spins fighting for traction.
This is about. Atlas rs-3 not bowser not IM and other than myself actually owns an atlas rs-3?
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 9, 2014 7:44:26 GMT -8
Ok I made a video of mine and will post later but first
Here is the deal my track is small and ran out room and is 90% curved
I added weights from doner engines to do this and it kept pulling so I stopped at 32 car train when I took the weight off it pulled a bit then wheels just spun nothing that has been claimed has happened with bowser/IM
Motor never got hot and I probably worked the rs-3 for about an hour before I video it..
I wish this thing was heavier cause all in all I pulled 40 cars before the last 5 decided to derail so I took them to make a less embarrassing video other than my small crash I did in it..lol
Sorry but I'm not snazzy with the video stuff so gotta wait for wife to do it for me
Art
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Post by Spikre on Jul 9, 2014 8:22:04 GMT -8
 jimalooyee, will ignore that last comment. seems you havnt seen the threads started to avoid the dreaded hijacking of a topic recently. Larry, some of those Atlas S switchers listed are the Chinese versions which have a Chinese copy of the Roco motor which isn't the motor used in the 70s Atlas/Roco locos. CP, the motor in the Proto S-1/3 isn't the same as the Chinese Atlas S motor, but does look similar from 5'. the Proto units run fine but don't pull like the Atlas units. Dave, glad yer Spectrash C40-8 ran good,the 1st run one here never did,the motor could get hot enuff to bake potatoes on,and the truck gears liked to bind. Spikre 
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 9, 2014 8:28:48 GMT -8
Reading thru the posts, am I to understand that some people think it is a good thing that a motor would stall vs. cause the wheels to slip when under a load test? Not sure but I'd rather have slippage Motor stall like all electric motors creates heat and no air is being circulated to cool the motor Plus stall could mean truck gear binding not the motor and then you have an all together different problem vs motor stall. |
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Post by carrman on Jul 9, 2014 8:40:12 GMT -8
Who here exactly seen the atlas motor stall out cause mine won't. Just spins fighting for traction. This is about. Atlas rs-3 not bowser not IM and other than myself actually owns an atlas rs-3? It's the same motor. But, I'm done with this thread. I've warned folks, and if you want to spend your money on an Atlas with the cheapo motor go on ahead. I won't be wasting mine. Dave |
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 9, 2014 8:57:00 GMT -8
Just because the case is the same doesn't mean the motor or armature is. Have you taken the motor out and disassemble it?
Proto and athearn used some of the same parts but proto sourced a different supplier of motors that with a bearing change created a better motor than athearn..
No need to be done with this and get mad but if you can't present facts and only shows pics of an apparent fact then just leave it alone..
If someone new to trains comes here and asks questions about a product you present unbiased facts not this they use this junk motor Bla Bla unless you in fact own one
But like most comments here its opinions and disgruntled hatred because it doesn't fit your tastes instead of another persons interest
We all can be wrong and we all can be right but no need to get our diapers in a bunch because somebody questions something you disagree with.. It's part of life
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Post by carrman on Jul 9, 2014 9:35:20 GMT -8
What part of they come out of the same factory aren't you understanding? Like I said, spend your money as you see fit, and I'll save mine for products with decent drives. It's not a matter of tastes, it's a matter of knowing junk when I see it.
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Post by thebessemerkid on Jul 9, 2014 10:07:59 GMT -8
Reading thru the posts, am I to understand that some people think it is a good thing that a motor would stall vs. cause the wheels to slip when under a load test? If modeling GE's, yes!  |
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Post by WP 257 on Jul 9, 2014 10:08:58 GMT -8
Reading thru the posts, am I to understand that some people think it is a good thing that a motor would stall vs. cause the wheels to slip when under a load test? Yes, yes, that's it exactly! Seems counterintuitive to me, but that's what has been said. Apparently every loco made lately by Atlas, Bowser and Intermountain is also "junk". Nevermind the apparently factual story about how changing a bearing made an improvement in a previous "lookalike" motor some years ago  . |
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Post by carrman on Jul 9, 2014 10:26:51 GMT -8
Who said stalling without slipping was good? That's how motors and decoders fry.
Dave
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 9, 2014 12:01:49 GMT -8
What part of they come out of the same factory aren't you understanding? Like I said, spend your money as you see fit, and I'll save mine for products with decent drives. It's not a matter of tastes, it's a matter of knowing junk when I see it. I understand very well and being in the same factory means nothing.. Proof? I'm a cnc/diecast operator. Ford parts made on one side and jaguar on the other. Same exact parts being made difference? Quality criteria is different but one supplier provides fords assembly parts while jag requested a higher more expensive assembly parts. They exactly the same until you open it up.. Funny story wife worked at gilster Mary lee on a brownie mix line fun on Hines was being made then she said all of a sudden the line stopped swapped boxes to great value So what changed there? Both being made at the same factory same brownie mix different box??.. Nope mixer guy on the next floor adds three mystery bags and some more cocoa but everybody that works in the lower floor "assumes" it's all the same crap and I laugh. How do I know this? This is how I met my wife years and years ago and I was the mixer guy Call me the rambler guy who won't shut up heck call me names all I care... I has very thick skin |
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Post by WP 257 on Jul 9, 2014 13:16:38 GMT -8
I'm trying to find the post a couple pages back that seemed to me, and apparently others, to imply that stalling was somehow better than engines continuing to dig in and spin their wheels...but a quick read back on my part did not find it.
I'd really like to try the Intermountain SD40-2, since there's an issue with the BLI ones that keeps me from buying them, but the reviews of the Intermountain unit have been so poor that I'm afraid to spend the money on it, too.
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Post by Judge Doom on Jul 9, 2014 15:38:33 GMT -8
Just because the case is the same doesn't mean the motor or armature is. Have you taken the motor out and disassemble it? Proto and athearn used some of the same parts but proto sourced a different supplier of motors that with a bearing change created a better motor than athearn.. No need to be done with this and get mad but if you can't present facts and only shows pics of an apparent fact then just leave it alone.. If someone new to trains comes here and asks questions about a product you present unbiased facts not this they use this junk motor Bla Bla unless you in fact own one But like most comments here its opinions and disgruntled hatred because it doesn't fit your tastes instead of another persons interest We all can be wrong and we all can be right but no need to get our diapers in a bunch because somebody questions something you disagree with.. It's part of life Geez, it's the same damn motor, what part of that don't you understand? Same factory, same looking motor, and 99.999999999999% likely the same guts inside it as the other models with that motor. How hard is that simple thing to believe? If it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck...it's a duck. Stop trying to justify using a poorer motor in a top of the line model by saying we should take it completely apart and dissect its guts under a microscope. Gimme a break. And good luck with that if you can get the Superman-pressed flywheels off without breaking the motor shaft to look inside the motor. I know, I've tried and destroyed an (IDENTICAL) Bowser motor doing that. The Athearn gold-can motors don't have an issue with lack of torque or pulling ability unless they're from a really bad batch. It's poor quality control where some can run like Katos and others like screaming Bachmann toy motors, if at all. Most fall somewhere in between. This has been documented by many in the past on this and other forums. The tolerances on the Protos are tighter: there is less brush play in the holders leading to less brush clicking as the motor spins, the bearings and motor shaft are smaller and probably made of a better-quality material so they don't run dry and squeal like some Athearns do. The smaller surface area on those spinning parts probably helps as well. And, the Proto flywheels used are much better balanced than the Athearns, resulting in less vibration and noise compared to a BB. I know, I've taken them apart and compared them to dissected Athearns, and I've tuned Athearns to run smoothly. You seem to be trying to justify your own purchase by putting others down who have purchased models with this motor in the past, and have experienced poorer performance, and have compared the models head-to-head with better offerings. Buy whatever you want, I don't care. That doesn't change the fact, as you like to call it, that Atlas changed motors from its traditional better-performing motor, and the fact that the new motor has poorer performance based on it being used in other products that many of which have been bought by others here, tested, and reported upon. |
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Post by stevef45 on Jul 9, 2014 23:16:17 GMT -8
Reading thru the posts, am I to understand that some people think it is a good thing that a motor would stall vs. cause the wheels to slip when under a load test? If modeling GE's, yes! thats not a fire, this is a fire! www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=326818&nseq=4lol |
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 10, 2014 6:24:03 GMT -8
Here is the video I made
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Post by grabbem88 on Jul 11, 2014 7:16:14 GMT -8
Just because the case is the same doesn't mean the motor or armature is. Have you taken the motor out and disassemble it? Proto and athearn used some of the same parts but proto sourced a different supplier of motors that with a bearing change created a better motor than athearn.. No need to be done with this and get mad but if you can't present facts and only shows pics of an apparent fact then just leave it alone.. If someone new to trains comes here and asks questions about a product you present unbiased facts not this they use this junk motor Bla Bla unless you in fact own one But like most comments here its opinions and disgruntled hatred because it doesn't fit your tastes instead of another persons interest We all can be wrong and we all can be right but no need to get our diapers in a bunch because somebody questions something you disagree with.. It's part of life Geez, it's the same damn motor, what part of that don't you understand? Same factory, same looking motor, and 99.999999999999% likely the same guts inside it as the other models with that motor. How hard is that simple thing to believe? If it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck...it's a duck. Stop trying to justify using a poorer motor in a top of the line model by saying we should take it completely apart and dissect its guts under a microscope. Gimme a break. And good luck with that if you can get the Superman-pressed flywheels off without breaking the motor shaft to look inside the motor. I know, I've tried and destroyed an (IDENTICAL) Bowser motor doing that. The Athearn gold-can motors don't have an issue with lack of torque or pulling ability unless they're from a really bad batch. It's poor quality control where some can run like Katos and others like screaming Bachmann toy motors, if at all. Most fall somewhere in between. This has been documented by many in the past on this and other forums. The tolerances on the Protos are tighter: there is less brush play in the holders leading to less brush clicking as the motor spins, the bearings and motor shaft are smaller and probably made of a better-quality material so they don't run dry and squeal like some Athearns do. The smaller surface area on those spinning parts probably helps as well. And, the Proto flywheels used are much better balanced than the Athearns, resulting in less vibration and noise compared to a BB. I know, I've taken them apart and compared them to dissected Athearns, and I've tuned Athearns to run smoothly. You seem to be trying to justify your own purchase by putting others down who have purchased models with this motor in the past, and have experienced poorer performance, and have compared the models head-to-head with better offerings. Buy whatever you want, I don't care. That doesn't change the fact, as you like to call it, that Atlas changed motors from its traditional better-performing motor, and the fact that the new motor has poorer performance based on it being used in other products that many of which have been bought by others here, tested, and reported upon. I called atlas today and talked with a few people I guess they are following this post apparently lol. Fact not a mabuchi motor Fact same person who builds there shells builds the motor in house Fact motor is a redesign with better insides False atlas is a bowser/intermountain motor like has been claimed |
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