Upgrading the MDC Roundhouse FMC 4700cf covered hopper

[fr8kar]

No matter, Mark. It's fixed now with the sound of switching cars.

[catt]

Just to post a pic in this thread here is the start of a TYCO revamp.Not to sure that .010" rod is the answer though. I was going to do the ladder rungs fr8kar style but the .010" is just to flimsy for me .

[edwardsutorik]

Nov 29, 2014 20:16:37 GMT -8 catt said:

Just to post a pic in this thread here is the start of a TYCO revamp.Not to sure that .010" rod is the answer though. I was going to do the ladder rungs fr8kar style but the .010" is just to flimsy for me .

Looks pretty decent. A little tweaking (no, no, not twerking) should bring it just right. Well, acceptable, anyway.

A little more practice will likely get it the first time.


Ed

[fr8kar]

Johnathan, maybe you could try 0.015" styrene rod instead. It's a little easier to work with but will still look pretty good. The 0.010" stuff is as close to scale as I could find in styrene. Anyway, I like what you've done so far. Keep it up!

[catt]

I will admit I like it.So I think I will put up with the frustration of working with the .010".It certainly is an improvement over the original,though I see some I need to redo because they are abit crooked.

[atsfan]

The Tyco roof walk looks about a foot thick
I remember these cars fondly though.

[catt]

The Athearn part is a direct replacement which means PLANO does a etched version.I'm not that ready to make that kind of money involvement though as I have a total of 10 Athearn/TYCO cars it will be pricey.

[fr8kar]

Nov 30, 2014 6:10:40 GMT -8 catt said:

I will admit I like it.So I think I will put up with the frustration of working with the .010".

That's it! You've been bitten.

It certainly is an improvement over the original,though I see some I need to redo because they are abit crooked.

And that's all you need to do. No reason to go crazy spending the next month doing these ladder rung replacements. Do them when you feel like it and if you mess up, come back to it later.

Look for the Plano roofwalks at train shows. There's always somebody selling them, along with other goodies like undecorated kits, because they didn't have the time or drive to actually do the work. I got several Genesis tank cars for $7 each because somebody didn't want to build and paint them. I got my Tangent kits for $20 each because somebody didn't want to build and paint them. All it takes is a little searching and you can find what you're looking for.

[catt]

I used to make up a shopping list to take to train shows.I have stopped doing that and just go to window shop and buy what appeals to me.There are certain things I will zero in on (being a multi-scaler DOES have it's perks

Actually this hopper detailing project is something I've thought about doing for a long time.Thanks for the push needed to get me going on it.

[markfj]

Catt, you’re options on replacing the roof walk are limited. You could try thinning the existing part with a file or sand paper. I did that with some luck on an old ECW covered hopper kit.

Too bad we can’t get Plano to give us a special “Atlas Rescue Forum” discount since we frequently mention (and praise) their products.   If you’re a member of a club, at least you and a couple buddies could combine orders to save a little on shipping.

 
Thanks, Mark

[catt]

As much as I like the looks of the .010" rod for the ladders and such I decided today to switch over to .015".That measures out to 1.25" in HO.Since I also model in N scale the .010" won't go to waste. In N scale it will size out at 1.5" which will still be a big improvement for my older hoppers.

[fr8kar]

Progress has slowed a bit on the FMC 4700s and the ACF 4600s, but it hasn't stopped. I'm just spending more time with the big ones than usual because of the holidays. Now that the holidays are over, hopefully the knot will begin to untie a bit and things can return to normal. I'm anxious to get back to modeling.

Anyway, here are some detail photos showing the upgrades I made to the stock MDC Roundhouse model's brake rigging. This is just a length of 0.030" x 0.030" styrene rod cut into bits and glued to make brackets that look like the upgraded Athearn model:




The brake lever is just a piece of 0.020" sheet cut to shape with some 0.030" hexagonal rod sliced into bolts glued in place. The pivot bracket for the brake lever is just more bits of sheet styrene cut to shape, roughly following what appears on the Athearn model:






Two of the same brackets added to the B end:



And since I messed up carving out the stirrups to thin them, I just decided to make some new steps using 0.019" flat wire using 0.012" round wire for the "bolt heads" that also serve as mounting pins glued into holes drilled in the carbody:



The little steps aren't hard to make, but if I'm going to do any more of them, I'll make a bending tool so they come out more uniform next time. I had trouble getting consistent bends when I was upgrading SD40-2 trucks until I made this:



I sure wish I'd done it sooner. Oh well, lesson learned on that one.

[nebrzephyr]

Jan 4, 2015 15:20:25 GMT -8 fr8kar said:

The little steps aren't hard to make, but if I'm going to do any more of them, I'll make a bending tool so they come out more uniform next time. I had trouble getting consistent bends when I was upgrading SD40-2 trucks until I made this:



I sure wish I'd done it sooner. Oh well, lesson learned on that one.

I made a similar jig but wasn't successful on the linear (horizontal) bends. Curious, do you do those freehand or have you incorporated those bends in the jig. It didn't seem obvious in the photo.

Thanks. Bob

[fr8kar]

Bob, it isn't obvious in that photo, but there is a little pocket and a shallow depth cut into another part of the tool that allows for those bends to be uniform. I took photos of the entire process here:

www.pbase.com/mecrharris/wire_bending

[nebrzephyr]

Jan 5, 2015 11:27:22 GMT -8 fr8kar said:

Bob, it isn't obvious in that photo, but there is a little pocket and a shallow depth cut into another part of the tool that allows for those bends to be uniform. I took photos of the entire process here:

www.pbase.com/mecrharris/wire_bending

Ryan, thanks. I think I'll make an attempt to dupe your design, if you don't mind. My jig only gets me the bends st the air reservoirs. Bob

[dstark]

Very nice work, Ryan!

If I may offer a constructive comment - the Gunderson 4692s (the cars with the the two 'missing' side posts) and early FMC 4700s had 24" wide troughes with no semi-circular extension at each end. The late FMC 4700s - i.e. Athearn/MDC model - have 20" wide troughes (actual hatch width slightly wider). For detailed cars, it's a nice detail to capture.

For reference:
BN (ex C&S) 458977 (Gunderson 4692)
BN 447766 (early FMC 4700)
BN 460857 (late FMC 4700)

There are a few other differences between these including the Apex running board on the 4692s as you discovered, degree of slope on the roof (flatter on the 4692 and early 4700), presence or absence of drain holes at the bottom of the side posts etc.

Doug Stark

[fr8kar]

Bob, feel free to copy or improve upon my bending tool - that's why I post that kind of stuff. I'm glad you found it useful.

Doug, thanks for all the good information, especially the nice roof shots! These models are all past the point where I can do anything about the roof slope, but it's good to know. Do you have any dimensions that would help me make drawings of these early cars?

I know it's going to be difficult to change the trough ends now that they are glued in place and now that the Plano walkways are on, but I'll take a crack at it. I don't have any spares, so cutting them lengthwise to fix the width is probably not in my future.

[catt]

Probably should have started my own thread on this,but since this one covers upgrading covered hoppers I just tacked on the end of this one.
My .015" Plastruct rod finally came in.I like it better than the .010" because it is easier for me to work with and still looks much better than the cast ladder rungs.I will post pictures once it actually looks like I have accomplished something.

[fr8kar]

I am looking forward to seeing your progress, Johnathan. I agree the 0.015" stuff is much easier to work with. It's about time for some warmer weather so I can get back to work on the last remaining 4700 (actually, it's a 4692 - thanks for that tidbit, Doug) and the 4600s I have under construction.

[Deleted]

Hello Doug and Ryan,

There are differences in the end cages too.
I have on my shelves an old MDC 4700 (undecorated) and I still hesitate between a 4692 and a 4700. So I follow Ryan's nice work with great attention !

Regards,
Pierre BARBE

Jan 6, 2015 11:57:55 GMT -8 dstark said:

Very nice work, Ryan!

If I may offer a constructive comment - the Gunderson 4692s (the cars with the the two 'missing' side posts) and early FMC 4700s had 24" wide troughes with no semi-circular extension at each end. The late FMC 4700s - i.e. Athearn/MDC model - have 20" wide troughes (actual hatch width slightly wider). For detailed cars, it's a nice detail to capture.

For reference:
BN (ex C&S) 458977 (Gunderson 4692)
BN 447766 (early FMC 4700)
BN 460857 (late FMC 4700)

There are a few other differences between these including the Apex running board on the 4692s as you discovered, degree of slope on the roof (flatter on the 4692 and early 4700), presence or absence of drain holes at the bottom of the side posts etc.

Doug Stark

[fr8kar]

Good catch, Pierre. I missed the end cage differences, but it's not too late for one of these models. I'll have to search for photos of the A end and so I can get busy cutting.

[catt]

The first two cars I am going to be working on (one is started) are actually TYCO's version of the PS-2.Yes I realize there are more than a few inaccuracies but they make great guinea pigs as they are usually rather cheap to buy.I actually have four of these to do but the other two are earning their keep on the club HO layout.

Anyway, cars 3-4-5-6 will be my FMCs,then the Athearns and once those are all done it will be time to start on my Center-Flos.This is probably boring if your reading it, but that's the schedule for HO for the year.

[fr8kar]

I have corrected the end cage vertical support locations on the last one of these I have under construction, BN 456438:






I also squared up the ends of the trough hatches, but I didn't splice in any extra width. I still have to add in all the ladder rungs, but that should go pretty quickly.

[catt]

Sort of before and after pics though of two different TYCO PS-2 hoppers.I do believe the work was worth it.This done with .015" Plastruct round rod (took forever to show up at the LHS). I srtill need to do some clean up work on the car.Anybody have any thoughts on adding another step to the stirrups?

[fr8kar]

It already looks way better, Johnathan. Keep it up!

[drolsen]

Jan 13, 2015 19:15:59 GMT -8 fr8kar said:

I also squared up the ends of the trough hatches, but I didn't splice in any extra width.

Ryan - I love seeing your continued work on these models. I don't have access to any of my models at the moment, but I'm curious if you've looked at the Intermountain PS 4750 roof hatches as a possible replacement. Since they're cheap and I have extras lying around, I thought they might be worth experimenting with if they needed to be cut / splice to get the correct length. I just had the feeling they might be a little wider from my memories of fiddling with them a long time ago. However, I think they would require some touch up work around the hinge and latch details. I'm betting that your modified MDC hatches are going to look good regardless of the width.

Dave

[fr8kar]

Thanks, Dave. That's a great idea about the IMRC hatches. I know I must have a few sets left over from the dozens of kits I've built over the years. I'll see what I can come up with and post back to the topic when I do. This is a no-brainer for the car under construction, but it may actually be the best solution for the already-painted C&S car. If I can completely replace the hatches with Intermountain parts, I'm a lot less concerned about doing surgery knowing the existing parts can be tossed out. When they absolutely must be preserved, I tend to be more tentative.

[Deleted]

Hello Ryan and Dave,

Not so evident to use IMRC parts for two reasons (I just checked) :
- IMRC hatches are slightly larger than the original MDC hatches
- the hatch pattern varied : original hatches were embossed, then smooth hatches appeared (when car was shopped, etc...). The IMRC embossed hatches don't have the correct pattern and cannot be used (IMHO).

Regards,
Pierre BARBE

[drolsen]

Pierre - I'm being selfish, in that I model the '90s when the smooth, fiberglass replacement hatches were used on almost every car (like in Doug's BN photos), I figured that the smooth Intermountain hatches may be easier to modify to work.

Dave

[catt]

Some TYCO updates,the B end is done.I still need to figure out a way to add another step to the stirrups.



Collateral damage pic.While removing the cast on brake line I managed to break out a chunk of the side sill (serves me right for getting in a hurry)pic also shows the angle I added to the center sill.I don't know if the prototype was built with them but these cars are MTS rebuilds.