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Post by onequiknova on Feb 2, 2015 19:23:19 GMT -8
Mr. Judge, threw out the votes for under $200.00,as that would be Clearance sales for a Genesis SD40-2,not "Got to Have It" sales. $200-$300.00---18 votes over $300.00----4 votes. so that is 22 votes to No's 47 votes. when/if a Genesis SD40-2 gets made,the true Sales picture will emerge. Edit -- what has been said here is that if a New SD40-2 isn't by Genesis Most wont be happy with it. re- the Complaints already concerning Bowser's GMDD SD40-2. Spikre What are you going on about? Similar non sound Genesis quality loco's are hovering around $200.00 MSRP for no noise. Read the first post, this poll is for non sound MSRP. Anyone who didn't vote no, voted yes for an SD40-2 at current retail prices.
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Post by atsfan on Feb 2, 2015 21:34:50 GMT -8
Those MBK prices didn't start that low (they were $224)... but are more of a reaction to the lack of demand of those lesser detailed units and a clearance price to attempt to get them out the door... They still are real so to compare Bachmann quality to Genesis prices is not apples to apples And $224 is still low compared to $300.
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Post by bnsf971 on Feb 3, 2015 4:05:18 GMT -8
MSRP=MSRP. Genesis MSRP=$299 Bachmann MSRP=$299
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 5:22:03 GMT -8
I am hoping Atlas gets back into the new engine game with one. Still not livid. I would not mind an Atlas SD40-2. I think Atlas could probably do a very nice model of one. They only need to address two things. One is to correct their hood width. It is slightly to wide. Second is to address the design of their fuel tanks. Stop with the N-Scale mentality of shallow fuel tanks on HO and O scale models. OH, a third thing. For crying out loud, STOP with the use of delrin for the side frames. There are people that still build models out here. Maybe enough to count on one hand, but please throw us a bone every now and then. My hopes though is for Athearn to either retool the SD40-2 in a Genesis series or at least revisit it to fix some items to improve it. My reason for an Athearn vote is because they use modeler friendly plastic for their side frames. So for me, Athearn all the way for a Genesis or revised RTR SD40-2. Quite honestly though. Currently Athearn is the only game in town for a "model builder" SD40-2 because of its use of modeler friendly plastic in all the parts that matter. Brian
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Post by markfj on Feb 3, 2015 6:03:23 GMT -8
They only need to address two things. One is to correct their hood width. It is slightly to wide. I’ve heard of that issue of the slightly wide hood mention before on this forum and on Diesel Detailer. It that problem found on of all their EMD models or just some? I have an SD-35 and GP38 and never really notice that the hoods were wide. On the issue of side frames, can the three axle side frames be replaced using “Banna” adaptors like the two axle frames? Thanks, Mark
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 6:52:05 GMT -8
They only need to address two things. One is to correct their hood width. It is slightly to wide. I’ve heard of that issue of the slightly wide hood mention before on this forum and on Diesel Detailer. It that problem found on of all their EMD models or just some? I have an SD-35 and GP38 and never really notice that the hoods were wide. On the issue of side frames, can the three axle side frames be replaced using “Banna” adaptors like the two axle frames? Thanks, Mark Mark, The Atlas GP38/40 suffer from the slightly to wide hood. It is naturally not noticeable on the models since all the parts are made to fit properly. I did not notice it until I built a hood from scratch and tried to use an Atlas DB hatch. Did not quite fit a scale width hood. First, there would be no need for side frame adapters if Atlas would have taken the time to tool a proper side frame. Now with that said, if Atlas were to produce an SD40-2 which I highly doubt they will. WAIT, I have to take that back. An SD40-2 would be right up Atlas's alley because one of the things that they look it when producing a new model is how many paint schemes would they be able to put on it and an SD40-2 has loads of paint schemes. Getting back to the side frames. Most likely Atlas would do a terrible job on the side frames so we would have to find a way to put Athearn side frames on. I know, I am already condemning a model that has not even been conceived by Atlas. But going by their track record only, most likely they would botch an HT-C side frame and cast it in delrin which means we would have to adapt the superior cast in styrene Athearn HT-C side frame. I do not see Atlas changing their truck design so most likely there would be a copper metal power pickup strip. Same as what Kato has. Since I have done this before and will need to do it again on my next couple MoPac SD40-2's, the way to adapt an Athearn HT-C side frame to a Kato gear tower is to clean off the back of the frame except for the brake rigging. Build new rectangular pins that will insert into the Kato gear tower. Next would be to sink the copper pickup strip into the back of the side frames. A bit more work involved, but basically that is it. So in short, no adaptor. THe only part that could be made and sold would be the new mounting pins. I just make my pins out of styrene because again, the superior Athearn HT-C side frames are made from styrene. Brian
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Post by atsfan on Feb 3, 2015 7:10:08 GMT -8
MSRP=MSRP. Genesis MSRP=$299 Bachmann MSRP=$299 Nobody pays MSRP for Bacnmann. Everyone knows that. To say the two units cost the same to the consumer is extremely misleading. But if you want to think otherwise ok with me.
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Post by Judge Doom on Feb 3, 2015 8:14:29 GMT -8
Mr. Judge, threw out the votes for under $200.00,as that would be Clearance sales for a Genesis SD40-2,not "Got to Have It" sales. $200-$300.00---18 votes over $300.00----4 votes. so that is 22 votes to No's 47 votes. when/if a Genesis SD40-2 gets made,the true Sales picture will emerge. Edit -- what has been said here is that if a New SD40-2 isn't by Genesis Most wont be happy with it. re- the Complaints already concerning Bowser's GMDD SD40-2. Spikre I said it once in reply to your exact same misconceptions, many people agree, and I'll say it again: atlasrescueforum.proboards.com/post/53615/thread
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 3, 2015 9:14:22 GMT -8
Y'all making my head hurt.
1. The F-unit field was a very crowded arena and Athearn together with Highliners produced nearly the perfect F-unit. The others are still in the market, including the old Athearn/Globe now dressed up in the RTR line.
2. The SD40-2 market is full of players right now - Athearn RTR, BLI, Kato, Bowser(GMD), Intermountain. I don't include Bochmann because their SD40-2 is downright ugly in execution. None of the above have done the U.S. EMD SD40-2 in a top end model. Everyone of the current crop has faults. No, I'm not throwing Bowser under the bus, because theirs is a GMD and NOT and EMD.
3. There is no real definitive SD40-2. There was no definitive F-unit when Athearn/Highliners began cranking out of F's and Athearn continues to make hay on their Highliners partnership.
There is room for a top level SD40-2. Somebody, some day will take the project, whether it is Athearn, Bowser or some other player its more than likely going to happen. If Bowser can crank out C430's, C415's and Athearn is doing SDP45's, CNW commuter GP's, etc., how can the SD40-2 still be left behind.
There is an old expression that says "build it, and they will come". I think the SD40-2 is that model.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 3, 2015 9:40:48 GMT -8
OH, a third thing. For crying out loud, STOP with the use of delrin for the side frames. There are people that still build models out here. Maybe enough to count on one hand, but please throw us a bone every now and then. My hopes though is for Athearn to either retool the SD40-2 in a Genesis series or at least revisit it to fix some items to improve it. My reason for an Athearn vote is because they use modeler friendly plastic for their side frames. So for me, Athearn all the way for a Genesis or revised RTR SD40-2. Quite honestly though. Currently Athearn is the only game in town for a "model builder" SD40-2 because of its use of modeler friendly plastic in all the parts that matter. Brian Its an RTR world baby. No need to toss bones because the dog is nearly dead.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 10:04:19 GMT -8
OH, a third thing. For crying out loud, STOP with the use of delrin for the side frames. There are people that still build models out here. Maybe enough to count on one hand, but please throw us a bone every now and then. My hopes though is for Athearn to either retool the SD40-2 in a Genesis series or at least revisit it to fix some items to improve it. My reason for an Athearn vote is because they use modeler friendly plastic for their side frames. So for me, Athearn all the way for a Genesis or revised RTR SD40-2. Quite honestly though. Currently Athearn is the only game in town for a "model builder" SD40-2 because of its use of modeler friendly plastic in all the parts that matter. Brian Its an RTR world baby. No need to toss bones because the dog is nearly dead. When that day comes, I will go to G scale and start designing my own models. larger scales are much easier to design in. Brian
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 3, 2015 10:38:53 GMT -8
Its an RTR world baby. No need to toss bones because the dog is nearly dead. When that day comes, I will go to G scale and start designing my own models. larger scales are much easier to design in. Brian Maybe I was premature in putting the old dog down.....that is good news! I just started a poll on who in the last 12 months has actually built and painted a piece of rolling stock. So far the results do show there are at least seven people that have painted, etc..
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Post by WP 257 on Feb 11, 2015 7:34:18 GMT -8
Ok, after all the discussion about SD40-2's, this Friday (payday), I'm ordering in an Intermountain Santa Fe SD40-2 (standard nose)--to try one (and because it appears their blue/yellow warbonnet paint colors are closer to correct than the Kato's that are out there).
I'm also buying at least one of the Bowser Canadian SD40-2's, just don't know which exact flavor yet...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 8:00:24 GMT -8
I am going to try my best to be civil here. Please NO. Please do not buy an IM model. It is truly a pile of crap. I won one with sound at the Cocoa Beach RPM meet and I cannot wait to do a review on it and then get it the hell out of my house. What a turd.
Brian
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 11, 2015 11:23:35 GMT -8
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 11:46:38 GMT -8
The greatest thing that Intermountain can do to improve their SD40-2 line is to recall all the ones they have sold and put them in a trash compactor. Then destroy the molds AND vow never to produce another locomotive.
The problem is, I have no idea where they could dispose of them. They are so bad they would pollute a trash dump and possibly have it closed down by the EPA.
Brian
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Post by bnsffan on Feb 11, 2015 12:31:47 GMT -8
So Brian, what is it about the IM SD40-2 that you don't like.
Respectfully, BNSF Fan
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Post by eh49 on Feb 11, 2015 12:49:41 GMT -8
So Brian, what is it about the IM SD40-2 that you don't like. Respectfully, BNSF Fan For you and others who put the IM unit down, why don't you start your own company and give us the perfect SD40-2 model?
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Post by scl1234 on Feb 11, 2015 12:52:20 GMT -8
So Brian, what is it about the IM SD40-2 that you don't like. Respectfully, BNSF Fan For you and others who put the IM unit down, why don't you start your own company and give us the perfect SD40-2 model? shill much?
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Post by atsfan on Feb 11, 2015 13:14:54 GMT -8
So Brian, what is it about the IM SD40-2 that you don't like. Respectfully, BNSF Fan Not Brian But these engines have the Pul Nun motor The radiator fans and grills are 1970 era tooling The cab looks way off Not sure about wiring or electronics as I have passed these all over as not worth the money
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 15:15:53 GMT -8
Eh49, if I had the money, I would. But I do not and I am not the one advertising state of the art tooling either. You want to see Model Railroad state of the art tooling, look at Rapido and Athearn Genesis. Heck, even Athearn non-Genesis is better than the IM SD40-2. But since Rapido has not produced an SD40-2, I cannot comment on their SD40-2 tooling. I know Athearn has its problems with assembly, grue brobs and shrinking hand rails. You cannot fault their tooling and respect to accuracy of the prototype though. Granted their are compromises and that is something we have to come to accept at times and I am not at all saying the Athearn SD40-2 is "perfect", but it is a FAR cry better than the IM turd and certainly a better starting point for a modeler. Now if you REALLY want to see "State of the art" tooling, then you have to go look at the military kits. The majority of those kits are truly "State of the art".
And eh49, if you like IM, that is just fine. I am stating my opinion on a forum that is designated for model railroad conversation. I do not see a lot of folks jabbering about modeling on this forum. Mostly about the quality of what is being offered. So I am offering my professional opinion. I use the word professional because I have built my share of models to know what is a good model and what is pure horse pucky. From a modelers point of view, the IM SD40-2 is pure horse pucky and not worth the time to even consider it. From a ready to runners point of view it is most likely just fine.
What is wrong with it. It is made by Intermountain. That should say enough. But I will get into some specifics and I am sure these will seem very trivial to a lot of you. But the issues are not limited to these few items I list here. The whole model just does nto have that strong look of an SD40-2. These are commanding locomotives. They need to look the part. The IM things falls way short of this. 1. The overall stance of the model is just not right. It does not have the heavy set on the rails look of an SD40-2. There is way to much light passing under the frame. 2. The upper portion of the step well is just lame. You should NOT see daylight of any kind over the top step. 3. Corrugated radiator version. They protrude to far out from the hood side. 4. Deck plate has no separations. One solid sheet. Definitely not right. 5. Truck side frames are thin and weak looking. To top it off, they are made from Delrin. 6. The exhaust hatch and the inertial filter hatch stand off way to much. There should be a very thin gap between the hood top and these parts.
It is not at all a "State of the art" model. Not in any way, shape or form. In my sleep I can design a better model. At the bench I can build a better model using the Athearn of Kato SD40-2. I am viewing this from a modelers point of view and I would NEVER consider wasting my money on a pile of crap like that as a starting point. Not even if the model was free.
Those of you that like the IM SD40-2. Great. run the wheels off of it and enjoy it to your hearts content. But do not tell me it is a great "model". It is a horrible "model"! In fact it is not even a model. It is no more than a representation of the outline of an SD40-2. Something akin to carving a piece of soap to look like an SD40-2. I know I am being harsh and I mean to be. I take my modeling very serious and I DO WANT the manufacturers to give us "State of the art" models. We do pay for something they are not giving us. These SD40-2's that IM is pushing on us as "State of the art" could not hold a candle to what is called state of the art today.
Athearn is still the BEST model to start with for "Model Building". The Kato model is a close second and only second because of the type of plastic they use and the truck side frames are rather weak. But this is the thing. You cannot even begin to use an IM SD40-2 as a starting point because the whole thing is just designed bad. At least with the Athearn and Kato you can build a VERY respectable model because most of it is VERY accurate. As a model builder, I build my models so I understand there are things that are not satisfactory for me and I will have to replace them. There are compromises I will have to make. I am looking for the ultimate SD40-2 so I do not have to make so many compromises or have to cut as much stuff off. The IM thing didn't even make it out of the gate.
Now the only way you can change my mind about this is build an IM SD40-2 to fine scale specifications, document it so we can see all the work involved. I have yet to see ANY of them displayed at an RPM meet as a respectable model. My judgement is when I get down and look at it from all angles, I say "I gotta have one". Hasn't happened yet with the IM thing and I doubt it ever will. When I go to these shows. I see Athearn and Kato models being used as the basis for the model being displayed.
Brian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2015 15:40:25 GMT -8
...I have yet to see ANY of them displayed at an RPM meet as a respectable model. My judgement is when I get down and look at it from all angles, I say "I gotta have one". Hasn't happened yet with the IM thing and I doubt it ever will. When I go to these shows. I see Athearn and Kato models being used as the basis for the model being displayed. Brian The big Western Prototype Modelers meet is March 28 in San Bernardino, BTW.
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Post by riogrande on Feb 11, 2015 18:14:10 GMT -8
I do not see a lot of folks jabbering about modeling on this forum. Brian Maybe you aren't looking in the right places but there seems to be a significant amount of it. Unfortunately sometimes it gets drowned out.
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 11, 2015 19:33:14 GMT -8
I do not see a lot of folks jabbering about modeling on this forum. Mostly about the quality of what is being offered. Brian I show my Tyco-licious modeling....you see my efforts and think of Tyco!
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Post by atsfan on Feb 11, 2015 19:44:36 GMT -8
I do not see a lot of folks jabbering about modeling on this forum. Mostly about the quality of what is being offered. Brian I show my Tyco-licious modeling....you see my efforts and think of Tyco! I love Tyco. I always equate it with fun.
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Post by carrman on Feb 11, 2015 20:21:10 GMT -8
So Brian, what is it about the IM SD40-2 that you don't like. Respectfully, BNSF Fan For you and others who put the IM unit down, why don't you start your own company and give us the perfect SD40-2 model? Battle cry of the good enougher. Dave
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Post by jaygee on Feb 12, 2015 6:44:21 GMT -8
ANY SD40-2 upgrade is going to require wire railings and separate stanchions ...be they metal or plastic. Can ya dig it? I knew you could !
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Post by Great-Northern-Willmar Div on Feb 12, 2015 6:54:35 GMT -8
ANY SD40-2 upgrade is going to require wire railings and separate stanchions ...be they metal or plastic. Can ya dig it? I knew you could ! You mean like this?
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Post by markfj on Feb 12, 2015 9:40:42 GMT -8
I am going to try my best to be civil here. Please NO. Please do not buy an IM model. It is truly a pile of crap. I one with sound at the Cocoa Beach RPM meet and I cannot wait to do a review on it and then get it the hell out of my house. What a turd. Brian "snip" Grease anyone? Oh now that’s just ridiculous! The bigger the blob the better the job? I thought the days of excess lubrication were behind us (no pun intended).
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Post by Spikre on Feb 12, 2015 11:09:12 GMT -8
so NO has WON this Poll !! what don't You Understand about NO Atsffan ?? Spikre
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